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Apple CEO hints bigger iPhone screen may come when 'trade-offs' can be avoided - Page 3

post #81 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

... demeanor … demeanor...

 

Now you've done it… 

 

The second one was just showing off and causing trouble though… admit it!

post #82 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Can someone give me an example of a phone with a great 4.5+ screen that sells on the millions of units?

 

 

*crickets

post #83 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Really? The screens HTC uses are subpar?

 

No. Not really "sub par", but then neither are the prices. And HTC is rocketing toward bankruptcy. They just aren't selling enough of even their best phablet, the One.

 

I actually like the HTC One. Let me qualify that… I like how it LOOKS… not sure about the battery life, the weight, the 'heft'… definitely not a fan of Android or their "marketplace"...

 

Still, I hope HTC can hang on. They have potential.

 

To say that Apple COULD make a phone like the One and it'd turn the market on its head might be true… one day… maybe… once Apple can satisfy ALL of Apple's very high watermark criteria first (and I'll tell you this, WE who buy into Apple in part because of that high standard hope they NEVER waver on this point)…  Once Apple decides they've removed enough "trade-offs" to produce a larger screen device (larger than the iPhone, smaller than the iPad Mini) what they produce will indeed be a market killer.

 

For whatever reason, Apple feels it isn't "time" yet… 

 

I for one, will not argue. Carry on...

post #84 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyDude View Post

A stock buy back, especially of that magnitude, only further proves the point that Apple is on the defensive and trying to boost failing market capitalization. Instead of investing their large sums of cash into new technology that could help inflate stock prices through tech innovation, they are having to buy stock off the market to inflate prices. There have been several articles on this, here's one detailing what the circumstances surrounding Apple were back when the stock began to tumble:

 

http://www.economist.com/news/business/21570751-worlds-most-valuable-firm-may-be-past-its-prime-has-apple-peaked

 

 

 

Many analysts and users would disagree with you that Apple has "never stopped being" the industry leader. I've seen TONS of articles over the last several months, like this one:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnshaughnessy/2013/04/12/these-3-game-changers-define-the-apple-vs-samsung-battle/

 

constantly talking about how Apple has stagnated and allowed companies like Samsung to catch up and even surpass them. You might want to believe, personally, that Apple is still commanding the market, but you would be foolish to think they haven't lost a substantial amount of grip they had on it. 

 

And how does a nearly $300 Billion loss have anything to do with quality of products? Really? The market is losing faith in Apple, analysts and traders are selling on the company, and the reaction you are seeing via falling stock prices is a result of poor reception to Apple's technology strategy. Do you honestly think that if Apple was still producing the best, highest quality, and market leading technology that their stock would fall 42% in 7 months?

 

Thanks for the classy post, something I'd expect from a forum moderator. You really promote a sense of open discussion and thought around these parts. Or would you rather have me bury my face in my iPhone, get back in line and quit thinking about what this company that I've bought into for almost 4 years can and should do better? It's ok, Apple will keep plodding along, artificially boosting itself by spending its own money on buying back stock instead of going back to the drawing board and figuring out what made it so damn successful for 5 years that no company could touch it.

 

Oh, that's just TS… he doesn't cater to BS posts much...

 

You've made a ton of false narrative-based declarations in the few posts you've made here. Mostly, you've convinced me pretty handily that you work for Samsung, or one of their 'partners'… 

 

You make much of Apple's "lack of innovation", which always seems to be the meme in between Apple product cycles. Yay, you think, we have a few 'free months' of 'undermining Apple's innovator creds' before they launch another market-dominating beast our way...

 

Except, I thought the iPad Mini was a natural step in the product evolution… the Retina Display iPad was a huge LEAP… sorry, but you don't get to say that the retina iPad isn't "innovating". What it takes to make that, keep the battery life, the smooth graphics, and so on… something they managed to do, with only a SLIGHT tradeoff in weight and thickness...

 

Samsung can only dream of that kind of innovation and build-quality. The same, if their CEO's recent ruminations about "product quality" are to be believed, is true of the iPhone 4S & 5. 

 

You also make much of the stock "tumbling", while ignoring all the other measures that said, clearly, that the stock price was in every way at odds with the company's performance, both in sales, product mix and revenues/profits.

 

YET ANOTHER quarter of Record Revenues… that alone should silence you.

 

Never mind the stock price.

 

Never mind the dip in "margin".

 

Never mind what YOU think is best.

 

Apple is still breaking records every…single… quarter.

 

That's all that matters. That, and the fact that their products are among the strongest in the market. Period. 

 

You can't argue that. The consumer market agrees. Why are you wasting our bandwidth with this paid-PR hooey?

post #85 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Who gives a frick? More customers say otherwise.


Quadra, hit him with your JD Power & Associates copy/paste post, if you please.

 

Maybe you can tell me what the market cap has to do with products first. Is Apple in the stocks business? Do they create stocks and sell them to other companies? 

 

Yes. Because they are. As all surveys and accolades show. 

 

Why do you think the stock price has anything to do with anything? Does Amazon produce the "best, highest quality market leading products" because their stock was rising to ludicrous levels? Remember their P/E before they posted a quarterly loss?

 

I got to 'analysts', myself. lol.gif That's usually the killer.

 

I stopped a few posts back when he started listing his 'Apple products'

 

1rolleyes.gif

post #86 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

The LCD screens in the 'jumbo' HTC phones of today pumping out 1920x1080 at a true 440+ ppi (the One is an insane 468ppi) made in part by the same suppliers as the iPhone screens essentially negates his entire point. Unless he's talking form factor, battery life, or some other screen related piece that's not the screen itself, I'm at a loss. The actual LCD tech is there, today. Samsung's AMOLED panels are still pure saturated trash. 

 

 

Companies like HTC and Samsung came out with LTE phones about a year before Apple. People were hollering at Apple that it was falling behind the times. Yet, those phones had to use two chips to get LTE to work. The battery life was horrendous. Apple waited until the LTE chip technology improved and it could provide the same battery life as the previous phone. I do not know about the HTC One because it is not out yet, however, Apple also has to be able to get enough supplies to produce what ever device it manufacturers in a large quantity. 

 

 

I write Tim Cook regularly asking for a larger iPhone. I think Apple can support three sizes when it works out the technology. 

post #87 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

 

*crickets

 

Oh, sorry, didn't see that. Whenever pedro starts typing, I quickly move along to the next post while trying not to make eye contact.

post #88 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

I actually like the HTC One. Let me qualify that… I like how it LOOKS… 

 

 

What is not to like, as it was clearly inspired by the iPhone 5. 

post #89 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyDude View Post

It's become reality that Tim Cook and Apple have completely lost touch with the market and what consumers want. This idea that a 5" display cannot be created with high specs and standards is insane, several devices currently have 4.7-5"+ displays that have even better specs and quality than the iPhone. 

 

 

I'd love to know what phones you are talking about. Please don't list any Samsung products. Sure the screens look pretty good, and they are bigger if that is your thing, but when you pick the phone up it feels cheap. The build quality of the iPhone is phenomenal.  My family still has an original four year old 3GS in use.   Most Samsung products are cheaply made.  If I couldn't use an iPhone, I'd have to go with Window on a Nokia handset. At least Nokia knows how to make a phone. 

post #90 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

[...] (larger than the iPhone, smaller than the iPad Mini) 

 

WHY do people keep comparing iPhones and iPads?! The iPad is not a phone! The existence of the iPad has zero zilch nada SQUAT relevance to those who want a PHONE with a larger screen!

 

Speaking of product differences, I was actually considering an Air for my portable needs instead of an iPad because I prefer a conventional keyboard to typing on a touchscreen and the old clamshell design fits my particular use very well, but at the last minute I realized -- it's not a cellular device! It's WiFi or nothing, which isn't going to do me much good on the train.

 

I'd really like to see the ultra-portable laptop get a cellular data option like the similarly-used iPad.

post #91 of 139

I am still surprised, how people are trying to interpret every single word from TC to make up their own versions and be smarter. I am not fan of TC at all, but you will have to accept what he says. he is no SJ and he is trying to make us realize that.

 

Apple has to think about everything and everybody that uses their equipment. Their users are also developers. I can tell you from first hand, how shitty is development for various Android devices with different screen sizes and resolutions.

 

Sure, Apple could release an iPhone 6 with larger display, that would utilize screen with bigger size and inches to match exactly 2x the content of current iPhone 5, but let me somebody explain, what kind of CPU and GPU are we talking then about? What kind of battery? How thin should the casing be, solid enough not to break front glass by twisting? What kind of weight are we talking about?

 

So, when all this things can be put on satisfactory level, then we shall see iPhone with 5" or so screen. Until then, I will still loot at my development Samsung phone, which is slow with slow OS, which breaks front glass by twisting, which has shitty battery life, to mention just few obvious lacks. I wouldn't even think to compare windows-like Android OS to iOS. It's blasphemy..

post #92 of 139
I just find it hard to believe that Apple (and their LCD manufacturing partners) had no trouble developing beautiful 3.5" 3:2 screens...

and 4" 16:9 screens...

But they're stumped at making 4.5" 16:9 screens...
post #93 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I just find it hard to believe that Apple (and their LCD manufacturing partners) had no trouble developing beautiful 3.5" 3:2 screens...

and 4" 16:9 screens...

But they're stumped at making 4.5" 16:9 screens...

Where is stated they don't know how to make display larger than 4" and less than 7.85"?

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post #94 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Where is stated they don't know how to make display larger than 4" and less than 7.85"?

It's not "stated" anywhere.

But if they can do it... they're taking their sweet time bringing it to market.

We're now patiently waiting for the 7th iPhone to be released later this year... and I'm guessing it will be another 4-incher...

Sad panda...
post #95 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


It's not "stated" anywhere.

But if they can do it... they're taking their sweet time bringing it to market.

We're now patiently waiting for the 7th iPhone to be released later this year... and I'm guessing it will be another 4-incher...

Sad panda...

 

Read my post above: make screen and utilize it satisfactory are 2 very different things...

post #96 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by poksi View Post

Read my post above: make screen and utilize it satisfactory are 2 very different things...

Correct... and that's what I meant.

Apparently Apple can't do it successfully.

They figured out all the other screens... but a new larger screen has them stumped.
post #97 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I just find it hard to believe that Apple (and their LCD manufacturing partners) had no trouble developing beautiful 3.5" 3:2 screens...

and 4" 16:9 screens...

But they're stumped at making 4.5" 16:9 screens...

 

Would it just be adding to the wish fragmentation to suggest that I think 3:2 is actually a better aspect ratio for a phone than 16:9?

 

When using a phone for anything other than watching movies, in other words roughly 90% of the time or more, extra width matters as much as height. Use the example of writing a text message or email: with a 16:9 screen you have two choices: continue using a skinny tiny keyboard, or turn it sideways and wind up with all keyboard and very little content window. With a "closer to square" aspect ratio you have more "balance" between various screen components. That's why I was surprised when Apple went 9:16 with the iP5 -- while slightly larger than the old screen, it isn't a lot more useful.

 

As for watching movies, you still get the same size picture, just with a black bar at the top and bottom that have no effect on the experience.

post #98 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Correct... and that's what I meant.

Apparently Apple can't do it successfully.

They figured out all the other screens... but a new larger screen has them stumped.

 

They figured out already, that is how they know, they can't deliver it now. Course of technology development is not a roller coaster, but it's not linear as well. dpi has obviously advanced ahead of other factors in last year, so they need to catch up. 

post #99 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Would it just be adding to the wish fragmentation to suggest that I think 3:2 is actually a better aspect ratio for a phone than 16:9?

When using a phone for anything other than watching movies, in other words roughly 90% of the time or more, extra width matters as much as height. Use the example of writing a text message or email: with a 16:9 screen you have two choices: continue using a skinny tiny keyboard, or turn it sideways and wind up with all keyboard and very little content window. With a "closer to square" aspect ratio you have more "balance" between various screen components. That's why I was surprised when Apple went 9:16 with the iP5 -- while slightly larger than the old screen, it isn't a lot more useful.

As for watching movies, you still get the same size picture, just with a black bar at the top and bottom that have no effect on the experience.

I dunno... 16:9 seems to be a thing now 1smile.gif

But I do prefer 4:3 on tablets.

As for turning a smartphone sideways to use the landscape keyboard... that's a smack in the face to the idea of "one-handed" use 1wink.gif
post #100 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Oh, sorry, didn't see that. Whenever pedro starts typing, I quickly move along to the next post while trying not to make eye contact.

you fool! lol

 

My point was: there's no high-quality 4.5+ screen on a phone that sells on the millions. So, Cook is right.

The One is a great phone, and is costing HTC dearly.

 

Looks like they would be better would low build quality, a oversaturated screen with wrong colors, pentile, with software made for a 3"phone and spend money on ads.

post #101 of 139

Simple calculation shows, that 4.5 screen would need at least 581 dpi screen and even 5" would still need 522 dpi.

 

DPI is not such a big problem if you don't really care about picture quality, but this is not he main point. THe main point is how to handle 4x the graphic info without turning iPhone into iShit.

post #102 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

At the end of which they will be sitting on a BIGGER pile of cash. Arithmetic is your friend.

What end? There is no end game and the one sitting on the biggest cash pile now could be bankrupt next year.
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post #103 of 139
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
…the one sitting on the biggest cash pile now could be bankrupt next year.

 

That would mean something if the 'biggest cash pile' wasn't 130 BILLION DOLLARS.

post #104 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That would mean something if the 'biggest cash pile' wasn't 130 BILLION DOLLARS.

Which is about to shrink. While that much money would be pretty hard to squander, how many companies were once 'King of the Hill' and now no longer exist. You can never think that you 'won' because that's when you'll surely lose.
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post #105 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyDude View Post

It's become reality that Tim Cook and Apple have completely lost touch with the market and what consumers want. This idea that a 5" display cannot be created with high specs and standards is insane, several devices currently have 4.7-5"+ displays that have even better specs and quality than the iPhone. 

 

I've owned Apple since the 3G and currently use the 4s. Apple holds itself to a high standard, so much so that they air a sense superiority over everything they do. So much so that it's self limiting in terms of innovation. Let's face it, Apple has lagged behind in that department big time in the last year or so. For 3, 4, 5 years they were the leader in innovating and bringing top of the line products to market. Now they've fallen hard and this is born out by the ridiculous losses the company has been simmering over. Since September 2012 their stock has fallen from $700+/share to $406/share today equating to a $290 BILLION loss in market volume. The industry has passed them, while there might be a bazillion android/other smartphones available and maybe only 0.1% of them are worth a look, that's still more, better options that are available than today's iPhone. More frustrating is that Apple is sitting on $150 BILLION in cash and not investing in tech innovation. Their investors and the market is losing faith in the company, Tim Cook has lost touch and with so many other options it's easy to see Apple losing the death grip they've had on the industry for 5 years. 

 

I've had my time with Apple and I'm moving on, there are just too many better phones with better displays and companies making them who are willing to continue to innovate. Apple can sit on it's high pedestal preaching about how it doesn't want to put sub-par products with large screens on the market, but the truth is that they are just full of themselves. Those options already exist with great screens and none of the lower quality specs that Apple seems to think are reasons they refuse to innovate.

 

Yah, you must be new to the Apple world. Apple has historically done what they want, and rarely listened to consumers. From the inception of the All-in-one iMac (design and thoughts coming from the original mac) not being expandable, to users clamoring for an upgradable xMac and dozens of other call outs from users. Apple does what Apple wants. They feel they know what users want before they want it. Usually they're right (see MBP, iPod, iPad, iMac), other times they're dead wrong (see Cube, original ATV, Lisa, puck mouse). Either way, they're going to continue doing what they feel is right. They aren't going to listen to small stock holders, and they aren't going to bow away from what they feel is right because a few people are kicking and screaming. 

 

Other times, they slightly listen (see matte screens, Mac OS X getting classic updates like labels and spring loaded folders, uhh that's all I can think of right now)

 

It's a bitter sweet company to work with. Personally, I usually find their products just work for the most part and improve my production. It may be different for you personally, and that's a choice you're going to have to make. If you are losing value somewhere, by all means, switch to a competitor. 

 

 

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post #106 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Which is about to shrink. While that much money would be pretty hard to squander, how many companies were once 'King of the Hill' and now no longer exist. You can never think that you 'won' because that's when you'll surely lose.

 

That cash pile isn't about to shrink. That would say they aren't profitable. They still made 9.5Billion profits last quarter. It's only 2B less than the year before. That cash pile isn't going anywhere. Paying dividends won't even make a flicker in their profits. 

 

 

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post #107 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

That cash pile isn't about to shrink. That would say they aren't profitable. They still made 9.5Billion profits last quarter. It's only 2B less than the year before. That cash pile isn't going anywhere. Paying dividends won't even make a flicker in their profits. 

They're going to spend $60 billion to buy back stock which immediately stops being counted towards their 'cash' pile.
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post #108 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Which is about to shrink. While that much money would be pretty hard to squander, how many companies were once 'King of the Hill' and now no longer exist. You can never think that you 'won' because that's when you'll surely lose.

The ****? how?

 

They will expend 30 billion (dividends, share buybacks) per quarter, but they are gaining average 10 billion per quarter.

A years has 4 quarters, then you have interests, etc.

 

it is most likely that by 2015 they will have 200 billion instead of 100 billion.

post #109 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Why should the larger screen affect color accuracy?

Cost, for example.

 

Ask Samsung why they use screens that are so bad for 600 dollar products. Looks like apple is the only one who cares about that, and poor htc.

post #110 of 139
I don't need a bigger phone to add a larger bulge in my pants. I'm fine with the iPhone 4 size.
post #111 of 139
Originally Posted by Alexmit View Post
I don't need a bigger phone to add a larger bulge in my pants.

 

I started wondering whether the emphasis was put on the first or second clause of that sentence.

 

Then I realized what I was doing. lol.gif

post #112 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


They're going to spend $60 billion to buy back stock which immediately stops being counted towards their 'cash' pile.

See 2 posts below your last post

 

 

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post #113 of 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexmit View Post

I don't need a bigger phone to add a larger bulge in my pants. I'm fine with the iPhone 4 size.

Come on, isn't that the new form of "peacocking" 

 

Peacocking

 

Peacocking is the action or actions exhibited in the beginning stages of courting. These actions are typically only temporary and exist during "the chase" of a mate. Much like a male peacock displaying his fruitful colors of his feathers to capture the attention of a mate.

 

 

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post #114 of 139
I can't agree more with what "brains" said above about good large screens that exist currently. If you compare the Galaxy S with iPhone 4S retina screen, the Galaxy is a straight winner in all aspect. Some argue the larger Samsung screens are "saturated and artificial", but hey most people are just, well, ordinary people and to most of us first impression really counts. I live in Hong Kong and the trend is even more worrying: in the streets now you see the ratio between iPhone and Samsung being 2:8, whereas a year ago was some 7:3. Many people, including many long term iPhone users, are switching to Samsung, completely forgetting Apple. I am sure this trend will soon spread to the US and the rest of the world, and this would be the subject of discussion here six months from now! And size in fact, is not the only incentive for switching to Android. My iPhone "traitors" friends have shown me just how exciting and playful Android is, and sadly I have to agree after seeing some demos (for example the dynamic wall papers are really cool) - the iPhone looks somehow dated (both the hardware and the OS). What Apple needs to do is make various versions of the new iPhone, including a super large 5-5.5", and re-design the presentation of iOS to give it a new life after so many years with many people now suffering from "i-fatigue". I am holding on to my iPhone 4S and will only upgrade once a truly large iPhone appears. If not I might just join the Samsung camp and forget about being a blind loyalist especially since Tim doesn't have the magic and charm of SJ.
post #115 of 139
Originally Posted by philky View Post
If you compare the Galaxy S with iPhone 4S retina screen, the Galaxy is a straight winner in all aspect.

 

They're both 16:9, so it doesn't win in aspect.


…in the streets now you see the ratio between iPhone and Samsung being 2:8, whereas a year ago was some 7:3.

 

This your scientific analysis, is it?


I am sure this trend will soon spread to the US and the rest of the world…

 

I'm sure you are¡

 

…six months from now!

 

So, December 2007, then.

 

Oh, wait, I got mixed up because people said that about the first model.


(for example the dynamic wall papers are really cool)

 

HOW EXCITING AND PLAYFUL!¡


…the iPhone looks somehow dated (both the hardware and the OS).

 

lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol


What Apple needs…

 

*cough*


…many people now suffering from "i-fatigue".

 

Otherwise known as idiocy.


…Tim doesn't have the magic and charm of SJ.


If you buy your products based on (your perception of) the salesman, I have bad news for you.

post #116 of 139

I think the problem people are having is that it seems fairly reasonable to assume that Apple would sell between 5 & 10mm units per qtr. of a 5" iphone. they are upset on many levels - many readers here are stockholders and loyal customers. they want to see apple do well so that the company doesn't repeat past mistakes and become irrelevant.

 

if they gave it the aesthetic of the ipad mini (which is what the ipad seems to be moving toward). imho, they will introduce it in 2014. I am counting on it. also, i think they need to allow "jailbreaking" - allow more customization through the app store. custom skins, keyboards, access to files, etc. let us use it more like a mac. those features could be turned off by default and more savvy users would be able to access them if needed. stop dumbing things down. a bit more control, again everything would pass through app store.

 

i personally have not jailbroken any of my iphones (3gs, 4 and now 5) but I am so tempted. just don't want to screw it up. would love to be able to do some customization though.

 

of course I agree it's the best phone, most polished os, etc. I will keep buying them but would like a larger screen and more control. and for f***'s sake, on OSX please integrate mail contacts and calendar. i'd like to be able to create a meeting from an e-mail. really would be useful. the bare bones minimalist design is one extreme, ms office is the other. I think there's room for some more bells and whistles.

post #117 of 139
Originally Posted by sam brokowitz View Post

also, i think they need to allow "jailbreaking" - allow more customization through the app store. custom skins, keyboards, access to files, etc.

 

Absolute nonsense.


…more like a mac.


It's not a Mac. It's not trying to be.


just don't want to screw it up.

 

Makes your 'dumbing it down' comment look a little ironic.


…for f***'s sake, on OSX please integrate mail contacts and calendar. i'd like to be able to create a meeting from an e-mail.

 

Uh… 

 

 

When haven't you been able to do that? They added it YEARS ago.

post #118 of 139

ok, i was just trying to be reasonable but i'm sensing that any expression of dissatisfaction with apple on this forum is going to be met with this type of response from you. but seriously I really don't know how to take an e-mail and create a meeting with it. I mean embedding the entire e-mail in the notes of a meeting in calendar. i can't seem to do this without all the extra clicks copy paste, etc.

post #119 of 139
Originally Posted by sam brokowitz View Post
I mean embedding the entire e-mail in the notes of a meeting in calendar.

 

post #120 of 139

i only have invitees option, not attachments. I would have been using this if i had it - seems like it solves my problem. i'm on 10.7.5. assuming it's not a mt lion thing because you said it was added years ago.

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