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post #121 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

It's ironic that you're obviously articulate in English, but waste way too much time complaining about your circumstances.

 

Spend more time figuring out how to make more money with your language skills as well as CC tools.

 

Adobe's tools--especially the new CC ones--will help you very much with that.

 

Aha. Touché. I get where you're coming from, and I get that a lot here in Portugal, even from my own parents on a daily basis up until recently… So, allow me to put that in context. We have always been a country of emigrants, partly on account of our adventurous spirit (you may have heard of Magellan, for instance) but mostly to *run* for our lives, as our politicians have been exceedingly crappy for the most part of our +800-year history (with some notable but rare exceptions, of course; that alone explains the aforementioned naval discovery period).

 

Not a long time ago, portuguese people (both qualified and unqualified alike) fled in the '60s-'70s from an incompetent and totalitarian fascist regime and the vicious, unjust colonial war it waged towards people who only wanted independence, that dragged on and on, mowing the youth (not unlike the Vietnam war). Back then, we used to be the butt of all jokes; french people would say portuguese women had moustaches, for instance (that's plain ridiculous, I can attest otherwise :P ), and we had this very unique way of mangling foreign languages.

 

Fast-forward to the '10s of this century: young people are now highly skilled, a majority even has a college degree, and many understand, speak and write english fluently (some still do mangle the accents, but not so much as before; we are waaaay over-exposed to anglo-saxonic media these days anyway). Naturally, it's very easy for any of us to call it quits and GTFO while we still can (being able to pay a one-way plane ticket should suffice, but still, having a security net is a must, as some countries, even in the EU, may not be very welcoming), and a HUGE amount of people are doing just that.

 

My personal take on that is: we have one of the best climates in the world (no, seriously, it's just not as good as in the days of yore, because of global warming, but it's still pretty darned cozy), and I happen to have been born and brought up in what I consider, bar none, the single most beautiful city in the world, Lisbon. And I'm not just some random guy desperately trying to sell my city to others (I do love interacting with tourists, but that's besides the point, it's me I'm talking about), that's actually an informed assessment: my whole family is from the scenically beautiful (but architecturally and socially hideous) Algarve, I've travelled all around my own country (it is, according to the CIA Factbook, a bit smaller than Indiana, but I'd risk to say it's more culturally diverse and, at 10M people, also has a bigger population density), I lived in Andalucía, Spain for a few months under the Erasmus program (I'm also fluent in spanish, as you might guess) and I've visited a lot of cities: London (twice), Paris, Amsterdam (twice), Brussels (twice), New York… much more than the average fellow countryman, and WAY much more than most people from the US.

 

So, as you can see, the factors that would allow me to leave the country in a cinch are also the very same that *prevent* me from doing exactly that! I could adapt in no time (especially maybe to London or The Hague/Amsterdam, which are the cities I know best, and add to that the fact that four friends of mine recently went to London and my older brother has been living in A'dam for nine years already!), but I'd feel a constant and lingering homesickness (again, having lived in Spain for but a few months taught me just that). We have a word for that, it's called “saudade”, and we may even feel it at home. It's like “missing some place / someone (including oneself) / something + feeling blue” to the power of ten.

 

There are also political, ideological and practical considerations at stake, which are probably of even bigger significance to me; while we do live in a democracy now, which still pleasantly surprises me to this day with such great Civil Rights strides as the approval in Parliament, just yesterday (the International Day against Homophobia; talk about surgical timing ;) ), of co-adoption by gay couples, it is in fact young (it just turned 39 last April) and feeble as a great deal of people, *INCLUDING MANY POLITICIANS*, have never developed a wholesome democratic mindset. I personally *refuse* to leave the country and, in turn, also my trade, at the hands of unscrupulous, noncritical, media-brainwashed people. This country is already in bad enough shape all with having to deal with the IMF/ECB/EC Troika and our corrupt politicians, but it will certainly be much worse off if it's devoid of competent, qualified and politicized people by the aftermath of this “rescue” program. I mean, someone will have to clean up after their mess and rebuild the country almost from scratch, am I right? And I'm putting my money *and soul* where my mouth is.

 

So, in a sense, even though it may seem otherwise, for someone so adept at speaking languages and knowing new places and cultures, staying put in *this country* in particular is, in fact, way more adventurous than emigrating… It's excruciating (but not stoic; criminalization of dissent and critique WAS the main premise of portuguese fascist doctrine!), it's a damn challenge. I managed to land a decent job (albeit temporary), and you have the gall to say I'm not putting my skills to good use? Sure, instead of emigrating I could try to do language-related freelance jobs here at home (and believe me, that actually crossed my mind at some point), but guess what? Translators, interpreters, teachers, etc. are also starving! Should I try to encroach upon their turf instead of focusing on my core competence, then? Let me be the judge of my own life choices, thanks. If you want to do that, too, at least get your facts straight before entering this debate.

 

Also, if you think I'm wasting my time, well… I'm using idle time in-between client replies for this, and believe me, I have a lot of spare time as I only have ONE client right now. Should I be idly playing games or posting pictures of kittens on Facebook, instead of being here discussing relevant issues to my trade with colleagues? You know (or, better yet, knew) nothing about my life, so, please refrain from judging the way how I manage my own time, too.

 

Oh, and by the way and to conclude my rant, you people from the US should look in a mirror some time. For the good *and* for the bad, you are considered, at least in Europe, the most self-entitled people on the planet. The good part is, you demand a lot from your representatives and, in turn, preserve some of your rights and even gain some new ones (though I'd add that you sometimes focus on small issues, as in nitpicking, instead of focusing on grander issues, as in the big picture; still, some of your textbook class-action lawsuits are, indeed, impressive). The bad part? You sometimes come across as smug and ethnocentric. You know, there's a whole different world outside of your own, with different laws and customs… Global companies should, more than any other entity, adapt to those, and that's what some of you people *still* aren't getting. But that's OK, we foreign Adobe customers should be more than enough to at least scare them, and the EC also has a history of punishing american software companies for their wrongdoings, so, I'm not overly pessimistic. ;)


Edited by Mainyehc - 5/18/13 at 8:57am
post #122 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I don't think that's the agenda. The pricing model makes it more accessible to many hobbyists and non-pros on fixed incomes. It's unlikely that a hobbyist would drop $1-2k on a software suite in a single payment.

It should help with the scenario you describe of having to save files in legacy formats for people who don't upgrade. I'd say the purpose of the pricing model is more to create a one-size fits all rather than create a class divide, which is rarely beneficial and I don't think this will create a divide. There will always be people who don't fit comfortably into a one-size model and businesses make decisions about whether or not to make adjustments for them.

Changes are always going to be met with resistance and immediate changes more so than gradual. It will run its course and people will let Adobe know how they feel. I don't think the complaints will be ignored by them as I don't think it's their goal to alienate customers so they'll listen to constructive feedback about their plans. What's not constructive is to say they're just being greedy and try to get the government to stop them because it's not going to work and it just creates unnecessary tension.

Adobe's business model needs to be sustainable for the long term and it needs to be accessible to all creatives. I think the model they are going with is the best model so far to achieve this. It may cause complications for people with uneven income but it's not a unique complication, just an additional one.

 

I guess that my statement was based on the comments I have been seeing elsewhere about how this will cost more overt time and the occasional user who needs access every now and then must pay monthly (which is bullshit anyway, since you can pay month-to-month and cancel after a project if that works for you) will be stuck paying thousands over time for something used intermittently.

 

Personally, I find the new model great for pros & hobbyists alike.

 

I just seems to hear from hobbyists who are pissed.

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post #123 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainyehc View Post

 

Aha. Touché. I get where you're coming from, and I get that a lot here in Portugal, even from my own parents on a daily basis up until recently… So, allow me to put that in context. We have always been a country of emigrants, partly on account of our adventurous spirit (you may have heard of Magellan, for instance) but mostly to *run* for our lives, as our politicians have been exceedingly crappy for the most part of our +800-year history (with some notable but rare exceptions, of course; that alone explains the aforementioned naval discovery period).

 

Not a long time ago, portuguese people (both qualified and unqualified alike) fled in the '60s-'70s from an incompetent and totalitarian fascist regime and the vicious, unjust colonial war it waged towards people who only wanted independence, that dragged on and on, mowing the youth (not unlike the Vietnam war). Back then, we used to be the butt of all jokes; french people would say portuguese women had moustaches, for instance (that's plain ridiculous, I can attest otherwise :P ), and we had this very unique way of mangling foreign languages.

 

Fast-forward to the '10s of this century: young people are now highly skilled, a majority even has a college degree, and many understand, speak and write english fluently (some still do mangle the accents, but not so much as before; we are waaaay over-exposed to anglo-saxonic media these days anyway). Naturally, it's very easy for any of us to call it quits and GTFO while we still can (being able to pay a one-way plane ticket should suffice, but still, having a security net is a must, as some countries, even in the EU, may not be very welcoming), and a HUGE amount of people are doing just that.

 

My personal take on that is: we have one of the best climates in the world (no, seriously, it's just not as good as in the days of yore, because of global warming, but it's still pretty darned cozy), and I happen to have been born and brought up in what I consider, bar none, the single most beautiful city in the world, Lisbon. And I'm not just some random guy desperately trying to sell my city to others (I do love interacting with tourists, but that's besides the point, it's me I'm talking about), that's actually an informed assessment: my whole family is from the scenically beautiful (but architecturally and socially hideous) Algarve, I've travelled all around my own country (it is, according to the CIA Factbook, a bit smaller than Indiana, but I'd risk to say it's more culturally diverse and, at 10M people, also has a bigger population density), I lived in Andalucía, Spain for a few months under the Erasmus program (I'm also fluent in spanish, as you might guess) and I've visited a lot of cities: London (twice), Paris, Amsterdam (twice), Brussels (twice), New York… much more than the average fellow countryman, and WAY much more than most people from the US.

 

So, as you can see, the factors that would allow me to leave the country in a cinch are also the very same that *prevent* me from doing exactly that! I could adapt in no time (especially maybe to London or The Hague/Amsterdam, which are the cities I know best, and add to that the fact that four friends of mine recently went to London and my older brother has been living in A'dam for nine years already!), but I'd feel a constant and lingering homesickness (again, having lived in Spain for but a few months taught me just that). We have a word for that, it's called “saudade”, and we may even feel it at home. It's like “missing some place/someone/something + feeling blue” to the power of ten.

 

There are also political, ideological and practical considerations at stake, which are probably of even bigger significance to me; while we do live in a democracy now, which still pleasantly surprises me to this day with such great Civil Rights strides as the approval in Parliament, just yesterday, of co-adoption by gay couples on the International Day against Homophobia (talk about surgical timing ;) ), it is in fact young (it just turned 39 last April) and feeble as a great deal of people, *INCLUDING MANY POLITICIANS*, have never developed a wholesome democratic mindset. I personally *refuse* to leave the country and, in turn, also my trade, at the hands of unscrupulous, noncritical, media-brainwashed people. This country is already in bad enough shape all with having to deal with the IMF/ECB/EC Troika and our corrupt politicians, but it'd certainly be much worse off if it was devoid of competent, qualified and politicized people by the aftermath of this “rescue” program. I mean, someone will have to clean up after their mess and rebuild it, am I right? And I'm putting my money *and soul* where my mouth is.

 

So, in a sense, for someone so adept at speaking languages and knowing new places and cultures, staying put is, in fact, way more adventurous… It's excruciating, it's stoic, it's a damn challenge. I managed to land a decent job (albeit temporary), and you have the gall to say I'm not putting my skills to good use? Let me be the judge of my own life choices, thanks. If you want to do that, too, at least get your facts straight before entering this debate.

 

Oh, and by the way and to conclude my rant, you people from the US should look in a mirror some time. For the good *and* for the bad, you are considered, at least in Europe, the most self-entitled people on the planet. The good part is, you demand a lot from your representatives and, in turn, preserve some of your rights and even gain some new ones (though I'd add that you sometimes focus on small issues, as in nitpicking, instead of focusing on grander issues, as in the big picture; still, some of your textbook class-action lawsuits are, indeed, impressive); the bad part? You sometimes come across as smug and ethnocentric. You know, there's a whole different world outside of your own, with different laws and customs… Global companies should, more than any other entity, adapt to those, and that's what some of you people *still* aren't getting. But that's OK, we foreign Adobe customers should be more than enough to at least scare them, and the EC also has a history of punishing american software companies for their wrongdoings, so, I'm not overly pessimistic. ;)

 

In the time it took to write this I could have billed out enough to pay for a month of CC.

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post #124 of 126
Quote:

You know, if this new model cleans out the hobbyists & non-pros who I find to be thorns in my side, I'm all for it.

 

Sorry if that sounds elitist, but I am a pro user of Adobe software and I'd be happy if it were restricted to other, fully-commited pros.

 

Photoshop isn't a civil right.

 

What irritates me are "designers" who use an image editor for design work, instead of an illustration package.

When I hear designers using Photoshop as their main tool, I write them off. Designers should use Illustrator, Quark, InDesign, and then maybe place the one or other image resource that may have been edited in Photoshop in the design. For a designer, Photoshop should be an auxiliary tool.

 

Someone who considers an inherently badly scalable bitmap based result design/print worthy, well...

...and it gets worse with all the web sites that use bitmap images for text that aren't searchable, lack alt tags and are totally not handicap accessible...

...only to be outdone by people who wrote entire sites in Flash.

 

Sorry if that sounds elititist, but I'd be happy if Photoshop were restricted to people who know about Photography, and why using bit-map based tools on anything other than things that are by their very nature bitmap based is a horrid idea.

 

Photoshop is likely the most widely abused graphics tool.

post #125 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

What irritates me are "designers" who use an image editor for design work, instead of an illustration package.
When I hear designers using Photoshop as their main tool, I write them off. Designers should use Illustrator, Quark, InDesign, and then maybe place the one or other image resource that may have been edited in Photoshop in the design. For a designer, Photoshop should be an auxiliary tool.

Someone who considers an inherently badly scalable bitmap based result design/print worthy, well...
...and it gets worse with all the web sites that use bitmap images for text that aren't searchable, lack alt tags and are totally not handicap accessible...
...only to be outdone by people who wrote entire sites in Flash.

Sorry if that sounds elititist, but I'd be happy if Photoshop were restricted to people who know about Photography, and why using bit-map based tools on anything other than things that are by their very nature bitmap based is a horrid idea.

Photoshop is likely the most widely abused graphics tool.

...and that is why production artists and front end developers exist.

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post #126 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

 

What irritates me are "designers" who use an image editor for design work, instead of an illustration package.

When I hear designers using Photoshop as their main tool, I write them off. Designers should use Illustrator, Quark, InDesign, and then maybe place the one or other image resource that may have been edited in Photoshop in the design. For a designer, Photoshop should be an auxiliary tool.

 

Someone who considers an inherently badly scalable bitmap based result design/print worthy, well...

...and it gets worse with all the web sites that use bitmap images for text that aren't searchable, lack alt tags and are totally not handicap accessible...

...only to be outdone by people who wrote entire sites in Flash.

 

Sorry if that sounds elititist, but I'd be happy if Photoshop were restricted to people who know about Photography, and why using bit-map based tools on anything other than things that are by their very nature bitmap based is a horrid idea.

 

Photoshop is likely the most widely abused graphics tool.

 

To expand on my snarky comment yesterday—A designer's job is to come up with a compelling concept that communicates and meets the client's objectives. Everything else is secondary and can be handled by a supporting team member if necessary. I happen to be a designer who has good mechanical artwork chops on print work. I can turn in a properly assembled keyline at the end of a project. However, I've worked with some truly great designers (way better than me on the concept & communications aspect) who cannot assemble keylines to save themselves, but their ideas sell. That is where the production artist comes in.

 

Now a designer who is deluding himself into thinking he has production chops that he does not possess gets no sympathy from me either. Its important to know your limitations. I know mine, that is why I hire development help when I design websites.


Edited by polymnia - 5/19/13 at 9:37am

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