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'Dramatic changes' to Apple's iOS 7 said to include Calendar, Mail app overhauls - Page 3

post #81 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am looking forward to what Ive brings. IMO it can't be worse than what IOS is today bearing in mind his design pedigree. I look forward to less use of skeuomorphic elements and a 'flattening' of the design generally. People who fear there will be no more colors, no more buttons, no more references to 'real' objects should not worry. Having said that - usability and design is an iterative process and the appreciation of the same is in a permanent state of progression or at least, flux. I am sure there will be niggles and issues, but generally Apple reduces those to a minimum so I am pretty confident the result will be worthwhile.

I'm excited about it too. If nothing else, Ive will make sure there is a formally defined design language that will permeate throughout iOS. This was established early on at Apple, thanks to Steve Jobs, but more for industrial design. When one compares iMessage, Game Center, Maps, Mail, Music, etc., it is so clear that different teams of developers were involved, with insufficient communication between them and a lack of uniform design guidelines imposed. Hence, the priority is more about unification than askewing skeuomorphs.

post #82 of 137

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Edited by MacRulez - 7/24/13 at 10:46am
post #83 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

I huge gripe for me is that the toggle buttons in the Settings app are a real pain to use. I don't think it's just my monster hands. It is very difficult to slide the toggle over and back smoothly and reliably.

LOL, you can also tap them. Anywhere.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #84 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, they need someone unconcerned with the amount of effort it takes to do something so they don't compromise their vision of simplicity and usability. I know how that works. For example, an engineer might restrict their suggestions to solutions that are tried and true and not think outside their area of experience.

It hindsight it will appear obvious Ive was the right man for the job. And all of these people saying he's not a software designer will be saying they knew all along.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #85 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


The side swipe idea makes me cringe. And I love that notifications come down from the top. I think the simplest and best solution is to incorporate a small settings panel into the top of a redesigned notifications panel, but I'm sure Jony and co will come up with something even nicer. Obviously side swipes would interfere with the switching home screens gesture and with that in mind are even conceptually confusing.

 

It works well on Blackberry.  When swiping on the homescreen you don't usually touch the border of the screen. Swiping from the top was taken from Android and it's not a practical way of doing it, it's impossible to do easily with one hand on the iPhone 5 for people with average hands. At least they must redesign it, it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen on iOS on iPad, with Siri on iPad.

I don't think settings should be on the notification panel, those are two separate things.

At this point I'd really be happy if this prediction of mine happened to be true. :)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 

With all due respect, this is veering totally off track. The issue isn't about use of skeumorphs or not. It never truly was. It has been a total red herring that is really really unimportant in the redesign of iOS UI. The redesign is necessary more because there is a need for (a) unification (from one app to another, there is no single design language), (b) refresh (iOS is 6 years old), (c) enhancement of features and gestures.

 

No one here truly misunderstands skeuomorph because it is possible for this to mean something different to everyone. Stop using "understanding" and "definition" of terminology as a means to trump each other. Sounding superior to faceless individuals is not that important, is it?

 

Well, a definition is a definition. I'm not a specialist at all, but when people call shadows and gradients skeuomorphs, they clearly don't know what they are talking about. But you can't say that it isn't an issue when those skeuomorphs have been so widely criticized, and with good reason for most of them.

Edited by ClemyNX - 5/1/13 at 12:29pm
post #86 of 137
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
His hardware designs have a history of making the competition look instantly out of date. I hope his GUI designs will too but it remains to be seen. But at the very least I am convinced he has taste so am not too worried.

 

Absolutely. He's arguably the best designer in the world, but he designs hardware. Rather, has, exclusively, in the past. But hardware and software are designed differently. 

 

The job of hardware design is to get out of the way. Hardware is the means to the end that is software, and the simplest, cleanest way to get that means is the best way (and usually the hardest to come up with). But if hardware is the clean window, software is the scenery beyond it. Simplicity and complexity there take on different meanings than with hardware. 

 

I don't doubt that Jonathan Ive, of all people, could create the most beautiful software we've ever seen… IF that had been his job from the beginning. But I do have some doubt, because he is coming from a different world—a world where design means "the least of these", not "the doing of these".


Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Because getting rid of the fugly automatically means ripping off Microsoft and Google. 1oyvey.gif

 

No, it doesn't. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that some people think the pendulum has swung "too far" one way, and so they want it to swing "equally" far the other. Fighting that should be our charge.


Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post
Wow, how astonishingly incorrect. You don't truly understand what skeuomorphism is.

 

Think I do.


Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
Criticising Apple no a Tallest Skil like. No matter what point you may be making.

 

Only if it's a lie borne of either idiocy or ignorance.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #87 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Not to pick on you particularly, but most folks are really not clear on what skeuomorphism actually is.  skeuomorphism *isn't* just shading or "3D" effects, it only applies to actual representations of real world objects.  It seems that when most people on this thread say skeuomorphism, they are meaning "anything that isn't totally flat" and that's just not right.  

So there are really two issues here.  "Skeuomorphism" and "Flatness."  It gets a bit fuzzier when you consider that many apps are not themselves skeuomorphic but contain skeuomorphic "elements."  For instance the Camera app is not skeuomorphic, but the shutter it uses is.  Pages and Numbers are similarly not skeuomorphic, but they have a few textures that could be swapped out for less realistic ones.  Other apps have skeuomorphic "splash screens" like Game Centre, but are otherwise not really skeuomorphic at all.  

I would argue that the real list of "skeuomorphic" (built-in) Apps goes like this:

Notes, iBooks, Contacts, Calendar, Newstand, iPhoto, Garage Band

I would say that "Notes" is by far the most egregious (witness the plethora of Notes replacements in the store), "Calendar" is next, followed by iBooks and Newstand which have those unfortunate wooden shelves and iPhoto, which doubles down on the situation by using those ugly plastic "photo albums" on glass shelves.  (insert sounds of retching here)

Funnily enough though, the most skeuomorphic app of all, Garage Band, is brilliant, attractive and would be completely ruined if the skeuomorphic elements were removed.  The paintbrushes in iPhoto are likely in the same situation in that they are also skeuomorphic, but also quite brilliant and useful to boot. 

So it seems to me that as long as they leave the "3D" stuff alone, or the stuff that is merely 3D-ish looking and focus only on the skeuomorphism it's actually a quick fix for most apps and that the fix will please most people and not remove any functionality.  (assuming they leave Garage Band alone and don't go overboard on iPhoto.)

I am still worried though as Ive has absolutely no experience at what he's attempting here.  
I won't stop being worried until we see some screen shots, which they should probably leak as soon as possible so that it isn't too much of a shock when it comes out.  


Absolutely brilliant post! I am nominating you for "Zombie Kill of the..." err "Post of the Week."

Many people are confusing skeuomorphism with soft edges and translucent colors.

I would argue that Podcasts was previously the most unnecessary skeumorphic design.

I would add the following to the list of apps with elements of skeumorphic design: Find Friends, Game Center, Newsstand, Passbook, Clock, Compass, Messages, Weather. The point is that virtually every app has elements of skeuomorphic design, which in many instances improves usability for a majority of the user base.

iOS is very successful in many areas of design but some apps (Find Friends, Game Center, Notes) have an overabundance of unnecessary textures and colors.

There are many examples of alternative apps which have very intuitive user interfaces.

My preference is for Apple to improve core services especially allowing greater interaction between apps. Apple has everything necessary in iOS already to create a better user experience but must allow more interaction between apps to do so.


I believe that the authors or source for this story and similar stories does not understand skeuomorphism versus textures and colors. Witness the redesigned Podcasts app which was heavily skeuomorphic and is now a much more minimalistic app in regards to textures and colors but still has a very usable design.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 5/1/13 at 12:32pm
post #88 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMCarter3 View Post

These assertions about Contacts and Mail are mostly inaccurate and misleading. You can search inside a group and Mail has rules.

While Contacts, Mail and Calendar would benefit from serious improvement in terms of functionality, they are useable. They clearly are designed with Apple's legendary mantra of "Keep it simple" in mind. However, they have lagged way behind and need a big refresh. There are serious functional weaknesses in Mail and Contacts that are irritating and time wasting. For example, in Mail, the "Copy & Paste" function performs inconsistently -- sometimes it "copies" the text, sometimes it "cuts" the text. And, you cannot copy text in the body of the email and paste it in the subject line. Weird! The two most irritating weaknesses (for me) in Contacts is the inability to do a universal search and the lack of auto-text entry for entering addresses.

Frankly, I can't wait to see what Ive comes up with. His track record for designing awesome hardware is amazing. Lets see what he can do with software.






The "Copy & Paste" function is consistent. This sounds like user error. Mail does allow the user to copy text in the body of an email and paste it in the subject line. Contacts does have the ability to perform a universal search (name, addresses, employer, phone numbers) unless you mean something very different than what I believe a universal search to be.
post #89 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


It hindsight it will appear obvious Ive was the right man for the job. And all of these people saying he's not a software designer will be saying they knew all along.

What are you saying? Despite some statement of reservation, there is no widespread criticism of Ive taking over this responsibility. Or are you just setting the table so you can say "I told you so later"?

post #90 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

 

Well, a definition is a definition. I'm not a specialist at all, but when people call shadows and gradients skeuomorphs, they clearly don't know what they are talking about. But you can't say that it isn't an issue when those skeuomorphs have been so widely criticized, and with good reason for most of them.

 

 

 

Well I can say that and I will repeat - skeuomorphs are not the main issue at all. Not in the least. Engineering and design projects are not created on the basis of "I want to get rid of this feature." That, my friend, is the root of your misconception.
IOS has grown into a bit of a a dog's breakfast over the years. There is no design language visible amongst the "core apps". I am 99% certain that the conversation between Cook and Ive went something like this - Since we giving iOS a serious upgrade, it's also time to refresh the look. The way it is right now reflects that we work in disparate silos. Let's make this thing look like it was designed by one company. Let's give it a unified look and feel just as our hardware products have. Of course, any student of Ive would guess that if he were in charge of unifying the iOS UI, he'd choose the spartan look. But a different person could have chosen a highly skeuomorphic approach, which is just fine as long (a) there is uniformity, (b) it makes sense.
Furthermore, part and parcel of unifying the design is to apply the same design language and guidelines, where possible and sensible, to the hardware and software. This is why it makes sense to have Ive to be in charge.
To say that skeuomorphic design has been universally panned is itself a serious misunderstanding of the situation, a misunderstanding of skeuomorphic design and a misunderstanding of design altogether. This is not a binary choice. It is impossible to askew skeuomorphs. The play button in iTunes, the very example you raised, is in fact one. So is the virtual keyboard. So is the telephone keypad. Are they going to get rid of them all? Of course not.
The skeuomorphic school of design has not been criticized by those in the know. Nor is it fading in prominence. It is simply certain applications of it that is catching attention. Unfortunately, we have too many half-intelligent but nevertheless amateurish pundits too quick to draw the wrong conclusions.

Edited by stelligent - 5/1/13 at 1:26pm
post #91 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

I huge gripe for me is that the toggle buttons in the Settings app are a real pain to use. I don't think it's just my monster hands. It is very difficult to slide the toggle over and back smoothly and reliably.

 

Quoting Ireland:


LOL, you can also tap them. Anywhere.

 

 

Well, daggummit, ya learn somethin' new everyday...but, seriously, why even make it a toggle slider? Where's the "obviousness"?

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #92 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


It hindsight it will appear obvious Ive was the right man for the job. And all of these people saying he's not a software designer will be saying they knew all along.

 

I think you're right.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #93 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Absolutely. He's arguably the best designer in the world, but he designs hardware. Rather, has, exclusively, in the past. But hardware and software are designed differently. 

 

The job of hardware design is to get out of the way. Hardware is the means to the end that is software, and the simplest, cleanest way to get that means is the best way (and usually the hardest to come up with). But if hardware is the clean window, software is the scenery beyond it. Simplicity and complexity there take on different meanings than with hardware. 

 

I don't doubt that Jonathan Ive, of all people, could create the most beautiful software we've ever seen… IF that had been his job from the beginning. But I do have some doubt, because he is coming from a different world—a world where design means "the least of these", not "the doing of these".

 

No, it doesn't. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that some people think the pendulum has swung "too far" one way, and so they want it to swing "equally" far the other. Fighting that should be our charge.

 

Think I do.

 

Only if it's a lie borne of either idiocy or ignorance.

I have great respect for Ive. But someone who doesn't code cannot possibly create the most beautiful software. The UI is one layer of any software. Because you and others are consumers, you'd consider it the most important layer. But it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo far from being such.

 

Consider literature - the best prose is not necessarily that which is understood or appreciated by the masses. The masses are offended by this notion and would never agree. But it is what it is.

post #94 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

I have great respect for Ive. But someone who doesn't code cannot possibly create the most beautiful software. The UI is one layer of any software. Because you and others are consumers, you'd consider it the most important layer. But it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo far from being such.

 

Consider literature - the best prose is not necessarily that which is understood or appreciated by the masses. The masses are offended by this notion and would never agree. But it is what it is.

Perhaps poetry is a better example. It is generally considered more beautiful than prose but it is indeed unappreciated and misunderstood by the masses.

post #95 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


Apple_iMac_USB_mouse.jpg

Good counter-example. In fact, has Apple ever produced a truly good mouse? Ive did redeem himself with the glass touchpad, assuming he was involved in its design.

 

I'd say the current crop of iPod Nanos simply fail to meet the standard of iPhones. I wonder if Ive has even paid attention to them.

post #96 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I just don't want Ive to make iOS or OS X into something that looks like Microsoft's crap 

 

You mean you don't want a GUI that gives you the impression that Apple fired all of their graphics artists? I'm shocked! SHOCKED I TELL YOU lol.gif

 

Yeah, there's a difference between minimalism and being to simple. 


Edited by AppleFanPro - 5/1/13 at 1:47pm
post #97 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


Apple_iMac_USB_mouse.jpg

Well, yeah, there is that. Luckily we now have ...

... a truly good mouse - to answer stelligent

post #98 of 137
Don't try to slide them. Tap on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

I huge gripe for me is that the toggle buttons in the Settings app are a real pain to use. I don't think it's just my monster hands. It is very difficult to slide the toggle over and back smoothly and reliably. I'm not sure if they need larger buttons or simply need to work on the code. Netflix's larger red volume buttons in their iOS apps work quite well in terms of being sufficiently-large touch targets and feeling very responsive to toggling.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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post #99 of 137
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
But someone who doesn't code cannot possibly create the most beautiful software.

 

Nonsense! Of course he can.


Can he metalwork? Has he wrought steel and iron with his bare (heat-gloved) hands, working a forge with the little accordion blower thing? And yet he makes works of art in hardware.

 

Does a painter crush his own berries, flowers, and minerals to make his paints? And yet he makes works of art on canvas.


The UI is one layer of any software. Because you and others are consumers, you'd consider it the most important layer.

 

On the contrary, software can be both beautiful in its simplicity and vast in its power. Ive's job is to funnel the power into a beautiful facade. 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #100 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


Apple_iMac_USB_mouse.jpg

 

This horrible mouse was actually Steve Jobs' idea and he was it's main cheerleader.  

In his defence, Jobs held a mouse differently than about 90% of the public if you look at the old videos.  


Edited by Gazoobee - 5/1/13 at 2:00pm
post #101 of 137

I don't have a problem with the way iOS looks now. It works great. However, I am looking forward to seeing what iOS 7 will look like. 

 

Time for someone to make a music video. iPhone Jonny style. lol.gif

post #102 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

I have great respect for Ive. But someone who doesn't code cannot possibly create the most beautiful software. The UI is one layer of any software. Because you and others are consumers, you'd consider it the most important layer. But it is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo far from being such.

Consider literature - the best prose is not necessarily that which is understood or appreciated by the masses. The masses are offended by this notion and would never agree. But it is what it is.

Utter rubbish. As a software engineer let me tell you that UI design is a totally different speciality. Apples look and feel has never been decided by engineers ( except perhaps for dev tools) but by designers. All that has happened here is a change in the guard of UI designers - if the rumours are true - from pro skeumorphic to pro minimalist.

UI has always been designer led. Apple is not Linux.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #103 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Good counter-example. In fact, has Apple ever produced a truly good mouse? Ive did redeem himself with the glass touchpad, assuming he was involved in its design.

 

I'd say the current crop of iPod Nanos simply fail to meet the standard of iPhones. I wonder if Ive has even paid attention to them.

 

I'd also like to chime in and argue that the current iPod shuffle is sub-par. A previous generation shuffle (of the same approximate dimensions) was a far better, more usable product.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #104 of 137
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well, we are all anonymous though so how would you know?  I have a degree in Industrial Design, but you may or may not believe me and no one seems to listen to me when I post about design issues anyway.  1smile.gif
Fair enough. 1smile.gif I don't have an engineering or design degree but I think I can distinguish nice looking from ugly (even if its well designed ugly). I guess my point was plenty of people who don't have engineering or design backgrounds have opinions on what iOS should look like and how it should function.
post #105 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

 In fact, has Apple ever produced a truly good mouse? 

 

 

 

 

I've owned many Apple mice (though none since maybe 2011) and nearly every single one I dumped in favor of someone else's that I liked better.

post #106 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nonsense! Of course he can.


Can he metalwork? Has he wrought steel and iron with his bare (heat-gloved) hands, working a forge with the little accordion blower thing? And yet he makes works of art in hardware.

 

Does a painter crush his own berries, flowers, and minerals to make his paints? And yet he makes works of art on canvas.

 

On the contrary, software can be both beautiful in its simplicity and vast in its power. Ive's job is to funnel the power into a beautiful facade. 


Two wrong analogies don't make a right.

 

A better one would be this - Does the framer of a painting get most of the credit for its artistic brilliance? What about the person who mounts it on the ball? Or the lighting guy? No. The essence of a painting is the painting itself.

 

Similarly, it is true that hair, makeup and clothes can make anyone look better, but none of it is what constitutes the true beauty of a woman, which is instead defined by geometry, complexion, proportions ...

 

Likewise, the essence of a software product is the underlying architecture and algorithms - . The UI may be part of the architecture but it does not exist for its own sake. Furthermore, the UI is easily replaceable.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Utter rubbish. As a software engineer let me tell you that UI design is a totally different speciality. Apples look and feel has never been decided by engineers ( except perhaps for dev tools) but by designers. All that has happened here is a change in the guard of UI designers - if the rumours are true - from pro skeumorphic to pro minimalist.

UI has always been designer led. Apple is not Linux.

 

Yes, UI development is a specialty, and an important one at that. So are makeup, framing, lighting, fashion design, etc. Bad makeup can hide a woman's real beauty just as bad UI can make an app appear dysfunctional. But anyone who believes these components are more important than the core structure is not a software developer who gets it, and is further someone who appreciates true beauty.

 

Finally, it is absolutely false that UI has always been designer led. Absolutely false. Go tell Marissa Mayer that she is a designer and not a computer scientist. Furthermore, the designers involved in UI design are not the same class of designer as Jony Ive and the industrial designers he leads. You are misunderstanding and mixing up software design, industrial design, graphics design and UX design. Software developer my eye.

post #107 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

I'd also like to chime in and argue that the current iPod shuffle is sub-par. A previous generation shuffle (of the same approximate dimensions) was a far better, more usable product.

The best Shuffle remains the first one. I seem to recall Jobs referring to it as a stick of gum? I still have mine and recently delighted myself by confirming that it still worked fine. The follow-up designs, IMO, have been too small or cannot be plugged into a USB port.

post #108 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Well, we are all anonymous though so how would you know?  I have a degree in Industrial Design, but you may or may not believe me and no one seems to listen to me when I post about design issues anyway.  1smile.gif
 

Fair enough. 1smile.gif I don't have an engineering or design degree but I think I can distinguish nice looking from ugly (even if its well designed ugly). I guess my point was plenty of people who don't have engineering or design backgrounds have opinions on what iOS should look like and how it should function.

 

But your assessment is subjective - i.e. a matter of taste. A trained designer, however, knows more about standards and can discern rationales for choice of proportions, materials, etc.

post #109 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

But your assessment is subjective - i.e. a matter of taste. A trained designer, however, knows more about standards and can discern rationales for choice of proportions, materials, etc.
True. But the idea that Ive's background isn't software engineering therefore he shouldn't be overseeing software design doesn't make sense to me. Steve Jobs wasn't a software engineer. Also as far as we know Scott Forstall's lieutenants are still in their roles at Apple. So if anything Ive is playing the Steve Jobs role - setting an overall vision/direction and overseeing the development at a higher level. I don't think he needs a software background to do that.
post #110 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Furthermore, the designers involved in UI design are not the same class of designer as Jony Ive and the industrial designers he leads.
Just curious what you mean here...
post #111 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoXoM View Post

I guess I'm the only person who likes the skeuomorphic design! I feel it adds character and worth to the OS. I don't mind it being toned down slightly but not removed all together just for the sake of it.

This seems to be the latest trend at the moment. I hope Apple have something special up their sleeve.

I'd rather more time was spent on adding more functionality to the OS and Apps.

Can't wait to see what they've been up to. Excited and nervous at the same time...
I know, I like it to and it is almost every app like in: Calender, Maps(standard view and 3d city[birds eye], and page flip), Passbook(cards and shredder) Notes, Reminders(notes), Clock, Newstand(book shelf), Game center(billiard explained in post) Settings(gears turning), Compass, Voice memos(old microphone) and more(Siri).
post #112 of 137
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
Two wrong analogies don't make a right.

 

Good thing I used right ones, eh?


The UI may be part of the architecture but it does not exist for its own sake. Furthermore, the UI is easily replaceable.

 

That explains why we're still using a Menu Bar, cursor, folders, and windows after 30 years. And a Dock after 13.

 

"Easily", huh? Microsoft is sure having a time of it. lol.gif


Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Just curious what you mean here...

 

"Jonathan Ive does no work of any appreciable worth."

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #113 of 137

Blah blah blah. ;)

 

My big question is, what will Jon Ive come up with?  We know he's a big Dieter Rams fan, so perhaps we should look at old Braun designs to get some ideas.

 

 

Hmm.  Silvers, whites, greys?

 

In the meantime, I've gathered a few fan concepts of a "flat" style:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice some are dark, some light.   My bet would be towards a light background scheme.  

 

For one thing, Android has pretty much claimed darker colors for their AMOLED displays, which both excel at blacks and benefit power wise from them.

 

iOS, on the other hand, likes to be the chipper, brighter UI, and I think Ive would go that way to be opposite from Android as well.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by KDarling - 5/1/13 at 8:36pm
post #114 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Blah blah blah. 1wink.gif

My big question is, what will Jon Ive come up with?  We know he's a big Dieter Rams fan, so perhaps we should look at old Braun designs to get some ideas.  In the meantime, I've gathered a few fan concepts of a "flat" style:

[images]

Notice I alternated between dark and light versions.   My bet would be towards a light background scheme.  

For one thing, Android has pretty much claimed darker colors for their AMOLED displays, which both excel at blacks and benefit power wise from them.

iOS, on the other hand, likes to be the chipper, brighter UI, and I think Ive would go that way to be opposite from Android as well.

Thoughts?

I agree with all your points. Good post.

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #115 of 137
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

[images]

 

I'm… 

 

…………………………………………………………………… Almost okay with this.

 

There's not enough contrast in some places, not enough depth in others, and it's not nearly as warm as I'd like.

 

The overall tone is pretty, though. I particularly like dropping ALL software references to the original Aqua, and have been confused for years at why they haven't done this by now. There's no reason for any UIImage to include faux glossiness when the physical hardware itself is, under all circumstances, glossy. I love the gradients that come from a matte finish where Apple has done them already, and I'd like to see that unified everywhere.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #116 of 137
KDarling do you ever get sick of mentioning Ive and Dieter Rams in the same sentence. It's getting a little tiresome.
post #117 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Blah blah blah. ;)

 

My big question is, what will Jon Ive come up with?  We know he's a big Dieter Rams fan, so perhaps we should look at old Braun designs to get some ideas.

 

 

Hmm.  Silvers, whites, greys?

 

In the meantime, I've gathered a few fan concepts of a "flat" style:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Notice some are dark, some light.   My bet would be towards a light background scheme.  

 

For one thing, Android has pretty much claimed darker colors for their AMOLED displays, which both excel at blacks and benefit power wise from them.

 

iOS, on the other hand, likes to be the chipper, brighter UI, and I think Ive would go that way to be opposite from Android as well.

 

Thoughts?

Great post. My thoughts: the Apple app icons are too abstracted (what is the app represented by the icon above the blue messages icon?) and flat (a bit of 3D effect and shading on the keyboard would be nice). I like the lack of gloss and texture on the app icons as well as the warm color tones, but the Apple apps should retain their current icon colors, at least in the short term. The Clock app interface is uninviting. The Safari (is that a Klingon weapon?) and Photos (I wouldn't want to touch that) icons are somewhat menacing. 

 

Apple should be very careful not to "pull a Metro" and confuse their current users, which is why I doubt they'll go this hard in iOS 7. I can see something like this being a successful design scheme, but only after approximating toward it over 2-3 iOS versions.

 

Rams had a unique penchant for melding smooth minimalist surfaces with warm contours in a way that made his designs very inviting and appealing to the touch. I think Ive will go more minimal, but the aesthetic will be more warm. I can see a matte off-white background consistent use of round-recs, and fewer primary colors.

For your sake, I hope you're right.
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For your sake, I hope you're right.
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post #118 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I wouldn't say android has 'claimed' the darker colors. Android, IIRC has both a holo dark and holo light theme, and google has been using the lighter theme a lot more lately, especially in their newer apps:

Google Keep:
Google Now:
The new play store:

 

Good point!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

KDarling do you ever get sick of mentioning Ive and Dieter Rams in the same sentence. It's getting a little tiresome.

 

Why would it get tiresome?   Ive himself has many times stated what an admirer of Rams he is, and how great Rams' influence on him has been... just as with many other famous designers.  Rams is the guiding light behind them all.

 

That's why I say that the biggest clue as to what iOS 7 would look like, will be to try to think about what Rams would've done.

 

In Ive's forward to the book "Dieter Rams: As Little Design as Possible", we see this very well, and how it even influenced the design of the iPhone's Home button:

 

"In so many ways Dieter Rams's work is beyond improvement. Although new technologies have since offered new opportunities, his designs are not undermined by the limits of the technologies of their time.

 

The concave button top, necessary to stop your finger from slipping as it made the long travel necessary for earlier mechanical switches, does not point to obsolete mechanisms. Instead, it reminds, us how immediately and intuitively form alone can describe what an object does and suggest how we should use it."

 

We get further clues as to what Ive is thinking about visual clutter when he says:

 

"It brings order and explanation to what is a far more complex problem than the user could possibly conceive. Simplicity, of course, is not the absence of complexity. Just removing clutter would result in uncomplicated but meaningless products.  Rams's genius lies in understanding and giving form to the very essence of an object's being - almost describing its reason for existence..."

 

And finally, Ive talks about how Rams did not work in a vacuum, but with others in his company.  

 

"For a designer to produce a couple of objects this significant and influential in their lifetime could define a movement. To produce more than 500 borders on the absurd.

 

This speaks to perhaps a less obvious but critically important attribute of Rams - his ability to collaborate. The fact we know Rams primarily by his beautifully engineered and mass-manufactured products rather than his credo of good design, speaks volumes about his extraordinary collaborations within Braun.

 

In defining individual products he also defined Braun. His was not an academic experiment in modernism. He lived every day with the commercial realities and consequences of what he and his team designed. Equally, he lived with the organizational and structural consequences of the way he and his team worked."

 

This internal collaboration is something that Ive is pushing for now that Forstall is gone.

 

So I say again, look to Rams to see what Ive will do.

post #119 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

Rams had a unique penchant for melding smooth minimalist surfaces with warm contours in a way that made his designs very inviting and appealing to the touch. I think Ive will go more minimal, but the aesthetic will be more warm. I can see a matte off-white background consistent use of round-recs, and fewer primary colors.

 

Yes, that sounds good.  Also, thanks for bringing up surfaces and contours and shapes.

 

I think that the consistent use of basic geometric shapes is a hallmark of Rams, and we'll see the same with Ive's design language.

post #120 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Think I do.

 

Not if you think a button is an example. 1rolleyes.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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