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Intel outlines upcoming Core i7 'Haswell' integrated graphics, touts up to triple performance

post #1 of 136
Thread Starter 
A document released on Wednesday sheds some light on Intel's forthcoming Core i7 processors, which will boast new integrated graphics silicon that promises to double or even triple performance compared to existing models.

Haswell
Source: Intel


Alongside a new iteration of the "Intel HD Graphics" series, dubbed HD 5000, Intel is introducing the "Iris" and "Iris Pro" tiers to its graphics lineup with Haswell, effectively creating a three-tier system for its upcoming Core i7 offerings. Apple is expected to use products from the newest family of processors when the company refreshes its Mac lineup later this year.

As is the case with every new generation of CPUs, there will be an across the board performance boost with the fourth-generation Core i7 chips. However, while previous generational changes brought only slight gains to Intel's respective Ultrabook, laptop and desktop class lineups, Iris and Iris Pro will enjoy huge gains, in some cases showing three fold improvements.

As noted by Engadget, the options start out with HD 5000 for 15W TDP (Thermal Design Power) U-series chips, and move to the new Iris graphics with 28W U-series silicon. Iris Pro, which uses embedded DRAM instead of shared system memory, promises to double the speed of current 47-55W H-series laptop processors. Most intriguing is a tripling in 3D rendering speeds for 65-84W R-series desktop CPUs.

Haswell
Source: Intel


According to Intel's documentation, Iris Pro will also be available on certain M-series laptop and K-series desktop chips.

The 11- and 13-inch MacBook Air currently uses two U-series chips ? a 17W dual-core Ivy Bridge Core i5 processor in its standard configuration and an optional Core i7 version. Apple uses M-series Core i5 and i7 chips for its MacBook Pro and MacBook Pro with Retina Display products.

Haswell
Source: Intel


Intel also detailed the three tiers' feature sets, which support DirectX 11.1, OpenGL 4 and OpenCL 1.2. Display modes include "enhanced" 4K and 2K output and a 3-screen collage, which looks to eschew the need for a discrete graphics card for multi-panel setups.

Full specs, including those pertaining to non-graphics processing performance, are slated to be revealed , one day prior to the Computex Taipei trade show.
post #2 of 136
Pretty cool.

I wonder what Apple has on tap for the next gen ARM chips? I have a few guesses.
post #3 of 136
The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?
post #4 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post

The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?

I think Mac mini, too
post #5 of 136
For current models, the 13" Macbook Pro w/ and w/o retina uses only the intel HD4000 too. The 15" w/ and w/o retina have both the intel HD4000 and Nvidia GT 650M, and auto switch between the 2 on the fly. All current mac mini models use only intel HD4000 as well. All the new-ish imac models use discrete Nvidia graphics chips.
post #6 of 136
And no matter what Intel touts they get completely obliterated by SoC with real discrete GPU cores.


The next gen SoC will continue to have ImgTec GPGPUs on them. Intel cannot touch their capacities, performance and power use.

The Air and unfortunately, Mac mini, have these hack-neyed shared memory graphics units.
post #7 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada View Post

Retina Macbook Air. They will sell millions.

Yes. As Apple fans we should not just look at graphics performance, but the max res. It could be a hint of future Apple Retina products. Even the name Iris might not only be a reference to the eye, but a hint that Apple had input.

post #8 of 136
Not interested in more performance for the MB Air. Need a better battery
post #9 of 136

Good. Now slot these into the rMBP 13" er's and roll em out by July. I'm tired of sitting on my hands, and I imagine the staff at the local Best Buy and Apple Stores are sick of me playing with their display models and not buying anything.
 

post #10 of 136
Integrated graphics isn't very usefull, but apple must use because of space and energy compustion and even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.

I think a solution for Apple is to use an over clocked 16 core G6630 Rouge GPU as standalone discrete graphic. It can achieve performance of mid end graphic cards in about 1 W compustion and its size is just a few dozens of mm^2. They can put it in 13 Mac book retina, 11 inch Mac book Air, maybe even into iPad.
post #11 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusephe View Post

Integrated graphics isn't very usefull, but apple must use because of space and energy compustion and even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.

I think a solution for Apple is to use an over clocked 16 core G6630 Rouge GPU as standalone discrete graphic. It can achieve performance of mid end graphic cards in about 1 W compustion and its size is just a few dozens of mm^2. They can put it in 13 Mac book retina, 11 inch Mac book Air, maybe even into iPad.

 

Cool story, bro.

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post #12 of 136
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Originally Posted by SCProfessor View Post

So how is Hasbro a big deal if you are already running a supped up graphics card?

 

It's not. Haswell is reportedly a 10% improvement over Ivy-Bridge on the CPU. BFD.

post #13 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

 

Cool story, bro.

"professional gaming"... oh boy

post #14 of 136
Air Performance is well. I am not interested in more performance. Better battery would be nice and more useful.

Pc Game is over. Performance Game as well.
Future is Tablet and there is ARM the King.
post #15 of 136
A higher resolution would be nice but what I would love to see more is a battery slice that attaches to the bottom of the MacBook Air 11. I love my Air but the battery life could defiantly be better.
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post #16 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post

The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?

Not true. ALL Mac laptops use integrated graphics - at least some of the time. (Maybe the iMac, too, but I'm not sure). On the MacBook Pro, the 13" also uses ONLY integrated graphics. The 15" MBP uses integrated graphics when you don't need the dedicated GPU - there's no point on wasting battery life on dedicated graphics when you're only recalculating a spreadsheet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

And no matter what Intel touts they get completely obliterated by SoC with real discrete GPU cores.


The next gen SoC will continue to have ImgTec GPGPUs on them. Intel cannot touch their capacities, performance and power use.

The Air and unfortunately, Mac mini, have these hack-neyed shared memory graphics units.

That would all be true - if you are completely incapable of understanding that not everyone wants to play high resolution action games at 100 fps.

For many users, the integrated graphics are more than sufficient. Heck, I never turn on the GPU on my system and don't notice any delays. Not everyone needs the highest computer graphics performance. And when you consider that there's a cost (purchase price, space taken up, and battery usage) for discrete graphics, it's not unreasonable to offer some models without it.
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post #17 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post

The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?

 

Sadly not, Apple decided to place it into the 13" MacBook Pro as the only option. Sure, it's fine for most people but considering the price tag and the fact that it's a Pro machine I find it sadly lacking.

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post #18 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Sadly not, Apple decided to place it into the 13" MacBook Pro as the only option. Sure, it's fine for most people but considering the price tag and the fact that it's a Pro machine I find it sadly lacking.

Agreed, IMHO it isn't really a MBP at all, that classification should be only for those with a minimum level of graphics performance for a given model release however that is achieved. The models without the extra graphics card should be MacBooks. That isn't to say the built in graphics of today are not mo powerful than the dedicated graphics of a few years back but at any given product release the MBP title should only be given to those with the highest levels.
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post #19 of 136
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Originally Posted by TexDeafy View Post

I don't want any of fucking integrated video card from Intel! They're fucking sucks. I'd rather use Nvidia or AMD's ATI. Any of Mac devices with integrated Intel video card is so FUCKED!

Both is a good solution as a power saver when on battery and not using FCPro or Photoshop. So by all means keep improving the integrated performance but for MBPs retain the powerful additional graphics. One day I'm sure there will be an all in one solution but for now dual is the best way to go.
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post #20 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarry de View Post

Not interested in more performance for the MB Air. Need a better battery

The way they designed this one is intended to improve battery life. They put in more cores but underclocked them:

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/07/haswell-gt3-uses-shaders-to-save-power/

When you need the GPU performance, it'll run really well and when you don't, it'll save power vs the last-gen.

The performance gains looks to be in line with what they have been saying but we'll only know for sure when the actual processors arrive - some of the 06 scores look a bit low. The desktop ones are much better than I expected. The model listed as 65W has the 5200 GPU and the one at 84W has the 4600. It seems like they'd be better off not bothering with the 84W model but they'll probably sell it cheaper.

I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.
post #21 of 136
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post
The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?

 

No, all MacBook Pros and the Mac Mini.


Originally Posted by jusephe View Post
Integrated graphics isn't very useful…

 

Did you read anything about these?


…even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.

 

1. There is no such thing as "professional gaming." You don't know what you're talking about.

2. The laptop Haswell iGPU is equivalent to a GeForce 650.


I think a solution for Apple is to use an over clocked 16 core G6630 Rouge GPU as standalone discrete graphic.

 

Why, when this is better in every way?


Originally Posted by TexDeafy View Post
I don't want any of fucking integrated video card from Intel! They're fucking sucks. I'd rather use Nvidia or AMD's ATI. Any of Mac devices with integrated Intel video card is so FUCKED!

 

So I take it you didn't bother reading the story.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #22 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarry de View Post

Not interested in more performance for the MB Air. Need a better battery

A betters battery certainly wouldn't hurt. However I currently wouldn't consider an AIR at all due to the terrible processor and GPU performance. It is getting real close to the point where Haswell might make a Mini attractive to me. It all depends upon the exact configuration. All I can say is " Go for it Apple".
post #23 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post

The Air is the only Mac product that uses Intel integrated graphics, correct?

All Mac notebooks use integrated graphics, but the 15" MBP also comes with a discrete GPU.

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post #24 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The way they designed this one is intended to improve battery life. They put in more cores but underclocked them:

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/07/haswell-gt3-uses-shaders-to-save-power/

When you need the GPU performance, it'll run really well and when you don't, it'll save power vs the last-gen.
We hope. In any event Haswell in the AIRs, could really supercharge these models. That is if Apple selects the right chips. No matter what Intel does, Apple still needs to execute a fresh design the leverage the right chip.
Quote:
The performance gains looks to be in line with what they have been saying but we'll only know for sure when the actual processors arrive - some of the 06 scores look a bit low. The desktop ones are much better than I expected. The model listed as 65W has the 5200 GPU and the one at 84W has the 4600. It seems like they'd be better off not bothering with the 84W model but they'll probably sell it cheaper.
Dreaming of XMac right now. That 65 watt variant would be ideal for the low end model.
Quote:
I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.

I suspect the big problem with iMac pricing is everything but the processor.
post #25 of 136
But isn't triple the performance of nothing still nothing?
post #26 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
2. The laptop Haswell iGPU is equivalent to a GeForce 650.

 

Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.

sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.

post #27 of 136
Apple using integrated graphics in the 13" Retina Pro is criminal.
post #28 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if they use IGPs in the entry iMacs and it might let them get the prices back down to where they were before.

Don't they already do that with the education iMac?

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post #29 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

But isn't triple the performance of nothing still nothing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Apple using integrated graphics in the 13" Retina Pro is criminal.

These aren't reasonable comments.

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post #30 of 136
Originally Posted by msantti View Post
But isn't triple the performance of nothing still nothing?

 

Eventually when you multiply crap it becomes better than the best not-crap. 

 

I was the first to denounce iGPUs… back in the day. But if this actually performs how Intel is saying it will (both internally and externally), then it's finally a contender for meaningful GPU work on a budget ("budget" meaning "you actually don't have to buy anything extra to get performance out of it").


Originally Posted by Zozman View Post
Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.

 

Marvin's quite confident in that, from what he has seen, and I know a guy who works at Intel in the "making the chips that will be released five years from now" department (there's probably a classier name for it) who says the same thing about Haswell.


sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.

 

That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #31 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

We hope. In any event Haswell in the AIRs, could really supercharge these models. That is if Apple selects the right chips. No matter what Intel does, Apple still needs to execute a fresh design the leverage the right chip.

Despite the CPU performance of the current MBAs being on par with MBPs from not too many years ago I have doubts that you'd accept anything Apple does in this category. You just said the current CPUs are terrible; not simply too slow for your needs, but terrible. So how can adding another 17W TDP CULV into the MBAs be the "right chips" when you always seem to want the fastest chips possible as your starting point? You aren't going to get a 45W Haswell chip in the MBA... EVER!

And that's all before we get to the GPU, soldered RAM, lack of expansion ports, and smaller space for a large SSD card. I simply find it hard to see how anyone that dreams of the elusive Xmac would be happy with Apple's goals for the MBA.
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/2/13 at 6:22am

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post #32 of 136
Note the phrase "up to". Or to put it another way peak performance in a specific situation. That still leave intel plenty of room to fall no its face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Really? man i hope so, GeForce GT 650M? as in the same card that the 15 rMBP uses & current alienware gaming laptops?.
It probably won't even come close in sustained performance.
Quote:
sounds super unlikely, i wouldn't argue if its the case, it would mean that discreet GPUs in laptops days are over & would be redundant.
11
That will happen some time in the future but I'm not certain it will happen in the next couple of years. For one thing both AMD and Intel run into bandwidth problems to main memory on their APUs. This means that implementation of the RAM array can adversely impact the GPU component. I wouldn't be surprised at to find routinely
post #33 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
That's part of the reason why Haswell is splitting up iGPU power between desktops and laptops. The desktop Haswell chips have a worse iGPU because Intel figures you'll have a dedicated card there. The laptop chips have a MUCH better iGPU because, hey, the more power that can be shoehorned in without having to lose battery life (and gain heat) on a dedicated chip the better. 

 

I hope it turns out this way.

I'm a little skeptical of what the companies say about the benchmarks & graphic output of their chips.

ivy-bridge & HD 4000 promised massive GPU gains, benchmarks after release only showed a few percent gains, like most things in tech these days its an evolution not a revolution, no complains.

if my mac mini dies, a haswell based mac mini would be on bought so fast!.

post #34 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


1. There is no such thing as "professional gaming." You don't know what you're talking about

Yah there is. They even have their own organization. MLG

Majorleaguegaming.com. These guys get paid to play. A buddy of mine gets flown to these events and gets paid. Not much though. But it exists.

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #35 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


So I take it you didn't bother reading the story.

Blah

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post #36 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by jusephe View Post

Integrated graphics isn't very usefull, but apple must use because of space and energy compustion and even through the 3X gain is nice, it's still not for professional gaming.

I doubt that the number of professional gamers in the world is very large.

post #37 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Apple using integrated graphics in the 13" Retina Pro is criminal.

My 13" MBP drives the 27" Cinema Display very well. I'm not sure how it could be better.

post #38 of 136
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post
Majorleaguegaming.com. These guys get paid to play. A buddy of mine gets flown to these events and gets paid. Not much though. But it exists.

 

This seems ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #39 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This seems ludicrous.

No more ludicrous then any other professional sport, at least with this one normal people can participate.
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post #40 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

My 13" MBP drives the 27" Cinema Display very well. I'm not sure how it could be better.

3 55" 4K monitors, you know for better viewing of spreadsheets and such.
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