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Adobe goes subscription-only, rebrands Creative Suite as Creative Cloud - Page 2

post #41 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

 

Yes, because casual home users, hobbyists, and self-employed freelancers just love forking out $1500 - $2000 for software all at one time.

I'm a casual freelancer and have been upgrading every other year so I'd only pay about $600 to upgrade my copy of CS5 to CS6. I do it when I get some extra work in above my normal load. If instead I went with the subscription, I would pay 959.76 for the first 2 years and 1199.76 for the 2 years after that (discount of 29.99 for first year, 49.99 after that).

 

I don't need to point out which one is more cost effective.

post #42 of 180
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post
With extensive control over menus?

 

I wouldn't see why not. What, really, could be supported on Adobe's software that isn't in Apple's?

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post #43 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


The software is downloaded and installed on your computer just like it always has. It only checks in once a month to see if your subscription is up-to-date.

The Cloud storage and other services are optional.

It's a very confusing name... but the software is still installed and runs locally from your computer.

 

So, when you decide you no longer want to pay the monthly fee... Your applications disappear and you're only left with the files you created, right?

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post #44 of 180

I was going to get Dreamweaver, cause I don't other Adobe stuff… Oops - Apple just DISCONTINUED it!!!

 

Adobe® Dreamweaver® CS5.5 Product No Longer Available http://j.mp/ZLHf4l 

 

And it's not available on Adobe's Site either:

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html 

 

I did my site in DW8 and I occasionally tweak it. I don't need any other stuff from Adobe. But now they want me to pay $600 EVERY YEAR?! INSANE!!! I'm VERY ANGRY about this! 

 

My option would be either to re-do my site in iWeb, which has been discontinued, or find some other applications! Wordpress comes to mind. But I wonder if it will do the Templates like DW does, where one can Edit a Template, and All Pages based on that Template will be Updated Automatically? 

 

What else is out there to replace my DW? 

 

Has anyone here tried http://www.squarespace.com or any such services? 

 

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post #45 of 180
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

What else is out there to replace my DW? 

 

Coda. You'll never go back.

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post #46 of 180

Another issue that this solves for Adobe (and to a certain degree the end users) is that they don't have to upgrade all of their software on the same schedule. With the previous business model, customers were paying for a few applications with major updates and the rest with minor bug fixes. This was especially apparent in the CS 5 to CS 5.5 upgrade. With the subscription model you can upgrade as soon as a new version of each application becomes available or is needed.

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post #47 of 180

Adobe? Is anybody still using their intrusive bloatware?

post #48 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

So, when you decide you no longer want to pay the monthly fee... Your applications disappear and you're only left with the files you created, right?

Yep.

That's the nature of a software subscription.
post #49 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Yep.

That's the nature of a software subscription.

 

Yes, evidently.

 

Having said that, I cannot fathom upgrading beyond CS6 under any circumstances. I eagerly await Apple's response, if any.

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post #50 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

I did my site in DW8 and I occasionally tweak it. I don't need any other stuff from Adobe. But now they want me to pay $600 EVERY YEAR?! INSANE!!! I'm VERY ANGRY about this! 

My option would be either to re-do my site in iWeb, which has been discontinued, or find some other applications! Wordpress comes to mind. But I wonder if it will do the Templates like DW does, where one can Edit a Template, and All Pages based on that Template will be Updated Automatically? 

What else is out there to replace my DW? 

Has anyone here tried http://www.squarespace.com or any such services? 

To be clear... that $600 a year is for the entire Adobe software suite... every professional-level program Adobe makes.

I think you can still pay for a subscription to an individual program like Dreamweaver... but it's still likely more than you'd want to spend.
post #51 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

With the subscription model you can upgrade as soon as a new version of each application becomes available or is needed.

 

This is just an assumption. Suppose they demand a higher monthly fee for an upgraded version? Suppose there are many more tiers of pricing they roll out once enough subscribers have been added? No. I don't like it. I hate subscription payments.

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post #52 of 180
This is what I never liked from the Internet, ie, when it gives more control to companies and less power to users. It all began with apps that install without letting you have a backup of the complete installer. And of course, what Adobe wants to do now is the golden dream of every software company: make the used depend on being always connected to you.

This was worrying a decade ago, when all serious software was commercial. However, nowadays there're serious (very professional) free alternatives in almost every software category, so if any company tries to live this golden dream of the Internet, they'll fail.
post #53 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


To be clear... that $600 a year is for the entire Adobe software suite... every professional-level program Adobe makes.

I think you can still pay for a subscription to an individual program like Dreamweaver... but it's still likely more than you'd want to spend.

 

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/buying-guide.html

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post #54 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Yes, evidently.

Having said that, I cannot fathom upgrading beyond CS6 under any circumstances. I eagerly await Apple's response, if any.

Judging by Apple's recent history in pro-level apps... do you really expect them to have a response?

Apple is still, by far, a hardware-focused vendor.

If anyone will challenge Photoshop and other professional Adobe apps... I don't think it will be Apple.
post #55 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

What else is out there to replace my DW? 

You can subscribe to Dreamweaver CC version for $19.99 a month

 

or buy Coda is $99 $75 up front.

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post #56 of 180

For Apple products, I stick to an every third generation upgrade policy. For Adobe, it seems to be closer to every second generation. This is due to the Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. marketing that sells the user they need to upgrade every iteration. Not so, in my mind.

 

With the cloud based model, you will pay for every upgrade, even if the reviews verify that there are not enough compelling features to do so. Many of the professionals I follow, were using PS 5, even though PS 6 had been available for some time. To those claiming piracy, low usage, etc. as the reason for the complaining, your arguments don't hold water, for me anyway, and makes it seem like you have some financial relationship with Adobe. Maybe not, but that is the feeling I get....

post #57 of 180

I disagree that non-professionals should migrate away from Photoshop.  Why?  A talented non-professional (aka: artist) could kick the ass of a hack professional any day. Why should they have limited tools?  Part of what I used to like about Adobe was that their software offered a very generous palette of tools and possibilities at a relatively affordable price point.  That was many years ago and over the last several we've seen the updates prices sky-rocket unfairly and now this... It's a little depressing.  

post #58 of 180
As a professional web developer I have already replaced much of my Adobe software, but this is the icing on the cake, I will not pay a subscription fee for my software indefinitely. I will look for a Fireworks replacement and never look back.
post #59 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincentagniello View Post

I disagree that non-professionals should migrate away from Photoshop.  Why?  A talented non-professional (aka: artist) could kick the ass of a hack professional any day. Why should they have limited tools?  Part of what I used to like about Adobe was that their software offered a very generous palette of tools and possibilities at a relatively affordable price point.  That was many years ago and over the last several we've seen the updates prices sky-rocket unfairly and now this... It's a little depressing.  

 

Just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking Adobe needs to go this route or their business options are very limited in the future.

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post #60 of 180

How so?

post #61 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

With the subscription model you can upgrade as soon as a new version of each application becomes available or is needed.

 

This is just an assumption. Suppose they demand a higher monthly fee for an upgraded version? Suppose there are many more tiers of pricing they roll out once enough subscribers have been added? No. I don't like it. I hate subscription payments.

No, it is part of the annual contract. You get the new apps as soon as they come out with no additional charge during your annual renewal plan. I don't know, perhaps they will cancel the whole thing if they get a huge number of user complaints, but I doubt they would be so aggressive with this new model if they weren't totally convinced of advantages and the acceptance from their core customers. It is interesting to note that they left Acrobat out of this subscription only program which I suspect is indicative of the primary customer being corporate users who are not set up to have digital subscriptions for every seat especially with the IT lock downs. They also left out Lightroom as I suppose professional photographers are often out on location and may not be able to revalidate their credentials. Although those two applications come with CC it looks like you can still buy to own them.

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post #62 of 180
This move sucks for pirates but isn't such as a bad deal for professionals who pay for the software. Creative Suite is an industry-leading software package and is priced appropriately.

There's many ideological reasons why people hate renting software. However, if you check of the EULA of any software package, you'll realise that you don't own your existing software either.
post #63 of 180
Quote:

Thanks!

It looks like you can pay $20 a month for a single program.

Then again... for $50 a month you get EVERY program Adobe makes. It all depends on how much of Adobe's software you use (and make money with)

I use quite a few Adobe programs for my business: Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Premiere Pro and Encore, and I will eventually learn After Effects. I use Audition and Acrobat occasionally too. Oh and Illustrator once in a while.

So for me it's not a big deal. $50 a month is a drop in the bucket compared to what I make using those software tools. And I can save my money for hardware expenses.

But I totally understand the aversion to software subscriptions. It's clearly not for everybody.

Let's see what alternatives are spawned from other software makers.
post #64 of 180
But why then would I bring my/any laptop on a road trip? I mean, what's the bloody point? I'd much rather sit on the village green and edit video and images under a cloudless sky than sit in a WINDOWLESS EDIT BOOTH.

Pixelmator is pretty good - they need about 6 months and a couple more coders to be at the Pshop level (being optimistic) and FCP X is almost ready *sigh*
post #65 of 180
Wonder what this means for higher-ed institutions.
post #66 of 180
CS5 still fulfills all my needs, and is paid for.

And far cheaper alternatives are nipping at their heels.

Adobe 2013 = Microsoft 1990s.

Buh-bye...
post #67 of 180

I hate the new icons. I was so happy when they bailed on the artsy icons in favor of the periodic table style. Now they are back to a crazy impressionism style which only makes it more difficult to quickly recognize the icon. I like the CS 6 version based on large font and color coding.

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post #68 of 180
This is ridiculous!!! It's bad enough they hose you for these barely incremental performance updates they refer to as upgrades but now they want to collect money from us every month. No thanks I'll stick with CS6.
post #69 of 180
CNET should do a poll on who will continue to use Adobe subscription based products. Let's send a message instead of just bitching in the comments section.
post #70 of 180

Here are my Adobe purchases over the years (just the CS Suites... I have tons of others):

 

Looks like that last one there, CS6 Master Suite, will be the last Adobe purchase I make.

Sad too. They were on the cusp of running Avid out of town and winning the race in the video field since Apple screwed the intro to FCPX...

I guess not all that sad really.

post #71 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Here's the conversation that will happen with my boss.

Me: Adobe moved to an entirely subscription based service.
Boss: What does that mean?
Me: You have to pay $50 a month to use their software.
Boss: Guess you better start researching alternative software.

You listening Apple?

More likely,
Boss: no problem, we'll just take $50 a month off your salary. Geez is that what we're paying you?? We'll take $100 off. Wow, this new software is saving us $50 a month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 
Why not wait a year or two until Adobe's a month from bankruptcy due to this travesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich 
Sounds like they might be desperate. Anyone savvy as to their current financials?

Don't you remember this article?:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/20/creative-suite-subscriptions-pay-off-as-adobe-raises-profit-forecast

"Adobe says its Creative Cloud subscriber tally now exceeds 500,000 paid individual members, with more than two million free and trial memberships.

Off the success of Creative Cloud, Adobe raised its full-year adjusted earnings forecast to $1.45 per share, up from $1.40 per share. Analysts had predicted about $1.41 per share. Adobe now forecasts full-year revenue of about $4.1 billion."

It seems to be getting positive reviews too:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud/reviews.html

As always, you have to weigh up these decisions from the company's point of view. A subscription model future-proofs their revenue stream because they don't have to convince people to buy upgrades by holding back lots of small features and then market those features. The CS Suite isn't really a features package any more. Adobe is also well aware of how many people don't pay for their software.

People have subscriptions for loads of things: cable, internet, mobile phone, insurance, rent, servers/hosting and few of those have any hope of helping them earn money.

I do think $50/month is high for individuals and I'd rather it was $20-30/month for single users and higher for businesses as businesses can claim tax but they can do this once they get the users on board. Raising prices later is hard, lowering them is easy.

Having a sustained revenue stream also gives them the opportunity to do things like buy Maxon and bundle their software in with the Cloud package:

http://landingpage.maxon.net/?lang=en

I expect Autodesk will consider doing this sort of license model too. Contrary to what people are saying here, this model actually makes it easier for individuals to legally use high-end software packages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich 
So, when you decide you no longer want to pay the monthly fee... Your applications disappear and you're only left with the files you created, right?

What would be quite good is if they just put the apps into a read-only mode that allowed you to open documents and export.
post #72 of 180
There's no way in hell I am paying a subscription. No way in hell.

Pixelmator (etc) your time has come..
post #73 of 180
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Don't you remember this article?:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/03/20/creative-suite-subscriptions-pay-off-as-adobe-raises-profit-forecast

"Adobe says its Creative Cloud subscriber tally now exceeds 500,000 paid individual members, with more than two million free and trial memberships.

Off the success of Creative Cloud, Adobe raised its full-year adjusted earnings forecast to $1.45 per share, up from $1.40 per share. Analysts had predicted about $1.41 per share. Adobe now forecasts full-year revenue of about $4.1 billion."

 

Thing is, are those projections taking into account the fact that they aren't selling software at all anymore? Did they cut out their revenue stream from software actually being sold?

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post #74 of 180

I'm trying to not have a knee-jerk reaction to Adobe's announcement, but it's hard.

 

Since Adobe last changed their strategy and started the suite-centric approach, I've had to buy bundled apps that I don't use in order to get the ones I needed. This didn't bother me much, since the total cost of the suite was lower then buying piece meal.  That said, I tend to be fairly slow to upgrade, and generally upgrade every other version or so.

 

Based on a quick calculation, I think Adobe's latest move will effectively double my cost of using their products. I am also not excited about the subscription model in general.  On the upside, I will now access to even more software that I don't need.

post #75 of 180

BYE BYE ADOBE!

 

I will hang on to CS6 until Apple or someone else comes up with a replacement to fill the gap. I don't see most people spending what Adobe wants. Anyone holding Adobe stock should panic right now.

post #76 of 180

Not sure how to feel about this.

 

On one hand I am tired of having to spend a small fortune on software every other version.

 

But on the other hand I don't know if I want a software distro dictating to me what what I use and when.

 

Having just finally upgrading to CS6 I am now set for a while now and have time to decide what I will do.

 

That being said I have already spent 20 to 30 minutes looking at alternatives to CS or rather CC now.

 

What does that say for Adobe... I have a product suite that will hold me for at least 2 years yet I am already looking for alternatives.

 

I think most major software vendors will move to this model at least high end / professional software i.e AutoCad, Solid Works, Adobe and dare I say APPLE.

 

I can see Apple taking a wait and see move for their path forward as they are now without Mr. Jobs to set a path forward.

 

It will take some time for me to get comfortable with this new paradigm shift from the software vendors, not un-like when everything went to online activation.

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post #77 of 180
O
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is a good point. Another interesting scenario is that an agency might get a huge job and need to scale up quickly but just for a couple months until the project is complete. They could opt for the month to month plan and then cancel once they don't need all those licenses. Good way to budget your money. With the non-subscription plan they would go broke before they ever got the first check from the client.
Yes, because there is a huge pool of idle creative talent sitting out there that uses Adobe products every day, but doesn't own the software themselves, just waiting for such a situation.
If you do a quick ramp of professionals for a contract job, you can bet they will bring their own tools. Are you implying that same agency would also buy workstations for all of the contractors, and somehow not go broke at the same time?
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post #78 of 180
That's the end of me using any new versions of anything by Adobe.

As the posts above: No. Just, NO.

i do NOT do subscription ANYTHING.

i can afford to buy a license of something now and then, not subscribe. This further eliminates low income people and will further ENCOURAGE piracy.

Adobe has finally become fully evil. What an end of a great set of products (which had been sliding into bloated Microsoft-ish territory for several major releases already).
post #79 of 180
One of the things about "creatives" in general, especially those providing freelance photo/design services, is that they often need to manage cash flow creatively.

With a subscription-based model like this, if things got tight for even one month, and you couldn't maintain the subscription, you'd lose the ability to earn!

Nope%u2026 I would never, EVER depend on a subscription model if it could potentially impact my ability to earn like that%u2026

I upgraded my CS package, and that lasted for almost three years before I jumped to the next upgrade%u2026 all at once, with no lingering costs or uncertainty. I bought it, and can use it indefinitely.

A subscription model means I must outlay constantly, and if I can't (due to economic downturns like the current one, or whatever), even briefly, I lose the ability to earn?

Never%u2026 really, just never...
post #80 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

 

Why do you think you'll be locked in after two years from now? Go back to CS 6 or choose an alternative if they raise the price to $100. If you don't feel it's worth it, then stop using it then.

 

 

Photoshop by itself is $240/year.

 

 

Then your boss is an idiot. For one, it becomes an operating expense rather than a capital expense, and should be favourable come tax time. That's why companies lease equipment rather than buying it. And two, counting upgrades, assuming you use more than two of their apps, you probably paid more than $50/month on average if you upgraded every time to keep current. If you use one or two adobe apps, then rent those individually for $20/month each.

 

You just snarked at and disparaged three different people here. If you are "on Adobe's side", you sure aren't winning any converts by trying to invalidate our perspectives or make us out to be "idiots".

 

Here's why I think I'd be locked in after two years: It's SUBSCRIPTION ONLY.

 

I'd have to pay a monthly or annual fee to continue use of the software that I depend on for income. If, for any reason (like a severe economic downturn) I temporarily couldn't afford to continue ongoing SUBSCRIPTION payments, using the current licensing model I can STILL WORK… using the Subscription model means I CAN'T continue earning.

 

Your suggestion "Go back to CS 6 or choose an alternative if they raise the price to $100…"? How is that different from what I said? "I'll keep CS 6 as long as I can, and by then hope for a reasonable replacement."

 

If I don't feel it's "worth it" stop using it? What a ridiculous assertion. Besides, that COMPLETELY isn't the point. I wouldn't be using Creative Suite to begin with if I "didn't think it was worth it". I depend on it for part of my income.

 

It isn't worth it if it means I'm dependent on their subscription-based model to earn… that's the equivalent of "indentured ownership", and I won't participate in it. 

 

So yeah, "choose an alternative"… I'll be researching that in earnest...

 
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