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Adobe goes subscription-only, rebrands Creative Suite as Creative Cloud - Page 5

post #161 of 180
This is a perfect example for mabushi!

Marketing Bullshit!
post #162 of 180
The future of software is service.

It's wild to see people prefer the old model of installing software that is immediately outdated. i'd rather incentivize my services providers to provide constant updates and handle some of the computational power on their side (computers are getting smaller these days, folks).

Change sucks. But sure beats living in the past.

Now lets just hope the tools keep getting better as promised.
post #163 of 180

future of software is service...

post #164 of 180

With their blatantly greedy scheme of paid subscriptions, perhaps Adobe will soon find itself in a cloud that is quickly evaporating.  Looking forward to clear skies ahead and a declining market cap for ADBE.  Yeah, Adobe I got your paid subscription, right here.

post #165 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastacort View Post

The future of software is service.

It's wild to see people prefer the old model of installing software that is immediately outdated. i'd rather incentivize my services providers to provide constant updates...

But against what competition? Before, the only direct competition Adobe had for some products was previous versions of their software. Now, with pretty much a guaranteed cash flow and eventually there won't be any viable previous versions, I don't see the long term benefit to regular users.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/8/13 at 8:39am
post #166 of 180

Really, the future of software is "service?"  Really?!  I'll take the bird in the hand rather than two in the cloud err I mean, bush.  And as far as downloading the updates, I can live with that.  Piece of cake.

post #167 of 180

I bet you Quark can't believe their luck right now...

 

Talk about about being handed a second chance - with a frickin' bow on top!

OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #168 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't understand why people have a problem with the subscription model. It's used for a lot of things these days. Do people complain about mobile phone or internet subscriptions as in, if I stop paying $50/m I'll get cut off and then how do I contact people to get jobs, I'll be unable to work?

 

I see two reasons: 1) Software I install on my computer is a product, and a network I connect my computer or phone to is a service. A subscription makes sense for a service. Adobe is trying to turn its products into services by adding features like file storage, but I don't need those features. 2) Any company that suddenly changes its prices or terms is going to anger people. My mobile phone plans have worked roughly the same way since they started (with costs increasing -optionally- as benefits like data and texting increased). If the cost doubled tomorrow without a corresponding benefit, then yes I'd complain about that.

post #169 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by jabohn View Post

Master pages

Preflight

Print Separations

Spot Colors

Table of Contents

Export to a press-ready PDF with bleed and crop marks

Support for Photoshop files including layer options

Support for Illustrator files

 

...just a few.

 

I'm sure it's mstone that 'thumbs upped' your post… he's gone off the deep end pushing back against this 'uprising' the rest of us are feeling.

 

To be candid, it seems to me like your response was to simply list a bunch of InDesign 'unique features'…  it didn't really speak to the results, only the software-specific methods.

 

I don't know which version of CS and Pages you use, but my versions certainly are compatible with photoshop/illustrator files… I drop PSD and AI files into Pages all the time. That said...

 

I agree I haven't tried to create a print-ready, multi-page client brochure layout using Pages rather than InDesign, but then, part of this dialogue is about how 90% of people might use the software. If Adobe is only catering to 10% of their market with this subscription model, then c'est la vie. The rest will find another way. I'd be surprised though if Adobe can survive only on that core 10%...

post #170 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

I'm sure it's mstone that 'thumbs upped' your post… he's gone off the deep end pushing back against this 'uprising' the rest of us are feeling.

 

FYI... just click on the Thumbs Up count and it tells you who all did it.

 

(It was not mstone in this case, btw.)

 

Carry on.

post #171 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

FYI... just click on the Thumbs Up count and it tells you who all did it.

 

(It was not mstone in this case, btw.)

 

Carry on.

 

'Twas me.

 

People who don't do actual pre-PRESS don't know what's involved, and thus don't appreciate the requirements of software appropriate for the task. That's fine, until they start making claims of more basic apps being "equivalent" or "good enough" etc. "Good enough" is relative to the task. Pages certainly is "good enough" for the kind of layout most people would do on their own for digital output. For something that's going to hit an actual printing press, I'm glad we have tools like InDesign.

post #172 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

I don't know which version of CS and Pages you use, but my versions certainly are compatible with photoshop/illustrator files… I drop PSD and AI files into Pages all the time. That said...

 

Before I go on, lemme state for the record that I understand that the point of your post was the relative requirements of 90% vs. 10% and that what I'm about to write addresses only a specific area not even necessarily related to that point. That said:

 

Even something as simple as what you describe above occurs on a different plane with InDesign compared to Pages. Pages doesn't even allow linking, only embedding, so updated the image does NOT update the document. Nor does Pages allow access to individual image layers. It will not perform color-space conversion to match the image to the document. So even something as seemingly simple as dropping in an image has consequences for the document that InDesign accommodates and Pages does not. Avoiding unexpected results actually requires MORE user expertise and awareness with Pages than with InDesign.

 

Also, the features mstone listed related to the kind of thing I'm describing above, not just InDesign-specific ways of doing things Pages does differently. They're things Pages doesn't do at all. Can Pages even print separations?

post #173 of 180

one of the stated reason for the switch is that not enough upgrades are being bought-- I think now it will be less-- unless we have a significant benefit and feature upgrade i'm staying put

post #174 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

I'm sure it's mstone that 'thumbs upped' your post… he's gone off the deep end pushing back against this 'uprising' the rest of us are feeling.

 

To be candid, it seems to me like your response was to simply list a bunch of InDesign 'unique features'…  it didn't really speak to the results, only the software-specific methods.

 

I don't know which version of CS and Pages you use, but my versions certainly are compatible with photoshop/illustrator files… I drop PSD and AI files into Pages all the time. That said...

 

I agree I haven't tried to create a print-ready, multi-page client brochure layout using Pages rather than InDesign, but then, part of this dialogue is about how 90% of people might use the software. If Adobe is only catering to 10% of their market with this subscription model, then c'est la vie. The rest will find another way. I'd be surprised though if Adobe can survive only on that core 10%...

Someone asked for stuff that InDesign does that Pages doesn't. I typed in a few off the top of my head that are ones I use all the time. Sorry it got your undies in a twist.

 

I use CS5.5 at work, I own CS5 at home and I'm testing the trial for CS6.

 

That's great that you're able to drop PSD and AI files into Pages. Let me know when you're also able to turn PSD or AI layers on and off in Pages, or double-click on one of those files to open it in the original app in order to make an edit.

post #175 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

FYI... just click on the Thumbs Up count and it tells you who all did it.

 

(It was not mstone in this case, btw.)

 

Carry on.

 

thank you for that! I learned something new. It acts as an excellent "boneheaded assumption prevention tool" too :)

post #176 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I wouldn't mind if Adobe went all-digital download for software distribution, but subscription-based software burns me up. It's bound to lead to price increases as they try to squeeze more out of customers.

I agree. I love the Apple model ... same software a fraction of the price, updates via software update and if I lose my Mac free re download of the latest version in seconds... no hunting for a disk or serial numbers. But this? I am already looking at alternatives and suspect many a software company is thinking about developing something. We have open office why not open creative suite? Better still Come on Apple you either bring one out of buy Adobe. We've come a long way since Mac Paint showed Adobe the way but it's about to be over I suspect.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #177 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by nastacort View Post

The future of software is service.

It's wild to see people prefer the old model of installing software that is immediately outdated. i'd rather incentivize my services providers to provide constant updates and handle some of the computational power on their side (computers are getting smaller these days, folks).

Change sucks. But sure beats living in the past.

Now lets just hope the tools keep getting better as promised.

Apple's App Store model is for me the new paradigm ... I don't want an old model either but I do want the ability to download and run anytime anywhere with or without a cloud if I wish. If I lose my Mac I can re download the latest version in seconds without hunting for old disks and serial numbers (often several serial numbers if I've had updates). Not to mention when Apple moved to their new model they dropped the prices dramatically to reflect the lower cost of distribution. Adobe not so much ....
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
post #178 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree. I love the Apple model ... same software a fraction of the price, updates via software update and if I lose my Mac free re download of the latest version in seconds... no hunting for a disk or serial numbers. But this? I am already looking at alternatives and suspect many a software company is thinking about developing something. We have open office why not open creative suite? Better still Come on Apple you either bring one out of buy Adobe. We've come a long way since Mac Paint showed Adobe the way but it's about to be over I suspect.

There are open source media programs, but I think what's holding them back is the people good at creative arts aren't necessarily the people that are inclined to write software. Gimp exists, Inkscape exists, and there are several open source audio and video editors. I depend on an object manager a lot and the Inkscape folks seem dead set against providing one that doesn't look like an open electrical cabinet, if you can call that an object manager.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/13/13 at 4:17pm
post #179 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Apple's App Store model is for me the new paradigm

What software on the App Store has the complexity of the Adobe apps? The App Store model is to sell you poor quality software at a low price and that increases the volume. Adobe's addressable market is small - 30 million or so. They can't sell the apps at $0.99 or even $19.99 as a one-off and sustain their global business of 11,000+ employees with $4b profit per year.

Apple can do it because they make their money from hardware and take 30% from everyone else's software so they can sell software cheaper. Adobe makes almost everything from software and services so that's why they have to protect that revenue stream.

People assume that companies can easily adopt the business models of other businesses e.g Adobe should sell software like Apple, Apple should sell phones and tablets like Google. They have different business models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I do want the ability to download and run anytime anywhere with or without a cloud if I wish.

If I lose my Mac I can re download the latest version in seconds without hunting for old disks and serial numbers (often several serial numbers if I've had updates).

So you want cloud features but you don't want to pay for them? Even if you don't want to keep paying for them, you expect them to be there when you need them, like an insurance policy. Cloud services run 24/7; for that to work, people have to pay for them 24/7. They can be optional and they are - if you don't want them, buy CS 6.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Not to mention when Apple moved to their new model they dropped the prices dramatically to reflect the lower cost of distribution. Adobe not so much ....

It is cheaper for some people, just not everyone. A subscriber base of about 5 million will match their current revenue. If they become accessible to more people and scale up to 10 million, they'd have the freedom to lower the prices. If they manage to sustain 20 million subscribers, they can get away with $25/month and even less for individual apps. They can't do it just now in case they underestimate their costs.
post #180 of 180
The subscription model is just another huge industrial robbery of the single consumer. Adobe can easily make a killing here by making one level of Adobe users happy at the expense of those who cannot or will not pay these outrageously high costs. Creative Cloud might prosper. But I will not be paying the ransom.

My Photoshop CS5 Extended cost me - I can't remember - less than $800 back in 2009 and I've used it for 44 months now. I can probably use it for at least another 36 months before some sort of Mac OS change makes it obsolete just like the end of Rosetta killed my last Photoshop version running on my old PowerMac G4 before my two MacBook Pros and Cinema display. That's 80 months or ten bucks a month. Or a lot less if I continue to use my old CS5 for a longer period of time. Typically I was able to go several years on one version of Photoshop or Illustrator. And now there's no way in hell I will ever edit video on Adobe.

I've been using Adobe products for at least 22 years. I loved all the features and engineering that went into such great tools. I especially enjoyed so much editing of my raw photo images.

Cloudware has its limited advantages and power. But I can use software anywhere, anytime, including on a laptop on a tropical island without an Internet connection. Adobe needs to suffer a boycott revolt here. We need to move onward and patronize companies that still want to give us software, not be our highway robbing landlord with a mandatory umbilical cord.

- - - - - - -

Tell Apple you love the new MacPad Pro. Oh wait a minute, that was just a silly dream of mine many many years ago.
Edited by MacPadPro - 5/14/13 at 12:41pm
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