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Samsung on Galaxy S4 storage complaints: Go buy an SD card - Page 3

post #81 of 131
Fact for Android users bragging about SD card slot

You cannot load apps into the SD card memory, so if you run out of space you have to delete apps to make room for your new ones, the SD card space can only be usedfor data, pics. movies etc.

Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


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Originally by Rickers - 2014 : Cook & will bury Apple.  They can only ride Steve's ghost so long.


History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



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post #82 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

That would be technically astonishing.  Source?

 

Actually, he kind of grossly understated it. It's far more "astonishing" at 1.35 ~ 1.78 GB/sec read/write speeds...

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6298/analyzing-iphone5-geekbench-results

 

Excerpted from that page:

 

The next thing that stood out to me was the memory data:

Geekbench Comparison
Memory Performance iPhone 4S iPhone 5 (unconfirmed) Scaling
Read Sequential ST 0.32 GB/s 1.78 GB/s 5.63x
Write Sequential ST 0.86 GB/s 1.35 GB/s 1.57x
Stdlib Allocate ST 1.44 Mallocs/s 1.92 Mallocs/s 1.33x
Stdlib Write 2.7 GB/s 6.06 GB/s 2.24x
Stdlib Copy 0.55 GB/s 2.26 GB/s 4.13x
post #83 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's already extremely expensive despite sporting some clearly inferior components, like the display colour accuracy, yet they want you to go buy additional components. I guess that's not a big deal for many Android users as I've oft heard over the years that they like to have additional batteries for their devices instead of a single, long lasting battery.


You are out of touch on the display colour accuracy.  The Samsung Galaxy S4 is as good as the iP5.

 

 

Quote:
Samsung Galaxy S4 vs. HTC One vs. Apple iPhone 5 display test confirms AMOLEDs can finally do accurate colors

http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-galaxy-s4-vs-htc-one-vs-apple-iphone-5-display-test-confirms-amoleds-can-finally-do-accurate-colors/

 

Supporting what I have been saying for some time, that AMOLED was not technically inferior, it was an implementation problem.

post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


You are out of touch on the display colour accuracy.  The Samsung Galaxy S4 is as good as the iP5.

Supporting what I have been saying for some time, that AMOLED was not technically inferior, it was an implementation problem.

1) I never once mentioned AMOLED and yet you make this wild assumption.

2) Right from AnandTech:
Quote:
Because "Movie" was the closest to sRGB of all the modes, I selected it for the actual results that I'll present in the table. Admittedly this mode does tighten things up a bit, but it still isn't perfect and I'd still like to see Samsung do something to reign this in at some point.

[...]

Oddly enough it seems that the North American versions at least have this renamed for some reason, but undoubtedly the function is the same. Many speculated that this is now a toggle for some full CMS (Color Management System) which "fixes" the inherent color space issues with AMOLED and oversaturation that occurs when looking at sRGB content on such devices. Unfortunately, I can confirm that my initial suspicions that this is just a continuation of the mDNIe (lite) settings from previous generation is in fact correct. I reverse engineered what I could of these settings from both kernel messages while changing the toggles, and looking at the kernel sources. Turns out that 'Professional photo' mode is actually the 'Natural' mode renamed from previous versions

or, "A 0xFF007F by any other name..."

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post #85 of 131
This is bad, and telling consumers to go buy a SD card is unacceptable. They should have included it with the phone. Those that take many photos and with a good amount of music will run out of memory rather quickly. Those that root their phones will be able to move apps to the SD card but that's not the average user. This will lead to a high rate of returns.
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post #86 of 131
Wait what, so if I buy a 16Gb iPhone and then I fill that up I should be able to demand an iPhone with a larger capacity? The Music, and extra apps can be deleted from the Samsung S4 leaving the user with 13GB of space, my husband just got one. This is a none issue . You can also flash the S4 with a pure Android ROM in 5 minutes and it takes up less then 500 MB of space.
Edited by Relic - 5/4/13 at 5:56am
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post #87 of 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post



Fact for Android users bragging about SD card slot



You cannot load apps into the SD card memory, so if you run out of space you have to delete apps to make room for your new ones, the SD card space can only be usedfor data, pics. movies etc.



Actually you can, I have been doing it for years.

http://www.bongizmo.com/blog/moving-all-android-apps-to-sdcard-apps2sd-froyo/
Edited by Relic - 5/4/13 at 5:57am
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post #88 of 131
Multiple post.
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post #89 of 131
Multiple post.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #90 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

Wouldn't that mean that the mean size of your 200 apps would be 15MB?  That seems really low for a mean size (I could buy it as a median).  Or am I missing something?

 

I'm kind of surprised it's that big, but I guess compilers these days find ways to use more storage <grin>.   On the Nexus...

 

  • Simpler apps such as translators, Amazon, TV Guide, Trulia, etc are in the 1.5MB to 8MB range.  
  • Apps in the average range include Pinterest (10MB), USAToday (17MB), Weather Channel (18MB).
  • Larger ones include Angry Birds (48MB), Chrome (25MB), Skype (23MB).

 

An article last December noted that the average size of a non-game app on Android is 6MB, and on iOS it's 23MB.  (The latter probably partly retina screen graphics related.)  

 

People have done direct app comparisons before and the ratio is anywhere from two to six times larger on iOS, which some have guessed is partly due to static library includes and/or gfx.

 

The upshot is, lower storage for apps on the GS4 isn't a big deal.  It's much more important for media.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Actually, he kind of grossly understated it. It's far more "astonishing" at 1.35 ~ 1.78 GB/sec read/write speeds...

 

He was way off because that's RAM speed, and so is the other test you linked to.   Try a benchmark like Passmark which has disk (Flash) storage speed tests instead.   Speeds will range more like 10MB/sec up to perhaps 60MB/sec.

 

Geekbench doesn't test storage speeds.  It mostly tests registers, graphics and memory.  Since you brought it up, though, here's the latest popular list from their blog:

 


Edited by KDarling - 5/4/13 at 5:25am
post #91 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Wait what, so if I buy a 16Gb iPhone and then I fill that up I should be able to demand an iPhone with a larger capacity? The Music, and extra apps can be deleted from the Samsung S4 leaving the user with 13GB of space, my husband just got one. This is a none issue . You can also flash the S4 with a pure Android ROM in 5 minutes and it takes up less then 500 MB of space.

How many people actually flash ROMs? The iPhone at least gives you a decent amount of memory left to use, but 8 GB left on a 16 GB phone is a joke.
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post #92 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


How many people actually flash ROMs? The iPhone at least gives you a decent amount of memory left to use, but 8 GB left on a 16 GB phone is a joke.

 

No doubt but I like I said it's easily rectified by deleting the free media content that comes with the phone, music, videos and unwanted apps. You would actually be surprised about the number of people who now flash their phones, especially when there are programs like Odin, takes less than 5 minutes to do so.  I think people just jump to conclusion when it's a product not produced by Apple. I have moved on from an Android phone but that doesn't mean the Samsung S4 isn't a good phone.


Edited by Relic - 5/4/13 at 5:53am
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post #93 of 131
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post
…the new Galaxy comes loaded with a lot of capabilities…

 

Shut up and go away.


But kindly tell us, after you load equivalent apps from the app store, what exactly is the size difference between the pre-loaded Galaxy install and iOS?

 

To have equivalent softwares, the Galaxy is forced to add a few more gigabytes to its total. The iPhone can stay right out of the box.


Originally Posted by darkdefender View Post
Wait, the iPhone 5 doesn't transfer items at USB 3.0 speeds? How fast is Lightning?

 

As fast as the iPhone's NAND.


Originally Posted by Relic View Post
Wait what, so if I buy a 16Gb iPhone and then I fill that up I should be able to demand an iPhone with a larger capacity?

 

If by 'fill' you mean 'buy from the store'. 


The Music, and extra apps can be deleted from the Samsung S4 leaving the user with 13GB of space, my husband just got one. This is a none issue .

 

Unless you actually want to listen to music and use your phone in any way the same manner as an iPhone!

 

 You can also flash the S4 with a pure Android ROM in 5 minutes and it takes up less then 500 MB of space.
 

500 megs for 4.whateverthey'reon? Sounds low.

post #94 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Unless you actually want to listen to music and use your phone in any way the same manner as an iPhone!

 

500 megs for 4.whateverthey'reon? Sounds low.

Oh, I was talking about the free music the S4 comes with of course you can add your own. It also has a bunch of videos, delete those and some of the bloatware and you're down to about 3GB. The Nexus 4, 7 and 10 all have a OS footprint of about 700MB, you can strip that down further if you want.

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post #95 of 131
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
…the free music the S4 comes with… …It also has a bunch of videos…

 

How horrid.

post #96 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

How horrid.

Yea tell me about it, why they do it is beyond me, Nokia does the same thing with their Lumia series. At least with them they give you a 50$ gift certificate to their store for the trouble of deleting the crappy music.

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post #97 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

 

Just trying to understand how this works. So, where/how to you carry your multiple SD cards? Your pocket? Or, does the phone case you use have a pouch for something like that? When you use it, does it stick out?  How many such cards do you carry? Generally what capacity? How do you know what's in what -- i.e., do you keep them labelled? Is this common practice among Androiders, or do they just stick with whatever memory the phone has?

 

The Nexus doesn't use SD cards, strange that Google bases their reference design on this.

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post #98 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The Nexus doesn't use SD cards, strange that Google bases their reference design on this.

Don't mistake manufacturers that use Android with Google.
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post #99 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Just trying to understand how this works. So, where/how to you carry your multiple SD cards? Your pocket? Or, does the phone case you use have a pouch for something like that? When you use it, does it stick out?  How many such cards do you carry? Generally what capacity? How do you know what's in what -- i.e., do you keep them labelled? Is this common practice among Androiders, or do they just stick with whatever memory the phone has?

 

You misunderstand.  Nowadays with the huge sizes available, it's almost always a one-time storage upgrade.

 

People buy a single memory card of the highest storage amount that they want or can afford,  put the card in the device, and never remove it.  (Except perhaps when they upgrade to a newer device.)

 

So they might buy a phone, then put in an extra 64GB for ~$55 and the phone is "permanently" upgraded.

 

(I"m sure there are still some people who swap cards...probably for lots of videos... I used to back when card sizes were much smaller and I needed lots of videos to keep my two year old entertained on long trips, but that was years ago.   These days, like I said, it's not so necessary.)


Edited by KDarling - 5/4/13 at 7:39am
post #100 of 131
The people that are talking about $10 microSD cards, what speed? Going by Newegg's prices, it sounds like you're grabbing a class 4 card, which guarantees 4 MB/sec. Even a class 10 only guarantees 10MB/s, making it 80Mbps, one sixth of USB 2's signalling rate, so earlier discussion about SD cards to be a salvation compared to USB 3 is probably fooling themselves.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/4/13 at 8:48am
post #101 of 131
One thing I'm seeing a lot of are people taking BASE-10 value of the capacity and applying it to the BASE-2 disk space remaining value to get the used portion. This will result in an appearance of using more space than is actually being used.

You can use an online bit calc to reverse engineer the value quickly. For instance, 64GB is 64,000,000,000 bytes in BASE-10 but when I convert to BASE-2 — in the link it's represented by "kilo" is 1024 — the result is 59.6GB. Note that your NAND, just like with HDDs will not be exactly that much but be a little bit over the BASE-10 value.


I personally wish the tech world would adopt the IEC binary prefixes. It's really insane that we use the same notation or 1000 (10^3) and 1024 (2^10).



PS: Speaking of units of measurements that need to be changed, here is a very informative video.

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post #102 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Lightning is fully peer-to-peer which means that devices at both ends are equals in managing the flow of data. All USB links are master/slave, meaning that only one device has control of the flow of data while the other, the slave, sits there looking stupid most of the time. The advantage of USB 3 over earlier standards is additional channels that are made to look peer-to-peer, although they aren't.  Hence, even if the transfer speeds on paper are the same, the USB link is less efficient and (especially for large transfers of data) slower than Lightning. As a concept, USB is a dead end as all devices today have the power to manage peer-to-peer communications. 

I don't think Lightning is a data protocol in the way USB, Firewire or Thunderbolt is. I wonder if maybe you confused Lighting with Thunderbolt. It looks to me that Lightning is more a smart connector rather than a communication protocol.
post #103 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Some apps wont install to the SD card for now. But you can store your GBs of music....pictures home movies. You have to admit....everyone that is saying that Android is hindered by allowing a SD card slot or talking it down.....would PRAISE Apple if they had a micro SD card slot and you could add a 32 or 64 or 128 GB SD card to maximize you phone. Be honest you all know you would....If the IP6 came with with a micro SD card slot i think opinions here would change...... 

Speak for yourself. From what I can tell many, many folks here understand Apple's position on this. It is thoroughly consistent with their moves to remove optical media from their notebooks and iMacs. The vast majority of people who appreciate Apple's focus on simplicity, or merely benefit from it, are likely to agree. Also, it seems that 16GB is more than enough for most.

 

I've learned my lesson and know that I ned to go to the next highest storage tier in my next iPhone and MBA. I stopped using portable flash drives and SD cards years ago. They've failed, gotten lost, I've forget to bring them with me, etc. I have a paid Dropbox account now, but will get rid of that when I move to a higher capacity SSD in a new 2013 MBA and iPhone 5S. My bet is that few non-geeks wish to think about how and where their data is stored.

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post #104 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

You misunderstand.  Nowadays with the huge sizes available, it's almost always a one-time storage upgrade.

 

People buy a single memory card of the highest storage amount that they want or can afford,  put the card in the device, and never remove it.  

Ah, got it.

 

In the iPhone/iPad/iPod world, we just get the storage size we want, and leave it at that. With the expectation that, a couple of years down the road, when it's time to upgrade to the new model, the storage will double. Apple usually obliges that expectation (although, iPhones have been stuck at 64GB for a while now; hope that changes this Fall).

post #105 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's already extremely expensive despite sporting some clearly inferior components, like the display colour accuracy, yet they want you to go buy additional components. I guess that's not a big deal for many Android users as I've oft heard over the years that they like to have additional batteries for their devices instead of a single, long lasting battery.


The galaxy s series smartphones with the much hyped amoled display suffers from colour accuracy.  What does this translate to the camera experience?  I wonder all those reviewers have ever really taken a picture using the phone and viewed on the phone?

post #106 of 131
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The 16GB version of Samsung's newest flagship handset has only just over half of its listed memory available for owner use, according to CNet UK.

 

Same problem the Surface has.  

Samsung and Microsoft must be taking the same "Storage Hogging 101" programming class.

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post #107 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwal View Post

Apple can sell their upgrades for whatever they want.  But who is the sheep when you can buy a 16 GB sd card for $10.

 

You missed the whole point of the story. iOS is 2gig, Samsung OS is 8gig. iOS devices has much more storage left for you to use.

post #108 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I don't think you are correct. The old complaints about pentile and other issues with the S3 display seems to have been corrected. The S4 is as good and better than the iPhone 5's display on a number of these tests.

 

http://www.displaymate.com/Galaxy_S4_ShootOut_1.htm


These tests proved my point.  Samsung Galaxy S series smartphones have worse displays than Apple iPhones.  At full white screen S4 consumes twice as much power.  Therefore, Samsung have purposely turned down the brightness as often as possible.  Then its brightness is 313 cd/m2 compared to 555 cd/m2 for iPhone.  Finally the Color Gamut for S4 is 132% while iPhone is 104% close to perfect.  This is why most S4 screens are considerably darker than iPhones. 

post #109 of 131
Samsung to support to customer: We don't care what you think. Thank you for your call and be sure to buy another phone from us in two years. ;-)
post #110 of 131
"I's better to just get more internal storage."

No, is not!

Internal storage need space on the device.
Space is precious for hardware engineering!

And so: why put apps on internal storege?
Why bother with backup of apps? It`s on the cloud... like almost everything else. 1smile.gif
post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post


These tests proved my point.  Samsung Galaxy S series smartphones have worse displays than Apple iPhones.  At full white screen S4 consumes twice as much power.  Therefore, Samsung have purposely turned down the brightness as often as possible.  Then its brightness is 313 cd/m2 compared to 555 cd/m2 for iPhone.  Finally the Color Gamut for S4 is 132% while iPhone is 104% close to perfect.  This is why most S4 screens are considerably darker than iPhones. 

AnandTech's testing stated they expect most users to use auto-brightness. I don't know how it differs between Android and iOS but on my iPhone and iPad I keep the brightness turned up to the maximum at all times.

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post #112 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

One thing I'm seeing a lot of are people taking BASE-10 value of the capacity and applying it to the BASE-2 disk space remaining value to get the used portion. This will result in an appearance of using more space than is actually being used.

You can use an online bit calc to reverse engineer the value quickly. For instance, 64GB is 64,000,000,000 bytes in BASE-10 but when I convert to BASE-2 — in the link it's represented by "kilo" is 1024 — the result is 59.6GB. Note that your NAND, just like with HDDs will not be exactly that much but be a little bit over the BASE-10 value.


I personally wish the tech world would adopt the IEC binary prefixes. It's really insane that we use the same notation or 1000 (10^3) and 1024 (2^10).



PS: Speaking of units of measurements that need to be changed, here is a very informative video.

I blame hard drive manufacturers for this, as it made their drives sound larger for marketing purposes.
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post #113 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

I blame hard drive manufacturers for this, as it made their drives sound larger for marketing purposes.

Can we really, though? They are using the SI unit for kilo. It's whoever decided that they can use 2^10 the same as they use 10^3 that I think are first to blame.

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post #114 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Can we really, though? They are using the SI unit for kilo. It's whoever decided that they can use 2^10 the same as they use 10^3 that I think are first to blame.

Yep, when hard drive manufacturers started doing it, it wasn't really noticeable, however as capacities climbed into the Gigabytes and Terabytes the difference became more and more obvious.
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post #115 of 131

Relevant chart, simply for reference.

 

post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Yep, when hard drive manufacturers started doing it, it wasn't really noticeable, however as capacities climbed into the Gigabytes and Terabytes the difference became more and more obvious.

Right, I understand that the discrepancy was considerably more minimal, but my comment was regarding blaming the HDD vendors for using the SI unit for kilo which is the original use of kilo over blaming everyone else for using the SI unit to also mean 2^10 for kilo. It's like if we called the 36 inch a yard and then also called 39.370079 inches a yard. Wouldn't you not blame whomever decided to name their similar yet different measurement the same thing?
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/4/13 at 8:38pm

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post #117 of 131
i realize many users will not notice the need for more storage but the fact that they provided a slot for this reason instead of finding a more efficient way to store the OS and manage storage is further proof this device is flawed.
post #118 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post


Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul94544 View Post



Fact for Android users bragging about SD card slot



You cannot load apps into the SD card memory, so if you run out of space you have to delete apps to make room for your new ones, the SD card space can only be usedfor data, pics. movies etc.


Actually you can, I have been doing it for years.

http://www.bongizmo.com/blog/moving-all-android-apps-to-sdcard-apps2sd-froyo/

See revisions to Android 4.1(?) and above.


Edited by tribalogical - 5/5/13 at 2:57pm
post #119 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

I'm kind of surprised it's that big, but I guess compilers these days find ways to use more storage <grin>.   On the Nexus...

 

  • Simpler apps such as translators, Amazon, TV Guide, Trulia, etc are in the 1.5MB to 8MB range.  
  • Apps in the average range include Pinterest (10MB), USAToday (17MB), Weather Channel (18MB).
  • Larger ones include Angry Birds (48MB), Chrome (25MB), Skype (23MB).

 

An article last December noted that the average size of a non-game app on Android is 6MB, and on iOS it's 23MB.  (The latter probably partly retina screen graphics related.)  

 

People have done direct app comparisons before and the ratio is anywhere from two to six times larger on iOS, which some have guessed is partly due to static library includes and/or gfx.

 

The upshot is, lower storage for apps on the GS4 isn't a big deal.  It's much more important for media.

 

 

He was way off because that's RAM speed, and so is the other test you linked to.   Try a benchmark like Passmark which has disk (Flash) storage speed tests instead.   Speeds will range more like 10MB/sec up to perhaps 60MB/sec.

 

Geekbench doesn't test storage speeds.  It mostly tests registers, graphics and memory.  Since you brought it up, though, here's the latest popular list from their blog:

 

 

Yeah, nice redirect there. Why are we suddenly comparing processor performance?

 

How is your chart in context to the topic? You claim 10 ~ 60MB/sec for "disk speed" which is not clearly articulated anywhere that I could find. Source?

post #120 of 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Can we really, though? They are using the SI unit for kilo. It's whoever decided that they can use 2^10 the same as they use 10^3 that I think are first to blame.

 

 

You can probably chalk that one up to "the technical ignorance of the legislative branch"...

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