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Apple's 'flypaper-like' ecosystem viewed as an undervalued asset - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

...

(*) Nicely ignoring the fact that Apple was okay with some screen trade-offs for the first iPad mini model.

 

There was no previous iPad mini, so therefore there were no tradeoffs.

But a Retina iPad mini with shorter battery life, or vastly larger battery, or vastly higher price tag?

There are your tradeoffs.

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post #42 of 65
I don't understand why anyone needs or wants a bigger iPhone. The iPhone is primarily a mobile phone. It needs to fit in my pocket. I think these bigger phones look cheap and nasty and their users look like village idiots. When I want a bigger screen for browsing etc. I use an iPad.
post #43 of 65
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post
I don't understand as a typical ignorant consumer what is the big deal about making a iPhone with a bigger screen. The iPhone 5 already stretched the 4's screen vertically. Just stretch it now also horizontally. Why is this so hard? Answer: it's not. Apple just doesn't want to do it.

 

That's right. Apple doesn't want to make a piece of absolutely worthless crap, usable by no one.


Originally Posted by Applehawk View Post
I don't know why they have to be so secretive on everything though.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

Go to your local mobile store, and check out either the Lumia 920 or the HTC One, and tell me if these look cheap and nasty.

Lumia? Yes.

 

One? The OS does.

post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv View Post

 

Actually, outside the iPhone world, 4.8" at 1920x1080 res seems to be the emerging industry standard.

Yup, that's why you can do the Math abouth a 13" retina MBP's screen on a tiny 5" iPhone.

And the equivalent 15" retina on a 9.7 iPad, while the iPad Mini goes for the 9.7 retina pixel count.

post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by aderutter View Post

I don't understand why anyone needs or wants a bigger iPhone. The iPhone is primarily a mobile phone. It needs to fit in my pocket. I think these bigger phones look cheap and nasty and their users look like village idiots. When I want a bigger screen for browsing etc. I use an iPad.

 

Lemme see if I have this straight -- you don't want a bigger phone because it has to fit in your pocket, so for browsing you take along an iPad. Now you have TWO devices to carry around, one of them being large. How is that better? Personally I'd MUCH rather have just one, larger device that serves both purposes.

 

I agree with you and others who have opined that an iPad mini is too large to be a convenient phone replacement. I would prefer something sized in between the current iPhone and the iPad mini. HOWEVER (and this is how it came up in the first place), it adding a new screen size is not an option for some reason, I would rather have a voice-capable iPad mini than the present size iPhone.

post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's right. Apple doesn't want to make a piece of absolutely worthless crap, usable by no one.

 

Your implication being that making the iPhone screen wider would result in "[...] a piece of absolutely worthless crap, usable by no one," a position I vehemently contest. I submit that if what you say is true, the iPad must be a piece of absolutely worthless crap, usable by no one, because it employs a less-rectangular/more-square aspect ratio.

 

The only argument I can see in defence of a tall, narrow screen is being able to reach corner-to-corner with a thumb while holding it in one hand. Given that the taller screen already makes that almost impossible for many, that argument is weakening. It's also an issue of priorities: which matters more, being able to reach the "Inbox" button with your thumb, or being able to read the contents of a web page? To me, the former ranks as utter fluff compared to the latter. You will also note from the comments on this forum that many people already use two hands to operate their iPhone -- maybe as many as those who use just one -- obviating any reason for keeping the screen skinny.

 

Further, making the iPhone wider could improve development efforts by giving it the same aspect ratio as the iPad, reducing the amount of redesign required to make an app work on both.

 

In a perfect world Apple would recognize that one size does not fit all when it comes to phones any more than with computers. Then you could have your little rectangle and I could have my big square(-ish).

post #48 of 65
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

The only argument I can see in defence of a tall, narrow screen is being able to reach corner-to-corner with a thumb while holding it in one hand.

 

The ability to continue to use a product in a manner that has generally defined its use for the last 130 years, you mean.


Further, making the iPhone wider could improve development efforts by giving it the same aspect ratio as the iPad, reducing the amount of redesign required to make an app work on both.

 

LG makes a 4:3 phone. Roughly half the screen is out of people's reach.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The ability to continue to use a product in a manner that has generally defined its use for the last 130 years, you mean.

 

One-handed usage?

 

 

Besides, smartphones aren't just a phone.  They're an all-in-one phone / internet viewer / game machine / video player / interactive whatchamacallit.   Voice calls are a tiny part of its purpose these days.

post #50 of 65
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
One-handed usage?

 

I fail to see how that model of phone requires two hands. She's holding it by choice, not by necessity.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #51 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I fail to see how that model of phone requires two hands. She's holding it by choice, not by necessity.

 

Actually, it looks like she's doing the old common method of using one hand to jiggle the hook to get the local operator's attention, while listening for her response at the same time from the receiver in her other hand.   Also, it would require two hands if she wanted to carry the phone around the room while talking.

 

--

 

As for the topic of smartphones, I don't know of any, even large ones, that cannot be used one-handed as a phone, which is the century of one-handed usage that you're talking about.

 

Even smaller phones like Apple's are not perfect for one-hand.  For instance, multi-touch gestures usually require more than one hand.  Ever try to unzoom a map on iOS with one hand?  It's very difficult, because double-tap only unzooms part way and sometimes not at all.   Android map apps often include both pinch-zoom and +/- zoom buttons.

 

Speaking of buttons... of course the ultimate one-handed phones are those that rely only on cursor controls, like most older models, or Blackberrys.   No need to reach anywhere across the screen!

post #52 of 65
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
Also, it would require two hands if she wanted to carry the phone around the room while talking.

 

You didn't carry those around. lol.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #53 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The ability to continue to use a product in a manner that has generally defined its use for the last 130 years, you mean.

 

Seriously? You want to compare operating the touchscreen of a portable computer to the century-old method of holding a telephone? We may not have enough common ground to warrant further discussion.

post #54 of 65
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
You want to compare operating the touchscreen of a portable computer to the century-old method of holding a telephone?

 

Nope. I want to compare using a phone and using a phone.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

LG makes a 4:3 phone. Roughly half the screen is out of people's reach.

 

Only to an amputee:

 

 

  

  CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 99 

 

 Mature asian business man holdinh a cell phone. 

 

 

Which part of these various screens are people unable to reach? I don't get it.

post #56 of 65
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
Only to an amputee:

 

No one on Earth has ever carried anything at any time for any reason under any circumstance, nor have they performed any other physical task of any sort while talking on the telephone. Since its invention, every telephone call ever made on every telephone by every human being has been devoted the full, unequivocated attention of said humans for the duration of the entire call.

 

Since that's the case, there has never been any reason for any human to need to use a telephone with a single hand before, during, or after the call. Particularly during, as no phone has the ability to use its other features while on a call, but which is, of course, irrelevant, as one's full attention has always been devoted to said call anyway.


I don't get it.

 

That's obvious.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #57 of 65
Originally Posted by igriv View Post
Every single phone made (including the Note 2) can be held with one hand while making a call…

 

Perhaps I can't remember, but I don't recall being able to dial a number with one hand on that LG I tried out. It was a 5" (or close to) 4:3 screen… 

 

I challenge that statement for more than that phone, though.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You didn't carry those around. lol.gif

 

You are way outside of your experience zone.

 

The log cabin I'm living in now had a party line candlestick when my wife first moved in almost forty years ago.  She had a long cord and walked around with it all the time.

 

Have you never seen a B&W movie where the actor grabbed up the phone to talk?  Heck, it was such a common action that 1920s Hallmark cards drew it that way with kids:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I challenge that statement for more than that phone, though.

 

The Samsung Note phablet even comes with a special one-handed mode for those who want it:

 

post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

The Samsung Note phablet even comes with a special one-handed mode for those who want it:

/video/

You see that as some brilliant solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You see that as some brilliant solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

A phablet is clearly not targeted at one-handed usage.  

 

So no, I don't see it as a "problem" in the first place.  I see adding the mode as a nicety for those who might desire it.

post #61 of 65
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post
A phablet is clearly not targeted at one-handed usage.  

 

And they think they can get away with that by "not calling it a phone".

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #62 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't get it.

 

That's obvious.

 

 

I'm not sure how it's POSSIBLE to get your point. Your position is that a personal computer should have its form factor determined by a conventional telephone. Aside from being akin to basing automotive design on a horse and buggy, and not recognizing how such a form adversely affects some of the device's other functions, it completely ignores the fact that the telephone itself has taken dozens of forms over the years -- some large, some small, some wide, some narrow, some single-handed, some REQUIRING TWO HANDS TO OPERATE -- making it impossible to identify exactly what you're trying to point to as a benchmark.

 

On another subject, it's REALLY hard to remain respectful you when you belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you, especially when you're not even making sense.


Edited by v5v - 5/1/13 at 9:42pm
post #63 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Perhaps I can't remember, but I don't recall being able to dial a number with one hand on that LG I tried out.

 

So? You couldn't dial standard pre-cordless desktop phones with one hande either. So what? Who even DOES that? Look at the pictures I posted -- all those people using their phones with TWO hands!

 

If one-handed use is such a big deal, get a Krzr.

 

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

post #64 of 65
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
Your position is that a personal computer should have its form factor determined by a conventional telephone.

 

Right. Because the iPhone would be so much better if it had an iMac foot on the back¡ Or maybe if it was a square like the Mac Mini¡ Or maybe if it just had a standard 120 computer plug coming out the back into which you could plug an AC power cable¡ What if it had a laptop keyboard and a hinge?¡

 

Or, maybe, because it IS A TELEPHONE, and because that's reflected RIGHT IN THE NAME OF THE PRODUCT, it should be able to be used as one.


On another subject, it's REALLY hard to remain respectful you when you belittle anyone who doesn't agree with you, especially when you're not even making sense.

 

You'll claim it's just more belittling, but pay attention to what I'm saying and it'll make sense. What telephone before Android required two hands to use?


Originally Posted by v5v View Post
You couldn't dial standard pre-cordless desktop phones with one hande either.

 

KDarling will be along soon to tell you you're out of your experience zone.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #65 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

[...]What if it had a laptop keyboard and a hinge?¡

 

Funny you should use that example. I've been looking into ways I could scale up an iPod to allow lightning-fast access to specific tracks. The OS X version of iTunes, combined with a conventional, full-size keyboard, work very well for that.

 

I'd then also like it to be small enough to be an iPod replacement, for watching movies and listening to music on the train. I don't actually have an iPod though, I have an iPhone, so whatever replaces it would have to be cellular data and voice capable.

 

My wife and I would also like a cellular enabled computer for use in the field, but the flat form of the iPad is less desirable than a standard laptop layout for our application.

 

Based on all that, it appears what I want is an 11" MacBook Air but with cellular. So yeah, I actually WOULD like a laptop keyboard and a hinge! Call it the MacBook AirPhone!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Or, maybe, because it IS A TELEPHONE, and because that's reflected RIGHT IN THE NAME OF THE PRODUCT, it should be able to be used as one.

 

Fair point and I don't disagree. Where I disagree is with your assertion that a larger screen means it CAN'T be used as a telephone.

 

I do not accept the argument that one must be able to hold the device in one hand and dial with a thumb in order for it to be used as a telephone. That's never been a requirement of telephone before, is only just barely possible now, is not the way many people use their device anyway, ignores the fact that the device performs many other functions besides being a telephone and a small screen limits their usefulness, and fails to recognize alternative dialling methods that are much more convenient anyway, such as Favourites and voice control.

 

I do not agree that the goals of improved viewing and convenient calling are mutually exclusive.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You'll claim it's just more belittling, but pay attention to what I'm saying and it'll make sense.

 

Phrases like "That's obvious" are clearly not intended to enlighten or persuade, they're just insults.

 

I respect your choices and preferences, as different from my own as they may be, but your often-demeaning tack and smugly dismissive comments tend to shift focus away from what might otherwise be perfectly cogent arguments. I'd enjoy the forum more if you tried harder to play nice.

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