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Apple's $17B six-part bond offering is largest in history [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

Check Gordon90s post.  You obviously fail at reading comprehension...

The stock buyback plan and dividend increase now on the other hand kind of means that "hey we don't have any ideas how to develop great new products so we just hand you out our extra cash and a percentage of our earnings since we won't need it anymore". This more or less means that this exponential growth is over which on the other hand means that this needs to be priced in by the market, i.e. huge drop in the stock price we saw in the last months.


Frankly, I think your comment is quite myopic. You don't know what Apple is going to release this year, and you don't realize that Apple is bringing in considerable money because they've been an innovator, even if it's not to your preferences.

What's your recommendation on what to do with $150 *billion* dollars? What product do you think they need to develop that needs even a fraction of that? Apple buys a lot of companies, but they generally don't pay inflated prices on turkeys, like when eBay bought Skype, or HP bought Autonomy, etc. Apple also uses a few billion to prepay for supplies to get a guaranteed supply chain. Suppliers use that money to expand or improve their manufacturing. But that's billions, not tens or hundreds of billions. They don't need the money and they shouldn't be letting it rot at a 1% return.

They can give 95% of their money to shareholders and not have any effect on their operations.
Edited by JeffDM - 4/30/13 at 1:10pm
post #42 of 54
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Sometimes, it is better to recognize that one was sounding offensive (even if inadvertently), apologize, and move on. 

 

It's a step up from myopism. Instead of failing to see, he isn't even trying. It wasn't offensive.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

- We can bring the cash back, but we have to pay a 35% marginal tax rate on the tax, so we'd reduce our cash by $90 B in order to buy back $60 B in stock.
- If we borrow the money, we only pay a few percent penalty and then pay off the debt from future income. With the cash available overseas, it's low risk both for us and the bond holders. If some problem ever occurs, we can always repatriate the cash later (paying the penalty) to pay off the debt.

In addition, what happens if the US government does allow a tax holiday for repatriated cash? They simply bring the cash back, pay off the debt, and get the best of both worlds.

 

One technical correction:  They wouldn't pay a 35% marginal rate - they'd pay the difference between what they paid in the countries where the earnings accumulated - which I've read would average out to around 10%. 

 

However, I'm sure:

 

1) their bonds will go out well under 10%,

2) they're probably earning something close to what the bonds will cost them in interest, so a wash give or take and

3) having their ears close to the action in the US gov't they may in fact be anticipating something resembling "a tax holiday for repatriated cash."

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

 

Check my posting history; I have repeatedly stated I want to jump back into the iPhone realm.  But won't until they make a bigger screen.  My post was not a troll post but exactly my opinion.  If I jumped to the wrong conclusion then post your thoughts rather than just insulting me.

 

Why isn't your user name "Mole who wants a bigger screen", then?

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Frankly, I think your comment is quite myopic. You don't know what Apple is going to release this year, and you don't realize that Apple is bringing in considerable money because they've been an innovator, even if it's not to your preferences.

What's your recommendation on what to do with $150 *billion* dollars? What product do you think they need to develop that needs even a fraction of that? Apple buys a lot of companies, but they generally don't pay inflated prices on turkeys, like when eBay bought Skype, or HP bought Autonomy, etc. Apple also uses a few billion to prepay for supplies to get a guaranteed supply chain. Suppliers use that money to expand or improve their manufacturing. But that's billions, not tens or hundreds of billions. They don't need the money and they shouldn't be letting it rot at a 1% return.

They can give 95% of their money to shareholders and not have any effect on their operations.

 

What's my recommendation?  Fantastic question!

 

Apple has done a tremendous thing on building platforms where we consume content.  iPods, iPhones, iPads, Laptops and Desktops.  What's next from there; why not own the pipes that deliver that content?  Why not make a bid and buy Sprint; setup their own wireless company.  Why not also setup to deliver content to our homes?  Like Goggle is doing with Fiber?  

 

Lock me in as a customer!  Make it even harder for me to leave than Apple already does.  Spend that billions of dollars in cash for something like that.  Think long term people.  What if they had their own wireless network and then maybe they would only have to sell iPhones, iPads and such with a wireless setup for their own network.  More money directly to them rather than to some other wireless provider like AT&T.

 

What about some other kind of product that no one has even dreamed of and make it a reality?  

 

Google has come up with Google Glasses; what about something like that from Apple?  

 

Apple used to push the envelope with game changing things; all we see now is variations on existing products.  Taller iPhone, Smaller iPad; that's not innovation; that's tweaking an existing product.

 

An Apple watch?  I honestly don't think I would buy it.  (Nor an android watch; I like my old school watches.)

 

I don't know what great new product should be developed.  I don't think anyone here does; but it will be something that we all go WOW how did I live without that after we have it. 

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

Check Gordon90s post.  You obviously fail at reading comprehension...

 

The stock buyback plan and dividend increase now on the other hand kind of means that "hey we don't have any ideas how to develop great new products so we just hand you out our extra cash and a percentage of our earnings since we won't need it anymore". This more or less means that this exponential growth is over which on the other hand means that this needs to be priced in by the market, i.e. huge drop in the stock price we saw in the last months.

 

Making a marginally larger screen on an existing device is not a "great new product", unless you're a mole in a visionless world.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

So why can't Apple buy it's shares back in foreign markets?

That Russian guy just bought $100 million... did he have to pay US tax on that money to get AAPL shares?

 

I think he lives in the UK.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

 

Check my posting history; I have repeatedly stated I want to jump back into the iPhone realm.  But won't until they make a bigger screen.  My post was not a troll post but exactly my opinion.  If I jumped to the wrong conclusion then post your thoughts rather than just insulting me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

What a bunch of BS; a majority of the posters on this board are able to insult me as well as call me a fucking idiot but when I do the same the post is deleted.  Wow, just wow.

 

So do you also want the latest off the shelf Qualcomm chips with that bigger screen, such being your myopic, mole-like vision of "innovation"?

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #49 of 54

Apple granted 43 patents to close out April now with > 650 granted by the USTPO for the year and counting.

 

A Multi-person real-time conference patent was granted to connect Apple's ecosystem: Cited application usages include:

 

 

Quote:
With proliferation of general-purpose computers, many networks have been implemented to connect the computers. Many different types of data are exchanged between the computers through the networks. Examples of such data types include audio data, video data, text data, picture data, game data, and/or other media data.

 

Source: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8433755.html

 

PDF with schematics: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8433755.pdf

 

The rest of the patents are quite interesting.

 

I particularly like this one:

 

Wireless camera with automatic wake-up and transfer capability and transfer status display

 

Source: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8432461.html

 

PDF with schematics: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8432461.pdf

 

Lots more to really see over the past two years where Apple is headed.

 

Wall Street either has no imagination, technical expertise, or both, and or just want to manipulate and control the direction of stocks by all the fud they've been spreading.

post #50 of 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex iPhone Owner View Post

Companies buy back their shares when they do not have anything better to spend their cash on from an ROI perspective.  Which is sad; I would think they would invest extensively in new product development.

What makes you think they are not spending money on new product development/R&D?
Apple spent $4 billion last quarter on R&D.

 

Quote:

This screams they do not have anything nor any ideas on the next game changing product.

Does it?

I think spending $4B on R&D in one quarter screams they have plenty of new ideas and are working on the next multiple (not only 1) game changing
products!

post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I clearly stated your comments in this thread were fucking ignorant and fucking myopic. I never once stated they were fucking idiotic, much less called you an idiot. I, in fact, don't think you're an idiot, but do think your comments regarding Apple having no ideas because you aren't privy to them and because they make more money then they can spend is exceptionally idiotic. I also gave a very clear and detailed answer as to my reasons, which I wouldn't do if I thought you were too much of an idiot to be able to absorb even a portion of what I wrote. Would you like to prove me wrong?

 

I think the iPhone ex owner guy just found out that under the rules of this forum it is ok to refer to oneself as a "fucking idiot", it is not alright to refer to someone else as a "fucking idiot" in a reply to their post.

 

Maybe the frustration stems from having to use a large screened iPhone substitute.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Wall Street either has no imagination, technical expertise, or both, and or just want to manipulate and control the direction of stocks by all the fud they've been spreading.

 

Wall Street has plenty of imagination when it comes to screwing the little guy out of money.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


First of all, your assertion that there are no new ideas being hatched at Apple if you can't see them is pretty fucking ignorant. Even a 2 year old has a concept of object permanence.

Secondly, in the last year we've had the Retina iPad, Retina MBPs, new iMacs, iPad mini, and the most dramatic change the iPhone has ever seen. There are clearly many other things but those are just the main HW products that come to mind.

Third, how fucking myopic do you have to be to only count something like display size, while ignoring how the display is designed and made, or any other of the groundbreaking ideas that Apple has clearly incorporated to make their products better? Seriously! 1oyvey.gif

Finally, what kind of timeframe is "in the last year or so?" Did you claim that Apple had no ideas between 2001 and 2007 when they only had the iPod and Mac product categories? Did you claim that Apple had nothing in the works between 2007 and 2010 because they didn't release a brand new product category every fucking year? Of course not, because you'r goal is only to spread FUD by claiming you know the unknown.
And Apple has a great history of balancing tradeoffs so that usability is as good as possible for the state of the art. When you have a company that attracts buyers who are attracted to a spec sheet jargon over the user experience you simply don't have that focus. That said, it looks like Samsung finally wants to copy Apple in the ways that matter; well, at least in quality and feel.

Bottom line: your claim that Apple has zero ideas they're developing because they make more money than they spend despite a major increase in R&D for this year is completely baseless FUD.

 

 

 

Hum... "ground braking changes" to the iPhone 5? I don't know which keynote you saw back then when it came out... The iPhone OS hasn't changed much in five years.

 

Don't give me wrong, I still like Apple a lot, but sadly this is slowly coming to an end. Just for the record, I am using Apple products since 1994; had iPhones and iPods and am still owning a Macbook Pro Retina 15", a Macbook Air, an iPad 3, an iPod Touch and an Apple TV.

I am also closely watching AAPL on a daily basis for a few years now as far as new technologies and stock price go, so I'm not really sure you know a lot more about Apple than I do ;). (I also used to trade AAPL quite often, especially earnings, but the good time are over, I'm out since march 2012 and not touching that stock anytime soon!)

 

What I am saying is that sadly Steve Jobs is not there anymore... It takes a lot of time to destroy such a great company Apple once was but Tim Cook is sadly doing a terrific job at it.

 

Talking about blindness, I think paying twice as much for a phone that does only half of what new Androids do and not understanding that this could be a threat to Apple is what I call blindness.

I'm not saying that the iPhone is a bad product, but it's "cool factor" and huge technological edge is long gone, therefore in the long run its price will need to adjust to more affordable levels.

I was wondering because I'm a little confused about your quite rude post, did you get the memo that Apple's stock price almost lost 50% in about half a year? I think I am not the only one concerned about Steve Jobs legacy here ;-).


What should Apple do with the cash in my opinion?

- not pay dividends and buy back share as long as growth opportunities keep presenting

 

- put more effort in their products
  - have you ever used iPhoto or Aperture? I own a 3000$ computer and it still can't display my photos without two to three seconds lags? The "easy to use" features are driving one crazy as soon as one wants to do something a little more advanced. Same thing for Final Cut Pro X were Apple removed a lot of pro features to make its product more "consumer friendly". Result, all the professionals are slowly moving to Adobe (and trust me Adobe products also suck A LOT). Are these customers really not that worthy? I doubt it.

  - iTunes was kind of cool, but is losing it's edge; I moved to Spotify now and I'm not going back any time soon. Here too I know many people doing the same.

  - Mac OS hasn't changed that much in the last years... Many features could be improved here too. Just one thing, when you scroll in a folder you cannot click on the last item... Don't tell that "the best company in the world" can't fix such a lousy bug... 

  - Numbers for exemple has A LOT of really annoying bugs, no changes at all to that software in years!

  - iPhoto App and also Numbers + Keynote + Pages are awefull on the iPad!
  - iCloud is a cool feature, but come on, you could do a lot more about integration between all these devices!

  - about integration, on Android you can remotely download Apps onto your smartphone, Apps are updated on the fly. The on the fly app update on the mac promoted by Mac OS Lion does not work... And sorting the Apps of your iPad even on your computer is a real pain...
  - stop pissing off your costumers by putting the price of one your adapters at 40$ + and making software run slow on purpose (ever wondered about that two second lag to start your music on an old iPhone? No that's not because your iPhone is now "outdated" ;)).

And these are only a few problems listed... Do these cost billions to fix? Probably not... But these were things I would definitely fix as fast as possible before handing anyone any cash out... Maybe Apple takes its time to do things really good? Well maybe that's the case, but for my taste this is now taking too long and I am going to other companies in the mean time ;).

Look at the iPhone 5, there was not even one single new cool feature on it? How can you lose this technological edge you once had with so much cash at your disposal? That's the biggest mystery in history to me...


Other useful cash purposes? 

 - like already said, the possibilities are endless.

- Twitter which has many great developers (maybe they can help to avoid all these iMessage black outs?), an iCar could be a quite big hit so buy up some car manufacturer.

- Open an bank? Is anyone really satisfied with their bank and how there manage their money? 

 

- Develop more Apps (and especially better ones)

 

- diversify into Smart-every-day-use accessories (have you seen what Google or Samsung is doing in that area?)


I am not saying that Apple is not doing many of these things (hey there new campus looks gorgeous!), but I still think Apple is losing precious time here and handing out all that cash was their biggest mistake ever. Just look at how happy shareholders are now with a stock price that lost $300 billion in market cap, I don't think they care a lot about the few dollars they will get from dividends. Maybe the new hedgies (which now lend Apple money to pay their dividends!) and pension fund investors, but certainly not those who bought at the stock at 700$ a share.

 



Just my two cents ;).


And for those interested how AAPL's $150 Bn are invested, you can find the details here:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/04/Cash%20Investments.jpg

post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Looks like AAPL is only traded on NASDAQ

And there's Frankfurt for Appl€. APC.F
"Fibonacci: As easy as 1, 1, 2, 3..."
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