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The Boston Marathon Bombing.

post #1 of 255
Thread Starter 

A terrible terrorist attack in Boston today leaves many wounded and some dead. 

 

At this stage we don't know who did it, but with the huge number of thwarted terrorist attacks by extremist Muslims the chances are that they did this too. Some people don't read much and therefore think that it's very rare that these acts of terrorism are attempted by extremist Muslims. Those people are very wrong indeed, and I will post just how wrong once I have compiled as complete a list as I can.

 

This is a very sad day, and I urge people to look at what the facts are in regards to attempted and successful terrorist attacks so that they can be further reduced. 

 

As yet, we don't know who did this, but please use this thread to inform yourself, if you are not already aware, of the high numbers of Muslim terrorist attacks that have been thwarted. Terrorism is very real and it doesn't help peaceful Muslims in the US or the UK, to not know the facts, and act accordingly, so they can be stopped.

 

My thoughts and prayers go out to all those impacted.

 

Here's some of the UK's-

 

This in the Telegraph yesterday-

 

 

"Four British jihadists planned to bomb a Territorial Army base by driving a remote controlled car packed with explosives under its gate."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9994940/Jihadists-planned-to-attack-Luton-TA-base-using-remote-controlled-car-packed-with-explosives.html

 

Some UK terrorism (includes some wrongly accused) from Wikipedia-

 

  • 2003 5 January: Wood Green ricin plot, where police arrested six Algerian men accused of manufacturing ricin to use for a poison attack on the London underground. No poison was found,[26][27] and all men were acquitted of all terror charges, except for Kamel Bourgass who stabbed four police officers during his arrest in Manchester several days later. He was convicted of the murder of the officer he killed (the others he stabbed survived). He was also convicted of plotting to poison members of the public with ricin and other poisons. Two of the suspects in the plot were subsequently convicted of possessing false passports.[28]
  • 2003 October: Andrew Rowe arrested in Dover after being detained as he entered the Channel Tunnel in France.[29]Convicted as a "global terrorist" and sentenced to 15 years in prison on 23 September 2005 on the basis of traces of explosives on a pair of socks and a code translation book.[30]
  • 2004 30 March: Seven men arrested in West Sussex in possession of 600 kg of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, as part of Operation Crevice.
  • 2004 3 August: Fourteen men arrested, but only eight charged in relation to the 2004 Financial buildings plotfollowing the leak of the identity of an Al-Qaeda double-agent. The men possessed detailed plans for attacking financial buildings in the US, but no actual bomb-making equipment. Their leader, Dhiren Barot, pleaded guilty at his trial on 12 October 2006, and was imprisoned for life.
  • 2004 24 September: Four men arrested in the Holiday Inn in Brent Cross trying to buy red mercury, a mythical substance which could purportedly be used to construct a nuclear bomb, from a newspaper reporter.[31] One man was released three days later,[32] while the other three were cleared at their trial on 25 July 2006,[33] during which the jury was told that "whether red mercury does or does not exist is irrelevant".[34]
  • 2005 22 July: The Metropolitan Police tracked Jean Charles de Menezes onto a train and shot him seven times in the head at close range, because they thought he was a suicide bomber.
  • 2005 28 July: David Mery arrested at Southwark tube station on suspicion of terrorism for wearing a jacket "too warm for the season" and carrying a bulky rucksack. All charges were dropped on 31 August.[35] It took four more years for the police to apologise for the "unlawful arrest, detention and search of [his] home".[36]
  • 2005 28 September: Walter Wolfgang, who had been ejected from the Labour Party Conference, was briefly held under Terrorism Act 2000 powers when he attempted to go back in.
  • 2005 22 December: Abu Bakr Mansha, described by his barrister as an "utter incompetent", was accused of planning to murder a British soldier who had served in the Iraq War, and convicted under the Terrorism Act for possessing a document that was "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism". He was sentenced to 6 years.
  • 2006 2 June: The 2 June 2006 Forest Gate raid (on a house in Forest Gate) saw the arrest of two suspects, one who was shot in the shoulder, on charges of conspiring to release a chemical weapon in the form of suicide vest. The suspects were cleared of suspicion and released days later.
  • 2006 10 August: The 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot to blow up 10 planes flying from Heathrow saw the arrest of 24 people from their homes in Britain, chaos at the airports as security measures were put in place and numerous high-level statements from US and UK officials. 8 people were put on trial, and 3 found guilty of conspiracy to murder. It was shown at their trial how bottles of liquid could be made into effective bombs. Since this incident, carriage of liquids in hand luggage on aircraft has been restricted to very small amounts. Rashid Rauf, suspected to have been the link between the UK plotters and Pakistan, escaped to Pakistan where he was arrested, but escaped again on his way to an extradition hearing. It was reported that he was killed in a US airstrike in North Waziristan in November 2008 [6].
  • 2006 23 August: The 2006 Cheetham Hill terrorism arrests, where four men were arrested in the Manchester vicinity over the course of a month, and charged with financing terrorism.
  • 2006 1 September: The Jameah Islameah School in Sussex was cordoned off for over three weeks and searched by a hundred police officers. Twelve men were arrested as part of the operation as they ate in a Chinese restaurant in London.
  • 2007 1 November: Police searching for indecent images of children arrested British People's Party local organiser Martyn Gilleard in GooleEast Riding of Yorkshire under the Terrorism Act, over explosives found in his home. He was subsequently charged with possession of material for terrorist purposes and collection of information useful to a terrorist, and also pleaded guilty to possessing 39,000 indecent images. He was jailed for 16 years.[37][38][38][39][40]
  • 2008 14 May: The Nottingham Two were arrested and detained for six days under the Terrorism Act 2000. Apostgraduate student had downloaded a 1,500-page English translation of an Al-Qaeda document from the United States Department of Justice website for his PhD research on militant Islam. He sent it to a friend in the Modern Language department for printing. Both were cleared of terrorism-related offences, but the friend was immediately re-arrested on immigration grounds.[41][42][43][44]
  • 2008 14 September: Oxford graduate Stephen Clarke arrested after someone thought they saw him taking a photograph of a sealed man-hole cover outside the central public library in Manchester. He was arrested under section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000, held for 36 hours while his house and computer were searched, and then released without charge. No photographs of man-hole covers were found.[45]
  • 2009 13 February: 9 men arrested on the M65 motorway under section 40 of the Terrorism Act 2000. 6 were kept hand-cuffed in the back of a van for seven hours. The remaining 3 were detained for six days. No one was charged.[7]
  • On 19 September 2011 West Midlands Police arrested a woman who lived in the Alum Rock area of Birmingham. Salma Kabal, 22, appeared in court on 16 November 2011 accused of failing to inform police that her husband, Ashik Ali, planned to kill himself. The official charge was that she “knew or believed might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of another person for an offence involving the commission, preparation or instigation of an act of terrorism".[46]
  • On 15 November 2011 West Midlands Counter Terrorism Unit arrested four people at their homes who were fromSparkhill Birmingham, on suspicion of conducting terrorist offences. The four men appeared in court in WestminsterLondon on 19 November 2011 charged with terrorism offences. They were named as Khobaib Hussain, Ishaaq Hussain and Shahid Kasam Khan, all 19, and Naweed Mahmood Ali, 24. They were charged with fundraising for terrorist purposes and for travelling to Pakistan for terrorist training.[47]
  • 2012 28 June: The two men, aged 18 and 32, were arrested at separate residential addresses in east London, by officers from the Metropolitan Police Counter-Terrorism Command, at 7am on Thursday. It was believed the men were involved in a bomb plot concerning the London 2012 Summer Olympic Games. A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "At approximately 07:00 hrs today, Thursday June 28, officers from the counter-terrorism command arrested two men under the Terrorism Act 2000 on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism. The men were arrested at separate residential addresses in east London. Both addresses are currently being searched under the Terrorism Act 2000". [8]

More here- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

 

Some US terrorism from Wikipedia-

 

 

Aftermath of the September 11 attacks

~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_extremism_in_the_United_States#Violent_Islamic_extremism

 

50 Terrorist Plots Foiled Since 9/11

 

 

 

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/04/fifty-terror-plots-foiled-since-9-11-the-homegrown-threat-and-the-long-war-on-terrorism

 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 4/15/13 at 4:22pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #2 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

At this stage we don't know who did it, but with the huge number of thwarted terrorist attacks by extremist Muslims the chances are that they did this too. Some people don't read much and therefore think that it's very rare that these acts of terrorism are attempted by extremist Muslims. Those people are very wrong indeed, and I will post just how wrong once I have compiled as complete a list as I can.

 

Domestic terrorist incidents far outnumber Muslim extremist attacks in the US. I'm sure several Muslim extremist groups will claim responsible though.

post #3 of 255

Lots of extraneous information there Hands. Considering there's no election coming up I'll assume an internet video isn't to blame. At this point in time what difference does it make anyway? The system worked!  

post #4 of 255
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

 

Domestic terrorist incidents far outnumber Muslim extremist attacks in the US. I'm sure several Muslim extremist groups will claim responsible though.. Here where I am in the UK there have been endless stories of major foiled Muslim terrorist attacks."Between 1993 and 2001, the major attacks or attempts against US interests stemmed from militant Islamic jihad except for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.[102] In 2001 nearly 3,000 people were killed in the massive September 11 attacks organised by al-Qaeda and largely perpetrated by Saudi nationals, sparking the War on Terror. Former CIA Director Michael Hayden considers homegrown terrorism to be the most dangerous threat and concern faced by American citizens today.[103] As of July 2011, there have been 51 homegrown jihadist plots or attacks in the United States since the September 11 attacks.[104]"

Remember this one?-

 

"British suicide bombers were within days of blowing up 12 passenger jets above five US cities in an unprecedented terrorist attack designed to commit "mass murder on an unimaginable scale", counterterrorism sources claimed last night.

 

Anti-terrorist agents said they had uncovered the plot from surveillance of a group of young British Muslims, which began nearly a year ago and was on a scale never before undertaken.

US and British counterterrorism officials claimed the men, the majority British Muslims of Pakistani descent, were going to disguise liquid explosive as bottles of soft drink and carry them in their hand luggage on to US-bound planes leaving British airports.

When the jets were in midair over American cities, they planned to combine the explosives and detonate them using an electric charge from an iPod, the security services believe. BA flights were among the targets. US officials said the bombers had been seeking to hit New York, Washington, San Francisco, Boston and Los Angeles. Other airlines targeted were thought to be United, American and Continental.

Loss of life might have surpassed the 2,700 killed in the attack on the twin towers in New York five years ago. "This was our 9/11," a British security source said."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/aug/11/politics.usa1

 

These kinds of major attacks are commonplace. US domestic terrorism, which obviously includes those committed by Muslims too, is bad and involves a lot of groups, but that should in no way should make people complacent about homegrown extremist Muslims who want to cause mass death and fear on a scale that we can barely imagine.

This in Wikipedia too-

Between 1993 and 2001, the major attacks or attempts against US interests stemmed from militant Islamic jihad except for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.[102] In 2001 nearly 3,000 people were killed in the massive September 11 attacks organised by al-Qaeda and largely perpetrated by Saudi nationals, sparking the War on Terror. Former CIA Director Michael Hayden considers homegrown terrorism to be the most dangerous threat and concern faced by American citizens today.[103] As of July 2011, there have been 51 homegrown jihadist plots or attacks in the United States since the September 11 attacks.[104]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#United_States

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #5 of 255

My thoughts are with everyone affected by this incident.

 

The news conference was just held.  The FBI said it was a "potential terrorist investigation"; I have seen comments widely about how Obama hadn't used that word; auto-mail I get from CNN has said "terror"... until the most recent one following the news conference...  the FBI isn't using the word yet.

 

The first question to the mayor was basically, "is this a false flag blah blahblah" and the same clown could be heard at the end yelling.  

 

Saw a comment somewhere by some guy who said he had been uncertain but now he is sure:  he is signing up for the military.  Before anybody has any clue as to the perpetrators. Why doesn't the guy join the police department or EMS?

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #6 of 255
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Lots of extraneous information there Hands. Considering there's no election coming up I'll assume an internet video isn't to blame. At this point in time what difference does it make anyway? The system worked!  

There have been far more incidents than I've currently posted and there aren't that many extraneous one's I've posted. 

 

There'll never be a system that can work all the time. The least we should be prepared to do is try though.

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #7 of 255

Is this all you do all day just post this information?
 

post #8 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

My thoughts are with everyone affected by this incident.

 

The news conference was just held.  The FBI said it was a "potential terrorist investigation";

 

What does that even mean?

post #9 of 255
Thread Starter 

These men were all found guilty-

 

"Up to eight suicide bombers carrying backpacks rammed with explosives and armed with guns were to carry out a horrifying blend of the 7/7 and Mumbai atrocities.

The jihadi gang planned to walk in to crowded, public places shooting indiscriminately before simultaneously detonating their terrible homemade payloads killing hundreds on their wake.

 

Naseer was secretly recorded at one stage talking of: "Seven or eight in different places with timers on at the same time, boom boom boom." and that it will be revenge for the Danish cartoons mocking the prophet Mohammed.

His deputy, Irfan Khalid, 27, talked about "revenge for everything, another 9/11" and "It's the four suicide bombers driving around ready to take on England."

Khalid said: "This is going to shake them all, the kufar, that go to the pub and that (in mocking English accent) 'they've hit us in our own country, my god they hit us'".

He described turning a Birmingham road in to a “little war zone”."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9873855/Hundreds-would-have-died-in-attack-plotted-by-Islamic-fanatics.html

 

Guilty verdict- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9877193/Suicide-bomb-gang-guilty-of-plotting-worst-ever-terror-attack-in-Britain.html

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

Reply
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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post #10 of 255

This video - and interview with Boston marathoner Ali Stevenson, University of Mobile cross country coach  - is worth watching. There was a security drill going on at the time of the bomb attacks, which appeared to mirror what happened. A parallel thing happened in the London bombing of 7/7.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #11 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

This video - and interview with Boston marathoner Ali Stevenson, University of Mobile cross country coach  - is worth watching. There was a security drill going on at the time of the bomb attacks, which appeared to mirror what happened. A parallel thing happened in the London bombing of 7/7.

 

Sammi, this is precisely why people think you are off the rails on this stuff.

 

We know that extra security has been added to these types of events lately, so bomb sniffing dogs and rooftop spotters are not out of place here. In addition, if there was any advance warning to security services, it would account for the extra level of security that wouldn't be disclosed to the public.

 

You have posted continuous evidence of extra security at the race and are deliberately mislabeling it as a "security drill".

 

Telling the public it is a training exercise to calm nerves is not the same as it really being one.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #12 of 255

Except that the Boston Globe tweeted at least two times before the tragedy that police were PLANNING a security drill. That throws your explanation in the toilet, Frank.

post #13 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

Sammi, this is precisely why people think you are off the rails on this stuff.

 

We know that extra security has been added to these types of events lately, so bomb sniffing dogs and rooftop spotters are not out of place here. In addition, if there was any advance warning to security services, it would account for the extra level of security that wouldn't be disclosed to the public.

 

You have posted continuous evidence of extra security at the race and are deliberately mislabeling it as a "security drill".

 

Telling the public it is a training exercise to calm nerves is not the same as it really being one.

 

Frank, did you actually watch those two videos I linked to? In the London case, what are the chances of a terror attack occurring, allegedly done by a group of young Muslim lads happening which is identical in every respect to a *supposedly* unrelated counterterrorism drill conducted by a private security firm under contract to the UK Government? Think about the mathematical odds: This drill was being carried out in and near the exact same Underground rail stations where the bombs went off (the other 267 rail stations in the London Underground network were unaffected) in a 1000 square mile city of 8 million people, on exactly the same day, at exactly the same time that the bombs went off, especially considering that the suspects (patsies?) were a group of kids from a distant part of the country, who, according to the official explanation traveled >100 miles that same morning on a train that had been canceled, according to the rail company. (!)

 

Just another neat little "Co-inkie Dinkie" yes? The UK government's story appears as tall as the odds are long.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #14 of 255

I'm curious about the various folks alleging false flag operations. Are we to believe that the war mongers in this instance are all Democrats? This is a Democratic state with a Democratic mayor during the second term of a Democratic president.

 

What agenda are they pushing under this false flag per the parties alleging it here in the thread? Is it about gun control? Immigration? Help me understand the allegations better.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #15 of 255

I find it fascinating that the people who are most worried about false flags are the ones who continually vote to make government bigger.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #16 of 255

Eyewitness claims a "drill" was underway at the time:

 

Quote:
an on-the-record interview with Alastair Stevenson, the University of Alabama cross country track coach who heard law enforcement telling the crowd, "It's just a drill" immediately after the explosions.

 

Quote:
"They kept making announcements on the loud speaker that it was just a drill and there was nothing to worry about. It seemed like there was some sort of threat, but they kept telling us it was just a drill," he was quoted as saying by Local15TV.com.

 

Quote:
"At the start at the event, at the Athlete's Village, there were people on the roof looking down onto the Village at the start. There were dogs with their handlers going around sniffing for explosives, and we were told on a loud announcement that we shouldn't be concerned and that it was just a drill. And maybe it was just a drill, but I've never seen anything like that -- not at any marathon that I've ever been to. You know, that just concerned me that that's the only race that I've seen in my life where they had dogs sniffing for explosions, and that's the only place where there had been explosions."

 

Not sure I buy the deliberate "false flag" angle. But possibly a major ****-up?

 

So perhaps instead of intelligent, well-planned, well-coordinated conspiracy intended to exploit people's fear, maybe a stupid, incompetent, poorly timed mistake that can be used to exploit people's fear?


Edited by MJ1970 - 4/17/13 at 12:32pm

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #17 of 255

I agree with MJ on this one, according to the conspiracy theories that I've seen online, and the evidence they claim to support their theories. Someone screwed up terribly.

post #18 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm curious about the various folks alleging false flag operations. Are we to believe that the war mongers in this instance are all Democrats? This is a Democratic state with a Democratic mayor during the second term of a Democratic president.

 

What agenda are they pushing under this false flag per the parties alleging it here in the thread? Is it about gun control? Immigration? Help me understand the allegations better.


Come on, Trumpy, we are all well aware that 95% of the Democrats in office are conservatives when it comes to war and terrorism, Obama being the worst offender. But with the exception of Ron Paul, who is wacko in oh so many other ways, it's not like there's a single Republican who is apt to be any better in this regard, is there?

post #19 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I agree with MJ on this one, according to the conspiracy theories that I've seen online, and the evidence they claim to support their theories. Someone screwed up terribly.

If this is a screw up, then it would be the most criminally negligent possible. WTF was law enforcement doing, conducting a drill involving real live bombs in the first place, in an area where thousands of people were assembled, in which two, perhaps three bombs exploded?

 

Whether this is a "bona fide" (for want of a better phrase) terrorist attack by a group or lone wolf, a false flag operation, or just one big monumental foul-up, one thing is abundantly apparent: there was a huge security operation involved in the 2013 Boston Marathon - including private security contractors, hundreds of National Guard troops and the whole are was crawling with police. Their efforts proved utterly useless, and showed us that bombing a 'soft target' like this (think of all the other potential soft targets available in any city, USA) is easy and straightforward regardless of how much security and surveillance is in place.

 

If this was a screw up (or a false flag), then we the public are probably never going to know any better. Those who messed up will close ranks and protect each other and the agencies involved; The fox investigating the henhouse.


Edited by sammi jo - 4/17/13 at 2:32pm
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #20 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

...Ron Paul, who is wacko in oh so many other ways...

 

1rolleyes.gif

 

How nice.

 

You can't just have honest disagreement over things can you? It must be that those those who hold starkly different views and positions must be "wacko" (to use only the most polite name you've called those you disagree with.) Is this due to some self-esteem or other inadequacy issues you're struggling with in which you must make those who disagree with you and have different views than yours, to be crazy or stupid?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #21 of 255
Ron Paul is a creationist. Ergo, wacko in a particular way. That's just one example. There are many others. The key, though, is that it's not just that Ron Paul has a difference in opinion, or even that it is a stark difference. It's that he's absolutely, utterly WRONG in the face of MOUNTAINS of evidence. That's what makes creationists wackos.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #22 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I agree with MJ on this one, according to the conspiracy theories that I've seen online, and the evidence they claim to support their theories. Someone screwed up terribly.
If this is a screw up, then it would be the most criminally negligent possible. WTF was law enforcement doing, conducting a drill involving real live bombs in the first place, in an area where thousands of people were assembled, in which two, perhaps three bombs exploded?

Whether this is a "bona fide" (for want of a better phrase) terrorist attack by a group or lone wolf, a false flag operation, or just one big monumental foul-up, one thing is abundantly apparent: there was a huge security operation involved in the 2013 Boston Marathon - including private security contractors, hundreds of National Guard troops and the whole are was crawling with police. Their efforts proved utterly useless, and showed us that bombing a 'soft target' like this (think of all the other potential soft targets available in any city, USA) is easy and straightforward regardless of how much security and surveillance is in place.

If this was a screw up, then we the public are probably never going to know any better. Those who messed up will close ranks and protect each other and the agencies involved; The fox investigating the henhouse.

Drills are not performed with live devices.
post #23 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Eyewitness claims a "drill" was underway at the time:

 

 

 

 

Not sure I buy the deliberate "false flag" angle. But possibly a major ****-up?

 

So perhaps instead of intelligent, well-planned, well-coordinated conspiracy intended to exploit people's fear, maybe a stupid, incompetent, poorly timed mistake that can be used to exploit people's fear?

The end result, in either case, is the same: Exploitation of peoples' fear.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #24 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Drills are not performed with live devices.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't think so. A smoke bomb perhaps. Something the simulated a bomb perhaps.

 

Still, it will be interesting to see if anything comes of these, so far unconfirmed, bits about someone claiming someone saying it's all just a drill and newspapers tweeting about fake bombs (before the event) when a real bomb goes off.

 

Could the "it's just a drill" bit be all about trying to calm the (sheep) people?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #25 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


Drills are not performed with live devices.

 

One would hope. Are you assuming that this was not a screw up? The possibility that this was an attack piggybacking on top of a drill, is not out of the question. The London 7/7 attack was exactly that.

 

We do know there was a drill happening, and we do know there was a multiple terrorist attack that coincided with the drill, and law enforcement was even under the impression, in the first seconds, that it was part of the drill, according to witnesses who heard such.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #26 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Drills are not performed with live devices.

Yeah, I wouldn't think so. A smoke bomb perhaps. Something the simulated a bomb perhaps.

Still, it will be interesting to see if anything comes of these, so far unconfirmed, bits about someone claiming someone saying it's all just a drill and newspapers tweeting about fake bombs (before the event) when a real bomb goes off.

Could the "it's just a drill" bit be all about trying to calm the (sheep) people?

I could believe that it might have been a misinformed or ill-judged attempt to prevent panic, and it is even possible that there was a drill since an event like that is a good chance to test the system, but a drill would never include any device that would even simulate a bomb. Imagine the lawsuits if someone is injured or killed in the resulting panic.
post #27 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

 

One would hope. Are you assuming that this was not a screw up? The possibility that this was an attack piggybacking on top of a drill, is not out of the question. The London 7/7 attack was exactly that.

 

We do know there was a drill happening, and we do know there was a multiple terrorist attack that coincided with the drill, and law enforcement was even under the impression, in the first seconds, that it was part of the drill, according to witnesses who heard such.

 

That explanation would make the most sense, in the Occam's Razor sense of things, that aligns with the claims we've heard thus far (people saying "it's just a drill" and newspapers pre-tweeting "controlled explosions" etc.)

 

That's being the case though, it seems someone wanting to do a real bomb attack would have had to know about the drill or it's all one big fucking coincidence.

 

Perhaps we'll get some more confirmation of these early claims.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Drills are not performed with live devices.

One would hope. Are you assuming that this was not a screw up? The possibility that this was an attack piggybacking on top of a drill, is not out of the question. The London 7/7 attack was exactly that.

We do know there was a drill happening, and we do know there was a multiple terrorist attack that coincided with the drill, and law enforcement was even under the impression, in the first seconds, that it was part of the drill, according to witnesses who heard such.

That's possible, and the resulting confusion unsurprising.
post #29 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I could believe that it might have been a misinformed or ill-judged attempt to prevent panic, and it is even possible that there was a drill since an event like that is a good chance to test the system, but a drill would never include any device that would even simulate a bomb. Imagine the lawsuits if someone is injured or killed in the resulting panic.

 

Again, I would assume the same also. But, let's assume the tweet is correct and valid and accurate. What's that? Someone tweeting what a bomber (posing as an official) told him was going to happen?

 

So far some weird stuff.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #30 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

One would hope. Are you assuming that this was not a screw up? The possibility that this was an attack piggybacking on top of a drill, is not out of the question. The London 7/7 attack was exactly that.

We do know there was a drill happening, and we do know there was a multiple terrorist attack that coincided with the drill, and law enforcement was even under the impression, in the first seconds, that it was part of the drill, according to witnesses who heard such.

That explanation would make the most sense, in the Occam's Razor sense of things, that aligns with the claims we've heard thus far (people saying "it's just a drill" and newspapers pre-tweeting "controlled explosions" etc.)

That's being the case though, it seems someone wanting to do a real bomb attack would have had to know about the drill or it's all one big fucking coincidence.

Perhaps we'll get some more confirmation of these early claims.

Since the attack did not require a drill to be effective, and the drill (if there was one) did not change the outcome, it seems unlikely that an attacker would plan on that basis. In fact the existence of a drill would, if anything, increase the likelihood of detection and interdiction, so one might expect an attacker to avoid that situation.
post #31 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

I could believe that it might have been a misinformed or ill-judged attempt to prevent panic, and it is even possible that there was a drill since an event like that is a good chance to test the system, but a drill would never include any device that would even simulate a bomb. Imagine the lawsuits if someone is injured or killed in the resulting panic.

Again, I would assume the same also. But, let's assume the tweet is correct and valid and accurate. What's that? Someone tweeting what a bomber (posing as an official) told him was going to happen?

So far some weird stuff.

So I'm a bit behind on the news. Was there definitely a drill, or is this still unconfirmed?
post #32 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post


Since the attack did not require a drill to be effective, and the drill (if there was one) did not change the outcome, it seems unlikely that an attacker would plan on that basis. In fact the existence of a drill would, if anything, increase the likelihood of detection and interdiction, so one might expect an attacker to avoid that situation.

 

Mostly agreed. Coincidence, if that's what we're seeing, seems odd though.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

So I'm a bit behind on the news. Was there definitely a drill, or is this still unconfirmed?

 

I've read a couple of things where some folks have said that immediately after the explosion law enforcement folks were saying "it's just a drill" and even PA announcements to this effect.

 

And early reports also mention a Boston news reporter tweeting, before the event, about FBI (or someone) doing a "controlled explosion" somewhere.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #34 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Since the attack did not require a drill to be effective, and the drill (if there was one) did not change the outcome, it seems unlikely that an attacker would plan on that basis. In fact the existence of a drill would, if anything, increase the likelihood of detection and interdiction, so one might expect an attacker to avoid that situation.

Mostly agreed. Coincidence, if that's what we're seeing, seems odd though.

Yes, except that security drills are really quite common, and mostly go unnoticed. It's not that unlikely for an incident like this to coincide with a drill at a major event.
post #35 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm curious about the various folks alleging false flag operations. Are we to believe that the war mongers in this instance are all Democrats? This is a Democratic state with a Democratic mayor during the second term of a Democratic president.

 

What agenda are they pushing under this false flag per the parties alleging it here in the thread? Is it about gun control? Immigration? Help me understand the allegations better.


Come on, Trumpy, we are all well aware that 95% of the Democrats in office are conservatives when it comes to war and terrorism, Obama being the worst offender. But with the exception of Ron Paul, who is wacko in oh so many other ways, it's not like there's a single Republican who is apt to be any better in this regard, is there?

 

 

I don't believe that claiming the Republicans would have also conducted a false flag operation if they had the levers of power and that all of them are terrible people really explains to me or anyone else why this false flag operation would be put forward by Democrats to panic someone into doing what they want or to distract from something they want as well.

 

I asked expressly what the "want" happens to be. What is the agenda here?

 

I'll give you half a star for at least attempting an answer though tonton, Sam, BR and the others just ignore the request and repeat themselves often.

 

That said, I've got to grab the teachable moment for BR.

 

BR, tonton's response is the Tu quoque you've been looking for!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm curious about the various folks alleging false flag operations. Are we to believe that the war mongers in this instance are all Democrats? This is a Democratic state with a Democratic mayor during the second term of a Democratic president.

 

What agenda are they pushing under this false flag per the parties alleging it here in the thread? Is it about gun control? Immigration? Help me understand the allegations better.

 

The only (generally disseminated) allegations of false flag operations I'm aware of are coming from Alex Jones, who is claiming that it's all a plot to go after the Tea Party.  Am I missing something?   If you're just talking about the people posting here, I have no idea.

post #37 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

So I'm a bit behind on the news. Was there definitely a drill, or is this still unconfirmed?

I've read a couple of things where some folks have said that immediately after the explosion law enforcement folks were saying "it's just a drill" and even PA announcements to this effect.

And early reports also mention a Boston news reporter tweeting, before the event, about FBI (or someone) doing a "controlled explosion" somewhere.

The announcements may just represent confusion. The tweet makes little sense, since no one does any kind of practice explosion, even a controlled one, in a public setting. In any case, from the set of all tweets one can probably find a tweet to support any version of events.
post #38 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Yes, except that security drills are really quite common, and mostly go unnoticed. It's not that unlikely for an incident like this to coincide with a drill at a major event.

 

I'll accept your claim about the frequency of security drills as true. Additionally one would generally expect higher security presence at this type of event not to mention it being a suitable terror target (though, frankly, a shopping mall or some other similar place would seems like a much softer and more terrifying target.) Anyway, if all of this is true (including the claims of people saying "it's just a drill"), then we (perhaps) have some ignorant law enforcement morons not knowing what you claim to know: that they'd never even use a bomb simulation in a drill.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 255
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Yes, except that security drills are really quite common, and mostly go unnoticed. It's not that unlikely for an incident like this to coincide with a drill at a major event.

I'll accept your claim about the frequency of security drills as true. Additionally one would generally expect higher security presence at this type of event not to mention it being a suitable terror target (though, frankly, a shopping mall or some other similar place would seems like a much softer and more terrifying target.) Anyway, if all of this is true (including the claims of people saying "it's just a drill"), then we (perhaps) have some ignorant law enforcement morons not knowing what you claim to know: that they'd never even use a bomb simulation in a drill.

I would not be surprised if the organizers, or even some LE officers, might not be aware of the protocols and restrictions relating to explosives operations. However, in the confusion of the moment they might just be focused on other issues. I would not want to read too much into that.
post #40 of 255

You seem to be well informed about government operational procedures of this kind. Are you a member of law enforcement?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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