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Samsung Electronics profits grow 42% on strength of smartphone sales - Page 2

post #41 of 63

We all started with Duplo but eventually we all upgrade to real Lego.

 

Many people buy cheap phones, they realise they are rubbish.

You can't truly appreciate the quality of the iPhone unless you use a lesser phone.

All these people buying Samsungs are just future iPhone owners when they finally see the light (or have their lobotomy reversed).

post #42 of 63

Credit where it's due.

 

Can't quarrel with the financial results here. 


Edited by anantksundaram - 4/26/13 at 3:17pm
post #43 of 63
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post


a
Not true. Apple acknowleges how many phones are in the channel because inventory factors into their costs and shows availability of supply. On more than one occasion both Cook and Jobs before him explained the difference.

Of course it's true. It's such an old and rehashed discussion it's not even worthy of disagreement anymore. Apple's reported sales each quarter include "channel sales", shipments made to retailers and other resellers but not yet sold to an end-user. That Apple will also estimate the existing channel inventory each quarter doesn't change a thing about how Apple officially counts sales, which include channel shipments. That you would say it's not true speaks directly to my comment about some people erroneously believing Apple's reported sales numbers are only to end-users.

 

Yes it would be interesting to some of us to get channel inventory numbers from other vendors too, as well as returns/refurbs if they really want to be transparent. Apple gets props for reporting estimated channel numbers where others do not.

 

I don't know that anyone reports the number of devices returned do they, nor break out the revenue/numbers from refurbished sales? I think that would give a hint to the return and failure rates, an area where I suspect Apple also shines compared to others but lacking proof to claim it as a fact.

Of course it's rehashed. But it's still an important point.

 

It's not even the channel inventory that's the main problem: it's the lack of volumes data. This is perhaps because they're trying to hide the average selling price (they worsen this problem by clubbing handset sales with telecom equipment sales). 

post #44 of 63
I thougth that AppleInsider is about Apple, but obviously I was wrong and the holy AppleInsider Staff must be right. Must ... change ... blog ...
post #45 of 63
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Originally Posted by erann View Post

I thougth that AppleInsider is about Apple, but obviously I was wrong and the holy AppleInsider Staff must be right. Must ... change ... blog ...

I knew AI was in trouble when Apple refreshed their entire product line in one day.
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post #46 of 63
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Is your disbelief in AP being paid off or the concept of being paid off?

I'd say the AP being paid off, or did they join the NYT and WSJ with a ax to grind toward Apple?
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post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Dear dig48109,

 

the top selling smartphones have screens the same size as the iPhone 4, 4S and 5, because they ARE the top selling smartphones.

 

 

Let's talk about this again after Apple releases a larger phone so that we can factor iOS out of the equation.  Right now there is no way to make a claim about small screens being more popular if your support for that claim is only iPhones.

post #48 of 63

Wow, PowerPoint slides of unique design! That's truly innovative - how didn't I come to think of using PP.

post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Let's talk about this again after Apple releases a larger phone so that we can factor iOS out of the equation.  Right now there is no way to make a claim about small screens being more popular if your support for that claim is only iPhones.

Because screen size isn't much a factor if at all when someone chooses a iPhone, but is very likely when choosing a Samsung phone.
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post #50 of 63

Hmmm..... that's weird.....

 

1) According to this PPT presentation, sales of the "mobile" division (which is 87% of revenues of the "IM" division) is only up 4% Q-to-Q. (p. 2).

 

2) Profits are down 3%. (p. 2)

 

3) If we believe IDC's numbers of 71M handsets, and attribute all of the sales in the "mobile" division to handsets (which it's surely not), their approximately 27T won revenue (~$24B USD) suggests they're selling a heck of a lot of the cheap cr4p.

 

Assuming that my arithmetic is right, the numbers actually don't look that great, despite press reports to the contrary. lol.gif

 

Add: See correction below.


Edited by anantksundaram - 4/26/13 at 3:15pm
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

Also, re record PROFITS: presumably the Galaxy S3 production line has mostly amortised its costs, so margins have improved considerably.

According to the link you provided, their "record" profits certainly did not come from the division selling handsets. If anything, that division's profits are down 3% Q-to-Q.

post #52 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hmmm..... that's weird.....

 

1) According to this PPT presentation,

 

... snip

 

That PPT was for Q4 2012, not Q1 2013.  (I haven't looked at the latter, so have no idea if it was better or worse... just wanted to point you at the right one.)

 

(Here's the Q1 report.)

 

You might want to go back and edit/delete your previous posts so they won't confuse anyone.


Edited by KDarling - 4/26/13 at 3:12pm
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hmmm..... that's weird.....

 

1) According to this PPT presentation,

 

... snip

 

That PPT was for Q4 2012, not Q1 2013.  (I haven't looked at the latter, so have no idea if it was better or worse... just wanted to point you at the right one.)

 

(Here's the Q1 report.)

 

You might want to go back and edit/delete your previous posts so they won't confuse anyone.

Done. Thanks for pointing out that the link from igriv was wrong.

post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

 

Let's talk about this again after Apple releases a larger phone so that we can factor iOS out of the equation.  Right now there is no way to make a claim about small screens being more popular if your support for that claim is only iPhones.

 

Don't forget the elephant in the room, "What percentage of Android handsets being sold now are "large screen" phones?"

 

Going by the large number of Android "activations" in comparison to the number of declared sales of high end large screen Android handsets, it cannot be particularly high.

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post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by erann View Post

Wow, PowerPoint slides of unique design! That's truly innovative - how didn't I come to think of using PP.

 

This bit is interesting, from that report:-

 

"S.LSI : Demand to decrease due to weak seasonality and customers’ inventory adjustments"

 

Breaking up with your best customer can be hard, I hope Samsung are enjoying Apple's "inventory adjustments".

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post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Because screen size isn't much a factor if at all when someone chooses a iPhone, but is very likely when choosing a Samsung phone.

But Samsung is one of many companies offering larger screens. So display size surely can't be the main reason for choosing Samsung?

post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

But Samsung is one of many companies offering larger screens. So display size surely can't be the main reason for choosing Samsung?

Advertising is.
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post #58 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

This bit is interesting, from that report:-

 

"S.LSI : Demand to decrease due to weak seasonality and customers’ inventory adjustments"

 

You're looking at a report from 2012 predicting last quarter.  Now, the latest report's Outlook for LSI for the coming quarter is:

 

"Expect earnings to improve driven by 28㎚ ramp-up and high-pixel CIS sales"

 
Quote:
Breaking up with your best customer can be hard, I hope Samsung are enjoying Apple's "inventory adjustments".

 

Apple still gets their CPUs from Samsung's factories, so last quarter's LSI slowdown would probably be more about poor customer device sales.

 

Wait a few more months to see if Apple moves to TSMC.

post #59 of 63
I don't like Samsung much. I don't have their TVs, Phones, tablets or computers. I'm unlikely to get one either; there is more attractive product - for me - from other vendors for any above mentioned.

But... I was today in local shopping mall. On central square (where huge Christmas tree gets erected every holiday) there was big Samsung Galaxy pavilion showing everything Galaxy - phones, tablets, cameras. Everything was available to try, there were giveaways (don't know what and how much, didn't spend too much time in there), there was also live music, DJs and dancers outside. We were in mall for 6 hours - went earlier to get good seats for Iron Man 3, did some shopping, had lunch... and something was happening pretty much all the time.

I live in NZ. Small country, less than 4 mil people all together. Small market. Still. Samsung decided it is big enough for some serious promotions. I have seen their promo stands on airport and other malls, never this big but presence was there before this event. I've never seen Nokia, Apple, Sony... doing things like this. We don't even have a proper Apple shop, only resellers.

So... regardless of my opinion on Samsung, I'm not going to be surprised if I learn tomorrow that they have majority of smartphone market, and are growing in tablet market as well. Here at least, they are working harder than others in securing it.
post #60 of 63

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Don't forget the elephant in the room, "What percentage of Android handsets being sold now are "large screen" phones?"

 

As in, "Will Apple ever make a larger screened phone?"  That already seems to be answered after Tim Cook said:

 

"Our competitors have made some significant tradeoffs in many of these areas to ship a larger display. We would not ship a larger display iPhone while these tradeoffs exist."

 

He didn't say they would never ship a larger display iPhone (unlike what they said about the book-sized tablet market, which they later got into anyway, with the iPad mini).  Instead, he explained why they're not shipping one now.

 

Think about it.  Apple specializes in designing for high profit, and not necessarily high quantity, markets.  A larger screened phone seems tailor made for their product line.  Certainly far more likely than a bargain priced phone.

 

Those who say that Apple would never do a bigger screened phone, seem to be setting themselves up to look as foolish as some did when they claimed there'd never be a smaller iPad, or a 4" iPhone.


Edited by KDarling - 4/27/13 at 9:21am
post #61 of 63
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

what they said about the book-sized tablet market


Enjoy your revisionist crap.

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post #62 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Enjoy your revisionist crap.

 

The only "revisionist crap" involved comes from people who want to take Jobs' very specific claims about 10" being the minimum, and needing sandpapered fingers to use a tablet app on anything smaller...

 

Quote:

"While one could increase the resolution to make up some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one-quarter of their present size. Apple has done expensive user testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff.

 

There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps.

 

- Steve Jobs"

 

... and somehow try to spin that into claiming that he didn't really mean screens under 10"... especially when we already know from an internal email that he had to be approached several times about a smaller tablet.  And that email even called it the 7" market, not 7.9".

 

 

Of course, Tim Cook's current comments about "screen tradeoffs" (he mentioned resolution, color quality, white balance, reflectivity) are also a bit ironic in the face of the iPad mini's screen, vs others like the Fire HD or Nexus 7... which have higher PPI, better color gamut, less reflectivity, 

 

Still, everyone knows that it's all just typical management handwaving until they have a product ready.  One of the best things about Jobs and Cook is that they're at times willing to make fairly big changes in their direction.  I have faith that Apple will come through eventually.

post #63 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

I agree with everything you say, except: what is the evidence for Tim's flexibility (I have no reason to believe you are wrong, but do you have actual examples?)

 

You're right; he hasn't been in power that long.  Ummm...

 

I think that Cook listened to stock holders and did things differently with Apple's money at least partly because of their wishes.

 

I think that he was the one who okayed the iPad mini, even after originally echoing what Jobs had said.

 

I think that he's more willing to negotiate deals rather than to engage in court battles with their bad publicity, although I have no proof except what he's said about it.

 

I think that he and his execs pushed out Maps in their eagerness to show that they were okay without Jobs.  As a result of the fallout, now he's pulled back from quick releases, and instead will wait until the next major addition is as perfect as possible, even if that means a long dry spell.

 

Thoughts?

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