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Google's Schmidt: We'd like Apple have Google Maps as default on iOS - Page 3

post #81 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

You're being simply confused by the fact thinside their are two distinct OS's referred to as "Android". There's the Blackberry copycat OS that existed prior to 2007, then, there's iOS copycat OS that was created after that. Your confusion is understandable, since both of them are called "Android" but they are in fact two distinct OS's: Android I & Android II. Android II was created after Schmidt joined the Apple board, after iOS was revealed. So, regardless of whether Schmidt personally engaged in industrial sabotage, Android II is a copyears of iOS, and this argument of, "Android was created in 2003..." refers to Android I and has nothing to do with the iOS clone Android II.

That can't be any clearer, so anyone presenting this argument in contradiction of the fact that present day Android (Android II) is a clone of iOS either has no idea what they are talking about, or is deliberately being dishonest.

Calling it a BB copycat is wrong, at the time ALL smartphones looked very similar whether it was a BB, Palm, or a Windows phone. Being on Apple's BoD gave Schmidt a inside look at the future of smartphones and adjusted his company's plan accordingly. Was it underhanded and sneaky? Absolutely, but it would've been stupid of him to let his company stay the course they were on. He chose to be proactive instead of reactive, and it's paid off. Look how long it took BB and MS to adjust to the iPhone. While you might not like what Schmidt did you can at the very least understand why he did it. Instead of being 5-6 years behind the competition Android was only 1-2 years behind and rapidly making up the difference.
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post #82 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post

.
Oh my bad. When you said "Android" I assumed you meant "Android" and not Samsung's copycat version of Android.

If I had known you didn't know the difference between Samsung and Google I'd have never entered discussion with you.

You do not know how Samsung is able to copycat iPhone in detail?  It is Google's Android OS that provided copycat API of iOS that enabled Samsung to copycat iPhone.  

post #83 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

You do not know how Samsung is able to copycat iPhone in detail?  It is Google's Android OS that provided copycat API of iOS that enabled Samsung to copycat iPhone.  

Then how was it that Motorola, HTC, LG, etc... were able to make phones that were not easily confused with the iPhone?
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post #84 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

What iOS users really need is the ability to set their own default apps on their device: default web browser, default email client, default mapping app, default PDF viewing app, default music listening app, default text editor, etc.

 

Do we really need it? I didn't know that.
post #85 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Then how was it that Motorola, HTC, LG, etc... were able to make phones that were not easily confused with the iPhone?

Then why did they got sued by Apple too?  

post #86 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

 

What a shitty post. There's more "options" today on apple platforms that there ever has been in it's history. Oh no, if you want to use Google maps, you have to..TAP THE ICON!. The horror. How will being able to change it to the default really affect anything? It has nothing to do with "arrogance". Apple can design it's mobile OS hoever the **** it wants, and does so in a matter that it believes is most intuitive to the majority of people, not OCD geeks who feel the need to change the defaults for everything.  If you want to leave iOS do it- there's no reaon to make a threatening speech about it. For every user like you that Apple loses, they'll gain another 5. 

 

And your statement about the stock is hilarious. "It's no wonder apple's stock has fallen."

 

Yeah, clearly the stock has fallen because "lack of choice"- because back when it was $700 last year, iOS was an open platform and stuff, right? And back then, Apple offered so many more "choices", right? It's hilarious that you would attempt to blame the stock drop on an aspect of Apple that has remained constant almost since it's inception, an aspect which has seen it grow exponentially into the company it is today. And yet, suddenly you're attributing the stock drop to the fact that "Apple thinks it knows whats best for you", as if that just happened yesterday. The stock has absolutely nothing to do with that, as I doubt investors, analysts, or market manipulators give 2 fucks about the ability to defaults. You're clearly a troll who has never liked Apple, because any other explanation would make no sense. You have infinitely more map options and features on iOS than you did a year ago,and the Google maps app is also much, much better than what we had previously, as is Apple maps. 

 

" It's a real annoyance that apple thinks they know what's best for me"

 

You're right, Apple shouldn't decide on whats best. It should be a democracy, where they take the input of the entire world population and then somehow try to design something that pleases everey single individual. God forbid that Apple thinks it knows whats best for most people. I mean, what part of their track record would give them that confidence? Certainly not the part where they revolutionized 7 industries, and became one of the worlds most successful and loved companies. No, clearly someone like you knows much better. 

Nothing to add. I just want to quote this. Really show how ignorant philgar is.

post #87 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Then why did they got sued by Apple too?  

It wasn't because their phones looked like iPhones.
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post #88 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


That's more the fault of the manufacturers and carriers than Google.

 

How? If Apple can do it, how is it not Google's fault when they want to be carrier's slave?
post #89 of 130
Your screenshot above exhibits exactly the BS that Google gets excused for too often.
Just from looking at your screenshot I searched "Beaver Stadium, Curtin Rd" on Google maps and got nothing! I entered "E Park Ave, Bigler Rd" exactly as it appears in their own map graphic and again zilch "No results"! Entering the same text in Apple Maps brings me to the correct stadium and campus location both times.

The Google map inaccurately shows too large of a green section as "The Arboretum at Penn state" and doesn't properly identify Sunset View Park with a green section, as Apple Maps does. Google maps is far from infallible, far enough for Apple to be completely justified in wanting to replace them on their own devices.
post #90 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post


Google updates their Nexus phones as they please. They didn't put Android on the other manufacturers phones in the first place so updating those phones is not Google's responsibility. Google isn't the slave the manufacturers are.
Edited by dasanman69 - 4/17/13 at 8:19am
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post #91 of 130
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post
"Android II" isn't a copy. Android was inspired by iOS. But a copy?

 

What're you smoking? 1rolleyes.gif


Let me guess;you believe Apple owns the idea of a full touch smartphone huh?

 

Welp, that's today's worst guess so far.

post #92 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeiteasy View Post

 

If I get an email with an address and I touch it, it will take it to Apple maps. If I want to use Google maps instead, how can it be achieved? I get a http link in an email, if I touch it, it will take me to Safari. How to get that to Chrome? That is what setting default will do.

 

Hold down the text, cut, open alternative of your choice, paste.

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post #93 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Hold down the text, cut, open alternative of your choice, paste.

Not an elegant solution.
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post #94 of 130
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Not an elegant solution.

 

Well, you're not getting anything else.

post #95 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post

"Android II" isn't a copy. What are you smoking? Android was inspired by iOS. But a copy?

Let me guess;you believe Apple owns the idea of a full touch smartphone huh?

At least, a very, very strong inspiration.

Remember, all pre-iPhone Android designs look like BlackBerries, but post-iPhone Androids looked like iPhones. And used all the same gestures found on the iPhone.
post #96 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, you're not getting anything else.

Wrong answer.
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post #97 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

At least, a very, very strong inspiration.

Remember, all pre-iPhone Android designs look like BlackBerries, but post-iPhone Androids looked like iPhones. And used all the same gestures found on the iPhone.

I agree but I'd add a touch of copying. Schmidt knew that Apple was onto something special. That the future path of smartphones was touch screens, and had he not readjusted what they were doing with Android they would've been dead in the water from day 1.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #98 of 130
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Wrong answer.

 

Nope. It's the only answer.

 

Apple doesn't have to give you anything and you don't have to buy from Apple. How's that hard to understand?

post #99 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope. It's the only answer.

Apple doesn't have to give you anything and you don't have to buy from Apple. How's that hard to understand?

Yes in that you are correct, and I agree, but Apple isn't the only option. Being able to pick and choose defaults is one of the few advantages the competition has over iOS, and in many people's eyes a big one.
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post #100 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Nothing to add. I just want to quote this. Really show how ignorant philgar is.

What I find highly amusing is that after years of using (and loving) apple products, it is inconceivable to anyone on here that I'd want to leave their walled garden.  I have not attacked anyone on here, I have just said that I wish apple gave me choices, and didn't cram their default applications down my throat.  And yet, I'm getting attacked left and right on this forum (not just my beliefs about apple products, which you're welcome to attack, but personal attacks on me).  The response is simply that I'm obviously a troll, there's no way I ever used apple products etc, and that I'm clearly an idiot.

 

People, look out at the real world, not everyone worships at the feet of apple.  They're a company, just like every other one, and they're out there to make money.  They make some great products, I won't deny that.  Their products were leaps and bounds above the competition.  I started on apple with an iBook, and love OSX.  Back then macs were a great alternative for Linux geeks who were sick of trying to get laptops to work on linux.  OSX gave me the command line, and gave me expose, which was an incredibly useful feature.  The iBook was more expensive than the alternatives but not overly expensive.  At the time, there weren't decent windows machines with good battery life that were significantly cheaper than the iBook.  So I made the switch.

 

I loved the experience, I loved the options OSX gave me, and I bought an iPod because of it.   A little over a year after getting my iBook, it died, and I bought a macbook on the day they were announced.  I was no longer thrilled with apple thanks to having a computer that was worthless after a year and a half,but they were still the best option, and this time I bought applecare (which was necessary after 3 or 4 logic board failures, a HDD failure, DVD rom failure, screen failure, etc).  Despite the hardware issues I had with my macbook, I loved the thing.  I was considered a mac evangelist, and didn't want to consider using windows computers.

 

Before the iphone 4 came out, I had been using the same stupid phone for a while, and was ready to upgrade to a smart phone.  I waited in line much longer than I care to admit on the day the iphone came out to buy one.  I was one of those people..  And at the time, I considered the iphone to be vastly superior to the competition.  The retina display was simply awesome, the camera took some nice photos, and the form factor was great, and it just worked.  At the time, android's offerings were severely limited.  Low resolution displays, crappy cameras, flimsy hardware keyboards, etc.  It was a no brainer. 

 

However, over the following few years, I watched as apple became more and more manipulative and, in my eyes greedy.  Their demands to absolutely control the iOS store, basically forcing amazon books off it unless they gave apple a cut of each sale.  The 50% apple tax was looking pretty excessive (and yes, 1/3 of the purchase price is equivalent to a 50% surcharge.  The developer is selling an app for 66 cents, and apple gets 33 cents....), especially for apps that were bringing customers to apple rather than the other way around.  

 

Since that time, apple has made more decisions that seemed money grubbing to me, and I slowly backed away on my love of them.  Additionally, whereas in OSX once upon a time, apple had embraced the computer geeks, in the mobile space, the opposite seemed true.  They frowned upon tinkering with your phone, and from the attitude of people on here, i got the impression that a phone I bought wasn't my phone, but rather apple's phone.  Jailbreaking is wrong because apple says so, etc.  Despite all this, when the ipad3 came out, I was still solidly in the apple camp, and had to have one.  I knew it was a toy with no real use, but it had a nice retina display, and looked like a great way to browse the web (it still is).  It was also leaps and bounds ahead of the android competitors at the time (had I waited 8 months or so, things would have been very different, and I doubt I'd have bought an ipad).  Since then, apple's made more decisions to further lock down their OS.  Additionally, their lawsuits, against everyone who wanted to use touch were highly annoying to me.  I'm sick of the big guys picking on the little guys in tech.  All it does is kill competition.  As everyone here has rightfully pointed out, apple has made huge profits over the past few years.  More than enough to justify the the R&D in the iphone/ipad 100x over.  Wanting more money because the competitors were getting some crumbs seemed excessive to me.  Apple had gone from the little guy fighting the big guys, the loveable loser you thought was worth fighting for to the Goliath who was bullying everyone else.  Maybe it was all in my mind, but apple seemed to be doing all the things MS did back in the day that made me embrace linux and eventually OSX, so I decided it was time to leave.

 

When my iphone 4 died recently, I replaced it with a significantly cheaper samsung galaxy s3.  It might not be quite as nice as the iphone 5, but it's close enough.  Also, at $400 it was what.. half the price of the iphone, kind of a no brainer.  My next computer (to replace my 5 year old or so macbook will not be apple (I still can't stand the changes made to expose in snow leopard).

 

But yes, my experience has no grounding in reality, and I'm sure it's not typical of the standard consumer (those who embraced apple, or rather ios in the past 3-4 years).  The every day consumer don't give a shit about choice, or competition, or price or any of that. And they're going to be loyal to apple forever, buying new phones and tablets every 2 years, will gladly replace their 2 year old TV with $2000 iTVs when they're released.  At least, thats the picture I get on here.  Customers are notoriously fickle, and brand loyalty is relatively meaningless (just look at blackberry).  Apple is the style of the week right now, and has been for 10 years or so.  Once upon a time Sony was, many other companies have been.  Times change, tastes change.  If apple can't keep their core customers who have been with them for the past 10 years happy, how do you think they'll keep everyone else happy?  

 

I wish things were different, and I wasn't being chased away from the apple ecosystem, but considering apple's actions, I feel I have little choice.

 

Phil

post #101 of 130
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post
I swear I wasn't talking to you....

 

I'll save Solipsism the pain of having to say it again: Then don't post it on a public forum.

post #102 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I agree but I'd add a touch of copying. Schmidt knew that Apple was onto something special. That the future path of smartphones was touch screens, and had he not readjusted what they were doing with Android they would've been dead in the water from day 1.


You are distorting the history by hiding some facts.  Google worked closely with Apple before iPhone launch.  There are a team of Google engineers were given the iOS API by Apple. 

post #103 of 130
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post
Meaning my guess in no wave shape or form was directed towards you.

 

My guess is that you don't know what a public forum is.


Hear no. See no. Speak no.

post #104 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post


You are distorting the history by hiding some facts.  Google worked closely with Apple before iPhone launch.  There are a team of Google engineers were given the iOS API by Apple. 

The source code is there for all to see. Did they steal any code?
Edited by dasanman69 - 4/17/13 at 11:44am
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post #105 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by excelsior View Post


So

Why didn't Apple completely stop Android?

Why does this super espionage only come to fruition when a fanboy claims such?

Why has no Apple executive mentioned anything about this?

Why is Apple completely moronic in your world?


You need to ask Steve Jobs. 

post #106 of 130

With regards to why Google can't push updates... because Apple was able to extract that concession from a very weak AT&T at the time.  Apple's demand to control software was a monumental concession on AT&T's part, which probably saved AT&T.

post #107 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post

Because Apple was able to extract that concession from AT&T.

Are you answering someone's post? If you did you should've included their post within yours.
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post #108 of 130
Apple has passed the point of no return, period.I think they should have allowed themselves another year of development instead of rushing it out with iOS6 to have a truly great product. This way the terrible publicity could have been avoided. Apple cannot afford too many apologies like this before losing all its credibility.
post #109 of 130
Originally Posted by philky View Post
…another year of development…

 

If the rumors were correct, the deals with Google for content ran out before that could have happened.


This way the terrible publicity could have been avoided.

 

It's already forgotten.

post #110 of 130
Crossed swords really. Google's strategy is very much the web plus apps, whereas Apple's is apps plus the web.
post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Not an elegant solution.

...says the guy wanting crappy alternatives.
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post #112 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

You are distorting the history by hiding some facts.  Google worked closely with Apple before iPhone launch.  There are a team of Google engineers were given the iOS API by Apple. 

 

Rather, the other way around.  At the end of October 2006, Apple asked for Google's help with a mobile API to access Search and Maps.  (Imagine the iPhone's first year without Search, Maps, YouTube, and cell tower location.  It would've been a much less interesting and useful device without Google's products being ported.)

 

There's no evidence that Google engineers got to see the iPhone or its UI at all.  The stories say they hid all that. Heck, Apple didn't even show it to their own engineers working on various APIs.

 

However, I think this is most likely where a leak from Apple's team about the kind of UI could've come from, if there was any leak at all.  There would likely have been at least accidental hints about touch, touch map scrolling, etc.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

Crossed swords really. Google's strategy is very much the web plus apps, whereas Apple's is apps plus the web.

 

One of Google's advantages with maps was that they're also available to everyone on the web, on any kind of device.  This allowed millions of people to correct locations of businesses etc very easily.  

 

I think a web version would be just as helpful to Apple.

post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

...says the guy wanting crappy alternatives.

Getting less crappier each day.
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post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Rather, the other way around.  At the end of October 2006, Apple asked for Google's help with a mobile API to access Search and Maps.  (Imagine the iPhone's first year without Search, Maps, YouTube, and cell tower location.  It would've been a much less interesting and useful device without Google's products being ported.)

 

There's no evidence that Google engineers got to see the iPhone or its UI at all.  The stories say they hid all that. Heck, Apple didn't even show it to their own engineers working on various APIs.

 

However, I think this is most likely where a leak from Apple's team about the kind of UI could've come from, if there was any leak at all.  There would likely have been at least accidental hints about touch, touch map scrolling, etc.

 

 

One of Google's advantages with maps was that they're also available to everyone on the web, on any kind of device.  This allowed millions of people to correct locations of businesses etc very easily.  

 

I think a web version would be just as helpful to Apple.


Are you making this up?  Where do you get this information?  Who coded the first Maps app on iPhone in 2007?

post #115 of 130
Google still believes in the web. At least for now.
post #116 of 130

I agree with Schmidt, I'd love to have Google Maps as default. 

 

I've tossed Apple's map app in a folder, I never use it.  Apple tried to reinvent the wheel with their maps, and failed miserably, crashed, and burned.  They need to admit their mistake and suck up to Google.

post #117 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post

I agree with Schmidt, I'd love to have Google Maps as default. 

 

I've tossed Apple's map app in a folder, I never use it.  Apple tried to reinvent the wheel with their maps, and failed miserably, crashed, and burned.  They need to admit their mistake and suck up to Google.


Totally useless and deceptive post. 

post #118 of 130
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post
I've tossed Apple's map app in a folder, I never use it.  Apple tried to reinvent the wheel with their maps, and failed miserably, crashed, and burned.  They need to admit their mistake and suck up to Google.

 

Enjoy your stupid FUD.

post #119 of 130

I'd have to agree in that Google's app is currently superior.  I've had a few encounters using the Apple maps information (not the actual guidance) being incorrect and resulted in me calling places that had nothing to do with what I was attempting to call.

 

That being said, I do look forward to any improvements Apple can make to the app.  Competition is never bad.

post #120 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Are you making this up?  Where do you get this information?  Who coded the first Maps app on iPhone in 2007?

 

Google phone maps started back in 2005 with Google Local for Mobile for any Java enabled handset. It had road and satellite images, GPS support, directions, local search and results dialing. Traffic was later added in 2006 when the name was changed to Google Maps for Mobile.

 

 

As for the iPhone, Apple added maps relatively late in its development before showing it off.
 
Quote:
On Halloween in 2006—just months before the iPhone was announced—Apple's product-marketing head, Phil Schiller, and other executives met with Google engineers to determine how the iPhone could use Google's mapping data to let people see their locations and get directions. 
 
Quote:
...numerous interviews with former Apple employees in the wake of the maps controversy made it clear that Mr. Jobs and other executives rarely paid as much attention to Internet services as they did to the devices for which Apple is best known. Nor did they show the kind of consistent foresight in this area that has served the company so well in designing hardware and software.
 
Including a maps app on the first iPhone was not even part of the company’s original plan as the phone’s unveiling approached in January 2007. Just weeks before the event, Mr. Jobs ordered a mapping app to show off the capabilities of the touch-screen device.
 
Two engineers put together a maps app for the presentation in three weeks, said a former Apple engineer who worked on iPhone software, and who declined to be named because he did not want to speak publicly about his previous employer. The company hastily cut a deal with Google to use its map data.
 

 

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