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Editorial: What will Apple do with the Macintosh?

post #1 of 192
Thread Starter 
After a decade of significant growth, Apple's Mac sales have flattened out as the larger market for PCs has begun to collapse. What future is there in the Mac business, and why is the company now designing a new Mac Pro?

Mac Pro 2009


Apple's recent history with iOS has been nothing short of unprecedented and incredible. The iPhone has sold so well that critics have all shifted from complaining that Steve Jobs was unrealistically optimistic when he said he hoped Apple could account for 1 percent of all phones sold within its second year to a complete 180, demanding that the company make a cheaper model capable of eating up the portion of sales in developing countries that Apple doesn't already dominate.

And at the same time, Wall Street is now "concerned" that too many people are choosing to buy the more affordable, two and a half year old iPhone 4. There's no worries, of course, that Android licensees, including Samsung, have been achieving their market share numbers largely by selling not just outdated hardware but outdated versions of Android, too, at much lower profit margins than Apple has been earning.

While Apple's success with iOS gives it the luxury of being cursed for not having cheap enough products and at the same time lamented for not selling a mix favoring more expensive models, its Mac business is simply plugging along as the only PC maker left that isn't losing its sales to iPad. IDC noted that global PC sales fell 14 percent in the first quarter of 2013, twice the drop it had predicted.

Unlike the iPhone, Apple can't simply sell 2 year old Mac designs at a subsidized discount to a hungry audience. Apple released the cheaper Mac mini in 2005 without stoking intense new demand. The majority of Apple's Mac sales are notebooks, all of which are now premium models precision crafted from thin wedges of aluminum. Compared to iPods, iPhones and iPads, Apple's Mac sales volumes are relatively minimal.

But Apple's Macs are premium machines in an industry that has been specializing in low end, disposable hardware for decades. This has allowed Apple to collect the lion's share of profits in the PC industry. According to a report by Asymco, Apple's Mac generates more profits that the top five PC makers combined.


Source: Asymco


From All-Mac to Also-Mac



It's not hard to see why Apple has been focusing much of its attention on mobile devices: that's where the money is. At the beginning of 2001, the year the iPod debuted, Apple announced winter quarter sales of just 659,000 Macs. Five years later, Apple was up to selling about twice as many Macs (1.254 million) but was now selling more than 14 million iPods, too.

The tremendous success of the iPod caused some pundits to speculate that Apple would (or perhaps should) drop the Mac and focus on just selling iPods. What they didn't know was that Apple was planning to use Mac technologies to develop an iPod successor.

Five years later at the start of 2010, Apple reported sales of 3.36 million Macs, 21 million iPods and 8.7 million new iPhones. It then released the new iPad.

Three years later (just last week) Apple announced sales of just under 4 million Macs, 37.4 million iPhones and 19.5 million iPads. That's nearly 57 million iOS devices (not including iPod touch) being sold per quarter, far outpacing Macs.

Same but different



Of course, iOS devices are actually compact Macs, sharing a nearly identical core os, development frameworks and app code (including their Safari WebKit browser). What's different is the user interface: Macs use an advanced version of the windowing, mouse-driven environment it debuted with back in 1984. In 2007, Apple introduced a new multitouch user interface designed expressly for handheld mobile devices.

Over the past few years, Apple has cross pollinated the Mac and iOS devices, introducing many common user interface and usability concepts ranging from multitouch gestures and Dictation to an App Store for desktop software. Apple's next big push in services, iCloud, appeared with support for both Macs and iOS.

Despite sharing lots of technology and features between the Mac and iOS, Apple hasn't pursued Microsoft's strategy of melding its desktop and mobile device platforms with a common, hybrid user interface. Instead, the Mac has remained a conventional computer without a touchscreen. How long can Apple afford to devote significant resources to maintaining the Mac when there's so much more opportunity for growth and revenues on the iOS side?

Mac Pro now a fraction of the Mac's fraction



Macs have steadily become more mobile. Over the past decade, desktop Macs have shrunk from the majority of Apple's computer sales, to being tied with notebooks, to now being a small minority. Most of Apple's desktop Macs are iMacs, leaving its Mac Pro a tiny island within quarterly sales of around 4 million machines.

As a workstation class system, the Mac Pro now makes up such a small percentage of Apple's Mac sales that it hasn't been significantly updated since 2010. And in Europe, sales have ceased entirely because the existing design no longer meets stringent manufacturing standards related to exposed fan blades and other features.


Mac Pro EU


Germany's Online Apple Store shows the Mac Pro as "currently unavailable." | Source: Apple Store


If Apple's chief executive Tim Cook hadn't already promised an update to the company's full sized desktop this year, it would be very believable to think it might just ride into the sunset with the discontinued Xserve.

Franz,


Thanks for your email. Our Pro customers like you are really important to us. Although we didn?t have a chance to talk about a new Mac Pro at today?s event, don?t worry as we?re working on something really great for later next year [2013]. We also updated the current model today.


We?ve been continuing to update Final Cut Pro X with revolutionary pro features like industry leading multi-cam support and we just updated Aperture with incredible new image adjustment features.


We also announced a MacBook Pro with a Retina Display that is a great solution for many pros.


Tim



Unlike the Xserve, which was speculatively designed to serve a market that was already well served, the Mac Pro (and before that, the Power Mac) was built for Apple's mainstream desktop professional users. Over the past decade however, a number of shifts in technology have enabled more and more of the Mac Pro's potential audience to be better served by speedy notebooks with large displays or, in some cases, the simplicity of the iMac.

The central core audience of Apple's power users, including professionals in print, audio and video production as well as science and engineering, are often still looking for more computing power than a notebook can deliver. Rather than beefing up the iMac to accommodate such users, Apple made it more stylish and thin last fall.

This has left a place open for a future new Mac Pro, even if its target demographic is relatively small. Apple could seek to broaden the appeal of the desktop computer, or it can instead simply deliver a really high end, attention getting workstation just for bragging rights. Apple did something similar last fall when it introduced the Retina Display MacBook Pro, an extremely high end luxury notebook that was so expensive that it needed last year's models to stick around in order to provide more affordable alternatives.

If you're taking note, that's the same pricing strategy Apple used with iPhone 5 and the new iPod touch, both of which are accompanied by a year or two of previous models serving as cheaper options.


What does Apple need in a new Mac Pro?



It's unlikely Apple will do the same thing for the existing Mac Pro, if for no other reason than the market is just too small. Users after a more affordable Mac can always opt for an iMac (the new models of which are no slouch in the performance department) or a MacBook Pro, both of which score about as fast as a two year old Mac Pro, according to GeekBench stats. So the new Mac Pro will need to squarely hit its target audience. But what is that?


Source: Primate Labs Geekbench


Originally, the Mac Pro delivered the cutting edge of speed on Apple's platform. After the Xserve was discontinued, it served double duty as Apple's server offering. The bulk of Apple's Mac Pro sales were targeted toward desktop power users, many of whom were using tools like Photoshop and Final Cut Pro that could make use of more RAM, disk storage and processor cores than are even available on other Macs. In addition, Mac Pros can accommodate PCI expansion cards including graphics coprocessors.

After a decade of building up a suite of Pro Apps (Final Cut Studio, Logic, Aperture) demanding a pro Mac, in addition to efforts to build serious server tools (ranging from Xsan storage to Xgrid distributed processing), Apple seems to have lost its interest in the high end market in favor of the gangbusters consumer market for iOS devices. But there's reason to think it might make a comeback.

For one thing, while the market for high end workstations isn't growing tremendously, Apple's opportunity to enter the market has never been better. Just a few years ago, Apple had little chance wooing its way into many enterprise or government environments. Today, thanks to rapid adoption of iOS devices, Apple now has the ability to enter doors that were once locked up tight for anything other than Windows machines.

And of course, Macs have never been better at running Windows, either natively or right on the Mac desktop. At the same time, rival PC makers have never been weaker. HP, Dell and other market leaders who would previously have scoffed at Apple are now desperately trying to remake themselves into a form capable of surviving the mobilization of PCs. They're entirely dependent upon Microsoft to lead their software, and so far, that company has churned out a series of duds on both the desktop and mobile sides.

Apple can walk in with a solution for both easy mobile deployments via iOS and a high end workhorse in the Mac Pro. Apple needs to incrementally improve upon its deployment tools, but it does, finally, have a solution that works for both Macs and iOS devices.

Apple can't afford not to



There's no question that the market for a new Mac Pro is very limited. But Apple can't afford not to maintain a presence at the top of the PC performance hill, if for no other reason that there's a lot of technology that trickles downhill. The support for multiple cores and multiple processors that Apple built for Mac OS X is now becoming relevant in mobile devices. Apple's experience in dealing with both desktop and mobile architectures isn't common across the industry.

Last summer, Mike Bell, Intel's general manager of the Mobile and Communications Group, said that "the way it's implemented right now, Android does not make as effective use of multiple cores as it could, and I think - frankly - some of this work could be done by the vendors who create the SoCs, but they just haven't bothered to do it."

Apple's intimate knowledge of ARM design makes it likely that it could become the first PC maker to deliver usable ARM-based notebooks and desktop machines. Even if that's not around the corner for the Mac Pro, there are other technologies for it that have originated on lower end machines.

On the subject of multiple cores, Apple has worked on a variety of technologies to take advantage of both multiple processors within a system and multiple systems on a network. Grand Central Dispatch lets OS X effectively schedule tasks to fill the pipelines on multiple cores across multiple processors, including different types such as the GPU. In addition, Apple also deployed Xgrid to farm out tasks across a network of idle machines, although it abandoned the technology around 2007.

A more modern technology, Thunderbolt, has never made it to the Mac Pro. Because Thunderbolt is essentially PCIe via a cable, Apple could conceptually use Thunderbolt rather than large open slots in a big enclosure to retain the Mac Pro's expansion potential. Imagine a smaller unit with the ability to interface with an external box housing expansion cards, including video adapters. The majority of PC users never make any use of the PCI slots in their systems. Apple recognized this with the Mac mini and iMac, which connect to peripherals via USB. Thunderbolt makes the same thing possible for the Mac Pro.


Thunderbolt


Soure: Intel


Thunderbolt could also potentially serve as an extremely fast interconnect for linking multiple systems together to allow for ad hoc super computing. Intel recently announced support for an even faster Thunderbolt specification, providing up to 20Gb/s connectivity.



Another shift that appears likely is the removal of optical media. AppleInsider noted last August that internal references to USB Booting indicated that next iMac and Mac Pro would likely drop their optical drives. The new iMac has, and the Mac Pro appears next, given that it is now the last model to retain one.

If Apple could radically rethink the desktop computer into a more modular, flexible form, it could deliver a compact box that scales from a serious game machine to stackable cluster nodes to a high end workstation, potentially expanding its allure to eat up multiple segments of the valuable remains of the vast PC market.
post #2 of 192
iMac Pro?
post #3 of 192
Quote:
As a workstation class system, the Mac Pro now makes up such a small percentage of Apple's Mac sales that it hasn't been significantly updated since 2010.

The iPod Classic hasn't been updated since 2009, because it's not selling or because Apple doesn't want it to sell or both.

Quote:
Apple's intimate knowledge of ARM design makes it likely that it could become the first PC maker to deliver usable ARM-based notebooks and desktop machines.

Starting with the MacBook Air, of course. It's absolutely inevitable.
Apple will avoid the Intel Tax, and will undercut Intel-based "Ultrabook" pricing.
And it would more strongly differentiate the consumer MacBooks from the MacBook Pros.
(If the MacBook Pros continue to use legacy Intel chips.)

Quote:
Thunderbolt could also potentially serve as an extremely fast interconnect for linking multiple systems together to allow for ad hoc super computing.

Agree. Eventually, the Mac Pro could be composed of snap-together modules with Thunderbolt connectors. The basic Mac Pro would have one CPU module, one storage module, a power module, a Display Adapter module, plus an Apple Thunderbolt Display. (And maybe that would be the Mac mini configuration, come to think of it.) You want a hard core number cruncher? Snap together 10 CPU modules. You want a video editing system? Snap together 4 CPU modules and 20 storage modules.

The modules would be held together with magnets a la iPad Smart Cover, with near-flush Thunderbolt and power connectors. If you want more security, Apple could sell you lockable enclosures in different sizes. And, if you're feeling really retro, there might be 3rd party FireWire / USB / serial / parallel / SCSI modules too.
Edited by SockRolid - 4/27/13 at 11:52am

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post #4 of 192

What will they do with it? Turn it into a fully multitouch desktop platform and re-revolutionize the personal computer for the third time in 38 years.


Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
The iPod Classic hasn't been updated since 2010 either.
 

September 2009, which itself was only a hard drive bump from the previous model (the old 80 and 160 were different thicknesses; the present 160 is as thin as the old 120, which was as thin as the 80, and which was), released in September 2008.

 

So it went 80-thin & 160-fat to 120-thin to 160-thin.

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post #5 of 192
The Mac is not going anywhere. Imagine an alternative history where Apple had never made computers and had started with the iPod, then the iPhone and iPad. What would the endless chorus from the media be? "When will they make a laptop"
post #6 of 192
I think the Mac Pro is the most likely product to have its manufacturing moved to the US. Cook stated last year they had planned to move a whole product line to the US for manufacturing, a comment that seems to have been forgotten by the tech press in the rush to proclaim the doom of the company.

The Mac Pro is the perfect product line to make in the US. Small volumes, comparatively, make it easier to ship parts from other parts of the world. No built-in screen takes out another source of parts that is usually made somewhere else in the world. The high margins of the Mac Pro means that they can easily absorb the higher labor and manufacturing costs in the US.

None of the other Apple product lines are as amenable to manufacture in the US, save perhaps the Mac Mini. However, the shipment volumes are larger there, and so are the logistics involved.

The question is where are these going to be made? Even with the smaller volume of Mac Pros being shipped, it's going to require a fairly decent-sized facility. Has Apple already set up such a facility and starting manufacturing already and nobody noticed?
post #7 of 192
Apple under Jobs seemed to have a Macintosh exit strategy in place. I am curious to see what Tim Cook will do with the line...
post #8 of 192

I don't think an article should be titled with a question like this unless the author is going to actually take a stab at answering said question.  

 

This article says nothing in and of itself, which is good for AppleInsider page views on a rainy Saturday, but kind of disingenuous.  

post #9 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

… The iPod Classic hasn't been updated since 2010 either.

 

That's the difference between a small group of dedicated professional users who have a direct need for the product, and have supported Apple for years, and a microscopic group of non-professional, self-deluded weenies who are living in the past, and don't like Apple very much in the first place.  

 

There is also the fact that the MacPro is an elite computer who's ever-changing design has trickled down to the other products they make time and time again.  The iPod Classic is just an ageing audio player of a type no one needs or is interested in any more.  It hasn't changed since it was introduced.  There is nothing we can learn from it, nothing it can contribute to other products etc. 

 

The two products are "night and day" different.

post #10 of 192
I love these Saturday editorial pieces.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I don't think an article should be titled with a question like this unless the author is going to actually take a stab at answering said question.  

This article says nothing in and of itself, which is good for AppleInsider page views on a rainy Saturday, but kind of disingenuous.  

I felt it was answered quite well across the range of ideas. but more importantly the author succinctly put into his title something many AI readers have wondered which seems like a great way to stimulate further conversation on the subject.

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post #11 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I love these Saturday editorial pieces.
I felt it was answered quite well across the range of ideas. but more importantly the author succinctly put into his title something many AI readers have wondered which seems like a great way to stimulate further conversation on the subject.

 

Possibly just me being grouchy then.  I don't see how the question was really answered at all though.  

post #12 of 192
Macs will be around for quite a while. You need Macs to make apps. You need top end Macs to create content. No Macs, no content. Simple.
And even if Apple releases the SDK for iOS ON iOS, almost nobody will code using an iOS device. Its not flexible enough.
Dont be afraid, we will have Macs for at least another decade.
post #13 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I love these Saturday editorial pieces.

I felt it was answered quite well across the range of ideas. but more importantly the author succinctly put into his title something many AI readers have wondered which seems like a great way to stimulate further conversation on the subject.

Possibly just me being grouchy then.  I don't see how the question was really answered at all though.  

I really don't see why the question needs to be answered by the author. I agree with SolipsismX that it is simply a device to invite different points of view after laying out some facts. In fact, I like that approach. (Although, given that it not some flamebait topic, I doubt that it's going to attract a lot of back and forth).
post #14 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Possibly just me being grouchy then.  I don't see how the question was really answered at all though.  

What do you mean by answered? He covered a wide range of possibilities for the historical, current and future prospects for the Mac Pro. Are you looking for a definitive answer as to how the author thinks will happen with the next Mac Pro? That would fall under an editorial but I don't think that we need his specific wants and needs for the next update. He covered pretty much all the whilst staying fairly objective, which is much better than we see from analysts making foolishly bold predictions about what will happen in several years time based on current data. Anything else I say let the forum posters decide how they think the Mac Pro should progress, assuming they think there will be one.

I think there will be a new Mac Pro this year. I think it will have Falcon Ridge and 802.11ac (which means new AirPort products on or before its announced). I think the ODD(s) will be gone. I don't think the 3.5" HDD trays will go but I think there will be a default SSD card on the board with an option for SSDs or HDDs in the trays for Fusion Drive. I think FireWire 800 will go away and I think people will complain that there is plenty of room to keep those FW ports. I also think the entry level price will drop by about $500.

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post #15 of 192
I wrote about this back in 2009.

Pissed off too many MacRumors folk. Oh well.
Edited by Quadra 610 - 4/27/13 at 1:15pm
post #16 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

What will they do with it? Turn it into a fully multitouch desktop platform and re-revolutionize the personal computer for the third time in 38 years.

I think general use will still be with a keyboard and mouse, but a touch display (with interface that does not require keyboard and mouse) would fit some scenarios perfectly, especially as kiosks in business, education, government, small businesses.. being able to support several touch enabled cinema displays (with an advanced hinge mechanism) would be a very appealing use of the mac pro (and mac mini), particularly with unique logins that allow the interface and content to be personalized in an instant via iCloud. It'd be great to be able to walk up to any iTouch display, press on your name (detected via bluetooth or NFC from your phone/watch), type in password, and off you go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I love these Saturday editorial pieces.

I've actually checked AI a few times today waiting for a DED article :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I don't think an article should be titled with a question like this unless the author is going to actually take a stab at answering said question.  

 

This article says nothing in and of itself, which is good for AppleInsider page views on a rainy Saturday, but kind of disingenuous.  

It's called reading between the lines.

   

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post #17 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

iMac Pro?
 

 

Not even necessary. Most pros I know have settled on the iMac. They are quite powerful these days, though not ideal for heavy-duty rendering tasks.

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post #18 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

iMac Pro?

With a built-n screen? I hope that's not the answer, not unless they partner with NEC or Eizo.
post #19 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Not even necessary. Most pros I know have settled on the iMac. They are quite powerful these days, though not ideal for heavy-duty rendering tasks.

I don't know anyone who has gone the iMac route who didn't regret it. The issue is not the horsepower, it's the screen.
post #20 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by sessamoid View Post

I think the Mac Pro is the most likely product to have its manufacturing moved to the US. Cook stated last year they had planned to move a whole product line to the US for manufacturing, a comment that seems to have been forgotten by the tech press in the rush to proclaim the doom of the company.

The Mac Pro is the perfect product line to make in the US. Small volumes, comparatively, make it easier to ship parts from other parts of the world. No built-in screen takes out another source of parts that is usually made somewhere else in the world. The high margins of the Mac Pro means that they can easily absorb the higher labor and manufacturing costs in the US.

None of the other Apple product lines are as amenable to manufacture in the US, save perhaps the Mac Mini. However, the shipment volumes are larger there, and so are the logistics involved.

The question is where are these going to be made? Even with the smaller volume of Mac Pros being shipped, it's going to require a fairly decent-sized facility. Has Apple already set up such a facility and starting manufacturing already and nobody noticed?

The Mac mini could easily be built in the US as well.  Personally, I wish Apple would make a MacMiniPro and take the guts of the iMac (upper end models) and stick in a slightly larger foot print than the Mac Mini, but the same functionality.  That way, if we have a problem with the guts, we don't have to lug around the monitor back and forth to get the thing serviced.

post #21 of 192

I dont know why people still bring up this ARM is going to replace X86 chips for desktops and laptops. I just don't see it, if it does happen, it will take YEARS to transition over to it.  Remember, Apple wants to have users run Windows on their desktops/laptops, so they can only switch to ARM when Microsoft re-writes Windows to ARM.  No, RT doesn't count.

post #22 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I don't know anyone who has gone the iMac route who didn't regret it. The issue is not the horsepower, it's the screen.

What is wrong with the iMac display?

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post #23 of 192
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
What is wrong with the iMac display?

 

The only possible answer is "it's glossy". And that's not even an argument anymore.

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post #24 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I dont know why people still bring up this ARM is going to replace X86 chips for desktops and laptops. I just don't see it, if it does happen, it will take YEARS to transition over to it.  Remember, Apple wants to have users run Windows on their desktops/laptops, so they can only switch to ARM when Microsoft re-writes Windows to ARM.  No, RT doesn't count.

I don't think Apple cares so much about Windows capability anymore. It served its purpose in giving people a fall-back position for the computer in case they don't like Mac OS, it doesn't mean as much now that the brand is so much more widely known. And I say this as a person that uses virtualization to run Windows on a Mac. I just think my use is a minority use. If Apple ever actually deprecates the Intel architecture then I'll buy the newest Intel and use that until I can transition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

What is wrong with the iMac display?

Really, absolutely nothing, except maybe the cost.

The new iMac finally has an incredibly high degree of anti-reflection coating that there's no reason to prefer the washed out blacks of a matte surface except to be a wanker.
Edited by JeffDM - 4/27/13 at 1:49pm
post #25 of 192
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Possibly just me being grouchy then.  I don't see how the question was really answered at all though.  

 

It's great to see Dan weigh in on this. There are few observers with a better sense of Apple's general direction than he, especially in relation to the rest of the industry. I think this is his core observation:

 

"There's no question that the market for a new Mac Pro is very limited. But Apple can't afford not to maintain a presence at the top of the PC performance hill, if for no other reason that there's a lot of technology that trickles downhill. The support for multiple cores and multiple processors that Apple built for Mac OS X is now becoming relevant in mobile devices. Apple's experience in dealing with both desktop and mobile architectures isn't common across the industry. ... Just a few years ago, Apple had little chance wooing its way into many enterprise or government environments. Today, thanks to rapid adoption of iOS devices, Apple now has the ability to enter doors that were once locked up tight for anything other than Windows machines."

 

But I think what irks you is this:

 

"Apple could seek to broaden the appeal of the desktop computer, or it can instead simply deliver a really high end, attention getting workstation just for bragging rights."

 

So which is it? He doesn't really say. But if everything he mentions were implemented in a new Mac Pro, it would make for a radical departure from the status quo. To begin with, he suggests Thunderbolt will displace PCIe. That's been discussed in these forums, of course, but step back and think for a minute about how big a move that is in the real world. It's something only Apple could do.

 

Add to that the idea of some sort of "modular, flexible" design and you've really got something different. Remove the possibility of an optical drive but retain room for serious internal storage and you get a sense of the size.


Edited by TenThousandThings - 4/27/13 at 2:08pm
post #26 of 192

Ironically, Thunderbolt is the only piece of the puzzle keeping Apple tethered to Intel. Intel refuses to license Thunderbolt to AMD so Apple is stuck, unless it managed with their joint relationship to have a license to do with Thunderbolt what it wishes; and without any Intel Bridge logic.

post #27 of 192
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
Ironically, Thunderbolt is the only piece of the puzzle keeping Apple tethered to Intel. Intel refuses to license Thunderbolt to AMD so Apple is stuck…

 

AMD? ARM. Forget AMD.

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post #28 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by sessamoid View Post

None of the other Apple product lines are as amenable to manufacture in the US, save perhaps the Mac Mini. However, the shipment volumes are larger there, and so are the logistics involved.

The question is where are these going to be made? Even with the smaller volume of Mac Pros being shipped, it's going to require a fairly decent-sized facility. Has Apple already set up such a facility and starting manufacturing already and nobody noticed?

 

Florida. In progress. Been noticed.

post #29 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

People that don't own a Mac Pro just don't get it. And as far as those silly benchmarks, that means nothing it actual daily use. Try some some video rendering for example and compare the results when all 12 cores are being used in a Mac Pro. Finally we can also use off the shelf video cards. Apple are notorious about not offering the latest or fastest video cards as an option. I recently bought a new Nvidia for my Mac Pro and it screams. I will never be interested in an iMac and certainly not a Mini. I enjoy the speed and expansion possibilities a Mac pro affords and I also have two very nice 30" monitors. The iMac is a fine computer for people in that market but I have all 4 hard bays used with drives from 2 to 3TB in size and even that isn't enough space. I have an external quad bay Firewire 800 enclosure daisy chained to another dual bay enclosure. I realize I am not typical and most people don't need over 10TB of storage like me but for those of us that do the iMac is not a great option. 

People that need a Mac Pro NEED a Mac Pro and the iMac will never be a good substitute for me. It is like asking Corvette owners to just make do with a Chevette instead since they are both Vettes after all. 

I have a Mac Pro.

The line about using off the shelf video cards doesn't really ring true. You use whatever is supported by available drivers and firmware, which hasn't been much.
post #30 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


I don't think Apple cares so much about Windows capability anymore.

 

I think that you underestimate the number of people that want Macs but work in industries that are reliant upon windows only software. The only Mac owners I know that are exclusively OSX are those who could do all of their work on iOS if they were thus inclined., or indeed any OS/platform.

 

Anecdotally, most of them, if forced to buy a Mac AND a  Wintel, would just pay a bit more for a decent MS unit and ditch OSX, and possibly get an ipad as well.

post #31 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

I think that you underestimate the number of people that want Macs but work in industries that are reliant upon windows only software. The only Mac owners I know that are exclusively OSX are those who could do all of their work on iOS if they were thus inclined., or indeed any OS/platform.

Anecdotally, most of them, if forced to buy a Mac AND a  Wintel, would just pay a bit more for a decent MS unit and ditch OSX, and possibly get an ipad as well.

I certainly don't fall under the category of ditching Mac OS for a higher-end Win PC if they pushed out x86/x86_64 but If given a choice between an architecture that can also virtualize Windows and one that can't I would take the Mac that can. I like having VMWare for Windows, Linux distros, and other OSes that I want to test. If forced on me I would still use a Mac and then VNC into some other box that contained my virtualized environments, perhaps via Citrix XenServer.

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post #32 of 192
Mac Pro's are the only Mac's I buy now as they are hardware configurable. If they drop the Pro I will reluctantly drop OSX (still my favourite OS). I want some control over my machines. Apple can't have it all.
post #33 of 192
My prediction: the next Mac Pro will be a new Cube, 2.0. No, really. Of course, I seriously doubt Apple will call it that, but nonetheless that is essentially what it will be. Look here:

What has gone:
- Optical drive
- Internal expansion slots (aside from RAM)

Removing these has given Apple much more freedom in shrinking the Mac Pro down to something closer to say, mini-ITX size. Notice I did not say, Mac mini-size. Why? Because of what Mac Pro users still do need:

- Insane amounts of high-performance RAM. Think 128-256GB-512 GB (or more!) of ECC DDR-3 (or -4!) running quad-channel.

- Top of the line, multi-core CPU and GPU**, especially with the ability to upgrade or replace them as newer versions are introduced. (**See nVidia's new DirectCU Mini graphics card for a look at how powerful graphics are now, even in mini-ITX size.)

- Massive amounts of storage. While impressive, Apple's new Fusion drive is nothing compared to, say, two 512GB SLC-based SSDs running on PCIe in RAID 10, along with three or more 4TB Enterprise drives running in RAID 5.

Taken together, all of this suggests that, while there is still a great need for a high-end Mac Pro, the next Mac Pro will be much, much smaller. Cube 2.0
post #34 of 192
The success of most Apple products has been based on creating new needs, while changing perspective to older practices. Making publishing, multimedia or video editing on your desk. Listening to music around. Keeping your agenda with you. Syncing your data.

The focus on design is only part of Apple success, and continuing to focus only on better design will keep Apple far from their old mission: giving people a beautiful, pleasant to use and effective tool to make or enjoy contents.

What are possible new needs? I see the need for a new way of thinking the office, that is currently satisfied by the iPad but not by iWork (nor, godsave, MsOffice). Home automation is still a dream. And I cannot still really make publishing and video editing on an iPad.

As for the Mac, I find it a mature product, with issues in entering data: voice dictation is still in its infancy, but it would be a true revolution. And I'm sure there are several innovations in Apple labs, that only await to be released. If the focus was not only in delivering the thinnest, or the most reflective, computer ever.
post #35 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSbox-gamer View Post

My prediction: the next Mac Pro will be a new Cube, 2.0. No, really. Of course, I seriously doubt Apple will call it that, but nonetheless that is essentially what it will be. Look here:

[…]

Taken together, all of this suggests that, while there is still a great need for a high-end Mac Pro, the next Mac Pro will be much, much smaller. Cube 2.0

Even with all that gutted it seems unlikely to me that it will be as diminutive as the old Power Mac G4 Cube or following the design of the old NeXTcube. The former's role appears to be filled by the Mac mini and the latter is fall to tricky in trying to design an option that is easy to access without having a mobo down the center that HW can attach to on either side as well as making it so it works well in a server environment where you'd want to have fairly efficient rack placement.

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post #36 of 192

There's still going to be a need for Macs for the foreseeable  future.  Steve, when he was alive, stated that using the car and truck analogy.  Cars dominate the roads at probably a 10 to 1 ratio or more to trucks.  Yet trucks are still needed to get real work done.  The same will be said with computing hardware.  Mobile smart devices (e.g. iPod Touch, iPad, and iPhone) will continue to outnumber the sales of computers 10-1 or better.

 

We need Macs to do heavy computational tasks and/or heavy writing tasks.  I am way more productive in my writing on a traditional desktop/laptop than a tablet computer or iPad.

 

I can see a day where at work I'll be able to dock a tablet and use a wireless keyboard to do all the writing I need to do.  The Surface Pro has all the work apps that I need for that.  However, our creative departments need as much power as they can grab.  The Power Macs haven't seen a significant upgrade in years yet they still continue to use them.

 

I have a docked laptop and desktop at work.  For the future desktops I'd like to see Apple or someone make a desktop with RAID 1 (mirrored set with 2 or more disks) as standard.  I know that the Mac Pro can do that, but the DELLs we buy don't have that option.  Even better would be standardizing on SSD for even faster performance.  I'd also like to see a battery backup built into desktops rather than relying on an external one - why haven't desktop adopted that similar to the laptops?  The Mac Mini should be treated as a headless laptop in that regard.  Anyway, those things are way overdue.  When I upgrade my iMac I'm going for  Fusion drive option.  Yet, that won't help much in a power hiccup.  

post #37 of 192

Exactly, I have essentially the same setup as gwmac that I use intensively for video, animation, and photo work. iMac level systems just don't cut it for that level of production. I wouldn't be too anxious to dump Pci either. That is where the truly powerful GPUs are developed that are essential to animation, color correction, realtime playback and editing of HD and soon 4k resolution video. NAB, the world's biggest video show, was all about 4k production this year. Four times the pixels of HD. Huge bandwidth and processing requirements. Thunderbolt and external boxes are interesting developments, but are really mostly about storage and displays at this point. Yes, Falcon Ridge is in development to deal with 4k, but that won't be a viable solution for another year at least. I would like to have it in addition to the Pci 3 technology that can already handle it with existing GPUs. Also, I don't want 5 or 10 boxes on my desk connected by cables. The tower may not be revolutionary, but it combines the necessary technology in one compact high speed enclosure. Just give us a faster, better Mac Pro, with access to the best GPUs, tons of memory, and yes, Thunderbolt for the new stuff.

post #38 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Even with all that gutted it seems unlikely to me that it will be as diminutive as the old Power Mac G4 Cube or following the design of the old NeXTcube. The former's role appears to be filled by the Mac mini and the latter is fall to tricky in trying to design an option that is easy to access without having a mobo down the center that HW can attach to on either side as well as making it so it works well in a server environment where you'd want to have fairly efficient rack placement.
As the Macminicolo's can attest, the Mac mini seems to do quite well as an Xserve replacement. Aside from that, I'm not saying Apple will re-adopt the old Cube's internal layout (everything coming off of a single main-board), just the Cube's much smaller size volume. It's entirely possible (though not likely) that the next Mac Pro will be fully modular, where users can swap out CPU, GPU, and storage boards at will.
post #39 of 192
There are still many things that one cannot do well or at all with anything less than a Mac Pro and a huge monitor. I like the idea of stacked Mac Minis (NeXT could be expanded with up to 4 motherboards) but that doesn't address the expansion slot and other issues easily addressed in a tower config. MacOS X hard/software may not be the biggest wage earner in the family anymore but they are essential in keeping the family together.
post #40 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOSbox-gamer View Post

Aside from that, I'm not saying Apple will re-adopt the old Cube's internal layout (everything coming off of a single main-board), just the Cube's much smaller size volume. It's entirely possible (though not likely) that the next Mac Pro will be fully modular, where users can swap out CPU, GPU, and storage boards at will.

My guess is that won't be the case. I think it will be smaller because they can remove the space for the two ODDs, reduce the PSU size and several other components, but I think it'll still be a tower and one that will offer expansion options.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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