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Apple's MacBook Pro named 'Best Performing Windows Laptop' by IT company - Page 2

post #41 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The report notes that comparing a Windows install on a MacBook Pro with one from Acer or Dell is a bit unfair, as Apple's version is "clean," or devoid of bloatware usually pre-loaded by PC OEMs

Then why didn't they include a Microsoft signature laptop in their test?

I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #42 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post


True, but the most interesting thing about Soluto's results was the price/performance ratio:  the second-best performer was only behind by 0.07 on the Soluto score, but cost just a tad over 1/3 the price.

 

Your point about the initial purchase price is correct. What you neglect to mention is that TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) can get substantial over the life of a laptop depending on reliability. Also the price difference is small when looked at the life of the machine.

 

Lets compare price difference from a different perspective. Assume 3 years before replacement (depends on the company of course some are shorter cycle). The $770 initial purchase price difference (for the 2nd Best) amounts to $21 a month or about $1 dollar a work day. I dare say that the frustration metric Soluto has tried to measure and apply here is worth much more than the initial outlay of $1 a day to most business folks -- hell to anyone that uses their computer regularly.

 

Also I think you will find the resale value after 1,2 and 3 years doesn't compare favorably for the Wintel products either. I have not seen a study but empirically I would say that the MBP has a higher value when it comes time to sell or if it is a family computer it is something that might take a different role in the household ecosystem whereas the plastic case PC's with screens that fail (and typically are much poorer quality) are much more likely to be head for the recycle company or the spare parts pile at your house. Its much like owning a BMW or even a Honda versus a Ford or Buick (except I would not keep the Ford or Buick unless I wanted to build an art car or sell it for a crash test).

 

 

My experience (I can't quote a study but there have been several articles about same) is that the support staff required for Wintel products by most accounts is substantially more as they are constantly fixing crashed machines, fighting malware, installing software that a non-tech user might not ever get right.

 

I made my choice long ago and although I have built computers (including an IMSAI -- can anyone say Global Thermonuclear War) of various types and used more OS's than I have fingers and toes to count I found the Mac the most satisfying and least frustrating. (I have to admit in the earliest of days I did modify a 128K to make it a 512K and later swapped processors on my Mac Plus as well and hacking it to accept 4M RAM but that was fun).

 

The other thing I find interesting is this is not the first outfit to say that the MBP was the best PC World made a similar claim for different reasons (and boy did that generate some lively discussion).

post #43 of 73

I still believe that it is very stupid to buy a MBP 13". Sorry

 

It makes sense against Windows Machines, since they are all bad or copies of something better, but against a macbook air or retina 13"?

 

The pro 13" in that form factor will die, very soon. People just like the power of those 3 letters: Pro.

post #44 of 73

Totally agree with the earlier post about starting to use Apple products and realising what a waste of time a career in supporting Windows is. Reinstalling my own Windows setup every six months was fun when I was young and had time to waste - now I have a life and my Mac setup 'just works', lol.

post #45 of 73

With Macs able to run Windows, who needs Mac OS?  Maybe one day those IT admins will get the idea to require that if any employee wants to have a Mac, the Mac must run Windows natively (Bootcamp) and have only Windows installed.  Also, there are many ways to configure Windows servers to prevent Macs from connecting.

 

Another good strategy is for IT directors to become good buddies with the CEO and other C-level executives.  That will make it easier for IT to carry out their agendas and prevent Macs from creeping into the company.


Edited by Haggar - 4/25/13 at 9:43am
post #46 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

With Macs able to run Windows, who needs Mac OS?  Maybe one day those IT admins will get the idea to require that if any employee wants to have a Mac, the Mac must run Windows natively (Bootcamp) and have only Windows installed.  Also, there are many ways to configure Windows servers to prevent Macs from connecting.

 

Another good strategy is for IT directors to become good buddies with the CEO and other C-level executives.  That will make it easier for IT to carry out their agendas and prevent Macs from creeping into the company.

 

Again, I have to ask:

 

Why would anyone want to install and run a highly defective product like Microsoft Windows on a high-quality machine like a Mac?  

post #47 of 73
When I owned a windows machine, it was always a huge pain to try to get rid of the bloatware that slowed everything down. You couldn't even re-install the OS since the restore partition included the bloatware. The bloatware kept the cost of the system down, but made a mess of the user experience.
post #48 of 73

Not liking Win 7 on Parallels on my Mac Pro. Very annoying - would anyone recommend switching to VMware? God that would be a huge PITA - don't know why I bother with windows anymore - mainly to see how f*cked my web sites look on IE - so fun.

post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by kharvel View Post

 

Again, I have to ask:

 

Why would anyone want to install and run a highly defective product like Microsoft Windows on a high-quality machine like a Mac?  

 

Agreed.  OSX is better than Windows, as is nearly every flavour of Linux.  

post #50 of 73

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:36pm
post #51 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

my Macs have had failure rates roughly on par with my Dell, Asus, and HP machines.  I like my Macs (I'm typing on one now)

Totally believable. I guess that invalidates everyone else's experiences then. Move along people nothing to see here. Turns out that Macs are no better after all.
post #52 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Totally believable. I guess that invalidates everyone else's experiences then. Move along people nothing to see here. Turns out that Macs are no better after all.

 

You need to consider the source, too.

 

Extremely objective.

There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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post #53 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Totally believable. I guess that invalidates everyone else's experiences then. Move along people nothing to see here. Turns out that Macs are no better after all.

 

Actually, it IS totally believable, at least from where I sit. I don't want to get into it again, but toward the end of last year I itemized the Apple device failures I've experienced in the just under five years I've been using them. People here said my experience was atypical so I'll assume that's true, but in MY case the percentage of failed devices and mean time between failures is actually worse than it was with our old Sony/Linksys setup. That doesn't mean I've quit buying Apple products, but I have quit expecting them to be more reliable.

post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

OSX is better than Windows, as is nearly every flavour of Linux.

"OSX, because making UNIX user friendly is easier than debugging windows."
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Actually, it IS totally believable, at least from where I sit. I don't want to get into it again, but toward the end of last year I itemized the Apple device failures I've experienced in the just under five years I've been using them. People here said my experience was atypical so I'll assume that's true, but in MY case the percentage of failed devices and mean time between failures is actually worse than it was with our old Sony/Linksys setup. That doesn't mean I've quit buying Apple products, but I have quit expecting them to be more reliable.

In my case Apple has a failure rate of 100% vs all other vendors as I only use products from Apple ¡
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

In my case Apple has a failure rate of 100% vs all other vendors as I only use products from Apple ¡

 

LOL!

 

I think you were in on the discussion in which I provided the details, so you know I'm not just Apple bashing. It's anyone's guess whether our experience is the result of bad luck, how we use (abuse?) our devices or an indication of relative tolerances, but the fact remains that we have not enjoyed the kind of reliability others report. Of course, that's only one of several considerations when evaluating overall satisfaction though, so I'm still happier using Apple products than what we had before.

post #56 of 73

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:36pm
post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

You're on the wrong forum.

Actually...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Any personal experience which depicts Apple as run by magic unicorns who make magic products that never break (the millions of posts at support.apple.com notwithstanding) is perfectly valid, but any personal experience which depicts Apple as making products merely on par with other companies is Satanic and should be summarily dismissed.

Not quite, your anecdotes just have no credibility in light of your post history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

If you're looking for reasonable discussion, you'll do better at The Verge, MacRumors, CultOfMac, 9to5Mac, or pretty much any other venue.  AI is just an Orwellian hate theater for extremists.

Ok, cheerio then. Those first 2000 comments must have been torture for you, how (and why) have you endured the extremist hate theater this long? You shouldn't make another post here, run, save yourself!
post #58 of 73
That report's ridiculous. First of all, you're comparing a clean Windows install to an OEM install. The OEM install is going to be at all sorts of disadvantages here. You'd also have to buy the Windows license for the Mac, while it comes with the others. Also, these laptops aren't spec-matched - The Carbon uses a ULV processor,and is probably far lighter than any Macbook Pro (it's probably better compared to an Air).

Also: I find it absolutely hilarious that the Aspire E1-571 came in only 0.07 points behind - but it's less than half the price and is quite less powerful (CPU-wise) than the Macbook Pro at that configuration price (They can come with a Core i5, but at that price, they come with a Core i3). Just shows you how bad of a value preposition Macs are.

sflocal: That's actually the opposite of my experience. I've attempted to support machines that use Parallels in OS X to start up a copy Windows. They're a mess to fix - files, for no reason, "disappear" (as in, they've somehow been saved in the virtual drive instead of the outside drive), virtual connections occasionally break, refuse to bind to the right adapter, or will bind to an adapter that's not up (and screw up the internet connection as a result).

Meanwhile, the Windows machines running Windows 2000 run perfectly well.
post #59 of 73

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:36pm
post #60 of 73
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

I enjoy this place for the entertainment it provides.

 

But that's it.


You couldn't care less about the discussion, you couldn't care less about the topics, you couldn't care less about the people, you couldn't care less about the platform, you couldn't care less about the products, and you couldn't care less about the company.

 

What right do you have to be here? 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #61 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Would you kindly explain how you came to imagine that what I've experienced with the many dozens of computers purchases I've authorized over the years didn't happen?

 

There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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There's nothing your wife/girlfriend/partner wouldn't like more than a 6 Plus...
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post #62 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Would you kindly explain how you came to imagine that what I've experienced with the many dozens of computers purchases I've authorized over the years didn't happen?

It's not that I have reason to believe your vague and oddly even distribution of computer purchases over the years didn't happen, it's that I have no reason to believe they did happen. Same goes for the summary of your experience, which is (as usual) concisely formulated to contradict the conclusion of the pro-Apple articles and comments.

You have made it quite clear your purpose here is to contend with everything that is pro-Apple, which gives your statements zero credibility. It doesn't mean your statements are false or even implausible, just not credible. Other members here who are pro-Apple have no reason to be disingenuous about their experiences because they'd be lying to themselves and it's hard to keep that up for a long time.

What is quite funny is that people who aren't pro-Apple assume that everyone else is delusional and being tricked into paying too much money and need to be convinced otherwise. I've seen people reinstalling Windows declaring that it's normal to have to do this regularly to clean it out (I know it's not for Windows), while at the same time telling me that it's probably the same with Macs. I've sat at Windows machines for hours weeding out malware and yet their owners would maintain that Macs are merely secure because nobody uses them. I see people in message boards all the time declaring Android devices to be a fraction of the price of Apple products while talking about Samsung's flagship devices, which are comparable in price. To me, that's delusional.

Now, my vague anecdotes may well lack credibility for you and regardless, have the same limited scope but here's the difference: I don't care if you believe them and I don't go around posting them on pro-Microsoft or Google forums. You seem to care that we all believe every single contentious post you make. You, like many others, aren't content to accept that some people genuinely prefer Apple products and have better experiences with them and don't actually mind paying the premium. For some reason, that preference seems to annoy people.

Perhaps you can enlighten everyone (for the sake of entertainment and anthropology) why it is that people who have little admiration for certain products, feel the need to persuade people who do why they shouldn't feel that way? Don't you think that's more of a behavioural problem than buying products you like and talking about them with other people who also like them?

It's good to get a different perspective on things from people and it can promote healthy discussion when it's done in the right way and for the right reason. When it's not done in the right way, as you repeatedly demonstrate, the only effect is annoyance and then the claim is that there's no opportunity for healthy discussion. You claim there's a problem despite being one of the root causes. If you had a credible reason to be a member of the forum and made reasonable posts, then perhaps you'd find the discussion more to your liking. Given that there are other forums that do seem to be to your liking, perhaps frequenting them more and this one less would be in your best interests.
post #63 of 73
Wow. What an incredible, well founded and reasoned post. Commendable Marvin. Excellent post, also 'on its own'.
I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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I’d rather have a better product than a better price.
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post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Wow. What an incredible, well founded and reasoned post. Commendable Marvin. Excellent post, also 'on its own'.

 + 1  

post #65 of 73

Quote:
I wouldn't say the pro runs windows better than a comparable laptop. The article is misleading.

 

You're describing your impressions. The article is describing the result of large-scale testing. The article wins.
 
Quote:
Macs are not for engineering yet but...
 
Macs are for engineering.
post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeb85 View Post

Another thing to keep in mind is that many of these PCs are actually decent devices, it's simply Windows and all the crap that comes with free Windows installs that sucks.  

 

I've got a ThinkPad, I wiped Windows and installed Ubuntu Linux, runs much better than it ever did with Windows.  Microsoft seems to be in self-destruct mode these days...

Yup that's what I did with my Thinkpad X220T, wiped it and installed Arch Linux, use VirtualBox if I need to run a Windows program. I got the ThinkPad from work, we would love to use Macs but Apple just can't compete in price and service that say HP or Lenovo can. Dell for instance has same day onsite repair and they don't really ever do anything but just give us a new machinet. I think Apple has onsite service in the states but not here.. Plus I don't know what it is about the bank I work but all laptops must have removable batteries and docking stations, some corporate rule that lingered from the 90's.


Edited by Relic - 4/28/13 at 12:11pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac'em X View Post

Macs are for engineering.

 

Well it really depends on what kind of engineering you do, if you want to use a Tesla or multiple Quadro/FireGL cards you'll need to go with a Windows or Linux machine. Using a Tesla card for video encoding or 3D work is friggen amazing. I can encode a 720P 30 min video to MP4 in 2:30 min. Frankly if you do any pro video work you'd be insane for not owning a Tesla. Just buy a used one from Ebay, they go for under 400 bucks.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #68 of 73

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:37pm
post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Have you considered the possibility that my post to another forum member wasn't aiming for your personal approval?

I don't think it was aiming for anyone's approval and most likely achieved that. Your post to the other member was to say the opposite of what they said to counter their conclusion.

Like if someone said 'everywhere I went yesterday, I saw people using iPhones', you'd jump in and say 'everywhere I went yesterday, I saw people using Android phones' and then if anyone criticised it you'd say 'hey, I'm just sharing my experience. Sigh, why can't people be more reasonable'. It gets old, you need to come up with something more creative or believable. If nobody believes anything you say then it's just wasted effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

The more astute reader will note that I rarely criticize Apple's products at all, and indeed the worst thing I've suggested in this thread is that they're at least on par with others.

Yeah we've all noticed what you do. It's still not clear what you're getting out of it. Here's some of your latest gems:

"Is Apple's R&D spending higher than their legal fees yet?"
"It may well be that that Apple's numbers are as low as you suggest."
"iOS apps are more grabby with your personal data than Android apps"
"Apple is indeed an amazing technology company if they have the means to address an issue with Microsoft's Exchange server, which first appeared after a change to iOS, by making more changes to iOS."
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

In a world imagined by so many here, everything must be either "pro-Apple" or "anti-Apple". But in the real world, there's a wide range of views possible.

We're not talking about everything in the world though, just this forum. This is a forum about Apple. If your only purpose is to discredit anything about Apple then you are in the anti-Apple category. By all means pick another part of the wide range of views, at the very least to share something worth reading.
post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjbDtc826 View Post

This is no joke. Like 90% of the people I've showed this to didn't even know u can run Windows on a Mac. They should run an ad like "Pay $500 for a laptop running Windows. Or buy a Mac for $1000 and have Windows run *correctly*"


I hope you realize you can also install stock Windows on any of the others. Either way it's the cost of a Windows license. They used to include disks so you could do a clean reinstall if you wished. Now that is no longer the case.

post #71 of 73

deleted


Edited by MacRulez - 7/23/13 at 2:36pm
post #72 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Apparently the only views worth sharing here are double-standards that favor one brand. Given that you took exception to the news articles I linked to without even attempting to offer a single fact to refute any of them and instead indulged in yet another ad hominem, thank you for proving my point.

Your point seems to be:

- you don't like the forum discussion
- you're staying to annoy people
- you enjoy annoying people
- you have nothing worthwhile to say about the company the forum is about
- when you don't get to annoy people freely, you claim you are a victim of oppression

Did I miss any out? There are other members who make decent contributions without being entirely pro-Apple but they put some effort into their posts so they are at least believable. It's really in your own best interests to make your contributions credible because otherwise it's just wasted effort.
post #73 of 73
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post
Apparently the only views worth sharing here are double-standards that favor one brand.  Given that you took exception to the news articles I linked to without even attempting to offer a single fact to refute any of them and instead indulged in yet another ad hominem, thank you for proving my point.

 

Marvin's nicer than me in that the above was his way of saying shut up and go away.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
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