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JCPenney ad apologizes for changes made by former CEO Ron Johnson - Page 2

post #41 of 80

My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
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My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
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post #42 of 80
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post
It doesn't matter if it was because the no coupon thing before the remodel or whatever other reason it's bleeding. It's clearly is a lack of execution.

Wouldn't that prove it DOES matter? 1confused.gif

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Ron is not CEO material. He had 2 years and cut 43k jobs and no bottom in sight. There is a reason so few Executives are CEO/Chairman material. So few have true vision and fewer yet stick to it.

People truly don't get that Apple Executives were managed heavily by Steve. He never hesitated to tell each and everyone of these egos that they are effin' up and need to show more or hit the door.

People bent to Steve's vision and will, not the other way around. He helped create a lot of people who then left thinking it was all them. There is a reason so few people from Apple actually go on to be huge successes in their own start ups. They never had that 1% vision to lead.

Great talents each in their own rights, but never seem to grasp they never had `it' in the first place.

The same goes for Microsoft, Oracle, IBM, Sun, SGI, you name executives doing their own start ups.

Technically brilliant, artistically brilliant to managerially talented but never about vision.

Steve bounced ideas constantly off of brilliant people in a hope to get a symbiotic relationship built. He had very few of those and those he did have he had for very specific roles at Apple.

Tim Cook leaving Apple to start his own business would ultimately be a disaster as well. Bertrand or Avi's own start ups will amount to nothing beyond getting some technology bought out.

Ron should have stayed at Apple. He peaked at Apple.

You are absolutely correct. My justification for feeling Ron should be brought back to Apple is precisely because he was inspired by Steve and hopefully back within the fold could continue with Steve's vision. He was apparently inspired to disagree with Steve and be proven right but as you point out that's exactly what Steve did, he brought the best out of people and they rose above the level they would otherwise have reached. I agree these folks often end up believing it was they who were great because of themselves alone, that's human nature after all. Few go on to greatness if they try to lead. This isn't only applicable to Steve and Apple, I have seen this same scenario played out many times in the computer industry of the last thirty something years. I assume it happens in all industries, I just wasn't there to see it.. 1smile.gif
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Steve didn't have time to micromanage all the execs. I don't know where you got that idea. He was brilliant but wasn't God. Why would Jobs hire empty suits? Ron came up with the Genius Bar and store layout. To minimize his contributions is foolish.

If a CEO does not have the time to manage his top management team, he has no business being a CEO. SJ or not.

I have no doubt that Jobs was on top of every major detail that made Johnson successful at Apple.
post #45 of 80

 

As far as department stores, I have some new respect for Kmart.

post #46 of 80

Johnson tried to put lipstick on a pig and it naturally failed.  

post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"Sorry we tried to treat our customers as if they had brains. We are now going back to fooling you with raised prices and discount coupons. We will be starting bingo soon too."

p.s. Tim, bring Ron home.

LOL! So, you say when you run a store and you don't sell your products well, it's somehow... customers fault, not yours??? It's customers job to buy your products, not yours to sell your products? OMG! Are you for real??? 1biggrin.gif

post #48 of 80
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post
Johnson only seemed smart because when he was in the position at apple a monkey could have run that ship. 

 

Just go.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

We left JCP for 4 reasons:

1. Dirty run down stores (nobody wants to shop in that).

2. The stupidity of the new 3-color pricing scheme - assigned the wrong colors.

3. Stopped carrying the products we shopped at JCP for.

4. Promotion of the homosexual agenda.

 

...............

 

Stay out of politics.  The advertising and promotion of homosexuality in the catalogs under Ron was the last straw for us.  We cut you off completely at that point.  If you are or want to be gay, fine I don't care, but leave that crap out of the public view.  Be in the business of being in business.  I expect a company to be attentive to quality, reasonable pricing, and customer service.  Keep your politics to yourself.

 

HAHAHAHA ....really??? Your going to boycott a company because of number 4?  Good luck with that. Don't start shopping at Target, Macy's, GAP, Kenneth Cole, Levis or JCrew instead; they have all had ads supporting marriage equality too (Maybe you should just make your own clothes). I guess your going to throw away your computer too since Apple, Google, and Microsoft all support gay marriage and have signed a brief to the US Supreme Court in support of it. Better stay off Amazon and ebay too.  I suppose your going to start growing your own food to since some of the biggest food companies like Kraft and General Mills also have come out in support of the "Homosexual Agenda" as you call it. 

post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If a CEO does not have the time to manage his top management team, he has no business being a CEO. SJ or not.

I have no doubt that Jobs was on top of every major detail that made Johnson successful at Apple.

I didn't say manage. I said micromanage. Of course Jobs managed the execs but he trusted them to manage their teams largely on their own.
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

LOL! So, you say when you run a store and you don't sell your products well, it's somehow... customers fault, not yours??? It's customers job to buy your products, not yours to sell your products? OMG! Are you for real??? 1biggrin.gif

I suspect you haven't followed the entire story over the last year thus fail understand my post.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #52 of 80
@ mtdave who said:

" If you are or want to be gay, fine I don't care, but leave that crap out of the public view. Be in the business of being in business"

Substitute the word "gay" with "black" above, read it again, and see how bigoted this comment really is.

People are as God or Nature made them.

The crap part is bigotry.
post #53 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Neimann Marcus begs to differ.

 

 

Completely different.

 

Neimann Marcus is a specialty store with significantly fewer locations. They only have 42 locations nationwide. They are also a private company.

 

Not even in the same league or market. They are selling specialty luxury brands not Levi, Dockers, IZOD, etc.

 

So what you are saying is that JCP needed to close 96% of their 1,100 stores. Then convince their board that they are going from $17 billion in revenue to $4 billion in revenue?

 

Also they would need to get rid of their entire inventory so they can sell things like a $600 Stefano Ricci dress shirt to the suburban Middle America crowd. I really see that working well.

post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

The thing I've never understood about JCP is how they're trying to position themselves. They're not high end, and they're not the bargain bin. What are they? They're not communicating it to me.

Lets look at competitors. Walmart (which sells clothes and many similar items) is clearly the bargain bin. Kohls is basically the same. Target is tells me they are different and a little better, but still affordable. Macy's is "high end".

Where is JCP? Are they trying to be Target? If so, they should have taken a memo from Target's quirky ads and communicated the value they bring.

I have the same problem with Kmart. What are they?

Both are struggling and have zero mindshare (although Kmart's latest ads are clever, I still don't know what they are or why I should go there). Neither register when I'm thinking of where to shop.

Positioning is marketing 101 but is often poorly executed.

 

If Macy's is "high end" then I need to work a lot harder to get myself in the next higher economic class in this country. Macy's is a polished turd.

post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by malta View Post

The Apple premium model will never work in a department store.

 

 

You mean like at Nordstroms?

 

Quote:

 He should have known that from the start (too much time in a RDF). The premium model works for Apple because Apple is a brand and they have high loyalty and strict control over distribution and pricing.

 

Why would people pay $50 more for a product at JCP's store-within-a-store, when they can in 4 minutes walk to the other department store and buy the EXACT product for less?

 

JCP is not a product like Apple. JCP sells other peoples' products.

 

Many stores have their own branded items.  He was successful at Target in developing this premium bargin branding.

post #56 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by malta View Post

 

 

Completely different.

 

Neimann Marcus is a specialty store with significantly fewer locations. They only have 42 locations nationwide. They are also a private company.

 

Not even in the same league or market. They are selling specialty luxury brands not Levi, Dockers, IZOD, etc.

 

So what you are saying is that JCP needed to close 96% of their 1,100 stores. Then convince their board that they are going from $17 billion in revenue to $4 billion in revenue?

 

Also they would need to get rid of their entire inventory so they can sell things like a $600 Stefano Ricci dress shirt to the suburban Middle America crowd. I really see that working well.

 

Nope, you said: "The Apple premium model will never work in a department store."

 

Both Neimann Marcus and Nordstrom are premium department stores.  They both work.

 

And yes, if he could convince his board that he could make $401M with $8.57B revenue (Nordstrom's numbers) vs losing $152M with $17.2B revenue they'd be happy even if it meant dumping all but a hundred or so stores. 

 

And you can buy Levi's and Dockers at Nordstrom.  Izod no but Polo yes which is another upper mid-grade brand you can also find at Macy's.

 

I like shopping at Nordstrom.  I just don't shop that often.

post #57 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

Stay out of politics.  The advertising and promotion of homosexuality in the catalogs under Ron was the last straw for us.

People still use catalogs?

Quote:
We cut you off completely at that point.  If you are or want to be gay, fine I don't care, but leave that crap out of the public view.  Be in the business of being in business.  I expect a company to be attentive to quality, reasonable pricing, and customer service.  Keep your politics to yourself.

"If you want to be straight, you keep that crap out of the public view." "It's OK to be black, but I don't want those people in the catalog." "They should stay on the sidelines, I don't want them pushing the black agenda."

See how that works?
Edited by JeffDM - 5/2/13 at 9:08am
post #58 of 80
I always liked JCP, but lately the quality of the clothes has come down. Also, as a petite women I find that the department is much smaller, not much of a selection anymore. Too many people walking around with scanners asking if they can help you, I like to look around on my own. I recently went to look for pj's all I found were three different short sleeve pj's displayed. What's up with that?
post #59 of 80
Originally Posted by latviagirl View Post
I recently went to look for pj's all I found were three different short sleeve pj's displayed. What's up with that?

 

Short sleeve PJs? May as well a t-shirt… Or nothin' at all. What's up with that, indeed.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #60 of 80
What this shows, these people who get lucky once will not be lucky twice.
post #61 of 80
My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!
post #62 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by C KENNEDY View Post

My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!

 

We will get right on that.  Thank you for your input.

post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by C KENNEDY View Post

My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!

It's my understanding that this should be addressed in the next update.
My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
My car keeps crashing whenever I do 150mph. It's a design flaw. People tell me to slow down and drive normally but I should be able to use it as I wish.
Reply
post #64 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post




LOL!

What's so sad is that JCP couldn't find anyone more qualified to take the job than their last, failing CEO. I guess when you are the Titanic, not many people want to work there.
At that level, they don't hire from the primary workforce. They, stupidly, only hire their own kind: wealthy older white males that were already at executive levels elsewhere. It's a small collection of people and it's stagnant.
post #65 of 80
Originally Posted by C KENNEDY View Post
My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!

 

No.


Sent from my Black Mock Turtleneck.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

No.  People who stop shopping at a store because they start selling $30 items for $30 instead of $50 with a 40% off! coupon are dumb and stupid.

Agreed. The social engineering has been done. You can't undo it in only one place.
Quote:
Frankly, I'd say that JCP screwed up this "transition back" with this ad.  Just start mailing people their beloved coupons again.  There is no need to apologize for not having had them for a year or so.  This just makes them look weak and desperate.
From reading the wording printed in the article, they DIDN'T actually apologize. Corporations in the USA rarely do. Apple has, interestingly, but I'm unaware of others.
post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by C KENNEDY View Post

My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!



 

 

Honestly not sure if this is a joke post or not, if it is is, it's brilliant, and the email at the end (aol, to boot) is what seals the brilliance. 

If it wasn't a joke post, I...have no words. 

post #68 of 80
JCPenney was an oversized Woolworth before Johnson's arrival. Then it couldn't make up its mind trying to be a cross between Target and Macy's. it will be interesting to see what it becomes now.
post #69 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by C KENNEDY View Post

My husband was very disapointed that you no longer carry the Stafford brand men's pocket tee shirts. They were very comfortable and fit very well at a resonable price. He is not satisfied with the St. John's Bay tee. It seems to run small and the sleeves seem to be too short. He is in the process of trying to find another pocket tee shirt that is comparable to the Stafford in fit and quality, but is not having much luck. Please bring them back!

(redacted email address)

It's a bad idea to post email addresses publicly. Please avoid doing that wherever you might post.
post #70 of 80

I honestly haven't followed Ron Johnson's experience at JCP very closely, so I'll refrain from making confident proclamations as to why this didn't work out.  There have been a lot of intelligent theories posited in this thread (e.g., he should have waited to get rid of the coupons till *after* the remodel was done, JCP customers are idiots, JCP employees are lazy, etc.).  I personally haven't stepped foot in a JCP in what seems like forever.  And it's not because I've gone out of my way to  avoid doing so, there simply isn't one near me and I wasn't aware of anything special that they offered that would make me drive out of my way to shop there.

 

That hints at one possible reason for their failure: Once a company starts to do poorly and shuts down stores (or simply ceases to expand), and doesn't do a lot of advertising, the average person starts to think of them as being "dead."

 

I was originally thinking of posting another theory, which had to do with the fact that the economy sucks, the government is making things worse, and now might not be the best time to try to turn a coupon (budget-conscious consumer) focused store into a "premium" store.  The economy we have will favor stores like Walmart and Target, and stores like Best Buy are likely to go out of business.  People are looking to save money, so as to stretch their paycheck.  More and more will simply buy online, but for those that shop locally and brick-and-mortar stores, budget stores will survive.

 

*BUT* there are name-brand, high-priced, stores that seem to still be doing OK.  My daughter likes American Eagle, and they seem grossly overpriced to me.  But, here's the thing: teens/early-twenties care about brand-names, will pressure their parents to overspend on what they want, and/or will charge up and go into debt themselves for fashion.  But JCPenney wasn't "cool", and JCP (under Ron Johnson) still wasn't "cool".  Maybe it would have become "cool" if Ron had more time, maybe not.

 

In thinking about all of that, I guess if I was running things at JCPenney I might have had Ron's bold ideas implemented by way of opening new stores (or taking certain existing JCPenney stores and completely overhauling them) and have them serve as pilot cases.  They would completely rename them (not simply tweak the JCPenney name as JCP), completely redesign them, hire all-new people (younger/hipper people), etc.  Eventually, if it was successful, more and more stores would be "converted" until the old JCPenney was no more and the new company went by the new name/brand.

post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott R View Post

*BUT* there are name-brand, high-priced, stores that seem to still be doing OK.  My daughter likes American Eagle, and they seem grossly overpriced to me.  But, here's the thing: teens/early-twenties care about brand-names, will pressure their parents to overspend on what they want, and/or will charge up and go into debt themselves for fashion.  But JCPenney wasn't "cool", and JCP (under Ron Johnson) still wasn't "cool".  Maybe it would have become "cool" if Ron had more time, maybe not.

In thinking about all of that, I guess if I was running things at JCPenney I might have had Ron's bold ideas implemented by way of opening new stores (or taking certain existing JCPenney stores and completely overhauling them) and have them serve as pilot cases.  They would completely rename them (not simply tweak the JCPenney name as JCP), completely redesign them, hire all-new people (younger/hipper people), etc.  Eventually, if it was successful, more and more stores would be "converted" until the old JCPenney was no more and the new company went by the new name/brand.

I think you make a good case. Trying to beat discounters at their game while being mall anchor stores seems like a bad idea. The cost of square footage is so skewed high at a mall setting, and stores can really only survive if they can command a higher price.
post #72 of 80
Honestly...

A computer or a tablet may last 4-7 years, while an article of clothing from vietnam or china might last one season. Quality goods will last far far longer (particularly coats and suits.)

If he was trying to turn around the store, he'd have needed at least 5 years. One year would not be enough. As for eliminations of coupons and sales... well you just can't do that since you need stock to turn over much faster than an hardware company. A hardware company you can stock 90 days of equipment and you're guaranteed to sell all of it. Where as clothing you are only guaranteed to sell about 20% of it at full retail, while all the asian and large sizes stick around until it's time to clearance-sale them. Ever try to buy something that's on sale at jcp.com? There will be nothing but sizes 0's, 2's and then suddenly it jumps up to 14 and higher in all the ugly colors.

Like apple makes just ONE item in 3 sizes and 2 colors. JCP makes one item in 16 colors and 20 sizes.
post #73 of 80
Ron confused bargain shoppers vs Apple's lifestyle gadget shoppers. Two very very different consumer groups...I think the changes simply push out the bargain hunter and hence declined sales. I think he miscalculated a lot and I'm surprised it took this long for them to drive him out.
post #74 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So people who use coupons and shops for things on sale are dumb and stupid. 1oyvey.gif

 

Yes, if they actually aren't on sale and you can get them cheaper elsewhere anyway. 

 

It's a game that some folks like to play but in the end buying from the right source is more cost and time efficient.

post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbytee View Post

JCPenney was an oversized Woolworth before Johnson's arrival. Then it couldn't make up its mind trying to be a cross between Target and Macy's. it will be interesting to see what it becomes now.

 

Bankrupt. 

post #76 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While short ad appears to lambast Johnson's decisions post facto, according to Bloomberg, the commercial was made under his watch. The publication cites JCPenney spokesman Joey Thomas as saying development of the commercial began a few months ago as a result of poor customer feedback.

 

This is untrue.  The commercial was made by a new ad agency hired after he left using footage shot for the previous ad campaign "Yours Truly".

 

http://kensegall.com/2013/05/feeling-jcpenneys-sorrow/#comment-882715167 

post #77 of 80
Shortly after he took over , the most annoying ad in the history of television aired. It was a JCP commercial where people screamed at a high pitch. If he ok'ed it, he deserved to be fired.
post #78 of 80

I hesitate to agree, because they did lose an enormous amount of money.  But I do believe, given enough time, he could have really turned things around for them.  It's not like they weren't already in a downward spiral when he took over.  Either way, the commercial was a slap in the face to Ron, and somewhat in poor taste. 

post #79 of 80
Originally Posted by ulfoaf View Post
Shortly after he took over , the most annoying ad in the history of television aired. It was a JCP commercial where people screamed at a high pitch. If he ok'ed it, he deserved to be fired.


"Shortly after he took over, Apple released the Performa 5620C. It wasn't the revolutionary product we expected. If Steve okayed it, he deserved to be fired."

 

That's you, and it's silly.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #80 of 80

I actually shopped at JCP more after the changes than I did before. I hated the Buy 1 get 2nd half off rip off sales tactic. Forcing me to buy more than I want just to get any kind of discount.

After JCP dropped it I noticed that Kohl's started doing it. I now shop less at Kohl's.

 

Too many brain dead shoppers that think  a sale, any sale is a bargain.

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