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'Dramatic changes' to Apple's iOS 7 said to include Calendar, Mail app overhauls

post #1 of 137
Thread Starter 
Under the control of lead designer Jony Ive, iOS 7 will reportedly see a significant overhaul that is expected to bring about new looks for the native Calendar and Mail applications for iPhone and iPad.

Ive is said to be implementing "dramatic changes" to Apple's mobile operating system, according to unnamed sources who spoke with Bloomberg. Specifically, Ive has reportedly eschewed the "skeuomorphic" designs embraced by his predecessor, Scott Forstall, such as the wooden bookshelf look found in the current Newsstand folder of iOS 6.

iOS


Skeuomorphism is a term used to describe design elements that are made to resemble real-life objects. Examples of these can be seen throughout iOS, including the felt poker table feel of Game Center, and the leather-like textures featured in the Find My Friends application.

Ive is said to be an opponent of skeuomorphic designs, and reports from last year indicated he planned to remove such elements from iOS. Ive took over Apple's Human Interface responsibilities after Forstall, the previous chief of iOS development, was fired from the company.

Apparent sweeping changes being made to iOS 7 could cause delays, Bloomberg reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed sources. That echoes earlier claims that indicated development of iOS 7 was running behind schedule, prompting Apple to reportedly have OS X engineers pulled from their work to pitch in on the company's mobile efforts.

The report also repeated a detail earlier revealed by John Gruber of Daring Fireball: Those testing iOS 7 allegedly have a special film over their iPhone screens to obstruct what others can see, heightening security surrounding the development of Apple's next mobile operating system.

Apple still reportedly plans to release iOS 7 as soon as September, meeting the company's own internal projections. But deadlines for submitting features for testing are said to be at later dates than past releases.

"Ive is also methodically reviewing new designs, seeking to avoid a repeat of last year's release of map tools that were widely panned, and he's encouraging collaboration between the software and hardware divisions, which operated in silos under co-founder Steve Jobs, people said," author Adam Satariano wrote.

WWDC


In the cards are said to be even "bigger shifts" for applications such as Mail. But those plans may not be ready for the launch of iOS 7, and could debut in future releases, Wednesday's report indicated.

One future possibility cited in the report is gesture control. It was said that Ive has met with makers of gesture technology, exploring ways that users could control devices by moving their hands and without touching a screen. Such features are not expected to be introduced with iOS 7.

Apple has promised to showcase the next major version of iOS 7 and OS X at this year's Worldwide Developers Conference, scheduled for June 10 through 14. Tickets for this year's conference sold out in a matter of seconds.
post #2 of 137
There's a difference between gratuitous skeuomorphism (damn but that's a hard word to type!), for instance the truly nasty faux leather Address Book in recent OS X versions, and the discreet depiction of real life elements to give clues to a program's function. In recent years Apple has gone really overboard with the nasty stuff, and I'm greatly looking forward to the prospect of a sleeker Jony Ive version.
post #3 of 137
So...

"Ive is also methodically reviewing new designs, seeking to avoid a repeat of last year's release of map tools that were widely panned, and he's encouraging collaboration between the software and hardware divisions, which operated in silos under co-founder Steve Jobs, people said," author Adam Satariano wrote.

I probably buy a good amount of what is said in this article... and then when you come across a quote like this it makes me think said author has no clue what he's talking about and sort of discredits the rest of his thoughts.

Jony is responsible for design and now creating a consistent feel between the software interface and the device. The problems with Maps had nothing to do with any of this... the problems were bad data. The problems with Maps are going to be the responsibility of Federighi and Eddy Cue.

His second point about silos was a result of the arrogant madness of Forstall... maybe it came out of a Jobs trait, but it was certainly Forstall that caused the core siloing problems.
post #4 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

So...

"Ive is also methodically reviewing new designs, seeking to avoid a repeat of last year's release of map tools that were widely panned, and he's encouraging collaboration between the software and hardware divisions, which operated in silos under co-founder Steve Jobs, people said," author Adam Satariano wrote.

I probably buy a good amount of what is said in this article... and then when you come across a quote like this it makes me think said author has no clue what he's talking about and sort of discredits the rest of his thoughts.

Jony is responsible for design and now creating a consistent feel between the software interface and the device. The problems with Maps had nothing to do with any of this... the problems were bad data. The problems with Maps are going to be the responsibility of Federighi and Eddy Cue.

His second point about silos was a result of the arrogant madness of Forstall... maybe it came out of a Jobs trait, but it was certainly Forstall that caused the core siloing problems.
I took that to mean Ive wants to make sure new software isn't released with lots of bugs. If big changes are coming they need to be thoroughly tested and retested. As far as silos, from what I've read, it was Jobs who was big on that. Probably why Ive wasn't really involved in software design while Jobs was around. In Jobs mind hardware and software design were two separate things.
post #5 of 137
I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems. Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications. Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.

Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required, iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.

Then, additional functionality is apps in iOS 7 need to be able to share data between apps. Siloing of apps has significant downsides.

Then iBook and ePub. Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted. The ePub and Apple's implementation needs to support math notation fully; Kindle is better at this point.
post #6 of 137
Hoping that the SNOOZE function will be added to the calendar app (same for putting it back into OS X).

Also, maybe the search function for old emails and contact can be improved.

Would really love to see Contacts show 2 columns, e.g. Name and Company when phone is in landscape position.
post #7 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems.

Are you certain this is the only thing that Apple is working on?
post #8 of 137
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post
Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications.

 

Except they do. Stop lying.


Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required…

 

Nowhere has that been said.


iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.

 

Enjoy your fantasy world. Rules #12, 15, & 16.

 

Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted.
 

So I guess you've never used iBooks at all, huh?


Originally Posted by GTR View Post
Are you aware if this is the only thing that Apple is working on?
 

Logic and reason don't matter, if you'll read the rest of his post.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 5/1/13 at 6:36am

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #9 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

There's a difference between gratuitous skeuomorphism (damn but that's a hard word to type!), for instance the truly nasty faux leather Address Book in recent OS X versions, and the discreet depiction of real life elements to give clues to a program's function. In recent years Apple has gone really overboard with the nasty stuff, and I'm greatly looking forward to the prospect of a sleeker Jony Ive version.

100% agree and I hope this is OS X too. Not to mention making Contacts user friendly and intuitive again as well as looking nice.
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post #10 of 137
I guess I'm the only person who likes the skeuomorphic design! I feel it adds character and worth to the OS. I don't mind it being toned down slightly but not removed all together just for the sake of it.

This seems to be the latest trend at the moment. I hope Apple have something special up their sleeve.

I'd rather more time was spent on adding more functionality to the OS and Apps.

Can't wait to see what they've been up to. Excited and nervous at the same time...
post #11 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems. Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications. Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.

Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required, iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.

Then, additional functionality is apps in iOS 7 need to be able to share data between apps. Siloing of apps has significant downsides.

Then iBook and ePub. Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted. The ePub and Apple's implementation needs to support math notation fully; Kindle is better at this point.

 

I'm hoping this redesign is as much about making the in-built apps genuine Apple services as it is about aesthetics. The skeuomorphic look works in discrete apps with limited functionality but to add more interoperability and greater functionality and make them first-tier Apple services I think they need a redesign. So hopefully that's what this initiative is really about. Contacts, Calendars, Reminders, Mail, etc, should be Apple's focus going forward. It's where they could do a lot of innovative work, but for that to happen they need to redesign them to be more flexible, I think.

post #12 of 137
How does dramatic changes including mail and calendar app overhauls = removing skeuomorphism and nothing else? 1hmm.gif
post #13 of 137

I doubt it's as far behind as the Bloomberg article makes it sound. It says there were delays as far back as Feb, but then surely they would have pushed WWDC back a few weeks - it has been held later in the past - but they didn't, which makes me think this is possibly an exaggeration.

 

Incidentally wasn't it also version 7 of the original Mac OS that got a graphical overhaul (color GUI)?

post #14 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

There's a difference between gratuitous skeuomorphism (damn but that's a hard word to type!), for instance the truly nasty faux leather Address Book in recent OS X versions, and the discreet depiction of real life elements to give clues to a program's function. In recent years Apple has gone really overboard with the nasty stuff, and I'm greatly looking forward to the prospect of a sleeker Jony Ive version.


Yeah, Notes and Address Book (and Calendar) are hard to look at. I can only imagine what people half my age think about it. Teenagers (I should as mine) what they think about it.


Address/contacts book on the Mac is just terrible, interface-wise. It's been terrible for years.

 

Podcasts looks better. Glad they got that reel to reel deck out of there.

post #15 of 137
There's skeuomorphism done badly but it can be done well.

For example the OSX windowing system uses subtle shading which is skeuomorphic but its not directly representational.

So a periodicals shelf that is made of something 'glassy' might keep with an overall design language of transparency while still being skeuomorphic would not be 'naff' like a poor copy of a woodgrain.

I think of things such as time machine as having a kind of design that moves a step beyond skeuomorphism to a kind of metaphorical design based on something that might exist in the future rather than the past.

By the way, I think the WWDC 2013 logo carries a strong hint of something coming which will be multichromatic. Lets not forget Jony's first hit... the translucent blue and orange iMacs!

I think we are going to get some treats from Apple even before some of the surprises due in the fall.
post #16 of 137

All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button, so it'll be interesting to see how they'd like to use their OS.

 

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #17 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

I'm hoping this redesign is as much about making the in-built apps genuine Apple services as it is about aesthetics. The skeuomorphic look works in discrete apps with limited functionality but to add more interoperability and greater functionality and make them first-tier Apple services I think they need a redesign. So hopefully that's what this initiative is really about. Contacts, Calendars, Reminders, Mail, etc, should be Apple's focus going forward. It's where they could do a lot of innovative work, but for that to happen they need to redesign them to be more flexible, I think.
Agreed. I've got to imagine it really irks Apple employees that Google apps are more popular on iOS than Apple stock apps. And this article sure sounds like these changes aren't just applying a fresh coat of paint to iOS. Though my guess is a lot of these changes won't be complete in time for iOS 7. Cook certainly doesn't want another maps fiasco where he has to apologize for buggy software.
post #18 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I took that to mean Ive wants to make sure new software isn't released with lots of bugs. If big changes are coming they need to be thoroughly tested and retested. As far as silos, from what I've read, it was Jobs who was big on that. Probably why Ive wasn't really involved in software design while Jobs was around. In Jobs mind hardware and software design were two separate things.

 

I sure hope Jony Ive hasn't been placed in charge of Hardware Design... Software Interface... and Quality Assurance checks on both data and functionality.

 

That would be one strange job description.

 

I also think "hardware and software design are two separate things" is the exact opposite of what Jobs believes.  He's said as much many times when quoting Alan Key with "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."  In practice, you might be right only in that Jobs liked silos to increase the level of secrecy about what was going on inside Apple...  That may or may not have been a bad decision.  But philosophically, Jobs saw software and hardware as one thing.  In practice not so much.

 

I think Forstall's view was very different.  It appears to have been because... MINE.  iOS IS MINE AND NONE OF YOU CAN PUT YOUR NAME ON IT.  Thank god he's gone. 


Edited by bobringer - 5/1/13 at 6:57am
post #19 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.

 

These assertions about Contacts and Mail are mostly inaccurate and misleading. You can search inside a group and Mail has rules.

 

While Contacts, Mail and Calendar would benefit from serious improvement in terms of functionality, they are useable. They clearly are designed with Apple's legendary mantra of "Keep it simple" in mind. However, they have lagged way behind and need a big refresh. There are serious functional weaknesses in Mail and Contacts that are irritating and time wasting. For example, in Mail, the "Copy & Paste" function performs inconsistently -- sometimes it "copies" the text, sometimes it "cuts" the text. And, you cannot copy text in the body of the email and paste it in the subject line. Weird! The two most irritating weaknesses (for me) in Contacts is the inability to do a universal search and the lack of auto-text entry for entering addresses.

 

Frankly, I can't wait to see what Ive comes up with. His track record for designing awesome hardware is amazing. Lets see what he can do with software.

post #20 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.

Spot on!
post #21 of 137

ANYONE could have told ANY journalist this kind of educated guess.

 

Will iOS stay the same forever? Obviously not. We know Ives is in charge of design now.

Will Mail and Maps be excluded from any changes? Obviously not.

Is iOS 7 when we'll see such changes begin? Obviously so.

 

I don't need a "source" to get ad views off that stuff.

 

And "agreeing with earlier reports" (meaning "rumors") is not confirmation or added credibility. ANYONE can repeat what was already said.

 

P.S. Ives likes rounded corners, and Apple hardware is full of circular-radius corners. That right there should keep iOS 7 from looking just like other UIs. (Plus, of course, Metro isn't that great for usability/discoverability, cool though it is. How something WORKS is part of design too.)

post #22 of 137
Looking forward to the Mail redesign. The current Mail app's search functionality is dreadful.
post #23 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I don't care about skeuomorphism. If that's is the only changes the Ive is pushing, then Apple has problems. Contacts, calendar, mail do not work and does not have the functionality of OS X applications. Calendars, only two alerts, no custom repeats. Contacts: No ability to search within groups, no ability to move contacts into groups, or multiple groups. Mail: No rules.

Especially because the need for a laptop is supposed to no longer be required, iOS 7 apps need all the functionality that would be expected in a laptop version. Nothing short of full functionality is acceptable.

Then, additional functionality is apps in iOS 7 need to be able to share data between apps. Siloing of apps has significant downsides.

Then iBook and ePub. Taking notes and organizing notes on reading materials is a needed function. This can be done either by enhancing iBook or by allowing other apps to supplement iBooks, but it is required for books which are to be digested, not just tasted. The ePub and Apple's implementation needs to support math notation fully; Kindle is better at this point.


Mail is pretty bad. I end up going to Chrome on iPhone to search my Google Mail.

 

I want to be able to set Chrome as default browser on iOS. Don't care for Safari.

 

Come to think of it, Google's apps are usually a lot better than Apple's. Many of my most-used apps are from Google. Google Now is pretty amazing - catching buses and getting food - it's great.

 

No time for analysis now, but I just don't like Mail or many of its apps. Podcasts has gotten better. Still use Google Map. Generally don't use Apple apps on iPhone. I put them in a folder and put them on the last screen of my phone. Sadly, can't delete them.

post #24 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.

His hardware designs have a history of making the competition look instantly out of date. I hope his GUI designs will too but it remains to be seen. But at the very least I am convinced he has taste so am not too worried.

post #25 of 137
I'd like to simply be able to attach a logo to my signature in the mail app. Too much to ask?
post #26 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button, so it'll be interesting to see how they'd like to use their OS.

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.

Agreed. I feel the key is not using skeuomorphism that looks bad (which of course is down to taste) there are examples where it can work, however Game Center isn't one IMHO. Or as you infer, there's a risk in taking it too far and making Apple's GUI look too simple and boring. I have faith Jony will do this right and make OS X and iOS look awesome. After all, given he can agonize over the angle of a chamfer in an iPhone so it 'catches the light just right' he isn't someone who would like Windows 8 anymore than you and me.
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post #27 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Looking forward to the Mail redesign. The current Mail app's search functionality is dreadful.

Yeah it doesn't really work.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #28 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

His hardware designs have a history of making the competition look instantly out of date. I hope his GUI designs will too but it remains to be seen. But at the very least I am convinced he has taste so am not too worried.

I shouldn't be worried because I definitely like how he thinks about design and I'm aware he's a genius, and I love his product design, but the anticipation is so high it's boiling over into worry for me. Haha
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #29 of 137
I like the page turning animation of iBooks, but the wooden bookshelf can go. Cover flow works for me.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #30 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post

There's skeuomorphism done badly but it can be done well.

For example the OSX windowing system uses subtle shading which is skeuomorphic but its not directly representational.

So a periodicals shelf that is made of something 'glassy' might keep with an overall design language of transparency while still being skeuomorphic would not be 'naff' like a poor copy of a woodgrain.

I think of things such as time machine as having a kind of design that moves a step beyond skeuomorphism to a kind of metaphorical design based on something that might exist in the future rather than the past.

By the way, I think the WWDC 2013 logo carries a strong hint of something coming which will be multichromatic. Lets not forget Jony's first hit... the translucent blue and orange iMacs!

I think we are going to get some treats from Apple even before some of the surprises due in the fall.

 

 

Not to pick on you particularly, but most folks are really not clear on what skeuomorphism actually is.  skeuomorphism *isn't* just shading or "3D" effects, it only applies to actual representations of real world objects.  It seems that when most people on this thread say skeuomorphism, they are meaning "anything that isn't totally flat" and that's just not right.  

 

So there are really two issues here.  "Skeuomorphism" and "Flatness."  It gets a bit fuzzier when you consider that many apps are not themselves skeuomorphic but contain skeuomorphic "elements."  For instance the Camera app is not skeuomorphic, but the shutter it uses is.  Pages and Numbers are similarly not skeuomorphic, but they have a few textures that could be swapped out for less realistic ones.  Other apps have skeuomorphic "splash screens" like Game Centre, but are otherwise not really skeuomorphic at all.  

 

I would argue that the real list of "skeuomorphic" (built-in) Apps goes like this:

 

Notes, iBooks, Contacts, Calendar, Newstand, iPhoto, Garage Band

 

I would say that "Notes" is by far the most egregious (witness the plethora of Notes replacements in the store), "Calendar" is next, followed by iBooks and Newstand which have those unfortunate wooden shelves and iPhoto, which doubles down on the situation by using those ugly plastic "photo albums" on glass shelves.  (insert sounds of retching here)

 

Funnily enough though, the most skeuomorphic app of all, Garage Band, is brilliant, attractive and would be completely ruined if the skeuomorphic elements were removed.  The paintbrushes in iPhoto are likely in the same situation in that they are also skeuomorphic, but also quite brilliant and useful to boot. 

 

So it seems to me that as long as they leave the "3D" stuff alone, or the stuff that is merely 3D-ish looking and focus only on the skeuomorphism it's actually a quick fix for most apps and that the fix will please most people and not remove any functionality.  (assuming they leave Garage Band alone and don't go overboard on iPhoto.)

 

I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  

I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  

post #31 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

I sure hope Jony Ive hasn't been placed in charge of Hardware Design... Software Interface... and Quality Assurance checks on both data and functionality.

That would be one strange job description.

I also think "hardware and software design are two separate things" is the exact opposite of what Jobs believes.  He's said as much many times when quoting Alan Key with "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."  In practice, you might be right only in that Jobs liked silos to increase the level of secrecy about what was going on inside Apple...  That may or may not have been a bad decision.  But philosophically, Jobs saw software and hardware as one thing.  In practice not so much.


I think Forstall's view was very different.  It appears to have been because... MINE.  iOS IS MINE AND NONE OF YOU CAN PUT YOUR NAME ON IT.  Thank god he's gone. 
I'm talking about the industrial design of the products not the hardware inside. It seems like Steve's MO was to keep software UI design and industrial design separate.
post #32 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

All these people against "all skeuomorphism" are against the concept of a button, so it'll be interesting to see how they'd like to use their OS.

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap or Google's rip off of Microsoft's crap.
Because getting rid of the fugly automatically means ripping off Microsoft and Google. 1oyvey.gif
post #33 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post

 

I sure hope Jony Ive hasn't been placed in charge of Hardware Design... Software Interface... and Quality Assurance checks on both data and functionality.

 

That would be one strange job description.

 

I also think "hardware and software design are two separate things" is the exact opposite of what Jobs believes.  He's said as much many times when quoting Alan Key with "People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware."  In practice, you might be right only in that Jobs liked silos to increase the level of secrecy about what was going on inside Apple...  That may or may not have been a bad decision.  But philosophically, Jobs saw software and hardware as one thing.  In practice not so much.

 

I think Forstall's view was very different.  It appears to have been because... MINE.  iOS IS MINE AND NONE OF YOU CAN PUT YOUR NAME ON IT.  Thank god he's gone. 

 

The logical end product of 'getting rid of the silos' is the very same divisional structure that Apple has been avoiding all these years, and that everyone says is the reason for their success. 

 

3 cheers for "silos". 1smile.gif

post #34 of 137
Quoting "Alan Key"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #35 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobringer View Post


Jony is responsible for design and now creating a consistent feel between the software interface and the device. The problems with Maps had nothing to do with any of this... the problems were bad data. The problems with Maps are going to be the responsibility of Federighi and Eddy Cue.

The quote does make total sense. Wasting time on cute crap like moving shadows means less time for working on other things like code for proper wifi use and testing the Maps data. Things that, despite it 'going to be' Federighi and Cue may not have been, information Ive would know as unlike us he is there.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #36 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  
I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  
I'm not worried because as far as we know the guys that worked under Forstall are still there and the rumors we've got indicate that Ive isn't dictating anything. He doesn't need to be a software engineer to understand how something should intuitively work.
post #37 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I took that to mean Ive wants to make sure new software isn't released with lots of bugs. If big changes are coming they need to be thoroughly tested and retested. As far as silos, from what I've read, it was Jobs who was big on that. Probably why Ive wasn't really involved in software design while Jobs was around. In Jobs mind hardware and software design were two separate things.

I certainly hope so. That wifi bug was major. They can remove all the paper tears etc they want if they don't repeat that. And bring back some of the features missing that were there in iOS 5 like being able to see previous purchases from the stores and download them right there with a quality pick on video. And even add a view to see all purchases 'in the cloud' the way you can in iTunes on the computer (perhaps with a button in the player app so you don't have to go out to settings etc) and out the picker in there as well

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #38 of 137
Small amounts of texture are fine. If the notes app were to forgo all skeumorphism it would look like TextEdit.

I bet iOS has lots of changes though.

1) I don't think that most of the team contributed to iOS 6 - possibly this is a 2 year project.
2) Apple is really going to showcase iCloud. Like in the desktop iTunes you can see all your purchases, well videos and Music apps can do that.
3) I bet there will be lots of undercover changes.

Removing Skeumorphism rather than adding it should be easy enough - in many cases it just means using standard API rather than sub classing and rolling your own. Going the other way is harder.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #39 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm not worried because as far as we know the guys that worked under Forstall are still there and the rumors we've got indicate that Ive isn't dictating anything. He doesn't need to be a software engineer to understand how something should intuitively work.

In some ways it might be better that he's not an engineer. Engineers can get enamoured of an idea and if it can be done and not consider if it should be. A non engineer is more like the core audience which for iOS in particular are not the freaks and geeks.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #40 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

The logical end product of 'getting rid of the silos' is the very same divisional structure that Apple has been avoiding all these years, and that everyone says is the reason for their success. 

3 cheers for "silos". 1smile.gif
This makes no sense. Cook's re-org got rid of divisional structure in favor of a functional structure - software, hardware, design and services. Since only one person has P&L responsibility (CFO) it doesn't really make sense to have different leaders based on products.
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