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Shares of Apple sink after supplier Cirrus warns of weak results - Page 3

post #81 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Ridiculous the company is sitting on $145 billion in cash and does not buy its own stock back.

It doesn't? When did they decide to no longer buy back their stock?

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post #82 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What makes the market swallow Amazon's results -- such as they are -- is the fact that investors think Bezos is communicating his strategy well. For whatever reason, they trust him. He is always out there, making a case for his company, his stock, his products/services.

Apple just clams up. Not a peep. As a result, there is ton of misinformation and disinfomration that investors are simply not able to sort through. Here's s startling statistic: the volatility (measured by the annualized standard deviation) in the overall market is about 15%. Apple's was ~20% last year, and ~25% earlier this year. I the past couple of weeks, it has jumped to ~44%.

This kind of excess volatility is simply the result of no/poor/bogus/dis-/mis-information.

I've said this many times before, and I'll say it again: Cook and Oppenheimer are not terribly savvy in their dealings with the market (Jobs did not have that problem because he was a known quantity), and the Board has been absolutely atrocious.
I don't agree with you that Amazon communicates more. I tune in to CNBC on a regular basis and they're always going after Amazon for saying nothing on their earnings calls or putting out press releases with no hard information. I think it's pretty simple. The market treats Bezos like they did Jobs. He can basically get away with anything because he's treated like a messianic figure.
post #83 of 304
"...it would see lower shipments of a high-volume product as an unnamed customer migrates to a newer component from Cirrus...."
 
criminals from Wall Street have reversed this actually very good news into another Apple's flop...
 
it's not anymore about Apple. It's all about Tim Cook and his incompetence to realize he is not considered as next Jobs thus not having privilege not treat Wall Street idiots the same way. Cook is a logistic specialist who needs a properly managed development side. Period.
post #84 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics it takes to look a company that turns a profit and then claim they are "sitting on their cash". In the last year along Apple has spent more of its profits than Amazon has ever made in its entire history as a company, private or public.

As Cook said, "a pair of tens"—billions—over the past two years.

People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.

When Apple comes up with a new technology to spend on, of course they're going to. They already are. They don't even have a single headquarters to work out of yet, this cash pile is so new for them.

Peoples' long-range vision and attention spans are seriously deficient these days.
post #85 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post


 

This person should be fired as a troll for losing his grasp of mature discourse.

By the way, he's back from lunch. I said I would ignore him when he trashed the other thread, but this specimen is too easy a target.

 

 

Solidarity!

post #86 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamracer View Post

The moment the stock went under 420 was a good time to sell. (stop loss at 219,70)

If it goes under 400, it could go under 390 ?

Perhaps 390 is a good entry point. Only time will tell ....
But perhaps we better wait until some good news and product presentations form apple to reinvest the cash.

I still own 60% of my initial 100% shares. :-(

 

Best regards

 

Why are you " :-( "?

 

Did you buy high?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #87 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Looks like Apple is buying back shares right now as there seems to be a constant but limited buy order just pennies above $400.

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post #88 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I don't agree with you that Amazon communicates more. I tune in to CNBC on a regular basis and they're always going after Amazon for saying nothing on their earnings calls or putting out press releases with no hard information. I think it's pretty simple. The market treats Bezos like they did Jobs. He can basically get away with anything because he's treated like a messianic figure.

Read the annual "letter to shareholders" that Bezos writes: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual. Some of it may be pap, but the point is, he does communicate more. (Apple does not -- and did not need to, as long as SJ was around -- do anything similar).

 

Cook et. al are unknown quantities. They have to make their case to the market. The market needs to get a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and what their strategy is, going forward. Not platitudes like "we have an amazing pipeline."

 

You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.

 

I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

post #89 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What makes the market swallow Amazon's results -- such as they are -- is the fact that investors think Bezos is communicating his strategy well. For whatever reason, they trust him. He is always out there, making a case for his company, his stock, his products/services.

 

Apple just clams up. Not a peep. As a result, there is ton of misinformation and disinfomration that investors are simply not able to sort through. Here's s startling statistic: the volatility (measured by the annualized standard deviation) in the overall market is about 15%. Apple's was ~20% last year, and ~25% earlier this year. I the past couple of weeks, it has jumped to ~44%.

 

This kind of excess volatility is simply the result of no/poor/bogus/dis-/mis-information.

 

I've said this many times before, and I'll say it again: Cook and Oppenheimer are not terribly savvy in their dealings with the market (Jobs did not have that problem because he was a known quantity), and the Board has been absolutely atrocious.

 

I gotta tell you... Sometimes I think Apple should hire Bob Iger for CEO and give Tim back his old job. It really is all about perception with these Wall Street dirtbags.

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post #90 of 304
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
Google may have the right idea steal everyone's data and call it a day.

 

Just reading this is funny to me. Glad for a laugh today.

post #91 of 304

Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights

Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.

 

What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?

post #92 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Criminals? Idiots? Which is it? And who the **** are you?

 

 

Criminals - because they are manipulating the stock to lure out as much stock as possible, before sending the value in heights

Idiots - because they are loosing money with it, they will loose it even more and sending stock directly back in Apple's open hands.

 

What do you care, who am I? I can tell you I am not a criminal and every sane person reading my posts can also say I am not an idiot. So, I am not from Wall Street. Are you?

post #93 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

...You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.

 

I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

 

You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.

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post #94 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

People act like there's an obvious opportunity to spend in multiples of tens of billions. You can only build so many billion-dollar data centers at a time, open so many stores around the world, prop up so many Sharps, back so many Foxconns or TMSCs in their U.S. screen and chip plants, etc.

If a company does not a have a 5-, 7-, 10-year roadmap and broad investment plans under likely scenarios within that roadmap, they would be stupid or naive or both. Apple is neither.

 

Jobs easily had that kind of vision. (Think about how long the iPad took to come to fruition, despite the fact that its development started before that for the iPhone). The market needs to believe that Cook can project that kind of vision, and not just talking points and platitudes.

post #95 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It doesn't? When did they decide to no longer buy back their stock?

 

Their current buyback is a pittance - $2 billion a year to counter dilution from employee stock options.  That is it.  The company effectively has no real buyback program 

 

Why not?   I have no clue.  Ask Buffett if he thinks it would be a good idea  

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post #96 of 304

Apple should float a $200B bond and buy back over 50% of the company.  By the end of 2014 they will have $200B and can easily pay off the bond.  The EPS will blow up to $85.  With a paltry 8 P/E the stock would be at $700.

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post #97 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.

Why does anyone have to "come out swinging" or "attack everyone in the press" over anything?! Over what?

 

Nothing could be further from what I am trying to get at. I am simply suggesting that Apple needs to be seen as being pro-active and aggressive in its product/market strategy and it financial strategy. Currently, it is probably seen as passive and paralyzed.

post #98 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Apple's stock has been in a downward spiral for a while. Valuation is always about the future. The future is the only thing that matters. Since the release of iPhone 5, the market has started to question the future of Apple as the world’s leading innovator. In the 1980s, DEC was at the top, but the brand is dead. RIM was the leader in early 2000s but is increasingly irrelevant. You can also add the 1990s hotshots Palm, Yahoo!, and AOL. Apple itself was close to bankruptcy in the mid 1990s. Apple keeps a whopping $140 billion in cash. It sounds sweet if you are a naive investor. But, shrewd investors should question the rationale. After all, you didn’t invest in a bank. Why is Apple using your investment to just save in bank deposits earning 2%? The stock decline needs to be halted and hopefully reversed to a growth stock again. 

Most analysts are asshats and have a lot of ulterior motives for running down AAPL. So yeah, I do think this will be an extremely important year for Apple and we will see if Tim Cook is the man with the plan and vision for the future or will just be conservative and rest on the laurels of past glory trying to maintain current marketshare. 

 

A drop from a high of $705 to $397 today in such a short amount of time is extreme. I used to be a big Tim Cook supporter but he seems more suited to his former job than CEO. Long term, short of a brand new product line with the success of the iPad or massively increased sales for current product lines like the iPhone which generates more than 50% of their revenue I don't see the stock breaking $500 again anytime soon. Short term band aids like stock buy backs and higher dividends would help for a while but Apple has to do something to break this downward spiral. If rumors are to be believed about a 5S then I don't see any upward momentum in shares this year. 

 

Ah, great post.

 

Apple is missing a tech visionary. Tim Cook is not a visionary.

 

No vision, no go.

 

Insanely great is now gone and the next insanely great leader for Apple needs to be found.

 

A tech leader and not a manager, like Tim. Although you need both.

post #99 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

I gotta tell you... Sometimes I think Apple should hire Bob Iger for CEO and give Tim back his old job. It really is all about perception with these Wall Street dirtbags.

This is actually not a bad idea at all! 

post #100 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Looks like Apple is buying back shares right now as there seems to be a constant but limited buy order just pennies above $400.

Nah! It's Michael Dell 1smile.gif

Whoever it was they seemed to really want to close on an up tick but there was a 350K share sell right at the closing bell which resulted in a down tick. But they managed to keep it above $400 until the end of the day. I'm anxious to see what happens after hours..

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post #101 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I can't imagine the mental gymnastics it takes to look a company that turns a profit and then claim they are "sitting on their cash" despite nearly daily news of huge investments. In the last year along Apple has spent more of its profits than Amazon has ever made in its entire history as a company, private or public.

You can say they should do more but to claim they aren't doing anything but sitting on it is complete BS.


They could be working on the apps they have neglected and need work. Numbers is one of them, based on what I've read.

post #102 of 304

I don't think has anything to do with Cirrus reports, especially when they claim that the "Supplier" had migrated to a newer component. Apple opened lower along with the market and this stupid news drove frantic investors to dump the stock as they could not take one more round of  blood bath. The support levels at $420 range were broken and that was enough for the downward spiral.

 

Now, for Apple's strategy with new product introduction, I think they have learnt their lesson to not announce it much ahead of the actual product being available as this has killed sales of current products. I think going forward, their strategy would be announce a new product and make it available in a very short period of time and perhaps they will also stop attaching number to iphone, such as 5s, 6 etc. It will simply be New iPhone and let the product speak for itself as to how new it is.

 

The stock is bound to make a come back later this year, and I believe that would happen with a new Product (perhaps an iWatch or an iWallet) that could eat into current payment processing markets. The opportunity is huge and Apple has the cash, technology and  user base.

 

But, then again, this is me being very optimistic about this company. If by October, they don't make a brand new product line announcement, or the stock hits $260 a share, I will dump the stock.

post #103 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Apple should float a $200B bond and buy back over 50% of the company.  By the end of 2014 they will have $200B and can easily pay off the bond.  The EPS will blow up to $85.  With a paltry 8 P/E the stock would be at $700.

Isn't that a variation on a theme used by Jimmy Ling in the 1960's?
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post #104 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post


They could be working on the apps they have neglected and need work. Numbers is one of them, based on what I've read.

1) In no way does that mean they are simply sitting on all their money with neither desire nor interest in investing for the future.

2) I'd like a lot of HW and SW updates to be released today, including the iWork suite of apps, but not having evidence of them working on their products is no proof that they aren't.

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post #105 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

You must keep in mind also that there are legal reasons Apple's CEO cannot simply come out swinging and attack everyone in the press. Jobs did it the right way, all behind the scenes, cursing at reporters and berating them off the record.
Why does anyone have to "come out swinging" or "attack everyone in the press" over anything?! Over what?

Nothing could be further from what I am trying to get at. I am simply suggesting that Apple needs to be seen as being pro-active and aggressive in its product/market strategy and it financial strategy. Currently, it is probably seen as passive and paralyzed.

Interesting thought... in re to appearances: reactive > paralyzed
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 4/17/13 at 1:33pm
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post #106 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Read the annual "letter to shareholders" that Bezos writes: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual. Some of it may be pap, but the point is, he does communicate more. (Apple does not -- and did not need to, as long as SJ was around -- do anything similar).

Cook et. al are unknown quantities. They have to make their case to the market. The market needs to get a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and what their strategy is, going forward. Not platitudes like "we have an amazing pipeline."

You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.

I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
So you think Apple needs to start releasing an annual report?
post #107 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Their current buyback is a pittance - $2 billion a year to counter dilution from employee stock options.  That is it.  The company effectively has no real buyback program 

Why not?   I have no clue.  Ask Buffett if he thinks it would be a good idea  

You're original comment stated that Apple "does not buy its own stock back." You can opine that it should be more but to say that they don't do it at all simply isn't accurate, regardless of why they are doing it.

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post #108 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Read the annual "letter to shareholders" that Bezos writes: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-reportsannual. Some of it may be pap, but the point is, he does communicate more. (Apple does not -- and did not need to, as long as SJ was around -- do anything similar).

Cook et. al are unknown quantities. They have to make their case to the market. The market needs to get a sense of who they are, what they stand for, and what their strategy is, going forward. Not platitudes like "we have an amazing pipeline."

You may not like it, I may not like it, Apple may not like it, but it is simply the case right now that the negative sentiment is overwhelming, and Apple looks paralyzed. There's no way around it.

I have tremendous faith in Apple's long-run value-creation abilities, and I have little worry that the stock will rebound handsomely over a 3 - 5 year horizon. I am not selling (in fact, I bought some more today). But this kind of bloodbath needs a very strong, effective management response, or a poor reputation (which has clearly been created) will stick. And if that happens, my (cheap) prediction is that it may not end well for Cook. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.
So you think Apple needs to start releasing an annual report?

Uh? No.

 

I was simply responding to your claim that Bezos does not communicate all that much. 

post #109 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

 
You're original comment stated that Apple "does not buy its own stock back." You can opine that it should be more but to say that they don't do it at all simply isn't accurate, regardless of why they are doing it.

Actually I was mistaken when I suggested that Apple was probably buying back shares today.

 

 

Quote: From Wikipedia
Companies trading in the U.S. are required to preannounce stock buyback programs before they begin buying shares, and then to report on such programs in their quarterly and annual filings

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post #110 of 304

So many pathetic posts.  Apple's growth off the iPhone and iPad is mostly over, but they can still be a successful company selling just those products.  Maybe they can monetize the expanding iOS system, but it really needs a new product if the share price is going to recover.  Until then a dividend increase would provide support for the stock and be good for investors.  My guess is they increase the buybacks to try and let the execs sell at a higher price.  If they go that direction I would suggest selling on the next pop because buybacks favor sellers, not investors.

post #111 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post
If they go that direction I would suggest selling on the next pop because buybacks favor sellers, not investors.

LOL. Then why are there buyers? Is Apple holding a gun to their head -- making them an offer they can't refuse? lol.gif

post #112 of 304

Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80

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post #113 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Uh? No.

I was simply responding to your claim that Bezos does not communicate all that much. 
Bezos communicates what he wants ans when he wants to and Wall Street laps it up. Hence Amazon can have a no profit quarter, say nothing, basically give Wall Street the middle finger on their earnings calls and their stock jumps. 5% e next day.
post #114 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If a company does not a have a 5-, 7-, 10-year roadmap and broad investment plans under likely scenarios within that roadmap, they would be stupid or naive or both. Apple is neither.

Jobs easily had that kind of vision. (Think about how long the iPad took to come to fruition, despite the fact that its development started before that for the iPhone). The market needs to believe that Cook can project that kind of vision, and not just talking points and platitudes.

And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.

The market IS stupid and naive in this sense. To the extent it wants Apple to behave like Samsung, it shows its ignorance of the way Apple works.

Tim Cook has been relentless in sticking to the mantra, Apple's determination to focus on its simple goal of "making great products for people" that they didn't know they wanted or needed, and are in fact insanely great, etc. You know and I know that Jobs and Ive had a roadmap and that they imparted it to Cook (if they even had to; I'm sure he gets it just fine).

This is too simple and too subtle for the market to grasp. You want Cook to lay out the road map explicitly. I'm sure they talk this over all the time, and I'm thinking that they will throw out something for the sheep next week, and that's about all your going to get. It is just too dangerous for Cook to be pandering to the market the way Bezos has to. ("We're Apple. We don't even own suits.") It would signal weakness and insecurity like nothing else could.

If you don't listen or believe what I've already told you, says Cook, that's your problem. If you think I'm just talking in platitudes, just wait. You'll eat those words. (That's him talking, not me. Just the way i'd write the script, for what it's worth.)
post #115 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

So many pathetic posts.  Apple's growth off the iPhone and iPad is mostly over, but they can still be a successful company selling just those products.  Maybe they can monetize the expanding iOS system, but it really needs a new product if the share price is going to recover.  Until then a dividend increase would provide support for the stock and be good for investors.  My guess is they increase the buybacks to try and let the execs sell at a higher price.  If they go that direction I would suggest selling on the next pop because buybacks favor sellers, not investors.

So you think that Apple's YoY growth are really close together for the iPhone and iPad? No need to wait for the next quarter results, just go ahead and add up the unit sales for the last quarters and tell me if you see any difference between the two years.

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post #116 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

LOL. Then why are there buyers? Is Apple holding a gun to their head -- making them an offer they can't refuse? lol.gif

 

ROFL yourself.  People have been buying since $700, doesnt make it right.  People buy losers all the time (not referring to Apple), it's the nature of investing that their are winners and losers.  So thanks for the stupid reply.

post #117 of 304
At what point is all this supposed bad news already priced into the stock? The headlines today are AAPL dropped 5% on fears of a bad quarter. But didn't people start predicting a bad quarter after the last earnings call when Apple lowered guidance and their stock priced dropped like $50 after hours? Where isth bottom in the stock?
post #118 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

I'm not looking to capture the absolute bottom. I need confirmation of an uptrend and there is definitely no signs of that yet. The only trend on AAPL's chart is down. I'm not a chart statistician, and I don't even play one on the internet, but there are various signs to look for. 

 

Hey, I have a billion dollars of my employer's money I want to make a killing on before I replace it... let me know when you make a move and I'll be right behind you. Trust me.

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post #119 of 304

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Someone just made a strange trade in After Hours. They bought 10,742 shares at $426 when the stock was trading at $403 then one minute later someone picked up 11,800 shares at $402.80

It could have just been a late print.

No I don't think so, I'm watching realtime plus that is above the open price

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post #120 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

And if anyone thinks that Jobs, Cook and Ive don't have a long range plan for the world, then they are stupid, naive or both.

The market IS stupid and naive in this sense. 

I am sure you think so. But I happen to think that the market is neither stupid nor naive. It is simply reacting to lack of credible, believable information. At this point, it appears confused -- rightly or wrongly (and I happen to think, wrongly) about Apple's future prospects.

 

If Apple does not control the information flow about its performance, the information flow will control it.

 

As has already happened. A lot of people dismiss the ~$290B in market cap as paper wealth losses or might be happy to revel in the schadenfreude: but it is people's retirement wealth, savings for kids' college education, endowment holdings of non-profits and charities, and nest eggs for that next home improvement project. The wealth consequences -- and hence, the reputational consequences -- are real.

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