or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › ACLU: Android fragmentation creates privacy risk
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

ACLU: Android fragmentation creates privacy risk - Page 2

post #41 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

This is nothing compared to what's happening in the iPad Mini camp!

http://verynicewebsite.net/2013/04/spot-the-error/

That may be legit. It should not have been zero as it is components. Saying orders were 20 to 30 percent less than the initial build ramp for the mini is not bad at all. Actually sounds really good.
post #42 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Apple has its own set of problems: if you have e.g. an iPhone 3G with the most up-to-date version of Facebook or Skype on it that phone can run and you need to reset it for any reason, you can't ever install these apps anymore because iTunes updates always to the latest versions which can't be installed anymore (minimum OS version too high) and the backups don't back up apps.

So users lose functionality they once had and are either forced to buy newer hardware or stick with a device that has less functionality than before the reset.


Apple doesn't sell the 3GS anymore and the vast majority of iPhones are on iOS 6. In addition, if you have the 3GS, don't upgrade the apps in iTunes. In addition, developers are told they need to support ios version N and N-1.

That's not really the issue. The issue is, that Apple's system is either broken, or intentionally set up such that minor mistakes require you to buy new hardware if you want to retain the same functionality.

One solution would be if iTunes would analyse what iOS devices are synced with a particular computer, and if it would not suggest to update apps in the iTunes library beyond the point where they will be workable on the devices synced. Another solution would be if iTunes could download from that AppStore certain milestone releases of software that are the newest releases still working on certain versions of iOS.

There are now many apps that only support iOS6. My iPhone is running iOS6, my (original) iPad is forever stuck at iOS5. Obviously I want the newest versions of the apps on my iPhone, so my iTunes library automatically suggests, (and I download) the newest versions, such as to install them on my iPhone.
If for any reason I need to reset my iPad, I'll be up the creek without a paddle, because there's no way for me to download the older versions of these apps again which are now installed on my iPad. After a reset, my iPad would be half the device it is now, and I would be forced to buy a new device.

Greenpeace should look at the forced resource wasted through planned obsolescence rather than make bogus claims about e.g. Apple's data centers.

A friend of mine got someone's old iPhone 3G. Had Skype and Facebook on it. To get the phone unlocked through AT&T required a reset of the device. But by now, these versions of Skype and Facebook that run on iOS 4.2.1 are no longer downloadable. So now the phone is unlocked, and Facebook and Skype are gone forever. Forced hardware upgrade. Skype and Facebook are "free" apps, but there are for purchase apps where there's the same issue. So not only is your device functionally downgraded through the reset, you're also deprived of software for which you actually did pay money for, unless you buy new hardware.

Totally uncool, and basically class-action lawsuit material. Sort of like you buy a car, but if you have to reset the engine management computer more than two years after you bought the car, the electrical windows stop working, and if you want a car with windows you can open, you have to buy a new model.

There's no technical reason that Apple couldn't maintain a database of the highest version of iOS each device can digest, and then retain versions of apps for download for these cut-off releases. Since Apple musters out groups of devices, this isn't such a big deal. Even the original iPhone can run 4.2.1. So iOS 4.2.1 would be one such cut-off release. The next cut-off release is 5.1.1 for e.g. the original iPad. 
So all Apple would have to do, is to keep available for download the newest version of apps that were available for these cut-off versions, provided it did exist. Obviously I'm not saying developers should retain backwards compatibility forever, or should back-port apps. But Apple should keep older versions available for download for older devices if such software at some point was available in the past.

Try deleting apps on your computer (the ipa files where iTunes stores your library) and then sync your iPad. It should sync the apps to your computer (sync not backup). Then copy the ipa files elsewhere to back them up. Since you can re-download the latest apps at any time, no need to have iTunes keeping those up to date.
post #43 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


Can you show me a phone still sold with gingerbread in America? I searched and couldn't find one.

 

Didn't you post this crap way back?

 

- T-Mobile is selling the Prism and myTouch with Gingerbread.

- Sprint has the Kyocera Milano and ZTE Fury with Gingerbread.

- AT&T has the Sharp FX PLUS (running 2.2) and Pantech Pocket running Gingerbread.

 

Gee, that's 6 phones and I didn't even look at every model they sold. I also never bothered to look at the numerous smaller carriers or regional carriers, but I'd bet they have lots as well.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #44 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

...so let's use the golden rule and not insult the Google Play store without justification.

There is a Golden Rule not to insult the Google Play store? 1confused.gif
Quote:
Your insults to me directly contradict your moderator function (your edit of my response, on the other hand, was, in fact, in the service of moderation, so to that I have no objection.)

I'm not a mod! I also didn't edit your post.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #45 of 97

Unfortunately Google just can't twist the arm of every manufacturer to release patches and version upgrades.  To blame fragmentation for malware and other security risks seems like a stretch.

post #46 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Yes, you did, by gross overreaction. Even so, you did not actually acknowledge that my point was valid -- a single example of malware does not prove that the whole ecosystem is contaminated. In fact, if you do the google search I had suggested in my post you will see that one of the first couple of hits points to some expert opinion that iOS has less malware even though it has MORE vulnerabilities. Does that mean iOS is doomed? Neither of us believes that, so let's use the golden rule and not insult the Google Play store without justification. Your insults to me directly contradict your moderator function (your edit of my response, on the other hand, was, in fact, in the service of moderation, so to that I have no objection.)

Isn't one of the main selling points of Android it's "openness" part of which is the ability to side load applications from a variety of sources outside the walled garden of Google's play store?

BAM!

An instant and massive increase in vulnerabilities.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #47 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I agree with the second statement, but not the first. A counterexample (already mentioned by someone) is Windows: windows updates independently of which white box vendor you got your machine from. There is no obvious reason why Google could not have similar licensing, except one: it does not WANT to be viewed as responsible for whatever junk some third tier chinese vendor makes (the responsibility would greatly increase its support costs), while the first tier vendors (Samsung, HTC) have enough resources to support their own devices.

 

I concur, about not having the resources (or motivation) to police every single Android implementation.  It is not accurate to compare Android and Windows, because one can be modified by the manufacturer and the other one cannot.  One is provided for free, the other is sold.  Love it or hate it, this is the nature of the beast.  I guess they could go into the licensing business but then the rest of the model falls apart.

post #48 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


Isn't one of the main selling points of Android it's "openness" part of which is the ability to side load applications from a variety of sources outside the walled garden of Google's play store?

BAM!

An instant and massive increase in vulnerabilities.

 

Yes, more freedom equals more potential hazards.  The problem is most people don't understand that.

post #49 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Didn't you post this crap way back?

- T-Mobile is selling the Prism and myTouch with Gingerbread.
- Sprint has the Kyocera Milano and ZTE Fury with Gingerbread.
- AT&T has the Sharp FX PLUS (running 2.2) and Pantech Pocket running Gingerbread.

Gee, that's 6 phones and I didn't even look at every model they sold. I also never bothered to look at the numerous smaller carriers or regional carriers, but I'd bet they have lots as well.

No I don't think I did. I think you're confusing me with someone else although I do remember the thread so I could have been involved. Anyway thank you for informing me. Now I know!
post #50 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm not a mod!

Still, you get points!
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
How to enter the Apple logo  on iOS:
/Settings/Keyboard/Shortcut and paste in  which you copied from an email draft or a note. Screendump
Reply
post #51 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I completely agree that ACLU seems to be reaching. They have plenty of actual civil liberty infractions to worry about these days. As for Android, it is hard to understand how Google managed to design the android world so poorly. You would think that they would have licensed the thing in such a way that anything claiming to run android would have top be up to date.

Don't worry. What goes around does really get around. Not establishing basic software/hardware restrictions is slowly creeping up on them. Unfortunately for Google/Android, it is a growing issue. By growing I mean this...

Google is treating Android like one of the old fashioned trains. Throw coal in the engine and it goes faster. Agree?..

The problem is that Google is forgetting that all of the passengers do not ride in the engine. They're in the cars behind the engine. Throw too much coal into the engine and the hitches give, leaving most of the passengers behind.

If you only care about how fast the engine goes, and figure the passengers will keep up because they have to, there isn't really much hope for the company running the engines.

I don't care either way. Just saying...
post #52 of 97

Perhaps  ACLU would be smarter if  they considered the fact that android itself is Malware- it's Google's spyware.

No amount of android updating will get around this, android is built to be spyware !

    1oyvey.gif

post #53 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Yes, you did, by gross overreaction. Even so, you did not actually acknowledge that my point was valid -- a single example of malware does not prove that the whole ecosystem is contaminated. In fact, if you do the google search I had suggested in my post you will see that one of the first couple of hits points to some expert opinion that iOS has less malware even though it has MORE vulnerabilities. Does that mean iOS is doomed? Neither of us believes that, so let's use the golden rule and not insult the Google Play store without justification. Your insults to me directly contradict your moderator function (your edit of my response, on the other hand, was, in fact, in the service of moderation, so to that I have no objection.)

I enjoyed those last few sentences. ...a LOT! Lol.

Sol is not a moderator, but he is a brilliant man. He may be brilliant enough to edit your post, but I really don't think he would consider it worth the effort...

Don't flatter yourself! Lol!!!

I'm curious. Do you really get paid for your posts? I find that concept very intriguing. I would love to understand though.

If you do get paid, you apparently have a high quota. ...and lots of responses! :o)
post #54 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshA View Post

Perhaps  ACLU would be smarter if  they considered the fact that android itself is Malware- it's Google's spyware.
No amount of android updating will get around this, android is built to be spyware !
    1oyvey.gif

Just catching on Josh? I'll give ya a hint. ...shhhhh! It's not just Android! LOL!
post #55 of 97

Android is open and is made by Google nothing more than to gain more control at the mobile internet space for their own interest; more data, advertisements and therefore more opportunities for their business.  Google's job is to give people treats like giving candies to children, it doesn't have to be tasty as long as it is appealing to woo people.  Contrary to popular belief, Google services are not free, Google makes money through advertisements, basically by us using their services.  We are their product.  People should know what they're getting before buying or using a service, it's about preference, if the pros and cons are okay to you then I don't see any problem, but don't just go point a finger at Google, because it is a choice.

post #56 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The 1st one (although I actually think that happened much earlier) in late 2012 compared to a plethora of data stealing apps from Google Play nee Android Market from the start. That's the problem with trolls: no concept of gradation, it's either all or nothing. They are to excellent what Prosopagnosianists are to faces.

To be fair Soli there's much higher profile examples of "iOS malware" if you're applying the same definition some security companies use to both Android and iOS.

 

Millions of Apple users were infected with malware/spyware just a few months ago and most here are probably aware of it...

 

by using Path which was collecting their contact information without permission. It was hardly the only app to do so either with a list of several more published on various blog sites. That's considered malware and included in Android statistics about it when reported by anti-virus companies. Personally I'd suspect that apps that collect personal information without the permission of the user accounts for the majority of malware found. I don't see it reported as such when iOS malware statistics are published tho, and I don't know why.

 

 

McAfee:
Mobile Malware Defined
We classify an app as containing malware if it does one or more of the following:
• Sends your handset or personal information to someone else without your permission
• Spys on and records your activity (browsing history, messages, videos played)
• Sends premium rate SMS messages to sell ringtones, downloads, or subscription data services
• Commits click fraud
• Exploits a vulnerability or software bug on your device to cause it to do something you aren’t expecting 
(often through downloading other malware)
• Roots your device to give an attacker control of it
• Installs a backdoor or turn your device into a bot client, often collecting personal information as a 
side benefit
• Installs a hacking tool that allows the attacker to control your device
• Downloads a secondary piece of malicious code from a website
• Is destructive to your device or its data
• Sends spam messages via SMS from your device
 
Before anyone jumps in to say I'm claiming iOS and Android are just as bad, I am not. I don't think I've seen any premium-SMS scams mentioned on iOS like there has been on Android, even thru the official Play Store! With less direct control exerted over the Android appstores they're certain to harbor more REAL malware, tho whether the average user would ever see it is highly unlikely outside of Russia and China. 
 
Instead I'm highlighting what the security companies include in their malware statistics, at least when mentioning Android, and how it affects the perception of the two platforms. If it's not really legitimate to call an app like Path malware if it's in the App Store how does it suddenly morph into malware if it's on Google Play? The anti-virus companies appear to think it does.
 
Perhaps they should include another category, distributed by the security companies themselves: Scareware.

Edited by Gatorguy - 4/21/13 at 5:38am
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #57 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

It is odd they did not name Google, HTC, Samsung, LG and Sony as well. This is primarily the fault of Google that rushed the design of Android so they did not get the ability to update Android as needed.  For proof, look to MS and Windows that shows it is very possible to design a component based OS supplied by multiple hardware vendors and provide centralized updates. Google simply took the cheap and easy way out and never considered updates as part of the feature set of Android.

True but I can't help but be amused by the fact in the MS world, not only don't many want to upgrade, they actually buy newer hardware and voluntarily down grade ... But that's another story 1smile.gif
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #58 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


Can you show me a phone still sold with gingerbread in America? I searched and couldn't find one.

You didn't search very hard. Here:

http://www.shopstraighttalk.com/bpdirect/straighttalk/Start.do?action=view&zip=16601&locale=en&siteType=&market=GSM5SPRCO&gotoPhonelist=true

 

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/android-phones/

 

http://www.boostmobile.com/shop/phones/#/sort_feature/view_grid/type_android/

 

ALL Straight Talk Android phones are shipping with nothing newer than 2.3, and one is even sold with 2.2. Virgin and Boost offer many with 4.0+, but still sell 2.3. That's just a quick search I did. 

 

The worst part is, Straight Talk has openly said on their Facebook page that none of these phones will EVER get an OS update. What's on it when you buy it is what you'll be stuck with, period (unless you want to hack it). 


Edited by RedGeminiPA - 4/21/13 at 7:21am
post #59 of 97

The average user doesn't care about updates sadly enough.

post #60 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Totally not comparable. With PalmOS you download the apps from anywhere, they don't have DRM other than maybe a license key, and you have to manage the apps yourself. Even if you deleted the apps, you can get the app from someone else, enter your license key after reinstalling it, and you're good to go. And of course, you still should have your original download, download link, or could ask the app vendor to resend you the version. None of that works with iOS apps, because it's AppStore or nothing (unless it's a jail-broken device, and even then that would only work if you were to use pirated apps or apps which someone bought and someone removed the DRM from for future use on other devices by people who bought them and are in a pickle)

With the AppStore model, there is no way to re-download the app you had, and the entire app management is automated by iTunes, so unless you're a power user, it's difficult to go back, even if you do have a backup somewhere. Also, even if someone else has the app, you can't use it on your device, because of the DRM system. So you're totally stuck, while you're not stuck at all in the Palm example.

This isn't about devices eventually not being upgraded, this is about devices LOSING functionality because of how the AppStore model ratchets versions upwards, even for devices that can't follow the new version.
Are you friking totally tone deaf? You totally missed the point that your whole premise is pure BS! You can in fact backup your apps! And its up to developers, as they have stated here, that are responsible for compatibility. So is the whole app ecosystem supposed to come to a screaching halt because you have an older device? And just as someone else pointed out, you would be the first to complain when those apps ran slow on your device. So grow up, get a job, and get yourself a new ipad and iphone. A 3G you are complaining about, really?
post #61 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Is this a joke?  Nexus branded devices (aka. the 'pure' Google devices) get updated to every new OS version when it's released.  

It's only the OEM modded models that have delayed OS updates...  

I never specified Nexus branded devices (though how well was the Nexus One supported?) but the designer of the OS that never took updates into design consideration.
post #62 of 97
Originally Posted by 3Eleven View Post
The average user doesn't care about updates sadly enough.

 

In the last five years that has drastically changed, at least with Apple products.

 

I remember a time when people were still using 1.1 on their iPod touches after the launch of iPhone OS 3. "Oh, I can't get 'apps'; I need a newer iPod." And then I just blow their minds…

 

Now, people just do updates as they come up.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #63 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

I concur, about not having the resources (or motivation) to police every single Android implementation.  It is not accurate to compare Android and Windows, because one can be modified by the manufacturer and the other one cannot.  One is provided for free, the other is sold.  Love it or hate it, this is the nature of the beast.  I guess they could go into the licensing business but then the rest of the model falls apart.

Again this is 100% wrong. There are two types of Android. The free one that has no access to many Google services and the licensed one with full access to Google services.

It was an option to Google when Google first designed Android to design in an update architecture that would be available to all the licensed versions of Android. This would have required much more thought, planning and (I suspect something Google did not have and still does not have) true OS level expertise. Getting this in place would have taken another 6 months to a year so Google took the cheap and easy path and willfully put their products ... Oops I mean users at risk by not providing easy access to updates.
post #64 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post


Again this is 100% wrong. There are two types of Android. The free one that has no access to many Google services and the licensed one with full access to Google services.

It was an option to Google when Google first designed Android to design in an update architecture that would be available to all the licensed versions of Android. This would have required much more thought, planning and (I suspect something Google did not have and still does not have) true OS level expertise. Getting this in place would have taken another 6 months to a year so Google took the cheap and easy path and willfully put their products ... Oops I mean users at risk by not providing easy access to updates.

 

It's not a matter of design but rather a matter of policy. All Google-sponsored phones (i.e. nexus) get their updates directly from Google because Google controls the entire OS on those phones. OEMs like HTC, Samsung, etc. insist on updates going through themselves because they want to test their extensive modifications such as Touchwiz and Sense against the new kernel and system libraries, and possibly apply their own patches. Carriers also want to test their own hacks. Blaming Google for not directly updating HTC or Sony devices is kind of like blaming Linus for not pushing kernel updates directly to linux users when distros maintain their own kernel patches. To address this fragmentation issue Google would have to essentially prohibit OEM modifications, but they don't seem willing to do that.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 4/21/13 at 9:11am
post #65 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

It's not a matter of design but rather a matter of policy. All Google-sponsored phones (i.e. nexus) get their updates directly from Google because Google controls the entire OS on those phones. OEMs like HTC, Samsung, etc. insist on updates going through themselves because they want to test their extensive modifications such as Touchwiz and Sense against the new kernel and system libraries, and possibly apply their own patches. Carriers also want to test their own hacks. Blaming Google for not directly updating HTC or Sony devices is kind of like blaming Linus for not pushing kernel updates directly to linux users when distros maintains their own kernel patches. To address this fragmentation issue Google would have to prohibit or severely curtail OEM modifications, but they don't seem willing to do that.

I agree with your main points about why the delay in updates (if they ever come) from vendors take so long, but it's still ultimately falls on Google for creating an system that is managed in such away to create this fragmentation in the first place. The average customer doesn't walk in to buy a cell phone with knowledge of unit sales number, vendor support states, etc. They look at Android the same way they look at Windows and that simply isn't the case when it comes to updates or app compatibility. Google knows there is a problem as they've made mention of it at least once, and I think they have even stated it will be corrected but that was years ago and it still isn't.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #66 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

And why is the ACLU getting involved? The market will take care of itself without them having to get involved.

This.

 

Markets organize automatically. People always buy the best experience they can afford, and they always value a better experience. If they aren't paying for the absolute best experience, then there are real, material reasons for that—throwing laws at people doesn't make them more wealthy.

post #67 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrlvr View Post

This.

Markets organize automatically. People always buy the best experience they can afford, and they always value a better experience. If they aren't paying for the absolute best experience, then there are real, material reasons for that—throwing laws at people doesn't make them more wealthy.

I agree that it will work itself out and that people try to buy the best assumed experience for a given price point but I'd disagree that people buy the best experience. The difference being that customers may not get the experience that was assumed — or worse, told they would get by the cell phone store rep pushing anything but the iPhone — but this too also get corrected as you can't get repeat customers or mindshare without having a product that exceeds the expectations for the majority of your customer base.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #68 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

It's not a matter of design but rather a matter of policy. All Google-sponsored phones (i.e. nexus) get their updates directly from Google because Google controls the entire OS on those phones. OEMs like HTC, Samsung, etc. insist on updates going through themselves because they want to test their extensive modifications such as Touchwiz and Sense against the new kernel and system libraries, and possibly apply their own patches. Carriers also want to test their own hacks. Blaming Google for not directly updating HTC or Sony devices is kind of like blaming Linus for not pushing kernel updates directly to linux users when distros maintain their own kernel patches. To address this fragmentation issue Google would have to essentially prohibit OEM modifications, but they don't seem willing to do that.

No it is 100% a mater of design. The poor design drove the policy.
post #69 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Oh, stop it. There is iOS malware too (just google for it), here is one example:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2012/07/06/first-ios-malware-hits-app-store/
The kick is, there is an order or two of magnitude higher amount on the Google Play Store compared to the App Store. Likewise, Google has had to execute the remote delete many many many times compared to Apple's 0 times.
post #70 of 97

There are flaws in Android's openness that allow the carriers to alter the OS to their handsets.  Then there are flaws with iOS where there's really only one new form factor a year to choose from. People should be informed and understand that weaknesses of the platforms they choose.  I have an iPhone and understand the limits it has but gladly trade that for the flaws I see in Android.  Android fans see it differently and that's their business; more power to them.

post #71 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Why don't you back this up with actual data?

Stop wasting everyone's time. This subject has been brought up countless times in every tech publication for years and discussed in detail by everyone.

If you don't know how to use Google for a few seconds to find the reams of info on this subject, then it's not even worth the effort explaining it to you.

Responding to actual and obvious facts with "back up with actual data" just means you have zero argument.
post #72 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

What? No "death to infidels"? You must be in the wrong place...

"That's the problem with trolls: no concept of gradation, it's either all or nothing."

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #73 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post

You didn't search very hard. Here:
http://www.shopstraighttalk.com/bpdirect/straighttalk/Start.do?action=view&zip=16601&locale=en&siteType=&market=GSM5SPRCO&gotoPhonelist=true

http://www.virginmobileusa.com/shop/cell-phones/android-phones/

http://www.boostmobile.com/shop/phones/#/sort_feature/view_grid/type_android/

ALL Straight Talk Android phones are shipping with nothing newer than 2.3, and one is even sold with 2.2. Virgin and Boost offer many with 4.0+, but still sell 2.3. That's just a quick search I did. 

The worst part is, Straight Talk has openly said on their Facebook page that none of these phones will EVER get an OS update. What's on it when you buy it is what you'll be stuck with, period (unless you want to hack it). 

Shame on them! I only searched the major carriers.
post #74 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Shame on them! I only searched the major carriers.

No one is going to stop them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

It is far from clear that the design is "poor". The vendors want the flexibility to add their own hacks, and one of the problems with Windows Phone is that MSFT has (or is perceived as having) too much control of the OS. Since Google's goal was maximal market penetration, what they did was probably the right thing. I should also note that it seems fairly clear that the roots of Android were defensive: Google's principals grew up in the era of the Microsoft monopoly, which stifled innovation, and they wanted to make sure that this did not happen with the mobile market (at the time Google bought Android there was no iPhone, and MSFT's horrid windows phone was dominant, so there was a good chance that MSFT would dominate in mobile, but obviously an Apple monopoly is just as bad in the long run). I am sure that Google might do things differently if they were starting now, though I am not sure HOW differently.

Was Win mobile dominant? I seem to remember more blackberries. Apple never had the mobile OS lead. An Android monopoly would be worse than anything.
post #75 of 97

Again, AppleInsider shows a misguided, misleading title.

 

 

The title should be "Telcos expose their users to privacy risk".  Androidness is unrelated, since the problem lies with having old, unupdated versiosn running because the telcos don't care.

 

I'll still run an iPhone because I prefer the ease of use/excellence/attention to details, but Android is a good system, with a safe (Linux) foundation, and it's pretty irritating to see AppleInsider again title "Android fragmentation evil whatevah".

 

 

I'll tell you a secret, AppleInsider. An iPhone (original) with the original OS is also running security risks. No updates --> DANGER. Blame the telcos, not Android.
 

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #76 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


No one is going to stop them.
Was Win mobile dominant? I seem to remember more blackberries. Apple never had the mobile OS lead. An Android monopoly would be worse than anything.


An "Android monopoly" doesn't mean anything, since Android is open-source. Apple could decide tomorrow to sell an Android-running iPhone. Wouldn't be exactly wise, though. What would really be interesting would be to see someone with heavyweight manufacturing ability (Samsung or Nokia?) fork Android in a compatible way for a while, so that Google becomes one provider among many...

 

Anyway, in my opinion, neither iPhone or Android is what should have been. OpenMoko and Maemo were the future, too bad economic reality caught up with them I wonder if Ubuntuphone (or whatever it is called) will be able to grow big now?

 

As to "more BlackBerries", I disagree. In the professional world of smart guys in expensive suits pretending to do real work, maybe, but in the real professional world of guys delivering stuff, repairing electrical towers, fixing network cables etc, Windows CE was the norm (and sadly, still is). It's slowly changing, but I can confirm having set up 60 of them two weeks ago for a customer who needed a system. Ugly Windows CE machines manufactured in Taiwan, running .Net, because that's "professional". Real companies still trust .Net more than they trust Objective-C, or web-based stuff (which actually may mean .Net, often).

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #77 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

Again, AppleInsider shows a misguided, misleading title.

The title should be "Telcos expose their users to privacy risk".

Based on your comment you've inferred that it's because of telcos iOS gets updated. That surely isn't the case. Apple updates their OS on their devices, typically all at the same time while supporting about 3 years of product releases. So does it really make sense to blame the telcos and let the vendors go free on supporting updates? I certainly don't think so. I also don't think it's fair to let Google off scott free for creating an unsafe environment. It would be like me opening a shop that isn't staffed and expecting customers abide by an honour system where they put money into the register themselves. Would you really excuse me from blame when people don't pay for the merchandise or steal what money some people did pay? Of course you wouldn't so why not blame Google for their bad decisions?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #78 of 97

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this article and the significance of the numbers.  Let me point out just one data point:

 

4.2.1 came out in November of last year.  That was 5 months ago. 

4.2.2 came out in February this year.  That was 2 months ago.

 

Only 2% of Android devices have upgraded to either 4.2.1 or 4.2.2. 

 

The ACLU is getting involved here because these updates include bug fixes that improve the security of the devices.  The lack of these updates means the devices are prone to privacy abuses by scammers as well as governments.

 

So it's not just the major releases that are a problem, although that sucks for consumers, it's about security and privacy issues regarding the patches.

 

Think of it this way....

 

How would you feel if... Apple found bugs that exposed you to security and privacy issues on the iPhone 5 that you purchased in September.  And then, they published these bugs and released an update in November that only a tiny fraction of us were eligible for, and then did that same thing a few months later that even a smaller subset would be eligible for.  And had a history of doing this over and over again as if it was the expected routine.

post #79 of 97
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

An iPhone (original) with the original OS is also running security risks.

 

That's a dangerous statement to make without further conditions.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #80 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Why don't you back this up with actual data?
What planet are you living on? Where is your actual data for the total FUD you are spewing?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › ACLU: Android fragmentation creates privacy risk