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Wall Street disappointed by indications that Apple won't launch new products until fall - Page 3

post #81 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post

True.  Apple is one of the most successful companies in the world - certainly one of the most successful companies (ever?) in the USA.

So the question is:  Why does Wall Street treat them like they are some upstart, no-hope, cottage industry?  You'd think that American financiers would describe Apple in positive terms - shout US innovation, competence, domination, as loudly as possible - but the reverse seems to be the case.

It's a mystery to me.  I ran out of reasons for this disconnect between Apple's performance and its reporting in the finance sector after considering: crude stock-manipulation, sad column-inch journalism, malicious/enjoyable fun-tweaking of AAPL fan-sites, treason (aiding and abetting the enemy . . .)

 

Simple, they don't think Apple can stay 'King of the Hill'. The competition is gaining and while they might not be able to dethrone Apple they can chip away at their earnings.
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post #82 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Here's an interesting image showing days between Apple product announcements:



http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-event-time-line-2013-4
This chart leads me to believe Apple's not just working on incremental updates. Otherwise you would have to assume they really are out of ideas, or are so lost they can't even get out incremental updates. Obviously that's what Wall Street believes.
post #83 of 131
The killer service/feature would be Push-To-Talk, ala Sprint/Nextel style Direct Connect with a dedicated, yet programmable PTT button!
post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

This chart leads me to believe Apple's not just working on incremental updates. Otherwise you would have to assume they really are out of ideas, or are so lost they can't even get out incremental updates. Obviously that's what Wall Street believes.

Whatever happened to the incremental updates of iOS? New features used to be added several times a year.
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #85 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post

The killer service/feature would be Push-To-Talk, ala Sprint/Nextel style Direct Connect with a dedicated, yet programmable PTT button!

Via iMessage? Apple only, therefore? Is it possible?
post #86 of 131
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
The fall is in 4-5 months.

 

And your implication is that we won't know anything about anything until "fall"? 


Stop posting stupid shit.

 

Please do.


Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
Again we are having trouble with the four seasons of the years. Unless you don't believe Tim Cook.
Stop posting stupid shit.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #87 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Again we are having trouble with the four seasons of the years. Unless you don't believe Tim Cook.

He could be in South America where it is the fall.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #88 of 131
Disappointed?? WHO CARES!
"Oh my goodness, we can't take advantage of any new Apple publicity to buy and sell stocks! Boo hoo!!" say the stock trading whiners.

Wall Street destroyed the economy. Tough crap for their "disappointment". Half of them should be in prison right now. I hope Apple buys all its stock back and goes private some day. Public ownership sucks for everyone involved except the "preferred shareholders." Public ownership has nothing to do with "investing" in the economy, and everything to do with abusing it. Self-fulfilling prophecies and manipulation of businesses for the narrow interest of people that have zero care, comprehension or responsibility for the products or customers of the businesses they play their speculation and valueless opinion games with.
post #89 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Whatever happened to the incremental updates of iOS? New features used to be added several times a year.

They are busy with a major update?

They don't have unlimited resources.

Not enough good engineers, not enough room till they get the new HQ.

That sort of thing.
post #90 of 131
Let's face it. The next Apple product will probably disrupt the iPhone, iPad and Macs alltogether.
post #91 of 131
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post
Your implications is that we will.

 

We have been told, directly from Apple itself, that we will. 

 

FACT.


A quiet processor upgrade is not really a new product.

 

It's an update. It fits the criteria necessary to negate the "nothing until fall" premise.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #92 of 131

Sure.  Apple will never be top-of-the-hill forever, but I'm not getting who the "they" is that "might not be able to dethrone Apple they can chip away at their earnings".

 

My point is - why do (so-called, in their own mind) financial wizards like to put down such a successful American company?
 

post #93 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Totally puzzling product intro roadmap. With the bunching increasing the likelihood of creating supply issues and shortages, as happened last year.

It's going to be a long, hard summer for AAPL shareholders, Apple enthusiasts, and AI's boards.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. He referenced new products and surprises. Nothing about product updates. So new laptops, the updated Pro etc could still be coming out. This fall stuff could be simply the same iOS/iPhone/iPad with some new iTunes treats like revamped video encodes, whatever iRadio turns out to be etc. after all he also say 'services'

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #94 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

If it is true that a majority of the product roll-outs won't happen until Fall (we're already well near May) then that's for one of three reasons.

 

1) Apple can't keep up with demand of their existing products so there isn't a need to refresh quite yet.

2) Manufacurer difficulties.

3) There's major OS changes coming that must be released prior to the hardware rollouts.

 

With WWDC coming soon we will find out whether #3 is correct which I expect is the real reason.

Apparently everyone has forgotten TC's comments about your #3.  I'd rather see a 18 month lull in hardware in favor of updated Software and Services.  This is really where Apple need to the most focus.  Too many hardware updates, too soon.

 

http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/tim-cook-talks-up-apple-software-and-services-we-are-not-a-hardware-company/

post #95 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Cook is making the big mistake of caring what investors think. Cook is taking SJ's final words to him "Don't ask, "What would Steve do"?" too seriously. SJ would say, ignore Wall Street. Cook and the other boys ask what would Steve do. SJ would be right.


Not really. If he actually cared he'd be giving them the answers they have been demanding for ages. Telling them the release schedule, what's in the labs, designing what they want to see. The earnings announcement is required by law, Tim just gives a free careful answers to help explain why they give the guidance they do so folks don't run to sell their stock. But otherwise he ignores them and their demands for details

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post #96 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumergo View Post

Sure.  Apple will never be top-of-the-hill forever, but I'm not getting who the "they" is that "might not be able to dethrone Apple they can chip away at their earnings".

My point is - why do (so-called, in their own mind) financial wizards like to put down such a successful American company?

 

Right now Samsung is the 'threat', but you're right Apple does seem to be like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect. Why is that? I'm equally baffled.
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post #97 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

My two cents... I'm disappointed that Apple doesn't appear to have anything for the next 5-6 months that could be a game changer, because that is the only way the stock could get back to $600.

Something tells me that they don't care about that. Apple doesn't design to raise the stock price anymore than they do to make the analysts happy. If the price goes up because they released what they want, when they want, awesome. If not, oh well

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #98 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post


As someone else said in another thread, the iMacs should have been updated six months earlier with a speed bump only,

They tried that with the Mac Pro and have been creamed over it. Doubt doing it for the iMac would have gone over any better. Especially if the new form was a mere 6-9 months later.

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post #99 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Whatever happened to the incremental updates of iOS? New features used to be added several times a year.
Forstall being fired and the shifting of duties between Craig and Jony?
post #100 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

The dilemma is that Apple can't put out products as quickly as you, I, or Wall Street wants because Apple, like everyone else, has to wait for Intel or some other technology that comes from a variety of component mfg to be released and in high enough quantities to be able to have a successful launch.

 

[big list of stuff]

 

A million times, THIS. All the comments and articles and such clamoring for Apple Product X Right Now™ seem to completely ignore all of these factors. New Xeon chipsets are needed for Thunderbolt in Mac Pros, which is totally dependent on Intel's roadmap. ac chips for all wireless products, so on.

 

Remember kids, the future is here tomorrow! :)

post #101 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not sure how you could backup that statement given the late six months. Adding no new product releases for at least another 4-5 months. I would say anantksundaram nailed it, it's going to be a long hard summer for AAPL shareholders.

 

Not if you sit on it and be patient.

 

The stock, I mean.

post #102 of 131
"revenue is falling off a cliff"
 
?
 
By gaining YoY?
 
The results for the three-month period ended March 30, 2013: record second quarter sales of $43.6 billion, compared to revenue of $39.2 billion YoY.

 

As to the "this Fall" business? He clearly stated "surprises" which leaves a lot of room for new products that are extensions of the current lines, new iPad mini, new iPad, new iPhone 5s (that will, amongst other things, be China Mobile LTE compatible for the first time) etc. etc.

post #103 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Where's that impliable?

… Implicable. Im… How d'ya figure?

I have psychic powers. For example, I am sensing... you have doubts about my claim. Proof that I have psychic powers. Thank you, folks, I'll be here all week.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #104 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post

Apparently everyone has forgotten TC's comments about your #3.  I'd rather see a 18 month lull in hardware in favor of updated Software and Services.  This is really where Apple need to the most focus.  Too many hardware updates, too soon.

 

http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/12/tim-cook-talks-up-apple-software-and-services-we-are-not-a-hardware-company/

 

Yes please. I'm hoping 10.9 is a major cleanup of Lion/ML for bugs and optimization, along with new features or a smarter Finder, smarter iCloud implementation, etc. Getting battery life back to Snow Leopard levels from where it is with Mountain Lion would be a good start. 

 

iOS7 ... well, people have plenty of requests there. I want simple things like collapsable IMAP folders in Mail. :)  And for Siri to understand what the hell I'm talking about. :)

post #105 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

I think this is what is happening.  The iOS7 update is pushing all the hardware back.  Software is where the wow factor needs to be.  Another sign that things were stagnating under Forstall and that it will take some time to right the ship.  I have to also imagine they know the damage is much worse to roll things out too soon and have another maps-like debacle vs simply waiting another -23 months from the original timeline. 

 

Forstall is kicking himself for spending so much time on that shredder animation in Passbook he was so proud of.

post #106 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post
Meanwhile Goldman called the 5S "dead on arrival" if not a larger screen, which means its DOA in their opinion.  .....

 

Just my 2 cts

And you think that Goldman's views on Apple -- and specifically, on the issue of screen size -- are worth even 2¢ how?

post #107 of 131
Aw, poor disappointed Wall Street... now, where was I? Oh yeah, making plans for purchasing a new iPhone 5 and iPad Mini... sweet.
Edited by tribalogical - 4/24/13 at 4:37pm
post #108 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdnc123 View Post

So Wall Street and investors should not be concerned by the fact that was acknowledged by Tim Cook last night that Apple is growing top line slower than the overall smartphone market?  They shouldn't be concerned that Apple just announced they expect a massive decline in year over year earnings?  They shouldn't care that the risk of the strategy is higher, not lower, when management puts all products out all at once creating execution issues themselves?  I'll have to check the numbers, but I think Samsung is now expected to make more money than Apple in the June and Sept. quarters.  Once the king of the hill, the are playing second fiddle from a growth and future earnings perspective, regardless of the quality of the products, what their history has been in the past, etc.  Times have changed.  Big investors are bailing and betting on another horse because as someone put it last night after the call, 'Apple's product roadmap is a rudderless ship right now.' I just listened to a bullish analyst who basically said who cares about new products, the main concern now is can they even do the simple stuff any management team, any reasonable investor would expect them to do and that the answer remains and open one as they haven't shown the market an ability to do nearly anything in the face of the competitive onslaught, so many investors fear its too late, they were caught flat-footed and are simply playing catch-up.  

 

Revenue is falling off a cliff in the early innings of a smartphone growth cycle.  How can a company in a secular growth market slow revenue growth so dramatically (actually negative revenue growth forecasted this qtr I believe), with earnings slowing even more?  The answer to that is the question that will make investors a lot of money on either the long or short side from here.

 

You sir, are the FUD, the Cynic, and the False Narrative, all rolled into one. I have a simple suggestion: Whoever that "bullish analyst" was you cited, stop paying attention to them. The rest of your post is all histrionics, with a touch of shrill hysterics. Look at the tone, the level of negative spin running throughout your post. You speak as if knowledgeable, but it's fear-driven gak, fed in part by the nonsense of those 'bullish analysts'… please, give yourself, your fears, and the rest of us a break. Apple … is … not … doomed. Get it? 

 

For ten years I've been watching this constant parade of pundits declaring them dead, failing, dying, ending, doomed (all while they grew into the most valuable company on the planet earning the greatest profits of any company in history)… It's like those "The End Is Near" loons walking the streets claiming the End Times are upon us... for centuries now… I guess a broken clock is right once or twice a day, but the rest of the time it's pointless...

 

Get it?

post #109 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

And you think that Goldman's views on Apple -- and specifically, on the issue of screen size -- are worth even 2¢ how?
Ha, I was going to ask that same question. Where are the hard facts that Apple is selling fewer iPhones, or gaining fewer new customers because the screen size is too small? Do we have legitimate data that shows people are leaving iPhone for Samsung or HTC?
post #110 of 131
Originally Posted by SCProfessor View Post
I love the "f Wall Street" comments aka the shareholders aka the owners. Tomorrow when you go to work, find the owner and spill those same beans on him or her, and see how good that does you.

 

Owner ≠ capable operator ≠ holder of intelligent opinions, given that they know next to nothing about the company's plans and operations.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor View Post

I love the "f Wall Street" comments aka the shareholders aka the owners. Tomorrow when you go to work, find the owner and spill those same beans on him or her, and see how good that does you.

Or liquidate your 401K.
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post #112 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCProfessor View Post

Doesn't matter. If the owner wants to run their company into the ground... they can.

But not all stockholders are morons.
post #113 of 131

The Wall Street shills trying to create mass hysteria are actually kinda funny with their faux fear.  At least more funny than the Android trolls. 

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post #114 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I fail to see the humor when a stock drops 300 points in six months. A loss of 290 Billion market value in six months. If they are trying to create hysteria they are doing a really good job. Maybe you don't understand Wall Street, when it comes to investing perception always becomes reality.

It'll be ok dude, surely you're seasoned well enough to adapt. 

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post #115 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

Your implications is that we will. My point being Wall Street doesn't respond well to "what if". If your going to respond to my posts please at least give me the courtesy of a rational debate instead of just "FUD". A quiet processor upgrade is not really a new product. The point I was making is I can understand why the Mac lineup would wait for the release of Haswell but I do see an advantage in having the reason of a lighter iPad5 and a more power iPad mini. If you think that is going to happen then we agree it's a good idea.

 

When is the WWDC again?

 

I wonder if they'll show off any functioning new OS features both OSX and iOS?

 

Of course I expect anything they reveal in two months will also be "disappointing", "incremental" "uselessness that no-one will use, after all built in IR remotes are now "where it's at", apparently, although you'd think the competition would use DLNA, WiFi and NFC to control televisions, those "innovations" that have caught on so much they had to wind the clock back over a decade.

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post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCProfessor View Post

I love the "f Wall Street" comments aka the shareholders aka the owners. Tomorrow when you go to work, find the owner and spill those same beans on him or her, and see how good that does you.

 

You should read this:

 

http://www.directorship.com/stout-shareholders-as-owners/

 

As a shareholder you do not 'own' the company.

post #117 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Well, they ARE selling fewer phones and have to discount them, as evidenced by them guiding both top and bottom line down. Whether it is the screen size, I cannot say, but something is not going so hot.

 

Weren't the iPhone sales revenue up last quarter?


Edited by Rayz - 4/25/13 at 3:50am
post #118 of 131

 

 

 

Considering this is the kind of dialogue coming out of the market sector, those telling Wall Street where to go have a pretty strong case.

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post #119 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Dear Wall Street,

Apple doesn't NEED to do anything. The same analysts probably said Apple needed to sell a Netbook.

The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

Agreed. The other issue is the idea that the share price is the only thing that matters. IMHO Apple should just ignore Wall Street and keep doing what they are doing, running an amazing company making amazing products everyone loves. The increase in dividends rewards those that stick with AAPL and for most of us long term investors our shares are still way up never mind the drop in value. Wall Street is all about gambling, making money of what has become nothing more than a game of roulette with AAPL. They have zero interest in Apple or Apple's products per se, only if they can buy and sell amidst the FUD to their advantage.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #120 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater View Post

I'm not sure how you could backup that statement given the late six months. Adding no new product releases for at least another 4-5 months. I would say anantksundaram nailed it, it's going to be a long hard summer for AAPL shareholders.

I don't know obviously but I'd hazard a guess many that are long time share holders bought when APPL was way lower than it is now. I'd also suspect much of the losses in the last few months went to those that were late to the game and riding the excitement as they same people probably did with flipping houses, the dot com boom and their ancestors did with the gold rush (I jest on the latter). That's not to say many long term investors didn't also dabbled later on too I know I did but I'd be interested to know the break down of current share holders showing the longevity of their holdings.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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