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Intel outlines upcoming Core i7 'Haswell' integrated graphics, touts up to triple performance - Page 4

post #121 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

A mac pro mini having a Xeon + ECC RAM + Quadro K500M GPU would be a nice pro addition. If it starts at the $1699 price slot it would be attractive and have a sufficiently high ASP to fit the lineup well (as in little iMac cannibalization and a good low end Mac Pro entry point)

 

This would need a chassis that was larger than the existing Mac mini; maybe something, dare I say, about the size of a retired Mac Cube…

 

Give it a fat 3TB Fusion Drive, and basic A/V I/O, you have the new SGI O2, ready to be snapped up by schools everywhere…!

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post #122 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

 

This would need a chassis that was larger than the existing Mac mini; maybe something, dare I say, about the size of a retired Mac Cube…

 

Give it a fat 3TB Fusion Drive, and basic A/V I/O, you have the new SGI O2, ready to be snapped up by schools everywhere…!

 

A Mac Cube form factor would be cool by me as would a modern SGI O2.  I think that if you're going to bump the form factor you might as well make it big enough to hold a single full sized card in a x16 slot.

 

From a purely thermal perspective it looks like it's vaguely within parameters of the last gen with a GPU if you remove the HDD bays in favor of the SSD sticks for more space and cooling.  Maybe need to move the power supply out as a brick again as well.

 

Eh, it's not very likely but it sure is fun to dream.  I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

post #123 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

From a purely thermal perspective it looks like it's vaguely within parameters of the last gen with a GPU if you remove the HDD bays in favor of the SSD sticks for more space and cooling.  Maybe need to move the power supply out as a brick again as well.

 

NO POWER BRICKS / LINE LUMPS! I'd much much much much rather deal with a larger computer chassis than put up with the hassle of fitting a @#$%& two-pound block behind the equipment!

 

When we upgraded the mini in our living room to the new style I shed a tear of joy as I extricated the power supply for the old one from the morass of cables and hurled it across the room.

post #124 of 136
When I replace my dual core Sandy Bridge mini, a quad core Haswell mini should be a welcome upgrade.
post #125 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Yes.  So for many folks the MBA is not a "terrible" machine.
You seem to be hung up on the word not the concept. For any the Mac Pro is a terrible machine.
Quote:

When I go out to buy a car I compare it to what my NEEDS are, not relative to all the other cars on the market.  If the 2013 F-150 now has enough towing capacity for what I need then it doesn't really matter that the 2013 F-250 can tow twice as much.  The fact is that smaller modern engines, like modern CPUs, have as much power as larger truck engines in the past.  Likewise towing capacity isn't just dependent on the engine but the transmission, frame, brakes, axles, etc.
You realize what you have said above supports my position. It makes no sense at all to compare today's trucks with vehicles from 3 or 4 years ago.
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And the real world isn't all about CPU performance.
True but again the user plays a part here.
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Except that the Ivy Bridge Core i7 does support OpenCL.  Just not in OSX but that's hardly Intel's fault.  Intel just released updated drivers for OpenCL 1.2.
It isn't however supported on Mac OS yet which is the big concern in this thread. Further we don't know what Apples plans are here. I would love nothing more to see that support in the next Mac OS release but they have had multiple chances to correct this and have missed each time so we are on hold until something is indicated one way or the other.
Quote:
Which means that Apple doesn't consider OpenCL GPU support to be very important to OSX given that the Mini, MBA and the 13" MBP all lack OpenCL support despite the fact that it is available on Intel GPUs.  This may not change even with Haswell or if it does it may be retroactive to IvyBridge machines just like the new Intel OpenCL drivers are for both Haswell and IvyBridge.
I'm not sure what is up with OpenCL support. As a technology it has seen wide acceptance over other solutions, sadly more often than not on other platforms. Of course Apples silence on these matters doesn't help any. So we don't really know why the lag in OpenCL support on these platforms, it could be any number of issues including Apple not considering it important.
Quote:
Are you going to say the MBP 13" is also a terrible machine?

Why not it would make your day wouldn't it!!! Actually I'm considering it a possibility if it gets the sort of Haswell upgrade I want to see. But to be honest I find a 13" screen to be small for my laptop needs. Even a 15" screen can be cramped for my needs.
post #126 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

This would need a chassis that was larger than the existing Mac mini; maybe something, dare I say, about the size of a retired Mac Cube…
Maybe maybe not. It really depends upon how hard Apple and Intel pushes technology. A low wattage Xeon coupled to one of the new RAM technologies could compact the Mini significantly possibly leaving room for the GPU.
Quote:
Give it a fat 3TB Fusion Drive, and basic A/V I/O, you have the new SGI O2, ready to be snapped up by schools everywhere…!
That might not be all that difficult. With the SSD on a PCI Express card you save a little more space and leave room for the hard drive. I'm not saying it would be a snap but there is the technology out there to make the Mini more interesting. This is one of the things I harp on from time to time, just put as much effort into it as you do the laptops and sales would soar.
post #127 of 136
I actually mis the brick. It made the Mini easy to configure for odd locations where normal AC wasn't happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

NO POWER BRICKS / LINE LUMPS! I'd much much much much rather deal with a larger computer chassis than put up with the hassle of fitting a @#$%& two-pound block behind the equipment!
Well that is the ugly flip side. The problem is that that brick takes up a non trivial amount of space inside the machine. It would be nice to see a Mini with a lower design wattage allowing for a smaller brick. Haswell might not be there yet but a 50 watt Mini could happen in the 2014-2015 time frame while enhancing performance.
[/Quote]
When we upgraded the mini in our living room to the new style I shed a tear of joy as I extricated the power supply for the old one from the morass of cables and hurled it across the room.
[/quote]

So who created that morass of cables?

It isn't that I don't understand you point of view just that there are other points of view that impact the desirability of those external power supplies.
post #128 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You realize what you have said above supports my position. It makes no sense at all to compare today's trucks with vehicles from 3 or 4 years ago.

 

No it doesn't.  You state that the MBA has a terrible processor relative to other machines.  This is exactly like saying the 2013 F-150 truck is terrible relative to the 2013 F250 truck with the larger engine regardless of what you need.

 

What I am saying is I need a truck to tow X lbs.  In 2010 that required a F250.  In 2013 I can buy a F150 and tow the same weight.  Therefore it makes perfect sense to compare today's F150 against a F250 from 3 years ago to meet my towing needs.

 

I need a CPU capable of running XCode and Eclipse quickly so I'm not waiting on beachballs for my sized projects.  That's often more IO bound than CPU bound anyway with a modern processor.

post #129 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

No it doesn't.  You state that the MBA has a terrible processor relative to other machines.  This is exactly like saying the 2013 F-150 truck is terrible relative to the 2013 F250 truck with the larger engine regardless of what you need.
It is a terrible choice if you need the features of an F250.
Quote:
What I am saying is I need a truck to tow X lbs.  In 2010 that required a F250.  In 2013 I can buy a F150 and tow the same weight.  Therefore it makes perfect sense to compare today's F150 against a F250 from 3 years ago to meet my towing needs.
It only makes sense if buying a used truck is a possibility.
Quote:
I need a CPU capable of running XCode and Eclipse quickly so I'm not waiting on beachballs for my sized projects.  That's often more IO bound than CPU bound anyway with a modern processor.
I could argue that those programs are as much memory bound as anything. Both of them though can leverage just about any number of cores you can throw at them.
post #130 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

It is a terrible choice if you need the features of an F250.

nht's logic is sound. If in 2010 you needed certain features/performance that are only possible on the F250 and not the F150 then the F250 was the only viable option. But if in 2013 you still only need those same features/performance but now they are available on the F150 and the F250 is overkill for those same needs then why go for the extra cost, size, weight, power consumption of the F250 when the F150 will suit those same needs just as well, if not better for certain tasks? As much I don't care for the car analogy this one seems quite congruent to the whole MBA v. MBP argument, especially if we're talking about the 13" models.

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post #131 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I actually mis the brick. It made the Mini easy to configure for odd locations where normal AC wasn't happening.

The reason I wanted Apple to maintain the poser brick design is so they could make the ATD MagSafe adapter work with the Mac mini which would obviously eliminate another cable. It might mean the power supply in the ATD would have to be beefed up but I recall correctly I think it can handle the load. It would require some special lock for the connector so that the battery-less Mac mini wouldn't accidentally lose power.

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post #132 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


nht's logic is sound. If in 2010 you needed certain features/performance that are only possible on the F250 and not the F150 then the F250 was the only viable option. But if in 2013 you still only need those same features/performance but now they are available on the F150 and the F250 is overkill for those same needs then why go for the extra cost, size, weight, power consumption of the F250 when the F150 will suit those same needs just as well, if not better for certain tasks? As much I don't care for the car analogy this one seems quite congruent to the whole MBA v. MBP argument, especially if we're talking about the 13" models.


Blah I hate car analogies unless they involve ram upgrades. Do you pay the Porsche dealer for those Pirelli tires or go to the garage down the street? Anyway there is almost always some amount of growth in software demands. Even OSX has certain minimum requirements. Removing cpus that must be validated, you're still left with minimum OpenGL version and minimum memory requirements. Those have escalated even outside of the 64 bit transition period. It's usually more whether hardware has outpaced software. Part of what kept towers as the sole viable option so long in certain fields was the combination of slow 2.5" drives, limited ram, and 32 bit applications. When ram and hard drives as either scratch disks or virtual memory address space could be such a huge bottleneck, it killed any kind of leverage on lighter hardware. I would still say that desktops in many cases could continue to produce better value if Apple didn't like to make them less attractive using their matrix of pricing and features. As for Haswell, intel's early numbers are not always in line with reality, which is why I'm skeptical on statements like "up to triple performance".

post #133 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Do you pay the Porsche dealer for those Pirelli tires or go to the garage down the street?

That depends. Do you have to remove the windshield in order to get access to the tires? 1biggrin.gif

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post #134 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That depends. Do you have to remove the windshield in order to get access to the tires? 1biggrin.gif


Not the windshield. Perhaps the flux capacitor. This video suggests it's fairly easy, but he just talks about it. Right now I'm tempted to create a picture of a Mini with Pirelli tires.

post #135 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


Not the windshield. Perhaps the flux capacitor. This video suggests it's fairly easy, but he just talks about it. Right now I'm tempted to create a picture of a Mini with Pirelli tires.

I hope my comparison to upgrading RAM on the 21.5" iMac wasn't lost.

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post #136 of 136
Knowing Apple, somehow I don't feel they would put in better graphics in the mini even if the power brick still existed.
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