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Apple takes 57% of handset profits, Samsung accounts for remaining 43% - Page 2

post #41 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If you have evidence of a YoY drop in market share, profit share or profits then please post them but one claiming "Apple sucks" because of a drop from Autumn to Spring are just as foolish as those saying "Samsung sucks" because of a drop from Spring to Autumn after the next iPhone is factored in.


PS: Note that Canaccord Genuity states 72% for 4Q2012 and 69% for all of 2012. Do you know what that means? It means that there were quarters that were less than the 72% which is why the year is less than a single quarter.

Firstly I am tired of people putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "Apple sucks"

Secondly - Samsung release products all year round so Apples blip in its release quarter is the datum to ignore not Samsungs secular increase Q-Q

Thirdly - this decrease should have been foretold. Apple dropped both margins and market share in the last Q. Profit share is pretty much a multiplication of both.

Fourthly it's not just one quarter. Apples guidance is low for the next quarter with a drop of both margins and unit sales y-y. Meanwhile Android is gowing at 60% y-y and Samsungs percentage of that growth is profitable. Next Quarters market share is going to seem appalling.

We all want Apple to win. I'd prefer if the debate was on.

1) admitting Samsung is a major competitor. Agreeing with the stats.
2) arguing about what is to be done.


To me it's simple. Bigger screen ( no interest myself but other people do)
Lower priced phones. More than one model a year.

All we're getting is heads buried in the sand.
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post #42 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sure it has.

If I was a mod I would ban people who can't understand the difference between the world and the US. these are worldwide figures. You were all over the thread on Apples declining worldwide market share so you can't claim ignorance.

Ridiculous post.
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post #43 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil View Post

This I wonder, do Samsung list their manufacturing under this « Mobile communications » umbrella of theirs? If so, it would mean that the displays, silicon and memory they sell to their « clients » who are in fact « competitors » (like Apple, and the others) all go towards taking profit from the market indirectly.

 

I too find it weird that their smartphones would earn them 90 % of their megacorporation-wide profits, and the rest (appliances, computers, electronics and what not) add up to a very small part of their overall profits.

 

Easy enough to find out.  I Googled "samsung electronics", clicked through to the Investor Relations - Financials page, and looked at this PDF for 4Q 2012.

 

 

 

CE = Consumer Electronics and includes laptops, TVs and appliances.

IM  = IT and Mobile Communications (about 97% of revenue is cell phones)

DP = Display panels (LCD, AMOLED) parts

 

So the answer to your first question is that cell phones are separate from semiconductors. displays and appliances.  (But their profit is tallied alongside other IT profit.  The revenue is broken out for those, though.)

 

As to your second comment, it looks like about half (edit: 60%) of Samsung Electronics' profits come from cell phones, not 90%.


Edited by KDarling - 5/6/13 at 1:23pm
post #44 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Firstly I am tired of people putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "Apple sucks"

1) Where did I state you said Apple sucks?

2) Odd that you would pull that despite that very sentence I used the other end of example with "Samsung sucks." You'd think that plus the use of 'one' would be a clue.
Quote:
Secondly - Samsung release products all year round so Apples blip in its release quarter is the datum to ignore not Samsungs secular increase Q-Q

Right, hence my point.
Quote:
Thirdly - this decrease should have been foretold. Apple dropped both margins and market share in the last Q. Profit share is pretty much a multiplication of both.

As TS has shown Apple increase their market share last quarter. As for foretelling, you are again arguing my point as I am foretelling that Apple will increase their take during a release quarter as opposed to the back end of an annual cycle.
Quote:
Fourthly it's not just one quarter. Apples guidance is low for the next quarter with a drop of both margins and unit sales y-y. Meanwhile Android is gowing at 60% y-y and Samsungs percentage of that growth is profitable. Next Quarters market share is going to seem appalling.

10 So the next quarter, which is even father from the release of the iPhone 5 release and still not over a year from the last release has lower guidance? Shocking¡

2) Now you're willing to quoting YoY results when they favour Android — which makes no sense as it's not a handset nor the profits from a handset vendor — when before you're against looking at the iPhone's YoY results (which are stated here as 72% for 2012) simply because it make the iPhone look better than you want it to. Again, shocking¡
Quote:
We all want Apple to win.

It's really hard to see you wanting to look at the numbers objectively, and even harder to see how you want Apple to win.
Quote:
I'd prefer if the debate was on.

1) admitting Samsung is a major competitor. Agreeing with the stats.
2) arguing about what is to be done.

You want a debate where we all agree that Samsung is major competitor? 1confused.gif

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #45 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

If I was a mod I would ban people who can't understand the difference between the world and the US. these are worldwide figures. You were all over the thread on Apples declining worldwide market share so you can't claim ignorance.

Ridiculous post.

You didn't quality your comment to mean the worldwide market. You simply stated market share was going down. TS proved that the share of the US market was reported as up during the last quarter results thus proving your statement incorrect.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #46 of 74

How perfect.  Google gives Android away at no profit (except for profits from ads.)

Android hardware manufacturers sell handsets at no profit (except for Samsung.)

Beautiful symmetry there, no?

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post #47 of 74
In other words, Apple's phones are overpriced.
post #48 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

How perfect.  Google gives Android away at no profit (except for profits from ads.)

Android hardware manufacturers sell handsets at no profit (except for Samsung.)

Beautiful symmetry there, no?

 

Besides the ads, Google also makes money from licensing its own apps, and from its app store.

 

Handset makers such as Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, MicroMax, et al are making rising profits.

 

Hopefully HTC will rebound with their model One, as well.

post #49 of 74
As this latest report shows
http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/02/the-cost-of-selling-galaxies-updated/ and
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/04/apple-samsung-advertising-2/
Marketing costs are carried in the SG&A (selling, general administration expenses ) or generally know as overhead which is not broken out by division, while it is generally know that a disproportional amount is spend in the mobile division
post #50 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

In other words, Apple's phones are overpriced.

Yes, because we know how customers prefer to pay a lot more for the exact same user experience¡ It's a good think everyone but Apple is so altruistic with their product pricing¡

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #51 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

It is no niche and no fad. As more and more people are using their phones more like tablets and computers than phones you start to wish for a larger screen. I am as loyal an Apple person as you can find and in 25 years of purchasing computers have never bought anything other than an Apple computer.  I am no Warren Buffet but am in the top quintile. My next phone will likely be an S4 if Apple doesn't release an iPhone with a larger screen. I have an iPhone 5 now and with all I love about my iPhone I just can't get over the limitation and irritations I feel from this small 4" display. But I can say that I will be the first in line if Apple makes a larger version. It doesn't have to be 5" either, I would be happy with anything between 4.5" to as large as 5.3" with a strong preference for 4.8". 

 

Agree with you.

 

So far as I know, there are many customers that prefer large screen with 4.5 ~ 5.0.

 

Best User Experience comes from what many customers want too, not only from Best Quality.

 

Furthermore, Android phones serves FHD screen of very high

ppi.

 

I think, these Android phones would give better user experience

to customers than that of iPhone.

post #52 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

in 2012 Samsung eaks in at 20th position on world wide F500, and their primary money maker is TV sets, let alone chip making, and then phones.   It's not even the biggest business within it's own portfolio.

 

apple is 55th on the F500.

 

 

EDIT: Duh. I'm looking at the American data, you said world wide. Apologies.

 

 

Time to update your data.

 

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/index.html

 

Apple is now the 6th largest company in the world by revenues, 2nd largest by profit.

 

Guess phones are big business after all.


Edited by poke - 5/6/13 at 1:43pm
post #53 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by zvzax View Post

Furthermore, Android phones serves FHD screen of very high
ppi.

I think, these Android phones would give better user experience
to customers than that of iPhone.

1) Seems to me this devices over 4.5" with a high PPI that aren't PenTile are few and far between.

2) A high PPI is only one aspect of measuring a display's quality.

3) A good display is only aspect of a good UX.

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post #54 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Looking at the chart again made me realize that in Q1 2013 the iPhone 5 was still fairly new. You expect a drop the last two quarters before the next iPhone is released but not that soon after a release. I know it was released earlier than the 4S but still that first quarter was early enough in the product cycle that it should have had high demand as opposed to this and next quarter where people are already looking to the 5S or 6. In Q1 2013 the Samsung S3 was already far older than the iPhone 5. I think the Note II came out around the release of the iPhone 5 though. How did Samsung manage to do so well in Q1 this year and jump from 29% to 43% profit from the previous quarter while Apple dropped from 72% to 57% during those same two quarters? 

 

Apple has the spikiest sales of the smartphone makers.  In Q4 of 2012 the iPhone 5 was released.  One of the reports here on AI cited that 80% of buyers were already iPhone users.  That actually makes the data line up pretty nicely.  Both Samsungs success in going from 29% to 43% and Apples going from 72% to 57% have to do with that spike.

 

Apple is doing 'poorly' now- its more a case of them doing spectacularly last quarter with the new release.  Looking only at Samsung and Apple-

Apple sold 12k phones to Samsungs 5k.  (72% Apple, 29% Samsung)

Samsung only went from 5k to 6k phones from Q4 to Q1, which is good, but doesn't sound as impressive as "29% to 43%"

The main driver wasn't that Samsung did so well, it is that Apple went from 12k to 8k.  So now its '6k of 14k total instead of 5k vs 17k total.

 

Apple is doing great, you just can't expect them to sustain sales as if they were releasing a full new version of iPhone every quarter.

 

The 'dropoff' you mentioned is also very real and something Apple is far more prone to.  That hasn't even started yet.  In the few months before the i5 I think Android was pushing close to 80% of sales market share.   I think something similar will happen again before the 5s.  Who is going to go out and buy an iPhone 5 a month before the 5s comes out.  Android doesn't see that as much and sales are a lot flatter because there's some new model of something out every quarter- be it the One, Google Nexus, S4, Note etc.

post #55 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Me too.

 

 

Per device.  Or they could sell 2x as many to equal the same total profit.

 

More like 4 - 5x as many.

 

Samsung's marketshare is based on low to mid range phones and like Nokia before them, always has been.

 

People seem to share this fantasy that everyone else is just like them, on American websites high end is wrongly believed to be the norm.


Edited by hill60 - 5/6/13 at 2:26pm
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post #56 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt View Post

Fear of cannibalisation of high end iPhone profits, is sometimes cited as a reason for Apple not producing an iPhone at a lower price point, but Samsung does seem to sell plenty of high end phones despite having lower cost options.

 

Do they?

 

Seeing as how Apple easily outsells their Galaxy S lines.

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post #57 of 74
Although Apple is doing well and leading the pack, perhaps they should pay some attention to the number two spot.

If Apple cares about its stock price, it would be better for them to make sure that no single company is too strong of a player.
post #58 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Wait a minute... isn't Apple doomed and analysts are dumping its stock?

 

 

Hers's a site you might want to read about Stock Analysts. Some VERY interesting information people should know.

 

http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/analysts.htm

post #59 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I'm surprised at just how much Samsung is profiting which means Samsung's higher-end handsets are popular, regardless of how you feel about the company.

 

Indeed.  The smartphone market can change pretty quickly.  I'm finding that notes/charts that I made to help myself even six months ago are out of date now.  A lot of assumptions (like Samsung sells mostly cheap phones) just don't cut it any more.

 

This past quarter Samsung's handset division made approximately $29 billion in revenue.  Estimates say they sold 115 million phones, of which 45 million were dumbphones, and 70 million were smartphones. 

 

Knowing some industry averages, we can start to determine where their phone revenue came from.

 

  • $3 billion comes from the 45 million dumb phones (industry average is $60 apiece)
  • $26 billion comes from 70 million smartphones = $370 avg (industry average two years ago was $330)

 

Their average wholesale price is higher than some people think.


Edited by KDarling - 5/6/13 at 4:32pm
post #60 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's estimated 57 percent of handset industry profits was down from 72 percent in the December quarter, as Apple saw its operating margins fall from 40 percent to 35 percent. Those shifts were attributed to softer iPhone 5 sales and stronger demand for the legacy iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S models.

Samsung, meanwhile, saw its "value share" grow from 29 percent of the industry's profits to an estimated 43 percent in the March quarter. Samsung's margins also increased slightly, from 20 percent to 22 percent.

These figures look a little off.

Apple's last quarter, they reported net profit of $9.5b. Apple's second fiscal quarter is the first calendar quarter:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2013/04/23Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html

Samsung's net profit last quarter was $6.4b:

http://bgr.com/2013/04/26/samsung-q1-2013-earnings-record-profit-466983/

Samsung splits out phone profits in their earnings:

http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsung/ir/ireventpresentations/earningsrelease/downloads/2012/20130426_conference_eng.pdf

Operating income from mobile is 60% of their total. If you take that from their operating profit of $7.9b, you get $4.7b, not $6b.

The iPhone ratio is roughly the same 2/3:

http://www.businessinsider.com/iphone-profit-2012-8

so if you take the same 60% of their net profit + projected operating expenses in the above report, you get 0.6 x (9.5 + 3.85) = $8.01b

That would put the ratio at 37% / 63%. Samsung's operating margin from their report is 6.51/32.82 = 19.8% so where does 22% come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling 
A lot of assumptions (like Samsung sells mostly cheap phones) just don't cut it any more.

Not entirely. Samsung apparently sold 106.6 million phones (69.4m smartphones):

http://bgr.com/2013/04/26/cell-phone-market-share-q1-2013-467162/

Apple sold 37.4 million smartphones - that's all they sell. Despite this, Samsung made significantly less profit than Apple.

In fact, if you divide out 60% of their respective revenues:

Apple: iPhone revenue $26b/37.4m handsets = $695
Samsung: $28.56b/106.6m handsets = $268

I'd assume that Apple's average handset price would be lower but that would mean the portion of their revenue from the iPhone is higher. So whatever way you look at it, Apple is significantly more profitable than Samsung or Samsung sells mostly cheaper phones.
post #61 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Seeing as how Apple easily outsells their Galaxy S lines.

 

Times are changing.  Yes, all iPhones together still outsell the entire Galaxy line, but not by as much these days.  

 

 

 

Plus there's the other 40 odd million non-Galaxy smartphones that Samsung sells each quarter now.

post #62 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Apple: iPhone revenue $26b/37.4m handsets = $695
Samsung: $28.56b/106.6m handsets = $268

 

Your Samsung average is across all handsets.  In my post, I separated out the dumbphones to get a better idea of what their smartphones averaged, which worked out to be $370.  

 

Quote:
I'd assume that Apple's average handset price would be lower but that would mean the portion of their revenue from the iPhone is higher. So whatever way you look at it, Apple is significantly more profitable than Samsung or Samsung sells mostly cheaper phones.

 

Oh, for sure Apple sells their phones at a significantly higher average price.  Sprint has said they pay an average of 40% more for iPhones than for their other smartphones.

 

Ironically, that's what worries the analysts so much.  They see the higher prices as eventually capping Apple's sales or causing carrier subsidy pushback.   For comparison, here's a chart of average price ranges vs Apple's prices:

 


Edited by KDarling - 5/6/13 at 5:27pm
post #63 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Your Samsung average is across all handsets.  In my post, I separated out the dumbphones to get a better idea of what their smartphones averaged, which worked out to be $370.

Where does the revenue breakdown ($3b/26b) between smart/dumb phones come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Oh, for sure Apple sells their phones at a significantly higher average price.  Sprint has said they pay an average of 40% more for iPhones than for their other smartphones.

Ironically, that's what worries the analysts so much.  They see the higher prices as eventually capping Apple's sales or causing carrier subsidy pushback.

Except the average price is well above what Apple's cheapest iPhone is. People are choosing to spend more on the latest model. With Samsung, people are spending far less than the flagship models so people obviously don't think it's worth it i.e Android phones sell because they are cheap, not because they are better:

http://gizmodo.com/5977625/android-is-popular-because-its-cheap-not-because-its-good

Samsung is clearly increasing profitability so gradually they are shifting more flagship models and the competition is affecting Apple somewhat. Apple's profitability will fall and Samsung's will rise. It's clear it's a two-horse race. The question is what happens to everyone else and the Android eco-system? If it's not profitable for anyone other than Samsung to make an Android phone (and it's not), what moves will they make to stand out? Samsung already wants to have its own OS:

http://www.osnews.com/story/26865/Samsung_s_future_is_Tizen_not_Android

Where does that leave Google? The profitability and marketshare of the entire smartphone market sits with two eco-systems disconnected from them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling 
Yes, all iPhones together still outsell the entire Galaxy line, but not by as much these days.

Is this including the Galaxy Prevail/Ace etc?
post #64 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

Easy enough to find out.  I Googled "samsung electronics", clicked through to the Investor Relations - Financials page, and looked at this PDF for 4Q 2012.

 

 

 

CE = Consumer Electronics and includes laptops, TVs and appliances.

IM  = IT and Mobile Communications (about 97% of revenue is cell phones)

DP = Display panels (LCD, AMOLED) parts

 

So the answer to your first question is that cell phones are separate from semiconductors. displays and appliances.  (But their profit is tallied alongside other IT profit.  The revenue is broken out for those, though.)

 

As to your second comment, it looks like about half (edit: 60%) of Samsung Electronics' profits come from cell phones, not 90%.

 

Cheers mate, much appreciated!

post #65 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Is this including the Galaxy Prevail/Ace etc?

I specifically referred to the Galaxy S line, you've got to watch these slippery buggers who interchangeably drop the 'S'.
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post #66 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Where does the revenue breakdown ($3b/26b) between smart/dumb phones come from?

 

As I wrote, "$3 billion comes from the 45 million dumb phones (industry average is $60 apiece)".   That's actually probably a little on the high side, as the $60 is from 2011 and the cost / price have probably come down a bit.

 

Quote:

Is this including the Galaxy Prevail/Ace etc?

 

From matching up with other sources, it doesn't seem to.  However, it does appear to include the Galaxy Note.  In other words, it's for the high end large screen phones (Galaxy S and Note) which are what most people compare iPhone sales with.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juil View Post

Cheers mate, much appreciated!

 

Cheers, glad to help!


Edited by KDarling - 5/6/13 at 9:17pm
post #67 of 74

Does it have a touch screen and let me browse the web? Does it let me make phone calls, read my email, run apps? Does it have instant messaging, play music, take photos? Yes! Yes Yes! Well, one phone costs $250, the other costs $650.

 

Look at what Apple charges you for additional storage. An off-contract 16GB iPhone 5 is $650. A 64GB iPhone 5 is $850!!! I guess some people like getting taken to the cleaners.

You can pop a 64GB SD card in your Android phone for $60. Plus you don't need  expensive "lightening" connectors, you can just use USB cables. Everything is cheaper on the Android side of the fence.

 

People are price conscious, especially overseas, and especially on pre-paid plans. Unless Apple releases a low cost iPhone they will probably see their global smartphone market-share drop into the single digits by year's end. Which may be fine with them. 

 

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/29/apple-iphone-share-sacconaghi/

post #68 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

... I guess some people like getting taken to the cleaners...

... Everything is cheaper on the Android side of the fence...

 

People are price conscious, especially overseas, and especially on pre-paid plans. Unless Apple releases a low cost iPhone they will probably see their global smartphone market-share drop into the single digits by year's end. Which may be fine with them. 

 

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/29/apple-iphone-share-sacconaghi/

 

I respect your points, but please don’t refer to people who are in a position of financial ease/freedom who chose a device according to the personal preference as "people that like getting taken to the cleaners".

 

I would say that "some" people are price conscious. But not "people" as you say. Because, not everybody exclusively buy their clothing from the cheapest sources possible, not everybody drives the cheapest brands of cars, etc.

 

And to me a $200-350 price difference in a product that you use for 2 years on a phone plan of $50-75 a month, amounts to an $8-15 difference in your monthly budget. Hardly so big a deal if you have have a bit of breathing room in your budget...

post #69 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

As I wrote, "$3 billion comes from the 45 million dumb phones (industry average is $60 apiece)".   That's actually probably a little on the high side, as the $60 is from 2011 and the cost / price have probably come down a bit.

Ok so you are assuming Samsung's average dumb phone price is around $60, multiplying by volume and deducting that off the total revenue to get the smartphone revenue and then dividing that by the smartphone volume gives the average selling price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

From matching up with other sources, it doesn't seem to.  However, it does appear to include the Galaxy Note.  In other words, it's for the high end large screen phones (Galaxy S and Note) which are what most people compare iPhone sales with.

This means that 38m out of the 70m were the flagship phones (S, S2, S3, Note) and 32m were the rubbish kind (Prevail, Ace etc).

You said that they shipped 115 phones of which 38m are the flagship ones and you said "A lot of assumptions (like Samsung sells mostly cheap phones) just don't cut it any more". Don't those figures mean that Samsung does in fact mostly sell cheap phones? They have to even with the smartphones if their average selling price is half of Apple's but their volumes are getting closer.
post #70 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This means that 38m out of the 70m were the flagship phones (S, S2, S3, Note) and 32m were the rubbish kind (Prevail, Ace etc).

 

Yep, although I think the flagship phones were estimated as only around 24 million last quarter.  So using the smartphone cut of $26B revenue, it could break down as something like this (feel free to use other numbers):

 

  • $13 billion from 24 million Galaxy @ $550 avg wholesale
  • $13 billion from 46 million non-Galaxy smartphones = $280 avg wholesale for those
 
If we decided that half of those 46 million sold were super low end smarpthones wholesaled for only $150 (= $3.5B), then the other half would jump to an average $420 apiece! 
 
Quote:
You said that they shipped 115 phones of which 38m are the flagship ones and you said "A lot of assumptions (like Samsung sells mostly cheap phones) just don't cut it any more". Don't those figures mean that Samsung does in fact mostly sell cheap phones?

 

Of course it's not all just flagship and cheap phones.  There are whole ranges of phones, from very high end, going through high, then various mid ranges, and finally down to lower ranges.

 

Also, "less than iPhone price" does not equal "cheap".  Apple is getting very high prices for hardware that others sell for hundreds less.  Good for Apple, of course, but it doesn't make the other phones junk simply because they cost less to buy.  A $300 phone is a pretty good device in most of the world.

post #71 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Yep, although I think the flagship phones were estimated as only around 24 million last quarter.  So using the smartphone cut of $26B revenue, it could break down as something like this (feel free to use other numbers):
  • $13 billion from 24 million Galaxy @ $550 avg wholesale
  • $13 billion from 46 million non-Galaxy smartphones = $280 avg wholesale for those
 
If we decided that half of those 46 million sold were super low end smarpthones wholesaled for only $150 (= $3.5B), then the other half would jump to an average $420 apiece! 
 

Of course it's not all just flagship and cheap phones.  There are whole ranges of phones, from very high end, going through high, then various mid ranges, and finally down to lower ranges.


Also, "less than iPhone price" does not equal "cheap".  Apple is getting very high prices for hardware that others sell for hundreds less.  Good for Apple, of course, but it doesn't make the other phones junk simply because they cost less to buy.  A $300 phone is a pretty good device in most of the world.

What hardware?

Apple designs most of their own hardware, more bespoke than off the shelf.

Other phone makers don't have access to hardware Apple uses.
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post #72 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What hardware?

Apple designs most of their own hardware, more bespoke than off the shelf.

Other phone makers don't have access to hardware Apple uses.

Seeing as how Samsung makes some of those parts I would have to disagree.
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post #73 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Seeing as how Samsung makes some of those parts I would have to disagree.

Put "most" and "some" together, doesn't that mean agreement?

I.e. the "some" that is extraneous to the "most".
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post #74 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Put "most" and "some" together, doesn't that mean agreement?

I.e. the "some" that is extraneous to the "most".

Apple designing and Samsung making are 2 different things. It means Samsung as a phone maker has 'access' to hardware Apple uses.
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