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post #41 of 342
No, I got your point. I found no value in it and chose to take it literally instead. I don't want to battle your ridiculous false equivalencies today.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #42 of 342

lol.gif

 

Ahhh, good old BR. When someone points out his hypocrisy he waves either the "false equivalency" flag or (usually incorrectly) the Tu Quoque flag as his escape clause seemingly enabling him to engage in any number of hypocrisies while attempting to badger anyone calling him on it.

 

Intellectual dishonesty in its purest form.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #43 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

So Hands, you obviously have a problem with Muslims, regardless of nationality. What would be your solution for dealing with (what the US powers-that-be) see as "The Muslim Problem"?

I don't have a "problem with muslims". I personally believe they're wrong about certain religious matters, but the same can be said for other religions or beliefs too. That said, Islam is the most hateful and evil of all the worlds beliefs there has ever been, up there with the nazis, but worse. It's organised on a much larger scale too, with a 1,400 year plus history. Individual muslims though, include many people who want to moderate their brothers and sisters Islamic beliefs, even using the Quran to do it. I must admit though, I am sceptical of their motives. Perhaps they are more than happy to see Sharia forced on Europe, or any other place they wish to dominate, so long as they, say, allow women to freely work and they get to listen to pop music. The idea that the more moderate one's are innocent is naive. Islam makes it clear how violent and oppressive it is. But we need the moderates, without them we really would be at war with Islam.

 

I don't know what the best policies for defeating Islam in Europe, say, are. I'm reading about different things, but need to read more. The last thing I personally want is more hardship and suffering for muslims. Their religion has deprived them already of truth and strength, denying them that even more seems counterintuitive to their liberation, which ultimately is the only lasting solution.


Edited by Hands Sandon - 5/7/13 at 4:35pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #44 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

As much as I don't like the idea of Islamophobia, we also aren't experiencing what Europe is right now.  Imagine if hardline Christians in this country in communities (like San Francisco) in which they are the complete minority demanded their biblical values be legislated (you know, more than they already do now), and made good on their "2nd Amendment solutions." 

 

It's a religious extremist problem.  Israelis experience this in Israel in ultra-orthodox neighborhoods, too.  Hell, whole states are on the path toward the Christian version of Sharia Law with their draconic measures against women's rights and education.  I think it's a religious extremist problem more than anything else.

If Christians wanted to behead or crucify you under blasphemy laws you might have a point, but instead you compare relatively extremely moderate Christians, to extreme muslims. The numbers of extreme muslims are also very high, even in places like the UK.

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #45 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

If Christians wanted to behead or crucify you under blasphemy laws you might have a point, but instead you compare relatively extremely moderate Christians, to extreme muslims. 

They want to restrict sex education and birth control, then force women to carry fetuses to term, some not even wanting to make a life-of-the-mother exemption.  Others are interested in harming, threatening to harm, or have harmed doctors that perform abortion procedures.  

 

You are kidding yourself if you call those Christians moderate.  

 

Just yesterday the FBI stopped an anti-government extremists from carrying out acts of terror.  

 

It's not just a racist, sexist religion.  It's not just a paranoid political ideology.  It's extremism.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #46 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

lol.gif

 

Ahhh, good old BR. When someone points out his hypocrisy he waves either the "false equivalency" flag or (usually incorrectly) the Tu Quoque flag as his escape clause seemingly enabling him to engage in any number of hypocrisies while attempting to badger anyone calling him on it.

 

Intellectual dishonesty in its purest form.

Or, perhaps, you are drawn to false equivalencies as a moth to flame.  Maybe, just maybe, you just don't like getting called out on your bullshit and this is your pathetic attempt at deflecting attention away from it.  Some cockroaches scurry to dark corners when the light is shined on them.  You're standing up and hissing.  That doesn't change what you are and what you're doing.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #47 of 342

No. It's that you are claiming a "false" equivalency on something because you don't like what the real equivalency says about you and your positions and worldview.

 

The simple fact is that you demand that people legislate your values and enforce them by law while railing against others who do the same. Just be a man and admit your hypocrisy. It's clear for all to see already.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #48 of 342

Ah, the fallacy of the faulty comparison with a dose of Dunning Kruger thrown in.  Classic MJ.

 

Oh look, I can oversimplify things, too.  You want something.  Obama wants something.  You both want things.  Ergo, you're Obama.  Why do you fight so hard against the man you are?

 

It's the things that you want and the "values" I want legislated that make all the difference.  You are too fucking obtuse, willfully ignorant, or full of hyperpartisan bullshit to see that.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #49 of 342

The values you want legislated are good, but the values others want legislated are bad, as determined by you.

 

You're priceless in your fallacious thinking.

 

In any case, you're clearly not man enough to admit your hypocrisy in this.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #50 of 342

I would argue that more knowledge about sexual reproduction is superior to both less knowledge and untruths.  There exists empirical evidence to support comprehensive sexual education over abstinence-only sex education.  It's even worse when the psychologically damaging slut-shaming is built into the abstinence-only curriculum, either blatantly or as the omnipresent subtext.

 

There is no hypocrisy here to say that comprehensive sexual education is superior to abstinence-only.  I damn well will point out the higher STI and unplanned pregnancy rates among those who are "taught" abstinence-only (conservative slut-shaming) practices.  Empirical evidence says your false equivalence is a false equivalence and that you are talking out of your ass.

 

Thanks for playing, MJ.  You lose.  Go home.

 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #51 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I would argue...

 

I know what you would argue. None of this changes the simple (and hypocritical) fact that you demand legislation of your values while complaining about others who do the same.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

There is no hypocrisy here to say that comprehensive sexual education is superior to abstinence-only.

 

So you really didn't get the point. Got it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Thanks for playing, MJ.  You lose.

 

1oyvey.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Go home.

 

Nah. I have too much fun pointing out your profound intellectual and moral flaws. Besides, it doesn't take much effort.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #52 of 342

Part of me feels sorry for you that you actually believe that last part.  I'm sorry that our educational system and culture failed you growing up.  You have missed the point entirely and continue to repeat your faulty comparison.  Time to end the cycle.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #53 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Part of me feels sorry for you that you actually believe that last part.

 

That I "believe" it doesn't take much effort to point out your profound moral and intellectual flaws? This isn't belief. I know that it doesn't take much effort.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm sorry that our educational system and culture failed you growing up.

 

1rolleyes.gif

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You have missed the point entirely and continue to repeat your faulty comparison.

 

OK. So you're not man enough to admit that you demand that we legislate your values while simultaneously criticizing others for doing the same. Got it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #54 of 342

tumblr_mbzxt23X8c1r3zat8.jpg

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #55 of 342
Thread Starter 

How things stand for the fallen- 

 

"7. How military brass, while prohibiting any mention of a Judeo-Christian God, invited a Muslim cleric to the funeral for the fallen Navy SEAL Team VI heroes who disparaged in Arabic the memory of these servicemen by damning them as infidels to Allah. A video of the Muslim cleric’s “prayer” will be shown with a certified translation."

http://press.org/events/navy-seal-team-vi-families

 

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #56 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

As much as I don't like the idea of Islamophobia, we also aren't experiencing what Europe is right now.  Imagine if hardline Christians in this country in communities (like San Francisco) in which they are the complete minority demanded their biblical values be legislated (you know, more than they already do now), and made good on their "2nd Amendment solutions." 

 

It's a religious extremist problem.  Israelis experience this in Israel in ultra-orthodox neighborhoods, too.  Hell, whole states are on the path toward the Christian version of Sharia Law with their draconic measures against women's rights and education.  I think it's a religious extremist problem more than anything else.

 

Call me when the riot police are engaged because tens of thousands of "hardline Christians" and "ultra-orthodox Jews" are on a rampage burning down shops, vehicles and fighting days-long battles with police.

 

Until then, the problem is more about people who blatantly lie about the facts than anything else.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
post #57 of 342

Sure, let's wait until it gets to that point.  That's smart.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #58 of 342

Frank, I think BR is right. We shouldn't wait until someone actually commits a crime or perpetrates violence. We need to take measures before that, right now even, to neutralize people who we think might do such things.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #59 of 342

And by taking measures I simply mean not allowing Christians to legislate the trampling on the rights of women and gays through educating the populace and winning elections.  Of course, MJ et al would never admit that's my goal.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #60 of 342

Oh I know what your goals are. You've been very clear about this: You want to prevent some people from trampling the rights (some of which are not actual rights) while retaining for yourself the privilege and freedom to trample other people's rights.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #61 of 342
Thread Starter 

Canadian muslims deny the murder of 1.5 million Christians in Turkey-

 

"OTTAWA – The annual Armenian Genocide Memorial Day protest in front of the Turkish embassy was met with 50 Turkish-Canadian counter-protesters denying the well-established actuality of the Armenian Genocide. The group quickly turned to singing and jubilant chanting at the face of the Armenians.

 

The Armenian Genocide is the first modern genocide of the 20th century, during which an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were killed by the Ottoman Empire leadership in an attempt to rid it’s Christian minority.

 

Countless international organizations, scholars (such as the International Association of Genocide Scholars) and 22 countries have formally recognized these massacres during World War One as Genocide. The Canadian parliament passed a motion in 2004 acknowledging the Armenian Genocide and condemned these crimes against humanity.

 

Afterwards, the Turkish group was invited into the Turkish embassy by Ambassador Tuncay Babali. In an attempt to undermine Canada’s domestic policies, the ambassador recently held an interview with the Canadian Press indicating that Turkey will limit economic developments with Canada unless the government reverses its position on the Armenian Genocide"

http://www.ayfcanada.org/press-releases/turkish-canadian-groups-celebrate-armenian-genocide/

 

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #62 of 342
Thread Starter 

Nazi's or Islam?

 

Images-nazism-0024.jpgImages-nazism-0027.jpgImages-nazism-0026.jpgHizbollah nazi salute.jpgImages-nazism-0022.jpgHizbollah nazi salute 2.jpgImages-nazism-0021.jpgImages-nazism-0020.jpgImages-nazism-0019.jpgImages-nazism-0018.jpgImages-nazism-0008.jpgImages-nazism-0013.jpgImages-nazism-0012.jpgImages-nazism-0007.jpgImages-nazism-0006.jpgImages-nazism-0004.jpgImages-nazism-0001.jpgImages-nazism-0003.jpg

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #63 of 342

Almost as bad as Christians and conservatives incorrectly blaming the deaths caused by Hitler & Stalin on atheism.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #64 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Almost as bad as Christians and conservatives incorrectly blaming the deaths caused by Hitler & Stalin on atheism.

I'm not blaming what the Nazi's did on Islam, simply highlighting the links through photographs.

 

That said, the Armenian genocide helped Hitler formulate his plan for the jews. The Armenian genocide was the first time cattle cars where used to transport people to their deaths too.

 

 

Here's another reason why Hillary Clinton and Obama are a disgrace. Can you imagine the uproar if they denied the holocaust?- 


Edited by Hands Sandon - 5/11/13 at 5:17pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #65 of 342

YOU ARE ALL SICKOS WHO POST THIS!
 

post #66 of 342

In April 1992, the U.S. and European Community chose to recognize the independence of Bosnia, a mostly Muslim country where the Serb minority made up 32 percent of the population. Milosevic responded to Bosnia's declaration of independence by attacking Sarajevo, its capital city. Sarajevo soon became known as the city where Serb snipers continually shot down helpless civilians in the streets, including eventually over 3,500 children (Genocid.org 2005)

Bosnian Muslims were hopelessly outgunned. As the Serbs gained ground, they began to systematically roundup local Muslims in scenes eerily similar to those that had occurred under the Nazis during World War II, including mass shootings, forced repopulation of entire towns, and confinement in make-shift concentration camps for men and boys. The Serbs also terrorized Muslim families into fleeing their villages by using rape as a weapon against women and girls.

The actions of the Serbs were labeled as 'ethnic cleansing,' a name which quickly took hold among the international media. Despite media reports of the secret camps, the mass killings, as well as the destruction of Muslim mosques and historic architecture in Bosnia, the world community remained mostly indifferent. 

The U.N. responded by imposing economic sanctions on Serbia and also deployed its troops to protect the distribution of food and medicine to dispossessed Muslims. But the U.N. strictly prohibited its troops from interfering militarily against the Serbs. Thus they remained steadfastly neutral no matter how bad the situation became.   Throughout 1993, confident that the U.N., United States and the European Community would not take militarily action, Serbs in Bosnia freely committed genocide against Muslims (Genocid.org 2005). 

At least 200,000 Muslims were slaughtered and 20 million became refugees in allegedly "civilized" Europe only a few years ago, while the corporate media smirked and the US government looked on with a wry smile.

 

*

 

Over 50,000 Rohingya Muslims have been massacred in Burma as tensions flared on June 3 and brutal killings and arrests of Muslims continued, however the international community, human rights organizations and United Nations (predictably) have done nothing.....

 

*

 

 

This week a man deeply embedded in the Obama administration, Virginia-based military instructor Lieutenant Colonel Matthew Dooley, raised the spectre of a disturbing American Islamophobic trend once again, when he virtually called for a “Hiroshima, Nagasaki” – style “destruction” of the holy Islamic sites of Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia.

 

Within what Dooley described to his increasingly nervous classroom last month as a potential “Counter-Jihad Op Model” for the U.S. he spoke of the need to reach a position where “Saudi Arabia [is] threatened with starvation, Mecca and Medina destroyed [and] Islam is reduced to cult status.”

 

When several students raised objections and brought the material to the notice of superiors in late April, the Department of Defence (DOD) suspended the course and was also said to have suspended Dooley, although he reportedly still has his job teaching at a city college in Norfolk.

 

*

 

 

BAGHDAD - A senior U.N. official said Friday about half a million children under the age of 5 have died in Iraq since the imposition of U.N. sanctions 10 years ago. Anupama Rao Singh, country director for the U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF), made the estimate in an interview with Reuters. "In absolute terms we estimate that perhaps about half a million children under 5 years of age have died, who ordinarily would not have died had the decline in mortality that was prevalent over the 70s and the 80s continued through the 90s,'' she said. A UNICEF survey published in August showed the mortality rate among Iraqi children under 5 had more than doubled in the government-controlled south and center of Iraq during the sanctions. Baghdad said the UNICEF survey proved that the sanctions were killing thousands of children every month and called for an immediate end to the embargo. Rao Sigh blamed malnutrition for the high mortality rate among children. "Nutrition was not a public health problem in Iraq in the 80s. It emerged as a major problem in the 90s and it increased steadily till about 1996,'' Singh said.

 

*

 

Just a random sampling. A thread called "Islam Watch" should include information about the persecution/genocide/terrorism against/etc.etc. Muslim people at the hands of those who hate.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #67 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And by taking measures I simply mean not allowing Christians to legislate the trampling on the rights of women and gays through educating the populace and winning elections.  Of course, MJ et al would never admit that's my goal.

BTW, this question has been put to you dozens of times but how do you propose to "not allow them to legislate" without denying rights? Legislation is the process and by denying them that, you relegate them to second class status. This isn't going above or beyond the law. You're saying they can't be allowed to weigh in on or help make laws.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #68 of 342
Thread Starter 

@islammi jo

 

These are all horrendous examples of attacks on muslims and I assure you I won't call you a Christianphobe for posting about them. That said I will correct your figures. You say, "At least 200,000 Muslims were slaughtered and 20 million became refugees", which is total bollocks. Only 2.2 million became refugees and in the whole war only around 100,000 people were killed on both sides, and nearly all through conventional warfare, not the "slaughtering" which implies defenceless people being killed. Nearly 10,000 muslims were actually "slaughtered". Too many for sure.

 

But lets now look at the genocide against Christians by Indonesia's muslims in East Timor- 

 

"While Obama found time to blast Israel for building housing in Jerusalem, he made no mention of the Indonesian genocide in East Timor. No word about the Indonesian mass murder of between 100,000 to 200,000 people in a country whose population totaled little more than half a million. Shortly after Obama left Jakarta, the Indonesian regime began an occupation that lasted until 1999. An occupation armed and aided by successive US administrations.

 

But there is a reason you won’t hear about the meat hooks where Indonesian backed militias hung their victims, before mutilating and killing them. You won’t hear about the fields of the dead where the corpses of men, women and children were piled into mass graves. You won’t hear of the machete squads who hacked people to death in full public view and on video. You certainly won’t hear about the ethnic cleansing, the mass deportations, the gang rapes or even the murder of Western reporters.

 

The Kopassus special forces, Indonesia’s answer to the German SS, are still out and about. In 1998, Kopassus thugs gang raped hundreds of Chinese women in Jakarta. Some were burnt alive. The victims were as young as 10 years old and some were thrown into burning buildings afterward. The attackers proclaimed to their victims, “You must be raped because you are Chinese and non-Muslim.”

And because of that, because the perpetrators were Muslim and the victims non-Muslim, the whole thing was quickly swept under the rug.

This is the real Jakarta, the city of Barack Hussein Obama’s nostalgia. It’s the ugly truth lurking behind his “exotic” biography. During his remarks with the Indonesian President, Obama got laughs when he mentioned how much Jakarta had changed since he was there. Of course one of the reasons for those changes is that the 1998 riots torched many non-Muslim businesses. The ‘joke’ was akin to mentioning how different Berlin looks since Kristalnacht."

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/29773

 

 

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #69 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

@islammi jo

 

These are all horrendous examples of attacks on muslims and I assure you I won't call you a Christianphobe for posting about them.

 

 

 

Islammi? You've already resorted to name-calling...   4th grade stuff. What's next.... down to pre-school level with "conspiracy theorist"?

 

 

 

Quote:

That said I will correct your figures. You say, "At least 200,000 Muslims were slaughtered and 20 million became refugees", which is total bollocks. Only 2.2 million became refugees and in the whole war only around 100,000 people were killed on both sides, and nearly all through conventional warfare, not the "slaughtering" which implies defenceless people being killed. 

 

In July 1995, in just one town (Srebrenica), the number of victims were "at least 8,000 Muslim men and boys". Sounds like a mass execution for sure.

 

Anyway, all the figures from that region's conflict are disputed, including ones you (and I) quoted from wikipedia.

 
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #70 of 342

Oh...and the US gets in on the killing spree big time... this latest report from Brown University put the number of Muslims (vast majority being non-combatants) killed there in recent years as approaching a quarter of a million (225,000). That's equivalent to seventy-five (75) September 11 attacks, one every 6 weeks, in a series lasting 10 years or more.... all against the people of countries which DID NOT ATTACK THE UNITED STATES ON 9/11/2001. Other estimates range from 600,000+ in 2006 (Lancet) to over 1 million in a UK study

 

And in Fallujah....  

 

Dramatic increases in infant mortality, cancer and leukaemia in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, which was bombarded by US Marines in 2004, exceed those reported by survivors of the atomic bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, according to a new study.

 

Iraqi doctors in Fallujah have complained since 2005 of being overwhelmed by the number of babies with serious birth defects, ranging from a girl born with two heads to paralysis of the lower limbs. They said they were also seeing far more cancers than they did before the battle for Fallujah between US troops and insurgents.

 

****

 

To speak for a large section of the US public (and politicians), especially in red states, they're just brownskinned people of an alien culture and faith - and deserve to die?


Edited by sammi jo - 5/12/13 at 10:41pm
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #71 of 342

I feel like creating a thread named "ZIONIST WATCH", but I'm afraid to finish my days in Guantanamo Bay

post #72 of 342

Like I said a bunch of nuts!
 

post #73 of 342

Give it a Fucking Rest!

post #74 of 342
Thread Starter 

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #75 of 342

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #76 of 342
Thread Starter 

I agree with both you and islammi jo with the recent points you're making. Indeed I think Ron Paul has shown the best way for the US to engage militarily around the world, ie, much less so. But don't let that make you turn a blind eye to the problems that Islam is producing. The only posts other mine, and briefly from BR, here, have been to ignore or to make crazy stifling and inflammatory false accusations, particularly you and islammi jo in this and other threads. islammi jo can't even take a lighthearted joke about her username, and yet she has no qualms about calling me a bigot and worse. 

 

What this tells me is you've been brainwashed by the media to shut up about criticising Islam. Your silence, indifference and stifling tactics are making things worse. You have become a part of the problem, and fortunately in Europe where things are far worse than in the US, people are rapidly speaking out and learning about the problems, so we can make positive changes in how we deal with the Islamic threat. In twenty years time or so, when Americas fastest growing religion, Islam, has recruited Mexicans and other races making a big voter base in the US, you'll start thinking and debating the issue in an adult way. Hopefully at that point you'll look to Europe for positive ways to peacefully deal with it. 

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #77 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

But don't let that make you turn a blind eye to the problems that Islam is producing.

 

I have a bit of a problem with the broad categorization here of "Islam" as whole. Perhaps you are right that Islam is the problem. I highly suspect though that it is a) extremist factions who adhere to an interpretation of Islamic beliefs and commands that is out of line with what most mainstream Muslims and what the Islamic faith teaches. I sense that what you are doing is something like someone pointing to the bigots at Westboro Baptist Church and calling that Christianity and painting all Christians with that brush. Again, perhaps I'm wrong about Islam and it is, in fact, not a religion of peace but of violence. I do believe that certain ideas, ideologies, beliefs and worldviews can lead people to doing very bad things. There's really no doubt of this. I'm a bit hesitant to label more than a billion people until I learn more that convinces me it is inherently a religion of violence and that Islam itself is the the problem as opposed to a minority mis-interpreting it or using it for violent ends.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

islammi jo can't even take a lighthearted joke about her username, and yet she has no qualms about calling me a bigot and worse.

 

Well, your name-calling was kinda rude and your posts appear to strongly suggest a bigoted and prejudicial outlook.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

What this tells me is you've been brainwashed by the media to shut up about criticising Islam.

 

I guess you are free to believe what you like about my "media brainwashing." The problem you have there is that I consume and view mainstream incredible skepticism. What's especially amusing about this accusation is that I have actually viewed the mainstream media as complicit in demonizing certain Muslims (or certain Muslim countries) in support of the war state and their war president while being conspicuously silent about the actions of the State of Israel, let alone the violence the U.S. has visited on predominantly Muslim countries.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your silence, indifference and stifling tactics are making things worse.

 

And your assumptions about me (and others) is making things much worse.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You have become a part of the problem...

 

And now you return to blaming other people for actions they are not even remotely involved with or responsible for.


Edited by MJ1970 - 5/13/13 at 8:36am

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #78 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I have a bit of a problem with the broad categorization here of "Islam" as whole. Perhaps you are right that Islam is the problem. I highly suspect though that it is a) extremist factions who adhere to an interpretation of Islamic beliefs and commands that is out of line with what most mainstream Muslims and what the Islamic faith teaches. I sense that what you are doing is something like someone pointing to the bigots at Westboro Baptist Church and calling that Christianity and painting all Christians with that brush. Again, perhaps I'm wrong about Islam and it is, in fact, not a religion of peace but of violence. I do believe that certain ideas, ideologies, beliefs and worldviews can lead people to doing very bad things. There's really no doubt of this. I'm a bit hesitant to label more than a billion people until I learn more that convinces me it is inherently a religion of violence and that Islam itself is the the problem as opposed to a minority mis-interpreting it or using it for violent ends.

 

 

 

Well, your name-calling was kinda rude and your posts appear to strongly suggest a bigoted and prejudicial outlook.

 

 

 

I guess you are free to believe what you like about my "media brainwashing." The problem you have there is that I consume and view mainstream incredible skepticism. What's especially amusing about this accusation is that I have actually viewed the mainstream media as complicit in demonizing certain Muslims (or certain Muslim countries) in support of the war state and their war president while being conspicuously silent about the actions of the State of Israel, let alone the violence the U.S. has visited on predominantly Muslim countries.

 

 

 

And your assumptions about me (and others) is making things much worse.

 

 

 

And now you return to blaming other people for actions they are not even remotely involved with or responsible for.

mj if your going to accuse me of being a bigot, please post a quote of mine that you think shows that, otherwise please stop with the insult.

 

The koran calls for extreme violence, it's Islam. There are lots of books on it and long video's freely available on YouTube, one's by Robert Spencer are especially informative, that you might want to read or watch. Like you I don't hate muslims or think that all muslims are evil. There are good and bad people in any religion, and I'm quite sure Islam has as many good people as any other faith.

 

The way I see it is that Islam does teach people to kill gays (Iran alone has killed over 4,000 gays over the last few decades in extremely cruel ways), stone to death adulterers, kill apostates, blasphemers and non-muslims, and generally violate and subdue women. Fortunately, lots of muslims recognise that their own religions teachings are evil and barbaric, and they therefore don't follow their own religion. They have the humanity not to. But around the world, and indeed in Europe, there are increasingly those who do want to live by the koran. The moderates simply ignore the parts that are more violent and oppressive. The danger is, that the moderates, in say Europe and the US, will adopt a stricter adherence  to Islam as their numbers increase and their power in society increases, eventually making those place more like their home countries.


Edited by Hands Sandon - 5/13/13 at 2:36pm
"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

post #79 of 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

mj if your going to accuse me of being a bigot, please post a quote of mine that you think shows that, otherwise please stop with the insult.

 

Sure.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The koran calls for extreme violence, it's Islam. There are lots of books on it and long video's freely available on YouTube by Robert Spencer that you might want to read or watch. Like you I don't hate muslims or think that all muslims are evil. There are good and bad people in any religion, and I'm quite sure Islam has as many good people as any other faith.

 

Though they must not be good Muslims if they are good people (and vice versa).

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The way I see it is that Islam does teach people to kill gays (Iran alone has killed over 4,000 gays over the last few decades in extremely cruel ways), stone to death adulterers, kill apostates, blasphemers and non-muslims, and generally violate and subdue women. Fortunately, lots of muslims recognise that their own religions teachings are evil and barbaric, and they therefore don't follow their own religion. They have the humanity not to. But around the world, and indeed in Europe, there are increasingly those who do want to live by the koran. The koran is clear on this. The moderates simply ignore the parts that are more violent and oppressive.

 

Okay.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The danger is, that the moderates, in say Europe and the US, will adopt a stricter adherence  to Islam as their numbers increase and their power in society increases, eventually making those place more like their home countries.

 

How do propose dealing with this danger?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

post #80 of 342
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

Sure.

 

 

 

Though they must not be good Muslims if they are good people (and vice versa).

 

 

 

Okay.

 

 

 

How do propose dealing with this danger?

You linked to this whole thread to justify calling me a bigot! That just goes to show that you either haven't read what I've posted, or more likely you're uncomfortable talking about the threats from Islam, and so resort to name calling. I suspect I'm a lot more open minded and indeed welcoming that many muslims in many parts of the world including many in Europe and the US. I certainly don't want to kill them.

 

People justify their insanely cruel punishments in the Islamic world to themselves through Islam. They think they're doing good, I don't, and I'm horrified that you would think that makes me either a bigot or someone that simply derides people as being "bad" for no other reason than bigotry. 

 

I really don't know how to deal with the problem. I'm of course open to trying to encourage muslims who take a more moderate approach, but that only does so much good. The problem of having countries like Germany, the Netherlands and many other European countries being more than 50% muslim in the coming years is truly appalling. There has to be a serious reduction in immigration to Europe by muslims and there also has to be much better integration of the one's who are already here. Europe is now full of no go areas for non-muslims, and especially Jews. Islam and Europe are not mixing well at all.

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

"I have been made victorious by terror~ Muhammad

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam," ~ Barack Obama

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