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Despite Apple's internal delays, iOS 7 'will ship on time' - report

post #1 of 52
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Though Apple is allegedly reassigning personnel to expedite development of iOS 7, the next-generation mobile operating system for iPhone and iPad will still meet the company's internal deadlines, according to a new report.

The details come from anonymous sources who spoke with John Paczkowski of All Things D. They likened the current atmosphere at Apple to when the company moved some of its Mac software engineers, at the time working on OS X 10.5 Leopard, to the iPhone team ahead of the first-generation handset's launch.

iOS


While the situation is similar, the company's current efforts to finish iOS 7 are "not as much of a fire drill," one source reportedly said. They added: "It will ship on time."

From what Paczkowski was told, iOS 7 promises to be a "pretty big update" for Apple's mobile operating system. Apple will show off iOS 7 at this year's Worldwide Developers Conference, the company has publicly confirmed.

"Evidently the spartan, elegant aesthetic that (head designer Jony) Ive has developed around Apple's hardware is now being brought to bear on its software, as well," Wednesday's report indicated.

Singled out was the felt casino-style table design featured in Apple's Game Center software. One source indicated that the "Circus Circus" look would disappear.

The report reaffirms much of what was reported earlier Wednesday by Bloomberg, which revealed that Ive is overseeing "dramatic changes" to the iOS platform. That report pointed to the native Calendar and Mail applications as items that might see a significant shakeup.

A target of Ive's is said to be the "skeuomorphic" design embraced by his predecessor, Scott Forstall, who previously oversaw iOS development. Skeumorphism refers to design elements that are made to resemble real-life objects, such as the leather texture employed in Apple's Find My Friends application.

While the earlier report stoked concern that the apparent sweeping changes to iOS 7 could cause delays, All Things D's sources suggest that won't be the case. Apple typically makes a beta version of its next-generation operating system available to developers at WWDC, and ships the final software to users later in the year alongside the launch of its next-generation iPhone.

John Gruber of Daring Fireball was the first to report a month ago that Apple was struggling to implement its planned changes in time for the launch of iOS 7. He revealed that Apple had pulled OS X 10.9 engineers from their work to lend a hand in getting the mobile OS ready in time for its debut.
post #2 of 52

It's easy to ship on time when you're making up the ship date.

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Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #3 of 52
Skeuomorpheus: If real is what you can click, zoom, scroll and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
post #4 of 52
"Ship on time"? It ships when it ships. Apple doesn't do "ship dates"... They aren't Microsoft, FFS.

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post #5 of 52
There are big improvements in LLVM/Clang/LLDB/Compiler-RT/Libc and more coming in the June Release. What's even more exciting is that with C 11 complete and C 14 add-ons hitting the trunk presently there are even bigger improvements coming to the design of LLVM/Clang after June.

OS X and iOS [including WebKit2/WebCore] are going to get a big boost with these June and beyond improvements. WebKit is finally free from the asinine requirements of supporting Google. Scalability, Performance and Memory efficiencies all took hits when Google was included.
post #6 of 52
Can't wait for this release. Apparently Ive is meticulously reviewing each update and feature of ios7 himself before approval is made to avoid any ios map like problems. Excellent news
post #7 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

Skeuomorpheus: If real is what you can click, zoom, scroll and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

I keep thinking perhaps Apple could allow alternative GUI interfaces (with in reason) as options. If your into leather bound applications (must be a joke there somewhere!) hey, why not? If you want super cool Jony designs then so be it. How hard would it be to have at least two alternatives in the Finder Prefs?.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #8 of 52
Originally Posted by Darran View Post
Apparently Ive is meticulously reviewing each update and feature of ios7 himself before approval is made…

 

According to someone's butt.


…problems.

 

What problems?

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #9 of 52
"Skeumorphism refers to design elements that are made to resemble real-life objects"
that's just half of the definition

the other important half is

"without actually carrying any function"
post #10 of 52

Since I'm not a member of the "other site", I want to rant here. 

 

There are a ton of comments suggesting Apple should hire more engineers. These guys don't understand that throwing more engineers at a problem usually makes the problem worse. Ramp up time, unfamiliar with history, dividing tasks, etc. 

 

Keep in mind, the new campus is being built to add more engineers. They are somewhat limited in space at the current campus.

 

Bah

 

 

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post #11 of 52
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post
"without actually carrying any function"

 

That's a lot more difficult to quantify than some are claiming, which makes its inclusion, at best, redundant (at worst, of course, word for word).

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #12 of 52
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Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Since I'm not a member of the "other site", I want to rant here. 

 

There are a ton of comments suggesting Apple should hire more engineers. These guys don't understand that throwing more engineers at a problem usually makes the problem worse. Ramp up time, unfamiliar with history, dividing tasks, etc. 

 

Keep in mind, the new campus is being built to add more engineers. They are somewhat limited in space at the current campus.

 

Bah

Yeah, it's a classic management blunder as chronicled by the "Mythical Man-Month".  Sadly, most managers have still never heard of or read that book as it's still plenty relevant now as it was when it was written.

post #13 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Since I'm not a member of the "other site", I want to rant here. 

 

There are a ton of comments suggesting Apple should hire more engineers. These guys don't understand that throwing more engineers at a problem usually makes the problem worse. Ramp up time, unfamiliar with history, dividing tasks, etc. 

 

Keep in mind, the new campus is being built to add more engineers. They are somewhat limited in space at the current campus.

 

Bah

helped microsoft

 

they have so many people working on windows, it takes 3 weeks from code submission to see it in a new build of the OS

post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I will take your word for it. Since you seem to be the guy to ask, how does iOS and Android currently compare when it comes to fully utilizing all the cores? With quad and even octa cores out now it seems that the OS that can really get every drop of juice of processing power out of all the cores will have a significant advantage. How do they stack up in that respect?

 

Kind of hard to do a rough comparison of how iOS is with Android when from top to bottom, both hardware and software, iOS and Apple hardware have been designed to be as efficient and scalable as possible with a focus on zero lag to the User and as minimal idle power drain as possible. Android is a middle-of-the-road approach to OS Design which then allows each manufacturer to work on their efficiencies and deficiencies as they test them. There are multiple vendors that want to offer differing configurations for their hardware which results in trade-offs for Android.

 

Then the Kernel designs are different between the Linux and XNU kernels and how they manage messaging between kernel/userspace communication.

 

Lots of work has gone into ARM in this LLVM release. Then there is the difference inherent between Java, C/C++ and ObjC.
 

As Frameworks are concerned I'm biased as I've never liked Java and being a NeXT/Apple alum I'm firmly in the C/ObjC Cocoa Camp. Never have been a fan of C++ but at least its not the massive overhead and installed toolkits with all it's asinine configurations that is Java.

post #15 of 52
Or perhaps the issue, and the reason for the alleged borrow of some of the Mac OS folks, wasn't delays at all. But rather a preplanned use of some fresh eyes to help error check the software before even the first public beta to avoid another iOS 6 with its major issues like the wifi bug that cost hundreds of users time and even money using cell data while in wifi zones and their devices telling them they were on wifi. Same bug, that with the lack of truthful quality evaluations of the Maps data, that likely led to Scott Forstall running out of good will to offset his attitude issues. It would be doubly important if they really are excising non utility skeuo features, as rumored to make sure they didn't break something by mistake

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post #16 of 52
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Originally Posted by Darran View Post

Can't wait for this release. Apparently Ive is meticulously reviewing each update and feature of ios7 himself before approval is made to avoid any ios map like problems. Excellent news

Apparently you can read ;-)
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post #17 of 52
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

It's easy to ship on time when you're making up the ship date.

There is that also

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post #18 of 52

Looking forward to tomorrow's reports of "actually it will be delayed", and then Friday's follow-up of "actually, nevermind, it's on time again". 

 

Can we stop republishing and linking to this bullshit? Isn't it painfully obvious this stuff is all click-whorism at it's worst? Noone knows the state of iOS except Apple's inner circle, and I doubt they're the kind of people to talk to the press about it or anyone, for that matter. 

 

Also, I sense we're starting the vicious circle of "OMG iOS7 is going to be so amazing, such a massive change that they're delaying it.." etc, etc- just so that everyone can start shrieking and whining ab out how "underwhelming", "overhyped", etc it is when it is finally unveiled, even though Apple hasn't said a fucking word about it or hyped it in the least. It's insanely difficult to drastically change something that half a billion people use and enjoy for the better, while keeping it intuitive for everyone. Let's get expectations down to earth, so we don't predictably whine when iOS7 doesn't include a time machine or have enough "INNOVASHION". 

post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

"Skeumorphism refers to design elements that are made to resemble real-life objects"
that's just half of the definition

the other important half is

"without actually carrying any function"

Not true. Good skeuomorphs have a function. The function of making the UI more intuitive. They can include a lot of things including using a plus sign for creating a new entry, or a notepad and pen like icon.

Bad skeuomorphs have zero function. Like Forstall's shifting shadows on the knobs. It was done merely to look nifty

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post #20 of 52
-deleted-

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #21 of 52

When I used to work at a few software companies, we had the "final stretch". Everyone one of those developers and testers are working 7 days a week, 12 hours a day to get this out on time and they will be generously rewarded for it.

post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


Not true. Good skeuomorphs have a function. The function of making the UI more intuitive. They can include a lot of things including using a plus sign for creating a new entry, or a notepad and pen like icon.

Bad skeuomorphs have zero function. Like Forstall's shifting shadows on the knobs. It was done merely to look nifty

 

A skeuomorph is a kind of ornamentation, so the correct use of the term is for things that have no functional role. An icon is never a skeuomorph and neither is a symbol. Shading and shadows are not skeuomorphic either. Stuff like leather stitching, torn bits of paper, and textures like faux wood effects are usually what people are referring to as skeuomorphism. But, to be honest, the application of the term to digital media is problematic, since digital displays are generally always depicting something. So it's kind of like saying drawings or paintings are skeuomorphic, which is absurd.

post #23 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

Since I'm not a member of the "other site", I want to rant here. 

 

There are a ton of comments suggesting Apple should hire more engineers. These guys don't understand that throwing more engineers at a problem usually makes the problem worse. Ramp up time, unfamiliar with history, dividing tasks, etc. 

 

Keep in mind, the new campus is being built to add more engineers. They are somewhat limited in space at the current campus.

 

Bah

 

How is pulling in members from other groups with little or no experience in iOS any better in regards to training, familiarity and those other things you mention?  If Apple had hired more iOS engineers a few years ago when they started having these staffing issues and started training them at that time, then staffing may not be such a problem today.  If Apple had done that, we would probably see an article from DED like "Apple wisely expands iOS team as part of long term strategy while Windows Phone struggles for relevance".  But instead, the headline today is "Apple cannibalizing Mac OS team to ship iOS".  The commenters on the other side seem more interested in promoting this image of a small mom and pop shop above all else, even at the expense of getting actual work done.  Anybody who has ever worked in an overworked, understaffed department should understand.


Edited by Haggar - 5/1/13 at 2:18pm
post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

So it's kind of like saying drawings or paintings are skeuomorphic, which is absurd.

Drawings and paintings aren't representations to aid recognition of functionality, they are just representations in their own right and not supplemental. Skeuomorphism is things like when you open the compass app and it looks like a compass, the iPhoto app with shelves and albums, the Garageband app with drums and pianos, the camera app with the shutter animation and shutter sound etc. Just because a few people want to limit the meaning of the word to tasteless decoration doesn't redefine the actual word.

The bad skeuomorphism is where the recognition is either unnecessary or limiting. The Game Center UI doesn't really give the right impression of what it is. It's really just a score sheet so it would be better having an abstract representation. The leather in the calendar represents a particular style of calendar, which is limiting and again it can be more abstract.

If Jony Ive takes away my drum kit, he'll have some explainin' to do.
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

How is pulling in members from other groups with little or no experience in iOS any better in regards to training, familiarity and those other things you mention?

Well, you see here's the thing. 90% of what is in iOS is also the same exact code as it is in OS X. After all, iOS was built from the ground up from OS X. That is why in this case it doesn't matter that they were on the OS X, they are already "there" as far as iOS is concerned.

Also, more than likely, these are the same people that have been used before during these iOS pushes. That last part is a guess, but if I were Ive, that is exactly what I would do.

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post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Drawings and paintings aren't representations to aid recognition of functionality, they are just representations in their own right and not supplemental. Skeuomorphism is things like when you open the compass app and it looks like a compass, the iPhoto app with shelves and albums, the Garageband app with drums and pianos, the camera app with the shutter animation and shutter sound etc. Just because a few people want to limit the meaning of the word to tasteless decoration doesn't redefine the actual word.

The bad skeuomorphism is where the recognition is either unnecessary or limiting. The Game Center UI doesn't really give the right impression of what it is. It's really just a score sheet so it would be better having an abstract representation. The leather in the calendar represents a particular style of calendar, which is limiting and again it can be more abstract.

If Jony Ive takes away my drum kit, he'll have some explainin' to do.

The example I like to use when people are adamantly against any skeumorphs is the page turning effect in iBooks. They could have just used the left and right side taps to move the page, but even that is a lesser form of skeumophism as there are no "pages" on a digital device. They could just make it one giant scroll (which is an option for at least one eBook reader).

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post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Drawings and paintings aren't representations to aid recognition of functionality, they are just representations in their own right and not supplemental. Skeuomorphism is things like when you open the compass app and it looks like a compass, the iPhoto app with shelves and albums, the Garageband app with drums and pianos, the camera app with the shutter animation and shutter sound etc. Just because a few people want to limit the meaning of the word to tasteless decoration doesn't redefine the actual word.

The bad skeuomorphism is where the recognition is either unnecessary or limiting. The Game Center UI doesn't really give the right impression of what it is. It's really just a score sheet so it would be better having an abstract representation. The leather in the calendar represents a particular style of calendar, which is limiting and again it can be more abstract.

If Jony Ive takes away my drum kit, he'll have some explainin' to do.

 

Here's a dictionary definition for "skeuomorphic": "an ornament or design on an object copied from a form of the object when made from another material or by other techniques, as an imitation metal rivet mark found on handles of prehistoric pottery." More generally it's taken to mean any element that copies familiar elements of some other material, like faux wood panelling. Like I said, it doesn't really apply to digital media at all, because all digital media is representation, like a drawing or a painting, and so there isn't a clear way to delineate skeuomorphic elements from non-skeuomorphic elements. You can't have anything on screen except for patches of colour and symbols, without imitating another medium to some degree. That's the nature of depiction. But it's part of the original definition of skeuomorphic that it is ornamentation and it entered into the iOS debate as a term to describe certain ornamental aspects of iOS.

post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio View Post

I definitely support the idea of multiple versions of the GUI: one for older people, one for tech savvy, one for regular people, one for kids...

Android Central forum would better suit you, me thinks.
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post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

Also, I sense we're starting the vicious circle of "OMG iOS7 is going to be so amazing, such a massive change that they're delaying it.." etc, etc- just so that everyone can start shrieking and whining ab out how "underwhelming", "overhyped", etc it is when it is finally unveiled.

I don't think we have to worry too much.

That unified Address/Search bar in Safari is going to blow people's minds!

1wink.gif
post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio View Post

I definitely support the idea of multiple versions of the GUI: one for older people, one for tech savvy, one for regular people, one for kids...

 

Probably the stupidest idea I've ever heard. It''s helpful to think things through when making such statements. 

 

- Ok, so you've listed at least FOUR different UI paradigms

- Whats the threshold for "old", "tech-savy" , and "kids"?

- how will smoeone know which UI will work best for them? They will need to try each one. And research all the different features and pros/cons. So instead of learning ONE OS, to properly pick the most "ideal" one, you need to learn FOUR. 

- Apple will need to advertise, maintain, support, and update multiple UIs. 

- etc. 

 

It would be a complete clusterfuck, and exactly the type of thing that Apple is vehemently against, complicating things to an infinite degree. A well designed OS can be both simple, intuitive, and powerful. What you're suggesting reeks of development incompetence, which is exactly why Samsung has an "easy mode" on their new phones. 

post #31 of 52

Multiple Themes UI was killed during the Mac OS 9 days. It's long since buried. That dog will never hunt.

post #32 of 52

So an unknown product with an unknown release date is expected to be shipped on time?

post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Just because a few people want to limit the meaning of the word to tasteless decoration doesn't redefine the actual word.
 

Agree. There are people here and elsewhere who believe that, by criticizing, they are automatically spouting expertise.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The bad skeuomorphism is where the recognition is either unnecessary or limiting. The Game Center UI doesn't really give the right impression of what it is. It's really just a score sheet so it would be better having an abstract representation. The leather in the calendar represents a particular style of calendar, which is limiting and again it can be more abstract.
 

What you describe here could be a discussion of taste. My teenage daughter, for example, is overdoing it with animal print in her wardrobe. But that's her style. What is truly indefensible is when different styles of designs (including skeuomorphs) are adopted to different degrees in different places. This is what iOS has become. If we didn't know better, we'd assume iOS, Maps, Game Center and Mail were developed by four different companies. I expect, above all else, unification. 

post #34 of 52

Im really looking forward to whats in store with ios7, I really think this is going to destroy the competition. Ivy and the rest of the engineering and design team have been working on this for years to perfect every microcosm of the entire experience and I really think we will have a winner here. This update will not only be better than android 4.2 but will destroy it from the inside out. 

post #35 of 52
Originally Posted by dillio View Post
I definitely support the idea of multiple versions of the GUI: one for older people, one for tech savvy, one for regular people, one for kids...

 

"I definitely support the idea of being forced to relearn something I will use on a semi-daily basis for the rest of my natural life MULTIPLE TIMES during said lifespan, during some of the worst possible times to learn such things, and on the basis of arbitrary skill."

 

That's you. And that's hilarious.


Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

…which is exactly why Samsung has an "easy mode" on their new phones. 

 

That I didn't know. And that's hilarious.


Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post
So an unknown product with an unknown release date is expected to be shipped on time?

 

Exactly*.

 

*Which I know because I heard it from a guy.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #36 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillio View Post

I definitely support the idea of multiple versions of the GUI: one for older people, one for tech savvy, one for regular people, one for kids...

 

A little bit of that already exists,

 

For example, Apple ships iPads in "easy" mode, with the fancier four and five finger multi-touch control gestures turned off.  Experienced users can find and turn them on. 

 

As for multiple versions, I think parents would love a kid's / grandparent's switch.... where, at the least, the  icon rearrangement / deletion mode is disabled.  

 

Personally, I wish Apple had a mode for new users where built-in apps like Mail had text labels for the icons.  I've mailed an iPad to an octogenarian with no computer experience, and had to explain over the phone which tiny icon is the "compose mail" button.  Such things are not that intuitive for new computer users, no matter what the OS.


Edited by KDarling - 5/1/13 at 7:14pm
post #37 of 52
In other words, don't upgrade iOS or any mobile device until iOS 8 1smile.gif
post #38 of 52
It comes between June and October, always has and will.
post #39 of 52

The article states that to ship iOS 7 on time they took engineers from OS X 10.9. Does that mean OS X 10.9 will be delayed then?

 

I understand from an Apple profit perspective it was the right thing to do but, from a personal perspective, I use my Mac every day but my iPad only once or twice a week.

post #40 of 52

Personally, I don't dislike the skeumorphic designs but don't love them.  If Ive were smart (and I'm pretty positive he is a brilliant guy) he would critically look at the UI not from an aesthetic stand-point, but from a functional one first and foremost.  Does the UI work as well as it could?  Then, look at the aesthetics.  Do these aesthetics convey to the user a smart, simple, intuitive, and friendly functionality?  What must Apple do with their Apps to convince the customer to use their apps as the primary apps over some 3rd party?

 

Apple's Native/Standard Apps have always been the backbone of the Apple Ecosystem.  They are the personality of OS X / iOS.  Don't kid yourself into thinking Apple is/was always some perfect, vanilla interface.  It's always been quirky, fun, familiar and friendly.  It's the GUI for the "rest of us" not the GUI for the hipster computer geeks.

 

Yes, some designs are a bit overboard, but they serve their purpose.  To familiarize the user with the App using design queues of real-world interfaces.  Again, friendly and familiar GUI.  Jobs always stressed this.  "The intersection of Technology and the Liberal Arts".

 

Now, perhaps also some of the Skeumorphic elements are a bit dated now.  Perhaps using the wood-grain in the Compass App is a bit much, considering when have you seen a compass that's embedded in wood?  The Notes, Calendar are fine by me.  Who doesn't have a desk calendar or at least has seen one before?  We all still use notepads.  Perhaps not yellow but you get the idea.  Sure Game Center is a bit strange with the Casino style look, but What would you do to make it feel like a gaming center?  8-bit graphics?  I didn't think so.

 

Yes, there will be a time when the majority of users will be living in a world where notepads, desk calendars, leather stitched notebooks are a thing of the past, and the GUI will eventually evolve into that.  I think the iTunes App is a great example of how it started off as looking like something familiar, and then evolved into something more suited to it's functionality.  And this app is one of the most criticized apps Apple develops.  It can be argued that iTunes has improved lately, but for the majority of the time it's been bloated and over-complicated.

 

What everyone is suggesting Apple do (basically the Apple version of Microsoft Metro UI) is dumbing down what makes Apple's GUI so successful.  by successful i mean easy to understand and operate over the competition (like Google and Microsoft etc...)  You need to look beyond your own needs and see the bigger picture.


Edited by antkm1 - 5/2/13 at 5:34am
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