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NYT article accuses Apple of not doing enough to prevent iPhone thefts - Page 4

post #121 of 151
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
The article is an article, who gives a carp about its premise?

 

Tautology doesn't excuse putting the blame on Apple for something that is their problem.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #122 of 151

Whose problem?

 

The article didn't put the blame on Apple, it suggested, with citations from experts in law enforcement and in the industry, that the industry could do more to put in place measures to combat the problem.  Which it can.

 

Some quoted in the article said that it should.  That's a matter of opinion, but it's hardly the worst opinion in the world.

 

The AI headline is far more confrontational and misleading than anything in the NYT.

 

Wipe away the froth.

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post #123 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

It has to do with their consumers though. Are you seriously suggesting that Apple should make a point of not offering a feature that would be a big value-add for their users to make a political point against the NYT?

There is something wrong in your head when you take your defence of Apple to such absurd depths.

Damn right. Apple should release the iCuffs as an attachment to the iPhone so you can securely attach it to your body. In addition the iAngel app should summon the Hell's Angels to watch you and protect you.
post #124 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Damn right. Apple should release the iCuffs as an attachment to the iPhone so you can securely attach it to your body.

 

Not a terrible suggestion.  The iPod Touch has the loop which attaches to the phone and slips over your wrist.  It's a small measure, but if it had a bit of strength to it then it might be able to prevent a few snatch and grabs.

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post #125 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by See Flat View Post

Do you lock your car doors?

Do you put a  lock on your bicycle when going to get a coffee downtown?

Do you leave your wallet on a table in a restaurant?

 

Phone (no matter the brand), laptop, mp3 player. 

 

All the same thing. It's your stuff, be vigilant

I absolutely 100% disagree with you.  Crime is not created by the presence of victims.  Victims do not "deserve it".  In fact, I know many people who do not lock their automobiles (it's pretty pointless with a convertable, yes?), and even who do not lock their homes when away. They do not deserve to be victimized. The crime is not justified.  To argue such is the same argument that justifies rape based upon the victims appearance or clothing.  No.  You are wrong.  Period. Human beings in a civil society are not fish--they are not obliged to "take the bait" that's just sitting there. Because they know whether something is right or wrong.  And if you believe otherwise, perhaps you should be re-educated--or maybe you don't live in a civil society.

post #126 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Car companies are doing a lot. Educate yourself. (Also, read the NYT article). Moreover, taking out an iPhone to make a call or watch a video or listen to a song or surf the web is not "flashing a pricey product in public." Do you use yours only in private?

 

Apple has dropped the ball on this. That is simply a fact. Don't get so defensive.


Of course Apple could do more but why has Apple dropped the ball? Isn't it rather that the cellphone industry has dropped the ball?

 

This might not apply to you, but I feel that sometimes when Apple is criticised but not it peers that are guilty of the same thing this is done because Apple is somewhat polarising and therefore is always a happy ground that just love to lash out at Apple, not in particular for its current failings, but because of some other grievance that Apple has caused them.

post #127 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

...We did use find my iphone and knew about where it was located until they removed the sim...

 

Removing the SIM does not affect Find my iPhone, as long as it is still on, any Internet connection will work, cellular or wifi.

 

The Police sound like they are not willing to do their job if they ignore a screenshot of a find my iPhone report.

 

It seems corporations, who often pay less tax or worse get subsidised by taxpayers get a better Police service than average citizens.

 

Then again I guess the primary role of any Police force at any given point in history has always been to protect the rich.

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post #128 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

I absolutely 100% disagree with you.  Crime is not created by the presence of victims.  Victims do not "deserve it".  In fact, I know many people who do not lock their automobiles (it's pretty pointless with a convertable, yes?), and even who do not lock their homes when away. They do not deserve to be victimized. The crime is not justified.  To argue such is the same argument that justifies rape based upon the victims appearance or clothing.  No.  You are wrong.  Period. Human beings in a civil society are not fish--they are not obliged to "take the bait" that's just sitting there. Because they know whether something is right or wrong.  And if you believe otherwise, perhaps you should be re-educated--or maybe you don't live in a civil society.


Absolutely agree. There are things that do not inconvenience people very much (like locking a door, or not leaving your wallet on a table in a restaurant) where one can give out friendly advice that locking your door will reduce the chances that something bad happens to you.

 

In the end, advice is generally is ok if it suggests reasonable measures. But not using your (smart)phone in public places is not really a reasonable advice.

post #129 of 151
All Apple has to do is force iPhone's and iPads to only be able to be restored with a computer signed in with the same Apple ID and Password.

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post #130 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Yes, that does seem a simple fix doesn't it?

 

Then with your idea any passworded phone would provide an opportunity window for tracking etc. immediately after when the phone would potentially still be in the area.


Exactly. It's a no-brainer and an easy way for Apple to help with iPhone theft.

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post #131 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


No, wrong analogy. Example: two thefts in 2011, all left handed, one in 2012, right handed. Without the left handed thefts, there is an increase in thefts.


Oops. You're right. The logic twisted my brain.

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post #132 of 151
How has Apple dropped the ball on this? Apple has the best feature ever that stops people from stealing iPhones! I know if I saw one sitting on a table in a restaurant or something, I definitely wouldn't pick it up. Maybe just to take it to the front desk. iPhones send out GPS signals, and you can just use the Find My iPhone app on another person's iOS device or Mac and you can find exactly where your iPhone is. Then you can send the cops after the thief or just go to their house yourself and beat the shit out of them, lol.
post #133 of 151

 NYT?!

Seriously? What's wrong with them? Why all these Apple-bashings?

post #134 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

So what could they be doing better?

For one, they could silently track devices when they are stolen, Cell carriers have been able to do this since the switch from Analog. The technology is in the phone (AGPS.)

Prevent wiping/resetting/tethering/sim-removal if the device is locked. Like
If the device is at the lock screen and any of the following happen...
- SIM card removed, send a tamper-alert to the cell carrier to track the device until the screen is unlocked
- No wipe or factory reset while the screen is locked
- No access to data on the device while the screen is locked (eg do not allow anything but USB charge while locked)

In addition, from any other computer, the user can login to their apple account and send any of the following commands
- Remote track on/off - this will track the device wether the screen is locked or not, allowing law enforcement to track it.
- Remote data salvage - this will send all the data from the device to apple (regardless of the device size) allowing the data to be downloaded to a computer or...
- Remote data erase - this will erase all user-data from the device, but not the screen lock password, allowing law enforcement to still track it
- Remote self-destruct - this will tell the device to overwrite it's firmware and can not be restored except by taking it to an Apple store where the Apple representative can clearly see it's been stolen before servicing.

Allowing law-enforcement to track the device means you consider the device to be stolen. The software should have some geo-fences setup to prevent confusion between stolen and merely lost/forgotten. For example a geofence within it's home wireless access point means that the device is unlikely to be stolen. Geofences at their place of work also mean the device is probably lost at work, and can only be located while inside those geofences. (This can be done on all macs equipped with wireless adapters, even if they aren't used to connect to the network.) A Geofence can also be setup for "hometown" which means that if the device is lost/stolen on a trip outside the town, the device automatically reports where it is.

For privacy reasons, the tracking data should only store the last hour unless it's locked, in which case it should store the tracking data until the device is unlocked or remotely destroyed.
post #135 of 151

I'm starting to question NYT's editorial integrity...

 

"In San Francisco last year, nearly half of all robberies involved a cellphone, up from 36 percent the year before; in Washington, cellphones were taken in 42 percent of robberies, a record. In New York, theft of iPhones and iPads last year accounted for 14 percent of all crimes."

 

"Apple provides some assistance in locating lost or stolen phones with its free software,Find My iPhone, which can find a missing iPhone or remotely erase its data."

 

"Google does not include any software in its Android operating system to help people locate a missing phone, although some third-party Android apps offer the feature."

 

WTF! Where is the story? Are they running out of news to write about? The writer draws a direct cause-effect link between phone theft with profits for phone makers that seemingly affects a lot of victims... Go spend time on gun control, silly politics and wall street crooks, this is bs.

post #136 of 151
Originally Posted by Techboy View Post
I'm starting to question NYT's editorial integrity...

 

Just starting?

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #137 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techboy View Post

WTF! Where is the story? Are they running out of news to write about? The writer draws a direct cause-effect link between phone theft with profits for phone makers that seemingly affects a lot of victims... 

 

The story is obvious.   Cities don't want to spend extra money dealing with thefts (even marginally) that they think can be prevented by phone makers implementing various technology.

 

Many people will remember that insurance companies and car owners pushed for steering wheel locks and coded keys for similar reasons.

 

Quote:
Go spend time on gun control, silly politics and wall street crooks, this is bs.

 

That's what they want to spend time on.  Not dealing with crime rate increases caused by electronic thefts.

post #138 of 151
Always heartwarming to witness a political hack validate our culture's cynicism about their grasping opportunism.
post #139 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It won't, in most cases if it is a drug addict, they'll be looking for a quick buck and sell the iPhone cheaply, they probably already know where to go to sell it and that person will know how to bypass antitheft methods.

How do you figure? Or did you miss the part about the carriers not allowing the phones to connect to the network? If the phone identifiers are on a "stolen" list, or don't match those that are supposed to be on the network...no connection....period. It's now an iPod Touch. Certainly not worth $500 to anyone, but complete fools....this isn't rocket science.

This won't stop thieves, but will certainly curtail the theft of iPhones. Of course, as many others have stated.....be personally responsible for your crap, and that will be the best reduction in theft.
post #140 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

For one, they could silently track devices when they are stolen, Cell carriers have been able to do this since the switch from Analog. The technology is in the phone (AGPS.)

Prevent wiping/resetting/tethering/sim-removal if the device is locked. Like
If the device is at the lock screen and any of the following happen...
- SIM card removed, send a tamper-alert to the cell carrier to track the device until the screen is unlocked
- No wipe or factory reset while the screen is locked
- No access to data on the device while the screen is locked (eg do not allow anything but USB charge while locked)

In addition, from any other computer, the user can login to their apple account and send any of the following commands
- Remote track on/off - this will track the device wether the screen is locked or not, allowing law enforcement to track it.
- Remote data salvage - this will send all the data from the device to apple (regardless of the device size) allowing the data to be downloaded to a computer or...
- Remote data erase - this will erase all user-data from the device, but not the screen lock password, allowing law enforcement to still track it
- Remote self-destruct - this will tell the device to overwrite it's firmware and can not be restored except by taking it to an Apple store where the Apple representative can clearly see it's been stolen before servicing.

Allowing law-enforcement to track the device means you consider the device to be stolen. The software should have some geo-fences setup to prevent confusion between stolen and merely lost/forgotten. For example a geofence within it's home wireless access point means that the device is unlikely to be stolen. Geofences at their place of work also mean the device is probably lost at work, and can only be located while inside those geofences. (This can be done on all macs equipped with wireless adapters, even if they aren't used to connect to the network.) A Geofence can also be setup for "hometown" which means that if the device is lost/stolen on a trip outside the town, the device automatically reports where it is.

For privacy reasons, the tracking data should only store the last hour unless it's locked, in which case it should store the tracking data until the device is unlocked or remotely destroyed.

Most of these features are already available.
post #141 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyGuyBC View Post

How do you figure? Or did you miss the part about the carriers not allowing the phones to connect to the network? If the ne identifiers are on a "stolen" list, or don't match those that are supposed to be on the network...no connection....period. It's now an iPod Touch. Certainly not worth $500 to anyone, but complete fools....this isn't rocket science.

This won't stop thieves, but will certainly curtail the theft of iPhones. Of course, as many others have stated.....be personally responsible for your crap, and that will be the best reduction in theft.

How many GSM networks exist in this world? Is every carrier going to know not to allow the phone onto it's network. Even CDMA phones with bad ESNs can be flashed onto another CDMA network. People were flashing lost or stolen HTC EVOs from Sprint over to Boost Mobile. If Sprint can't even stop it's stolen phones to be activated on another network that it owns how's anyone else going to?
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post #142 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Car companies are doing a lot. Educate yourself. (Also, read the NYT article). Moreover, taking out an iPhone to make a call or watch a video or listen to a song or surf the web is not "flashing a pricey product in public." Do you use yours only in private?

 

Apple has dropped the ball on this. That is simply a fact. Don't get so defensive.

Very good.

post #143 of 151

BS! APPLE CAN DO A LOT MORE!


EVERY Apple device that receives software updates (iphones, ipads, ipods, computers,...), pings Apple's servers with device information and waits for authorization before updating.

That is when Apple can disable a stolen device.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #144 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

 

 

In the end, advice is generally is ok if it suggests reasonable measures. But not using your (smart)phone in public places is not really a reasonable advice.

Who said anything about not using your smartphone in public? People are careless, and leave their phone on a chair while they go to get a sip of water.

When people claim their phone was stolen, I dont' think it's a hold up in most cases.

It's negligence.

post #145 of 151

iWatch should be a good solution for this.

post #146 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

The story is obvious.   Cities don't want to spend extra money dealing with thefts (even marginally) that they think can be prevented by phone makers implementing various technology.

 

Many people will remember that insurance companies and car owners pushed for steering wheel locks and coded keys for similar reasons.

 

 

That's what they want to spend time on.  Not dealing with crime rate increases caused by electronic thefts.

 

If car theft and insurance companies is the best example you can find, this "phone theft" crime isn't going away. If someone is losing a few phone via "theft" per year, I question this person for not being an idiot in the first place. You can't draw a direct cause-effect on petty crime like this and expect manufacturers to "DO MORE". More of what? You really want a kill switch on your phone? More tracking and give up more privacy?

 

Here's a good way of avoiding phone theft, go get an android. Better yet, the the most ugly looking and out going model. Done deal, this is a phone theft prevention in a bottle. Oh, you may even save a few dollars.

 

Don't take a simple issue and make it more complicated and expect a "tech solution" for everything. It's just common sense.

post #147 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by See Flat View Post

Who said anything about not using your smartphone in public? People are careless, and leave their phone on a chair while they go to get a sip of water.

When people claim their phone was stolen, I dont' think it's a hold up in most cases.

It's negligence.

See Flat, user noirdeir was responding to a post in this thread where the writer blames the victim for "flashing" expensive items in public, such as large-denomination currency, or Rolex watches, or diamonds, or iPhones.  Yes, the implication was clear; you should not use your iPhone in some areas, because you're asking to be robbed.

 

As to your point about carelessness: let us distinguish between the actual carelessness whereby a person drops their phone in the toilet, or loses it in (never to be found) in the forest, where the loss involves only the actions of the oneself, and not the actual taking of someone else's property with the intent of personal gain.  Now if I see someone unknowingly drop a $5 bill in the parking lot, and I have opportunity to pick up the bill, then it is my ethical obligation to return it to the person, if possible.  If I intentionally wait until they drive away, then I could take the bill, but I will still have obtained it unethically.  If I merely find a $5 bill in the parking lot, then it's mine: there is no way to identify the owner.  If I find a $50,000 automobile in the parking lot, it is *not* mine to take... ownership may be determined.  And if I find a bag of $50,000 cash in the lot, I can assume it will be claimed and it is my obligation to offer it to the authorities.  Similarly, if I find a $5 bill in a wallet containing ID and contact information, then it is my ethical obligation to either return it or deposit it with a civil "lost and found".  And similarly, if I find a $700 iPhone, anywhere, at any time, it is not mine to take.  Even if its broken, or has a depreciated value of only $5.  Regardless of how the phone came to be laying in the parking lot, or on the bar counter, or in the bathroom, or in the airplane seat-back pocket.  That the owner was negligent in keeping track of it is irrelevant.  It is not mine.

post #148 of 151

it amazes me here in L.A. when people leave their MacBooks in a Starbucks to go to the bathroom and ask Larry David to watch it. 

post #149 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyM View Post

it amazes me here in L.A. when people leave their MacBooks in a Starbucks to go to the bathroom and ask Larry David to watch it. 

If you can't trust Larry David then who can you trust?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #150 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyM View Post

it amazes me here in L.A. when people leave their MacBooks in a Starbucks to go to the bathroom and ask Larry David to watch it. 

I leave my stuff all the stuff unattended all the time. I take my phone. That's it. I figure the odds of someone swiping my stuff are very low. If I was really worried I'd use a Kensington lock on it as someone ould just as easily walk in while I'k using it, grab and head to a waiting a car outside before I could do anything.

What I don't ever do is ask anyone to watch my stuff. These strangers aren't anymore trust worthy than other strangers, and the idea of putting some burden on them as being guardians of my stuff bothers me.

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post #151 of 151

Please notify me when these c•cks•ckers print something positive about Apple. They are at war with Apple and have turned into an unreliable source for ANYTHING! The NYT is a somewhat respectable looking National Enquirer! 

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