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Upgraded MacBook models expected to highlight WWDC 2013

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
Noted analyst Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities believes Apple will showcase updated MacBook Pro models at its upcoming Worldwide Developers Conference in June, with the most notable upgrade being the move to Intel's next-generation Haswell family of processors.

MacBook Pro


Kuo, who has a reliable track record in predicting Apple's product plans, said in a research note obtained by AppleInsider that while the Cupertino company is likely to bump its current MacBook lineup to Intel's latest platform, speculated upgrades like a MacBook Air with Retina display are unlikely.

While no major design changes are thought to be in store for WWDC, Kuo now thinks Apple will keep the optical drive-toting MacBook Pro alive alongside the company's most advanced MacBook Pro with Retina display and MacBook Air models. The analyst previously forecast Apple would retire the line as it moved to all-Retina product offerings.

"There is still demand in emerging markets, where Internet penetration isn't advanced, for optical disk drives," he said of the 13- and 15-inch non-Retina MacBook Pro. Apple's top-tier MacBook lineup eschewed the previous built-in SuperDrive in a bid to slim down the chassis and cut weight.

For the consumer market, Kuo said the biggest change to the MacBook lineup in 2013 will be the introduction of Intel's Haswell processor, which replaces the Ivy Bridge architecture currently used in the company's computers. Intel recently announced that Haswell will be unveiled on June 3, one day prior to the Computex Taipei trade show.

Kuo believes the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro will begin shipping by the end of the second quarter, close to the forecasted WWDC launch, while the MacBook Pro with Retina display will see release later in the year due to low yield of the notebook's high-resolution panels.

Apple has traditionally used WWDC as an opportunity to launch innovative new products, with last year's event seeing the debut of the 15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display.

WWDC 2013 is scheduled to run from June 10 through 14 at Moscone West in San Francisco. Tickets to the conference sold out in less than two minutes, breaking the previous record of about two hours.
post #2 of 81
I would like to see a 17" rMBP, what a thing of beauty that would be.
post #3 of 81
A new MacBookAir should come.... Maybe not with a retina display but the last design change for MBA was in late 2010...
post #4 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusephe View Post

A new MacBookAir should come.... Maybe not with a retina display but the last design change for MBA was in late 2010...

If there's one thing that's not needed at all it's a MacBook Air design change.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #5 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I would like to see a 17" rMBP, what a thing of beauty that would be.

Not happening.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #6 of 81
I would not be surprised if the next MBPros have BTO options. One traditional version as mentioned in the article with optical and others with an HD /SSD or fusion drive combo in place of the optical drive. My MBP running with that configuration albeit self done, is amazing. I have a 1 TB HD and a 256 GIG SSD boot drive and have the optical as an external when it is (rarely ever) required. The battery life is great as the HD sleeps mostly as all the software and system are on the boot SSD.
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post #7 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If there's one thing that's not needed at all it's a MacBook Air design change.

 

Agreed.

 

Feel free to upgrade those specs, but that beautiful body needs no changing.

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post #8 of 81
I wonder just how good Haswell's graphics performance will be on a Mac when running without the NVidia card.
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post #9 of 81
Celebration of the obvious. The real surprise would be if Apple failed to announce a Haswell MBP.
post #10 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Not happening.

Why do you say that? Because Ming-Chi Kuo would have mentioned it?

post #11 of 81
Discrete graphics processor on the 13" MacBook Pros please.
post #12 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If there's one thing that's not needed at all it's a MacBook Air design change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Agreed.

Feel free to upgrade those specs, but that beautiful body needs no changing.

I would like a MBA design change. Not a fan of that aluminium rim around the display. I'd much rather have it be glass edge to edge.

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post #13 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Not happening.

 

That doesn't mean some of us wouldn't like one! I've accepted that my eventual upgrade will be to a 15" rMBP, however.

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post #14 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I would like to see a 17" rMBP, what a thing of beauty that would be.

I agree.  I'm wondering if they can make the laptops even thinner and lighter.

 

I am also wondering if 802.11ac is going to be introduced this year as well.  That's a technology that's supposed to be finalized.

post #15 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcallows View Post

Discrete graphics processor on the 13" MacBook Pros please.

Is there enough room for it?  I think that was the main problem.

post #16 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



I would like a MBA design change. Not a fan of that aluminium rim around the display. I'd much rather have it be glass edge to edge.

 

There is no glass on MBA right now because of the added weight.  A thinner aluminum bezel would be nice.

post #17 of 81
I know this comment will be met with fire and brimstone, but a touch screen MBA would be superb. I actually like flipping my finger up or down the screen on my iPad/Phone store demo Windows 8 machine, and could never go back. It's an intuitive way to browse and scroll - and a stylus would be even nicer, if the display flipped down flat. Apple must be working on something like this because they have patented it.
post #18 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Not happening.

Well, don't be surprised if they bring it back.   I know they most likely won't, but it would be nice if they did bring that back.  Lots of high end professionals still want those beasts.

 

I personally would like to see a MacMiniPro where they put the high end i5 and i7, with more RAM, storage, and more ports in a slightly large foot print.

 

I also hope they change the case design for the MacPro system.    I would love to see them put an optional redundant power supply and have the ability to be rack mounted as well as the obvious addition of Thunderbolt ports front and back.

 

I hope 802.11ac makes it to this year's lineup.

post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If there's one thing that's not needed at all it's a MacBook Air design change.

Needed, perhaps not, but something tells me that in the not so distant future the 'Air' design will be dropped and replaced with the form from the Retinas. The specs are kind of the same run in a way. They could switch everything to that design and have it as the lower end of the series (with the standard screens, not retina) and then the old school pros would be like a MBP Classic portion.

And I will not be shocked if these are not introduced at WWDC. Last year the software would have outed the new form but that is not likely the case. And they might want the bumps to release before June for the US BTS promo which typically begins in late May, before WWDC

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post #20 of 81

I hope we see the Fusion Drive in the Macbook Pros, either rMBP, or MBP, or both.  At some point, I hope Apple also offers a Fusion Drive with 256GB SSD in addition to the current one with 128GB SSD.

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

Apple must be working on something like this because they have patented it.

Bad assumption to make. Apple has hundreds of patents they have never used in their products, they just license them to others

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post #22 of 81

This news is obviously a rumor but probabilistic speaking, what are the chances Haswell processor MBP will be released in June for WWDC?Usually this news are reliable?

post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

Celebration of the obvious. The real surprise would be if Apple failed to announce a Haswell MBP.

 

The joy of the consumers.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Why do you say that? Because Ming-Chi Kuo would have mentioned it?

 

It kind of seemed to be Apples conviction that the 17" is not the machine they want to build.

 

I hope that it comes back so there is more variation but a retina display on the 17" is questionable because it would be even more pixels to push.

post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


If there's one thing that's not needed at all it's a MacBook Air design change.

 

I don't know, a thinner bezel to accommodate a bigger screen would be kind of nice.

post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Why? What's wrong with the SSD? Personally, I refuse to use spinning drives in my laptops, since they don't respond well to being dropped, unlike the SSDs, which don't care.

I meant "as a BTO."  Nothing wrong with SSD only, if that is what you need and are willing to pay the higher price.  AnandTech did a review of the Fusion Drive, and concluded that 256GB SSD in a Fusion Drive would work very well for many Pro users.

post #26 of 81
The MB Air design is so perfect it's hard to see major changes. One thing, however, might be to move the Power key out of the keyboard grid or give it a flush button (like the MB Pro has); the number of times I accidentally hit the stop/restart key while typing is really annoying!
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzos View Post

....the number of times I accidentally hit the stop/restart key while typing is really annoying!

So true.
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drealoth View Post

I don't know, a thinner bezel to accommodate a bigger screen would be kind of nice.

 

Agree 100%.  Even that somewhat minor detail would have a major impact. Imagine a 14-inch MacBook Air in the same footprint as the current 13 with a thinner bezel?  HOT.

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post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While no major design changes are thought to be in store for WWDC, Kuo now thinks Apple will keep the optical drive-toting MacBook Pro alive alongside the company's most advanced MacBook Pro with Retina display and MacBook Air models.

"There is still demand in emerging markets, where Internet penetration isn't advanced, for optical disk drives," he said of the 13- and 15-inch non-Retina MacBook Pro.

Emerging markets again - no doubt for growth in a market that isn't growing 1rolleyes.gif. The 15" Macbook Pro starts at $1800. If emerging markets can afford that then they don't need a cheaper iPhone. Make up your minds analysts. Also, there is such a thing as an external optical drive - already required for the Macbook Air, which is far more affordable for emerging markets.

It's entirely possible they'll keep the old models for another year but not because of the optical drive. It would be nice to see the Retina models drop dramatically in price (not for people who bought one last year of course as it dramatically lowers resale value) but it's quite a long way to drop ($300 for the entry 13") so it's not trivial to get rid of the old one.

They have to get rid of them eventually so it's just a matter of when it's cost-effective to do it. The mid-cycle $200 price drop was unexpected:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/28/killer-deal-13-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-falls-to-1299

and resellers can obviously sell at a reasonable profit at $1299. Apple could drop the entry model to $1299 and have the faster one at say $1599. Having a 128GB 15" IGP model for Haswell would make the $400 drop for the 15" easier to do although I wouldn't like to see the 15" Pro start with 128GB.
post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

How big do you think it is? I am sure it was purely a cost consideration, since otherwise there would be no difference between the 13" and the 15" machines (functionality-wise or cost-wise)...

I think the main reasons are size, cooling, and power consumption--not cost. Haswell's integrated GPU doubles the performance of Ivy Bridge, which is already good enough to run OS X. Apple is more likely to eliminate the discrete GPU on the 15" model than they are to add one to the 13". Remember that in the old days, floating point math was done by a discrete component, as was memory management. Nowadays those features are built into the CPU. The future brings more integration, not less. Integrated GPUs will be the norm for all but the very high end.

post #31 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

Fire and brimstone may be excessive, but this would require a major redesign of the OS X UI (and I personally think the touch paradigm does not work as well over a keyboard).

I know two people with iPads and a wireless keyboard connected via bluetooth.  It is perfectly natural to touch the screen sometimes for an operation, e.g.scrolling.  I think this is the future for laptops in some way.

post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

Why? What's wrong with the SSD? Personally, I refuse to use spinning drives in my laptops, since they don't respond well to being dropped, unlike the SSDs, which don't care.

Who said there was anything wrong with an SSD? Fusion Drive is an SSD+HDD essentially in a special RAID 0 configuration. This allows for SSD speeds with HDD like storage at a fraction of the cost of an SSD setup of that capacity.

And what's this new argument that HDDs don't respond well to being dropped? What computer components do respond well to being drop? Are you saying that notebooks can't be successful if they have an HDD in them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

How big do you think it is? I am sure it was purely a cost consideration, since otherwise there would be no difference between the 13" and the 15" machines (functionality-wise or cost-wise)...

How can you be so sure when there is no room for the dGPU, fan, other cooling elements, or larger battery. It's not just not possible without reducing certain components, removing some components, or enlarging the size of the current device.

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post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I think the main reasons are size, cooling, and power consumption--not cost. Haswell's integrated GPU doubles the performance of Ivy Bridge, which is already good enough to run OS X. Apple is more likely to eliminate the discrete GPU on the 15" model than they are to add one to the 13". Remember that in the old days, floating point math was done by a discrete component, as was memory management. Nowadays those features are built into the CPU. The future brings more integration, not less. Integrated GPUs will be the norm for all but the very high end.

I agree. I can see them off a less expensive 15' MBP without a dGPU and then the more expensive models with the dGPU options before they shoehorn a dGPU into the 13" MBPs when it's never had one and the iGPU will be faster under Haswell than it's ever been.

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post #34 of 81
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
Why do you say that? Because Ming-Chi Kuo would have mentioned it?

 

Because they got rid of the model.


Originally Posted by Oflife View Post
I know this comment will be met with fire and brimstone, but a touch screen MBA would be superb.

 

Have they changed the definition of 'superb' recently? It would be "superb" for exactly five minutes. Then you'd whine about your arms being tired.


…a stylus would be even nicer, if the display flipped down flat.

 

So go buy a piece of crap Windows machine that does this and you'll see why it just doesn't work.


 Apple must be working on something like this because they have patented it.

 

That's the complete opposite of the truth.


Originally Posted by mazzy89 View Post
…what are the chances Haswell processor MBP will be released in June for WWDC?

 

Given that there is a rumor about it happening, I'd say a pretty good chance. I'm not sure how that's even a question… because of the rumor about it.

 

Some of the 'performance' models come out on May 27 with others in Q3 2013. None of the chips on that chart are the ones Apple uses, though.

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post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



I would like a MBA design change. Not a fan of that aluminium rim around the display. I'd much rather have it be glass edge to edge.

 

There is no glass on MBA right now because of the added weight.  A thinner aluminum bezel would be nice.

I've always kind of liked the aluminum bezel on the Air. It gives it this extra cool (temperature not attitude) Leica look to it.

I would love it though if they could possibly squeeze a larger screen into the same "11 inch" model body. But that would probably change the contour of the lid edge (as if also would if they were to move to a retina screen)

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onexy View Post

The joy of the consumers.
Haswell laptops should be an obvious upgrade. What I don't get about this analyst is his suggestion that the retina MBP won't be upgraded at the same time due to yield issues on the screen. First it is a processor bump so that should not be held up by an issue with the screens. Second if they are still having screen production issues a year later then maybe Apple needs to attack that problem more agressively.
Quote:

It kind of seemed to be Apples conviction that the 17" is not the machine they want to build.
Apple has never said such a thing. In fact they have been rather quiet with respect to the suspension of 17" production.
Quote:
I hope that it comes back so there is more variation but a retina display on the 17" is questionable because it would be even more pixels to push.
Which souldnt be a problem with the next round of GPUs.

I'm not sure what motivated Apple to suspend 17" production, but I could see it coming back. It isn't like they have said with out reservation the machine is dead forever.
post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I think the main reasons are size, cooling, and power consumption--not cost. Haswell's integrated GPU doubles the performance of Ivy Bridge, which is already good enough to run OS X. Apple is more likely to eliminate the discrete GPU on the 15" model than they are to add one to the 13". Remember that in the old days, floating point math was done by a discrete component, as was memory management. Nowadays those features are built into the CPU. The future brings more integration, not less. Integrated GPUs will be the norm for all but the very high end.

"Haswell's integrated GPU doubles the performance of Ivy Bridge, which is already good enough to run OS X."

 

That depends on which version of the Haswell processor you're referring to.  If it's the Haswell GT3e processor with the embedded DRAM then I agree. Supposedly, that specific version of Haswell does have GPU performance equivalent to Nvidia's GT650 mobile GPU.  If you're referring to any Haswell processor lower than that, then there's no guarantee of double performance.  Yes, they will be faster than Ivy Bridge, but necessarily 2X faster.

post #38 of 81

They need to dump the optical drive on all models. This is 2013, and these analyst's fascination with "emerging markets" is downright disgusting. There will always be regions of the world where internet access is not up to date, so screw them. Why should Apple be making it's machines worse, just because of a microscopic minority? That makes no sense at all. And if somebody does live in the middle of nowhere, and they can afford a Macbook Pro, then they can certainly afford to buy an external optical drive. Does it make more sense to inconvenience three people or 3 million people? Analysts aren't the brightest people around.

 

I will never buy any Apple laptop in the future, as long as it still has an optical drive included.

post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Apple has never said such a thing. In fact they have been rather quiet with respect to the suspension of 17" production.

Which souldnt be a problem with the next round of GPUs.

I'm not sure what motivated Apple to suspend 17" production, but I could see it coming back. It isn't like they have said with out reservation the machine is dead forever.

It wouldn't be the first time that Apple delayed the 17" release over the smaller versions. It would be the first time they have gone this long between 17" update or without a 17" on the market. It's suspect they haven't told the 17" market that they are planning to update it once the iGPU is powerful enough to run a 3840x2400 display. That's higher than a 4K display. It seems close but 4K is 8.3 million pixels and this doubling for a 17' MBP would be nearly a million more pixels to push.

Perhaps it's to give them time to rewrite OS X to work better with non-doubling pixel density. Meaning, at some point they will update the resolution of their Apple Thnderbolt Displays and iMacs but I don't think they will go with 5120x3200; I think they'll go with a standard 4K when they make the move thereby making the PPI not go from 109 to 218, but only to 163, same as the original iPhone displays.

PS: Note that WQUXGA is a standard size that would match a 17" MBP going Retina. Can the Haswell iGPU handle 9.22 million pixels?

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post #40 of 81
Please let the 13" Retina and non-retina get Haswell GT3e quads.
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