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Can Apple afford to go cheaper with new iPhones? - Page 2

post #41 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If you want to participate in the conversation and have something to add to the thread then by all means do so but please don't post spam to other sites that aren't germane or don't carry the conversation. Your post will self destruct in 5… 4… 3… 2…

Germane?

Dammit, man.

Stop making me look up words and get edumacated!
post #42 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyx View Post

I'm a bit confused by all this "cheap" iPhone talk. I can get an iPhone 4 for $0.99 or an iPhone 4s for $99.99 from AT&T. Seems pretty cheap to me. I'm not really sure what people expect from Apple these days.

 

 

The US is not the only the important market, and these prices are US specific. Apple's sales are far more distributed than that. Subsidized purchases are not the norm in every country. Even here you have things like prepaid services such as straight talk and virgin with lower plan rates. The question for Apple would be if they are better off addressing these markets with one and 2 year old models starting at $450 and $550 off contract or by a variation in design. The overall final matrix of features and price points is up  to Apple, but this is about what is good for the company, just like any other decision.

post #43 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbyx View Post

I'm a bit confused by all this "cheap" iPhone talk. I can get an iPhone 4 for $0.99 or an iPhone 4s for $99.99 from AT&T. Seems pretty cheap to me. 

That is on a 2 year contract.

 

Nobody is getting any iPhone for only 99 cents. You are paying many hundreds of dollars for that iPhone which costs 99 cents.

post #44 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I've said this before and don't want to be tiresome about it, but they can't sell an all-glass phone as a world phone. That design was for people who live protected lives. Domesticated, if you like.

Maybe by "iPhone 4ish" you mean the old innards in a different case?

Yes, glass is expensive but plastic is cheap looking.
post #45 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Oh please. People post links here all the time. It is fine to post links to roughlydrafted or daring fireball and all the other sites but not to this website? He could have lied and said he read that article and pretended not to be the author but he was upfront and honest. No one was forced to click it and he made a lot more sense than many here and it tied in well with the topic at hand. 

1) You've based your argument on a presumption that he didn't read the article but wants others to go to his site. Brilliant defense!

2) Member post links a the time but they usually add to the conversation at hand. The link supports one's position. No one has taken issue with one having their own website — save for AI not linking to 9to5mac — but when you add nothing you don't do yourself any favour in attracting people to understand your PoV (see gemac posts for examples).

3) Again (because I'm familiar with you), if you want to promote your site or link to another site feel free but if you post a link with no lead in as to why one should click the link you don't yourself any favours. Even a summary of what is stated would be sufficient otherwise you come across as someone trying to increase their page rank (at best) to some but that hands out his manifesto on street corners between yelling at his own shadow (worst).
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/20/13 at 2:59pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #46 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I don't think the 3 or 3GS looked cheap. And since many if not most people uses cases does it really matter what it looks like? Phones are disposable items that few people keep longer than 20 - 24 months. I think too big of a deal is being made about materials. If they can make a phone that is more scratch and drop proof than anything on the market right now that could obviate the need for a case I couldn't care less what materials were used. Until then I will stick with a case and realize I bought my phone to use and not to admire like an art piece. 

1) The 2nd and 3rd gen iPhones did look cheaper than the original iPhone. You probably one of the people predicting Apple's demise back in 2008 for reducing quality and in 2009 for not radically changing the design after a year.

2) Phones, in general, are disposable, and yet the iPhone holds it value quite well with a vibrant market for used devices.

3) Who cares about materials? Again, look at Apple's resale value and continued use post first sale. Also look at others with no profits that feel as you do about quality. Finally, look at Samsung that plans to make a better quality device.

4) I suspect the reason why you're so flummoxed by Apple's business success and mindshare across all product ranges is because you don't have a concept of quality.
Edited by SolipsismX - 4/20/13 at 3:11pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #47 of 117
If Apple needed a cheap phone they would have introduced a cheap a** phone from the jump. This article just reflects what the guys on Wall Street want. They want a cheapo iPhone so they can move the stock up as a cheap iPhone sells.
But who said the low end market needs Apple? The low end market always had cheap phones.
And what will the analyst say once a saturate cheapo iPhone stalls in sales? Give the phone an expiration date like milk?
post #48 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

First of all, the iPad Mini is not a 7" tablet. It's 7.9", so it's more accurate to call it an 8 inch tablet, as even one inch makes a huge difference in tablet size and usability. And also, the iPad Mini's aspect ratio gives it a much larger screen area than that of crappy 7" Android tablets. ...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

No, he didn't say that. He very clearly stated, "We know developers aren't going to [...] change their software every time the screen size changes," he added. "When we make decisions on 7-inch tablets it's not about cost, it's about the value of the product when you factor in the software." ... snip

 

Those are all true, but have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what his or my comments were about.

 

I was replying to the claim that, " All (Jobs) said was that their competitors were going down the wrong road with their 7" tablets running scaled up mobile phone software."

 

Jobs did not talk about scaled up software, he talked about scaled down tablet apps.

 

And, as you two pointed out, that's not "all Jobs said", either :)

post #49 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

First of all, the iPad Mini is not a 7" tablet. It's 7.9", so it's more accurate to call it an 8 inch tablet, as even one inch makes a huge difference in tablet size and usability. And also, the iPad Mini's aspect ratio gives it a much larger screen area than that of crappy 7" Android tablets. ...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

No, he didn't say that. He very clearly stated, "We know developers aren't going to [...] change their software every time the screen size changes," he added. "When we make decisions on 7-inch tablets it's not about cost, it's about the value of the product when you factor in the software." ... snip

 

Those are all true, but have very little or nothing to do with what his or my comments were about.

 

I was only replying to the claim that, " All he said was that their competitors were going down the wrong road with their 7" tablets running scaled up mobile phone software."

 

Jobs did not talk about scaled up software, he talked about scaled down tablet apps.  If you recall, he mentioned something about needing sandpaper to make tinier fingers.

 

And, as you two pointed out, that's not all he said, either :)

post #50 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Yes, glass is expensive but plastic is cheap looking.

Glass is breakable was my point, and Apple can do plastic that is not cheap looking. Samsing does cheap looking, Apple does classy, like old Bakelite or celluloid. Their white polycarbonite laptops were beautiful in their way.
post #51 of 117
Why can't Apple make a phone out of the 5th gen iPod touch? Why does a cheaper iPhone have to be plastic (and no I won't use the word polycarbonate just to make it sound better).
post #52 of 117
Quote:
Conventional wisdom says Apple both desperately needs a cheaper iPhone model to compete with low end Android and Nokia offerings...

The article is based on the above flawed premise which is never explained and throws in a gratuitous editorialising "desperately" for added drama. So many words saying not very much at all, it's a lost art.
post #53 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Glass is breakable was my point, and Apple can do plastic that is not cheap looking. Samsing does cheap looking, Apple does classy, like old Bakelite or celluloid. Their white polycarbonite laptops were beautiful in their way.

Transparent Aluminum
post #54 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Why can't Apple make a phone out of the 5th gen iPod touch? Why does a cheaper iPhone have to be plastic (and no I won't use the word polycarbonate just to make it sound better).

I don't understand your query. What makes you think they don't have the ability? The iPod Touch comes from the iPhone R&D in most regards.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #55 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Oh please. People post links here all the time. It is fine to post links to roughlydrafted or daring fireball and all the other sites but not to this website? He could have lied and said he read that article and pretended not to be the author but he was upfront and honest. No one was forced to click it and he made a lot more sense than many here and it tied in well with the topic at hand.

All or some of the content of the article should be put into the forum post. A new poster who puts an article on their site and just says 'go to my website' is not participating in the discussion here and it's considered spamming. It's much worse when it's the poster's own site and it's the first and only thing they've posted.
post #56 of 117
They could make an iPod+Cellular, but they'd have to make several design decisions; these can be posed as a series of questions:

1) Do they add the hardware most seem to ignore as well, ie. mic, top speaker, proximity sensor, does it even have a flash?

2) How do they produce this and add a new direction or spin on it so it isn't meh?

3) Do they keep the anodised metal back, or would this not provide good enough reception?

4) Would replacing the Touch's casing with plastic maintain it's strong feel of quality?

I would answer these as:

1) they would probably have to, but this would clearly increase the price, and cannibalise some iPhone purchases if the perceived value is not differentiated enough (as it currently is). Apple has become less wary of cannibalisation of late due in part, I believe, to the almost equally valuable upsell.

2) This is hotly-debated, but, completely pulling this out of my... hat, I'd suggest a software and revenue-sharing solution to this problem. Apple could use the new "Touch" to push a paid VOIP>Phone based service a la Skype with paid minutes, app-specific unlimited data (Talk, messages and FaceTime only probably) with a revenue-split on minutes with whatever carrier you choose (software-based sign up, no contract but registered to a person adding value for carrier partners). They could also do iMessage forwarding to text with a carrier deal for non-iOS devices (the carrier then benefits from iMessage users, texts have always been free to them) and no MMS (this has still not really taken off due to lack of carrier plans). They could have data plans of straight GB for $ with possible discounts for larger amounts, and all this could also work over WiFi, again to the benefit of the carrier (no bandwidth, still get a share of minutes). It might just work.

3) & 4) This is a highly-technical issue in which it would be hard to make a guess at, but a plastic back would definitely be spun as a "downgrade" by pundits, even if it was hugely more practical from both end-use & cost perspectives. It's a hard one to guess at, especially considering Apple's varied history in these decisions (3G/S, iPod touch history)

It could be done, but do all the pieces fit?
post #57 of 117

"while also holding that lower margins would destroy the company's profitability."

 

If you had 20% of dead mass in your body, it would probably kill you.

 

So why is it that Wall St. demands that Apple keep posting these ridiculous margins?

 

There's no upside here. If Apple's margins improve but marketshare slides, the stock will be punished. If the margins go down but they get more share, the stock will be punished.

 

All the while Apple stocks up cash for no reason at all. If that money was spent on R&D - no, forget that - if 1/3rd of that money was spent on R&D instead of propping up analysis's balance sheets, Apple would be so far out in the lead on tech that… the stock would be punished.

post #58 of 117
As far as "cheap" is concerned, is e.g. BMW Mini Cooper or BMW 1 series or Audi A1 or Mercedes Benz A class cars cheap or low cost? Do you think that BMW, Audi or MB can afford those models?
post #59 of 117
No.
post #60 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't understand your query. What makes you think they don't have the ability? The iPod Touch comes from the iPhone R&D in most regards.
I ask the question because I hardly ever hear anyone say they should turn the iPod touch into a low cost phone. I guess I don't get why everyone (or it seems like everyone) assumes a low cost iPhone would be a brand new product and would be plastic.
post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

 

The US is not the only the important market, and these prices are US specific. Apple's sales are far more distributed than that. Subsidized purchases are not the norm in every country. Even here you have things like prepaid services such as straight talk and virgin with lower plan rates. The question for Apple would be if they are better off addressing these markets with one and 2 year old models starting at $450 and $550 off contract or by a variation in design. The overall final matrix of features and price points is up  to Apple, but this is about what is good for the company, just like any other decision.

 

Fair enough.  But I still don't understand the product.  An unsubsidized iPhone 4 or 4S is less expensive than an unsubsidized iPhone 5 today.  So what people want, then, is a phone that is somehow based on the current model but costs 2/3 the price of the unsubsidized "flagship" model?  This new phone should be even cheaper than the two year old model that is still in production.  Am I getting this right?

 

The only thing the "cheap" iPhone will be is...a cheap iPhone.  There's a reason these phones cost a lot of money unsubsidized.  They are incredible pieces of engineering.  They are computers and we don't expect our computers to cost $200.  We all know better.  We all know that a $200 computer is going to be a miserable, compromised experience.

 

I used to think a large screen iPhone was a bad idea but I've come around on my thinking.  I do think a larger (not phablet large, though) screen iPhone makes a lot of sense, far more sense than a "cheap" one.  The other thing to consider about a "cheap" iPhone is whether buyers of such a product will be inclined to make iTunes Store purchases.  Does it really serve Apple to offer a barebones iPhone when the purchasers are (my guess) less likely to generate further revenue through App and iTunes Store purchases?  How many of these cheap Android phones and tablets are used to buy apps or music or rent movies?  My guess is very few.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That is on a 2 year contract.

 

Nobody is getting any iPhone for only 99 cents. You are paying many hundreds of dollars for that iPhone which costs 99 cents.

 

I get that.  See above.


Edited by robbyx - 4/20/13 at 6:15pm
post #62 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by erann View Post

As far as "cheap" is concerned, is e.g. BMW Mini Cooper or BMW 1 series or Audi A1 or Mercedes Benz A class cars cheap or low cost? Do you think that BMW, Audi or MB can afford those models?

The mini isn't branded a BMW.
Do any of the other cars cost $20000?
post #63 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I'm still trying to figure out what the endgame is here, because that is not at all clear to me.

 

I mean, what is Apple's purpose and why do they exist?

 

Purpose is usually expressed in a company's mission statement. But Apple's mission statement is not written particularly well:

http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=6

 

Quote:

What is Apple's mission statement?

Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad.

 

Uh, so ignoring the résumé-sounding parts of this mission statement, the only thing "mission statementy" is the second half of the last sentence: to define the future of mobile media and computing devices with iPad. Hmm... that seems somehow wanting. I'm sure this mission statement is obligatory, rather than utilitarian.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #64 of 117
DED - please stop using the term "cheaper" when refering to Apple's product line. That term has completely different connotations than saying "less expensive". Apple does not build cheap products, unlike their competitors. They add to their product lines less expensive models that are still built with Apple's same dedication to engineering excellence, innovation and high quality, but at a lower price point. There in lies a huge world of difference between the two terms.
post #65 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

...but at a lower price point.

"price point" sounds like marketspeak for "cheap", what's wrong with simply using "price"
post #66 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I ask the question because I hardly ever hear anyone say they should turn the iPod touch into a low cost phone. I guess I don't get why everyone (or it seems like everyone) assumes a low cost iPhone would be a brand new product and would be plastic.

if it's not a brand new product then it's an existing product. The iPod Touch becoming an iPhone would require plenty of new changes to make that happen, even if they did do it to be a data connected device sans the direct phone HW for making and sending calls without a headphone setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post

"price point" sounds like marketspeak for "cheap", what's wrong with simply using "price"

Price point is much exacting for a given set of known or assumed performance, features, and quality.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #67 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't quite understand all of the interest in poor people all of a sudden, because Apple has certainly not cared about poor people or about providing for that particular market for most of their history.
Nope. Steve Jobs has always catered to one of the poorest segments of our society -- education. And there are few poorer than many college students. Not only has Apple always offered sizeable discounts to the education market, and sold specialized equipment not available to the general public, but Apple often gives away equipment to particularly needy organizations.

In many ways, emerging markets can be seen similarly. They may not have much money now, but like a student the potential is promising. And just like students, you don't want your poorer customers getting used to Samsung and Android products. This happened to Apple in the 90s, after they focused solely on the wealthy, dropped their support of education, and let Windows slowly erode their market share on cheaper equipment as customers jumped ship and became heavily invested in the Microsoft ecosystem.

Yes Apple makes nice hardware, but the new battleground is the essentially the same as it always has been -- control of the ecosystem. In the 80s and 90s it was about what software was available for your computer: "I'd sure like a Mac, but I need to run WordPerfect". Today the deciding factor is not going to be Mac OS or Windows, it's going to be about iTunes, Amazon, and Google. If you've been collecting your music and apps since high school and college on a Samsung when that's all you could afford, where is the incentive to switch to the iPhone when you can afford it, if the bulk of that cost is replacing all your music and apps for the compatible platform? Even the wealthy don't just throw away a substantial investment for no reason. They didn't do it with Windows in the 90s and they're not going to do it now. Unless Apple wants to make iTunes available on the Android platform the way they made it available on Windows, then they probably should start looking at how to get poorer customers into their hardware sooner rather than later.
post #68 of 117

Assuming iSuppli 's BOM are reasonably accurate. Then the more affordable iPhone will need to cut its BOM price by $40 to maintain the same profitably while selling the phone at $499.
Further price cut could be done if Apple decide to sell the affordable iPhone all by themselves without contact, cutting the extra $100 discount when Carrier buy bulk from Apple, and sell it for $449, while the other $50 to cover up for profits to 3rd party Retail store like Best buy and possibly Carriers themselves if they agree to do so, ( And T-Mobile in US will very likely to be ). So for every 1 affordable iPhone Apple sell by themselves, that is through their Apple Retail or Apple Online Store, they could afford to have 3rd party to sell 1 as well while maintaining the same profits ratio.

Buying a phone without contract is extremely popular in the east, whether they are low end market or not. At $449 the iPhone has much higher reach then the Higher end iPhone.

Cutting $40 off BOM Cost is tough. And i continue to maintain that the affordable iPhone will be the larger screen iPhone. Where smaller equals more expensive, the larger iPhone will give Apple much more room to do cost cutting techniques where they dont have to squeeze every thing, reusing as much iPad component as possible. However even with these measures, reusing last year SoC, plastic or other material casing, same resolution display etc, i still dont see how they could achieve a $40 cost cut without cutting the LTE component. Actually being Apple they may actually do just that and only to introduce a LTE based affordable iPhone one year later. ( Hint: China still dont have LTE yet )


Edited by ksec - 4/21/13 at 2:40am
post #69 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Assuming iSuppli 's BOM are reasonably accurate. Then the more affordable iPhone will need to cut its BOM price by $40 to maintain the same profitably while selling the phone at $499.

1) Is that the same profit or profit margin.

2) Nice thoughtful post.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Reading the same fights and ideas between the multi-thousand post crowd every day gets very boring.

Not exactly mandatory, is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

But isn't that what the report button is for and not further hijacking the discussion by pointing it out? That is what bothered me, if you see a post that breaks the rules report it and move on with the discussion.

What is the purpose of that button and where do you think it links to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128 View Post

Unless Apple wants to make iTunes available on the Android platform the way they made it available on Windows, then they probably should start looking at how to get poorer customers into their hardware sooner rather than later.

Can't people using Android move their music over to a different device/platform, just like iTunes after they dropped DRM? If that's the case, talk about open platform ¡
post #71 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That is one of the disadvantages of technology and new social trends I guess. Kids are dumber today, no doubt about that. And it seems as if many of the newer generation can barely write or spell correctly, even if their lives depended upon it.

 

Fortunately, we'll all be dead by the time that this happens, but I can definitely see some sort of idiocracy type of society happening in the not too distant future. 


here's the "landmark documentary" everyone

needs to see on exactly the issues you raise:

 

The Internet - a warning from history

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycwsF77NP_A

post #72 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Since the cost of the case is a small fraction of the cost of the device, there would have to be a substantial difference in functionality between the "cheap" and the "premium" iPhone.

I seem to remember that the machined aluminum case of the iPad mini cost as much as the display, about $35. A similar costliness might br true of the iPhone 5 and the touch, when you get done with all the fitting and handling details pertaining to a variable metal part that has to be beveled, anodized, textured, etc.

By comparison, a molded plastic part is always the same and costs pennies, I would think. Radio transparency saves on some more engineering and assembly.
post #73 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by a2gsg View Post

The Internet - a warning from history

Too funny!
post #74 of 117
Daniel,

APPLE NEED A LOW PRICE MODEL FOR THE ASIA. PERIOD.

I have been running a small Apple Products related shop in Colombo suburbs in Sri Lanka and have quite a bit of experience on how our markets behave.

1. As anywhere else our mobile market is very active and lucrative business right now.

2. We have five GSM operators (Dialog GSM, Mobitel, Etisalat, Hutch, Airtel) very competitive and few have repeatedly tried a subsidized model without any form of success. Subsidized phones with contracts CANNOT be sold here even the phone is FREE. But contract free, top-up,
SIM swappable phones sell like hot cakes. We are pre-paid market.

3. At the market price today (20 APR 2013) cheapest new iPhone 5 costs you Rs.100,000/- or 794USD here. Whatever brand recognition or hype Apple has, you can not convince many persons to spend that kind of money on a phone even if they have money unless he or she is an Apple fanatic. LKR 1LAK is a mind barrier even for the people who drives 100,000/- USD cars. Here most business men, doctors, lawyers who used to carry iPhones now carry the latest Galaxy's, only celebrities and few other carry the latest iPhones.

4. Walk in to any phone shop, they have but condemn Chinese Androids and recommend Samsung Galaxy over it. No Apple. And the cheapest piece of Samsung Android shit sells as Galaxy Y (Android 2.3) for Rs. 15,000/- or 110USD a sweet package. Roughly a monthly wage of young worker. An Apple can easily sell as double as that around 250-300USD model. I think 3GS can be made at that price.

5. On contrast I had been selling enough iPhones to grow my business last two years which are consists of refurbished iPhone 3GS to 4S priced below 750USD mark. I have been selling 3GS quite well till last year, for around Rs. 30,000/- or 230USD a unit. The issue here is with iOS 6.0 baseband corruption renders iPhone unlocking near impossible now and the Maps fiasco make it worse. No new 3GS/4 or 4S (factory Unlocked or not) can be obtained from the market easily to sell here either. So last six months Apple advocate me and my company has to start offering Androids without any other solution left for us to survive.

6. Say for Chinese, locals have bad perception, but say Samsung, it is now well renowned or portrayed as the highest profile brand like SONY used to be and riding the high waves here, no one knows or cares they copied Apple, it is highly irrelavent and all they want to go online (Facebook) and play games on their phones, browse on their tablets. Samsung is the new Apple for that here, I guess this is exactly the way Indian market is heating up.

7. iOS 6.0 update brought few real surprise for Apple die hard here, Google Maps always work near perfect here, any darn corner of the street name can be looked upon. Apple crowd here was pretty used to it and now Apple Maps killed the chance even to search the city I live in, where an Apple shop is available. Imagine?

8. Samsung and carrier backed Android marketing is in full SWING here for the last two years, So Apple brand name is never heard of for new breed of people who look at my iPad units and ask, what is this tab? Is it Chinese? Don't you have Galaxies? what the heck?

So Daniel, make sure Apple hear these, any market is for Apple is a market for Apple, and killing it for whatever ignorance they have with that 150B of cash pile is a shame for the Steve's name, the greatest marketeer of our time.

Someone has nicely put,
Apple don't make junk products. It follows that there are 2 ways they might move forward from here: They can surely figure out a way.

(1) They figure out how to make a low-cost iPhone that's not junk
(2) They just can't figure it out so can make plastic 3GS (iOS 6 device) and market it aggressively.
post #75 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Is that the same profit or profit margin.

2) Nice thoughtful post.

 

Same Profit Margin. Or To be precise I should say same level of Profits Margin. In reality it will be slightly lower profit margin  ( since the bottom line and overhead cost will eat into the affordable iPhone line ). But it should be very very small and insignificant in the grand view of things.  

post #76 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The mini isn't branded a BMW.
Do any of the other cars cost $20000?

E.g. BMW 135is Convertible starting price is $47,950.

post #77 of 117
I think the question of a low cost iPhone is probably satisfied by the use of the older model. The real issue is why they want to do this and that's surely to get people into the ecosystem so they can carry on buying from App Store and also other apple products. Apple will undoubtedly know the lifetime value of a new customer and that will determine their positioning of a new phone.

I think a more interesting issue is that of larger screen sizes. I know my use of the iPhone has changed since it was first introduced. I now only really use it for telephone and texting and all the other stuff I used to do (web etc.) is now done on the iPad. Is there a market for people who want to use a single device for everything? A larger screen iPhone could satisfy that, as is being shown by Samsung with some of their phablets.

So let's wait and see what they come up with!
post #78 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The mini isn't branded a BMW.
Do any of the other cars cost $20000?

Mercedes A 180 (the basic model) costs in Germany $31.750.

post #79 of 117
Ah... Americans.

The Sri Lankan dude made several great points, and his ability to write in English in no way hindered his eloquence in my book.

Although anecdotal, this is the main reason Apple need a low-cost iPhone. American Students? American Children? Who gives a flying... ...the perception of Apple in the rest of the world is arguably more important than any "cheap" American market. Apple have been focussing on China, but they seem to have not realised the rest of Asia's view of China, especially compared to South Korea. There are some very interesting points in his post, if we try to read it without judgement, we might learn something.
post #80 of 117
Almost 140 billion in the bank.

Apple can't afford to do anything.

1frown.gif
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