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Adobe customers' opinions split as company shifts to subscription platform

post #1 of 85
Thread Starter 
Adobe's decision to move to a subscription-based model with Creative Cloud is causing ripples in the creative community that has come to know and depend on its products, with some calling for a return to the "old ways" of actually owning the software you pay for.

CC


The move to Creative Cloud will see Adobe abandoning its longtime moneymaking brand, Creative Suite. Instead of selling perpetual licenses on Creative Suite and updating that software package once every 18-or-so months, Adobe is now pushing a subscription package, one in which customers can pay $20 per month for a specific app or $50 per month for access to the whole Creative Suite package.

For Adobe, the shift will relieve the pressure from the aforementioned 18 month update cycle. The company already has some half a million subscribers to Creative Cloud, and it expects to have roughly four million by the end of 2015, all receiving software and feature updates as they become available.

Users of Adobe's current Creative Suite products, though, appear split on the issue.

"The new cloud pricing is horrible for users like me," wrote one user on Adobe's Photoshop discussion board. "Because I use it only a few times/month, I don't need the latest and greatest, so I only update once every three years or so."

Other "casual" users of the software have concurred, saying that the monthly charge for access is unattractive, given how often they actually use the software.

"I had hoped [Creative Cloud] pricing would be equivalent or even less than a [Creative Suite] purchase," wrote one user. "Unfortunately that is not the case."

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Others, though, point out that Adobe's shift to a subscription basis may work out well for graphics and creative professionals, who make up a large portion of its user base.

"Adobe is definitely positioning the platform as a professional solution," wrote one commenter on AppleInsider's forums. "It is very similar to other high end professional offerings such as AutoDesk."

Whether or not the move to Creative Cloud is advisable for an organization depends really on its needs. Organizations or professionals that regularly updated their Creative Suite packages could find that Cloud is the way to go.

A one-time purchase of CS6 Design Standard would cost $1,300, giving the buyer a perpetual license. Assuming the customer kept that product for three years before updating, the package would cost roughly $430 per year.

A three-year subscription to Creative Cloud, on the other hand, at a rate of $50 per month, would amount to $1,800, or $600 per year. That $600, though, would come with guaranteed updates to the latest version of all CC apps, 20GB of cloud storage for file sharing and collaboration, and additional features Adobe has built into its suite.

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For current Creative Suite owners, Adobe has made the first year of Creative Cloud access cheaper in order to sway customers into becoming subscribers. The first year of Creative Cloud access will cost $20 a month, or $240 in total.

On an individual app basis, the math changes. A single license of Photoshop CS6, for example, costs $700. Assuming three years' use, the program works out to roughly $230 per year. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, or $240 per year, for a total of $720. Like the full CC package, though, that subscription comes with a continually updated application, with the newest features added to the program as they are completed, as well as 20GB of cloud storage and most of the services Adobe offers in its CC package.

The Creative Cloud path is also thought to be a means of combating piracy for Adobe, as its Creative Suite products are regularly prominently featured on piracy sites, sometimes with professionally-produced works being traced back to such pirated software. By requiring that the software check with Adobe to ensure a subscription fee has been paid, the company puts another obstacle in front of software pirates, though the effectiveness of such a measure is yet to be determined. Current versions of Creative Suite contact Adobe's servers to ensure a user is entering a valid license number, but piracy rates for CS6 are still quite high.

Adobe will continue to offer CS6 indefinitely, according to its site. The software will also be updated to fix bugs and to ensure interoperability with the latest versions of Mac OS X and Windows. It will not, though, see any new features added in the future, meaning that users choosing not to jump on the subscription wagon will have to be satisfied with the capabilities they currently have.

AppleInsider reached out to Adobe for comment and will update this article when the company responds.
post #2 of 85
It is the something for nothing Google loving crowd that has brought this to bare. Since people are stealing their products by copying and with the recent events where Google and others are copying IP and the courts seem to think you can't protect software, they are locking you in by a subscription model that requires a commitment to their software and their continued development.
post #3 of 85
Split? Between what? Those who think it sucks and those who want to move to something else?
post #4 of 85
"It is the something for nothing Google loving crowd that has brought this to bare. Since people are stealing their products by copying and with the recent events where Google and others are copying IP and the courts seem to think you can't protect software, they are locking you in by a subscription model that requires a commitment to their software and their continued development.
"

hu WHAT ???

There is NOTHING to do with Google, or whatever crazy generation of "google loving" you fantasized. ("google" is the new Fox-news to insult people ? )

The courts seems pretty convinced you can protect software, HUGE fees all around the industry in US, Europe and Japan to whatever companies copying illegally source code or using stuff patented by others.

Of cours not all patents are legal patents, sometimes, the courts discover the patent was bogus.


The subscription model will change Nothing for piracy.

First, it's not the first software to do that. Mostly all professional engineering software are available on subscription model. It never prevented the piracy.

why ? because the pirates simply remove the check inside the software or package a false subscription server to be used locally.

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No, Adobe is targeting its legally-user customers, by trying to lure them in a yearly reliable source of income.

It will do wonders to the financial health of Adobe.

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it's not about piracy.
post #5 of 85
Subscriptions are an IT departments nightmare. I think we're going to see customers hold on to CS6 as long as it remains useful (sometimes that means 5-7 years) and in the meantime find alternative solutions.

My company also uses software called SpeedQuote. The software comes with a dongle that's locked to the software in the box. But I guess that would have cost Adobe too much money.

The bottom line is that in an effort to cut costs, make more profit and stop piracy, Adobe has taken a page from Microsoft's book while screwing over loyal customers.

How soon we forget the stunt Quark pulled.
post #6 of 85

No Sh**. Really?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genovelle View Post

It is the something for nothing Google loving crowd that has brought this to bare. Since people are stealing their products by copying and with the recent events where Google and others are copying IP and the courts seem to think you can't protect software, they are locking you in by a subscription model that requires a commitment to their software and their continued development.
post #7 of 85

I'm philosophically opposed to renting software. We've been discussing the great advantages of Creative Cloud for the past year. And there are some - but not enough to overcome my opposition to renting software. Theft aside, because really are we to be punished for some P2P site that gives it away? I thought that Adobe had a way to peak at your serial number every once in awhile to make sure you're legal?

 

Regardless, it's was just under $600 to upgrade from CS5/CS5.5 to CS6. We upgrade once every two years - our costs are doubled.

 

At home, I rarely use anything but PS so I'm still working on CS4 (regardless, I work at work and CS4 is fine... although I'll upgrade to CS6 now).

 

This is a move that will (continue) to boost profits at Adobe (up last year substantially -- because of Creative Cloud, I assume).

post #8 of 85
"A single license of Photoshop CS6, for example, costs $700. Assuming three years' use, the program works out to roughly $230 per year. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, or $360 per year, for a total of $1,080."

Just want to correct your math there. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, which is $240 per year, or $720 for 3 years. Not much more than buying outright. plus if you had upgraded in that time, it would have cost you more.

For users who purchase the Master Suite - Creative cloud is WAY cheaper.

You can see they are aiming it at the professionals who would make up a bulk amount of their business. It also means people who could only afford 1 program before now can have access to everything for only $50 per month, allowing them to learn other programs, get new skills and further push Adobe as the industry standard.

The student pricing is dirt cheap, allowing students access to everything for only $20 per month. This was unheard of only a couple of years ago, and I think will help on the piracy side of things.

For small business, the subscription model is great for affordability, and can be written off on tax time (in Australia anyway) - again probably reducing piracy. Plus it gives these smaller businesses access to more software than they may have been able to afford in the past.

Another benefit is that Adobe can now concentrate solely on improving software. No more costs for packaging and distributing hard copies. No more trying to bundle updates into a new release. Now they can really push forward and give us new features faster - this is especially important for those in the web industry.

As someone who as used Adobe software professionally for over 8 years, I honestly think this change will benefit a lot of people.
post #9 of 85
Adobe continues its longstanding tradition of fu**ing customers up the a**!! When has Adobe EVER participated in fair pricing??? They have always screwed over their customers royally. And now they intend to continue that tradition forever by taking their customer-screwing to the greatest level possible!! They waited until they completely killed off all competitors, and then they sprung this on everyone. Adobe... worst tech company on the planet... then Tim Cook goes ahead and hires one of the monsters from Adobe. Good lord. Where is Steve when we really need him??
post #10 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

How soon we forget the stunt Quark pulled.

What stunt was that?

 

That they didn't update their software for OS X for a couple years, they threatened a hostile takeover of Adobe, that they tried to turn their layout program into a multimedia authoring application and charge a bunch of money to their users only to drop the title after one release, or was it their refusal to support layered photoshop files for years and years, the user login required being connected to the Internet every time you launched the application, or was it the nightmarish printing dialog boxes, no drop shadows until version 7, or the complete lack of customer support?

 

Perhaps there was another stunt I missed?

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post #11 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"A single license of Photoshop CS6, for example, costs $700. Assuming three years' use, the program works out to roughly $230 per year. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, or $360 per year, for a total of $1,080."

I'm not a math whiz but even I know $20 x 12 months is only $240 per year.

 

Edit sorry Tristand, I thought you originally posted since you didn't use the quote feature.

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post #12 of 85

Nobody is "royally fu**ing customers up the a**"

 

If you don't want their software, don't buy it? Adobe, or the world for that matter, doesn't owe you anything.

post #13 of 85

Completely agree...don't buy it. Thanks Adobe for helping me make the break and look for an alternative. Rest assured when I find it will post the result to all in sundry. Goodbye Adobe. Now where is that Acorn App...?

post #14 of 85

I'm a professional who uses several Adobe apps, and the subscription on paper is worth it (or very close).

 

But it's NOT worth it in reality because:

 

1. The updates are too minor. They're "kind of nice" but add relatively little monetary value to my business. So keeping a version that is 3-4 versions old makes more sense. In the end I have always upgraded simply because eventually someone sends me a file I can't open. And then I'm shocked at how little has changed. Yes, a few nice things. If Adobe wants to make it worth getting EVERY version--or subscribing--then they need to make it that much better.

 

2. BUGS, BUGS, BUGS. Bugs in my old CS3 are still not fixed to this day, and really obnoxious NEW ones have been added. If you're going to milk me for cash then deliver a solid product--like Photoshop used to be long ago.

 

3. When my subscription lapses (maybe I take a new job, shut down my business, or it evolves in a different direction) I won't be able to access my OWN CREATIVE WORK anymore. Adobe is laying ownership of my private archives! That's never going to sit well with any creative person.

 

4. I have alternatives. Adobe's stranglehold is tight, but not perfect. I can't escape yet, but I can start the process. And I am. I'll give up some things... but gain ownership of my work again and save a lot of money. It will be years before I'm fully free, but Adobe has set me on that track.

 

I would still be an Adobe customer to the tune of hundreds of dollars every few years, if they kept the traditional model.

 

I think it comes down to piracy: I'm paying through the nose for the most punitive DRM ever, just because people abused the old model. Thanks.

 

So I'm not sure whether to blame Adobe for the change (maybe)... but I blame them for changing course every few months, and for the bugs!

post #15 of 85
This isn't a point of no return either. If it turns out that a lot of people don't like it or it's not generating as much revenue as they hoped, it should be pretty much a flip of a switch to add a perpetual license feature in. They already have a special license for people who can't use the cloud services like government bodies.

All they'd have to do is make a license key that instead of paying regularly, you can pay a large one-off fee and they give you free updates for say, 2 years and then you have to pay for further updates but they can allow you to use it without updating and your support ends there.

The old payment model had a very high entry barrier. Fresh graduate (no longer student) needs to build a portfolio, no money. How do you legally start doing work? This new model, it's $20-50 and away they go.

Having a single version to work on should make things easier for the developers as they won't need to have branches and maintenance updates for multiple versions for multiple platforms.
post #16 of 85

I plan on sticking with Pixelmator, I moved there and I'm not looking back.  

 

Sorry Adobe, but for $15, I have all the tools I need.  Cheaper than a single month of Adobe rentals!

post #17 of 85

Just because it's something no one has brought up that I'm aware of … 

 

It would be easier to take the subscription model if they did like everyone else and make it cheaper that way.  A lot of software is moving to the cloud and going subscription, but typically the company makes this type of software cheaper, both to soften the blow and also because volume is generally increased so they can afford to.  It's like a reward you give your customers for the nasty "lock-in" they have to endure or a reward for them voting for your product or whatever.  

 

Adobe on the other hand, who already has a product that's outrageously overpriced by most standards, has actually raised the price for the subscription-software-in-a-cloud-that you-don't-even-own-product.  

 

So to me, it's like a giant "fuckk you" from Adobe.  They take the software even more "out of your hands" than it already is.  They raise the prices significantly.  They don't even give you the option of not upgrading anymore.  

 

It's just fucking ridiculous behaviour on Adobe's part and yet another reason why monopolies suck.  

 

I think I'm going to go into business selling "Fuckk You Adobe" T-Shirts on Etsy.  

post #18 of 85

I'm thinking Adobe has observed the overall response to CC over this past year or so and that it has plenty of good reasons to make this transition with confidence.

 

We've been CC subscribers for a year now and are now paying the full $50/mo. We consider it to be quite worth it, as we love all the new features which run very well on the new Apple hardware and Mountain Lion.

 

If this proves to be an effective deterrent against piracy, I'm happy for Adobe if that means that they lose less money to piracy and are consequently more willing and able to continue to develop and improve their products.

 

The fact of more frequent updates over his last year shows me that the company is more productive than ever and more apparently sincere in its efforts to always be improving the tools we use daily in our own work.

Daniel Swanson

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post #19 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristand View Post

"A single license of Photoshop CS6, for example, costs $700. Assuming three years' use, the program works out to roughly $230 per year. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, or $360 per year, for a total of $1,080."

Just want to correct your math there. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, which is $240 per year, or $720 for 3 years. Not much more than buying outright. plus if you had upgraded in that time, it would have cost you more.



As someone who as used Adobe software professionally for over 8 years, I honestly think this change will benefit a lot of people.

And if you stop paying your monthly dues to Adobe, everything you did in those three years will be inaccessible.

And if you already have a creative suite, an upgrade is WAY cheaper than paying Adobe for the rest of your life.

**********************

I read on the Adobe forums that an install of CC will work for 6 months without an internet connection. Hum, maybe it is cheaper to pay the "month at a time" subscription one month then never connect to the internet while using it until it expires and upping it again for a month. $150 for a year that way...

;)

post #20 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielSW View Post

I'm thinking Adobe has observed the overall response to CC over this past year or so and that it has plenty of good reasons to make this transition with confidence.

 

We've been CC subscribers for a year now and are now paying the full $50/mo. We consider it to be quite worth it, as we love all the new features which run very well on the new Apple hardware and Mountain Lion.

 

And if you stop paying, everything you have been making is inaccessible!

Looks like you are going to be paying Adobe every month for the rest of your life...

post #21 of 85

This has everything to do with smoothing and increasing Adobe's revenue and nothing to do with piracy. So long as the applications actually run on a local computer -- which they do (e.g. Adobe's cloud is not processing that filter for you on a remote server) -- pirates will figure out how to make them run locally without a login. Even AutoCAD's old dongle system was cracked back in the day, and within days of release. 

 

Now, if Adobe makes the apps actually run and process data on the cloud servers -- like any MMO game -- that might have something to do with piracy. But I don't think that's going to workable on current or even reasonably foreseeable broadband bandwidth, as it would take too long to see the results of your filter/whatever. 

 

Also on that note, you don't have to store your content on Adobe's cloud; you can save it locally instead (and most will prefer to do so because hd/ssd speeds are way faster than uploading/downloading). So you don't give away ownership or even possession of your creations, though you will of course lose legal access to them if you let your subscription lapse. 

 

All that said, thank goodness I'm eligible for faculty pricing. 

post #22 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

Looks like you are going to be paying Adobe every month for the rest of your life...

If you like Adobe products... and a subscription is now the only way to get those products... then it would appear so.

Otherwise... check out some of the fine alternatives out there.

Pixelmator is only $15... did people really pay $700 for Photoshop? 1wink.gif
post #23 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by studiomusic View Post

And if you stop paying your monthly dues to Adobe, everything you did in those three years will be inaccessible.

That's kind of nonsense. If you use the software and create a movie, it's NOT inaccessible. If you use photoshop and produce some piece of art, that's not going away. If you actually finish something with these tools, it's going to come out in a format that isn't locked to Adobe software. The only thing will be inaccessible is the intermediary pieces of your final output.
post #24 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

Just because it's something no one has brought up that I'm aware of … 

 

It would be easier to take the subscription model if they did like everyone else and make it cheaper that way.  A lot of software is moving to the cloud and going subscription, but typically the company makes this type of software cheaper, both to soften the blow and also because volume is generally increased so they can afford to.  It's like a reward you give your customers for the nasty "lock-in" they have to endure or a reward for them voting for your product or whatever.  

 

Adobe on the other hand, who already has a product that's outrageously overpriced by most standards, has actually raised the price for the subscription-software-in-a-cloud-that you-don't-even-own-product.  

 

So to me, it's like a giant "fuckk you" from Adobe.  They take the software even more "out of your hands" than it already is.  They raise the prices significantly.  They don't even give you the option of not upgrading anymore.  

 

 

Whether they raised or lowered the price depends on which suite you used.  Creative cloud is really the former Master suite which was $2600 with $1200 upgrades.  So even using the "I only upgrade every 3 years" example above, creative cloud is much cheaper.  However if you were on the other end of the spectrum of Design Standard $1200 with $250 upgrades the new creative cloud is much more expensive.  

 

One other option that was not covered is that there is also a month to month option for $75.  So if you only need the software a couple of months a year, this is cheaper still.  

 

I started using Creative Cloud last year,  For what I use, the 3 year cost were similar and not having the huge up front payment tipped the scales for me. 

post #25 of 85

What--again? Did someone order a third glass of milk?

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post #26 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristand View Post

Just want to correct your math there. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, which is $240 per year, or $720 for 3 years. Not much more than buying outright. plus if you had upgraded in that time, it would have cost you more.

For users who purchase the Master Suite - Creative cloud is WAY cheaper.

 

 

But the one thing you're not factoring in is that at the end of those 3 years and $720 outlay for Photoshop CC, you still own *nothing* but a nice requirement to keep on paying that $240 a year just to be able to open all the work you've created.  With a perpetual license, on the other hand, you can continue to use the program near indefinitely. 

Ownership of a perpetual license is a tangible asset that must be factored into any value calculations.  When done so, CC is not WAY cheaper in the long run, not by a long shot. 

Creative Cloud is the equivalent of leasing a car over 3 years, paying the full outright cost during that time, and then having to turn the car back in and walk away with absolutely nothing.  But even that's not bad enough.  To truly see how bad the deal is, after turning in your car, you'd also be prohibited from driving on any roads you drove on while using that car. 

 

To summarize:  After 3 years of CC, you've paid more than buying the software outright, and this assumes you bought a full, retail version as opposed to upgrading from an older version.  From that point, you can stop paying, loose access to the application(s) and any edibility of anything you've created during that time, or you can continue to pay indefinitely.

 

After 3 years ownership of a perpetual license, your investment is likely long since recovered and you can continue using your software for however long it continues to run on whatever OS/platform you use.  10 to 15 years is not an outrageous estimate.  You maintain full access and edibility to anything you created, and anything you subsequently create.  You could upgrade to the latest version for a relatively small amount.  Or you could sell or transfer your license to another person if you no longer need it. 

What's really sad/scary is how incapable people are at fully evaluating value in a purchase.  Think about it.  People are arguing that paying the same amount for something over 3 years, yet owning nothing is more valuable than buying something outright.  I'm not saying there aren't scenarios where the subscription model doesn't have advantages, but value is *never* one of them.  Never.  There is no value in renting.

post #27 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJMonline View Post

 

Whether they raised or lowered the price depends on which suite you used.  Creative cloud is really the former Master suite which was $2600 with $1200 upgrades.  So even using the "I only upgrade every 3 years" example above, creative cloud is much cheaper.  However if you were on the other end of the spectrum of Design Standard $1200 with $250 upgrades the new creative cloud is much more expensive.  

 

One other option that was not covered is that there is also a month to month option for $75.  So if you only need the software a couple of months a year, this is cheaper still.  

 

I started using Creative Cloud last year,  For what I use, the 3 year cost were similar and not having the huge up front payment tipped the scales for me. 



First of all, the Master Collection does not cost $2600.  I just purchased CS 6 last year from Amazon, and it was $2300.  So, let's do the real numbers:

CS6 Master Collection, over 3 years:  $2300 total outlay
Creative Cloud monthly over 3 years:  $1800 total outlay

 

CS6 to a CS7 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $3500 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $3600 total outlay
 

CS7 to a CS8 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $4700 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $5400 total outlay
 

CS8 to a CS9 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $5900 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $7200 total outlay

 

CS9 to a CS10 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $7100 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $9000 total outlay

 

CS10 to a CS11 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $8300 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $10,800 total outlay


etc...

Or, how about we do what a lot of people do and skip every other major version.

 

CS6 Master Collection, over 3 years:  $2300 total outlay
Creative Cloud monthly over 3 years:  $1800 total outlay

 

Skip CS7 and continue using CS 6 for another 3 years: $2300 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $3600 total outlay
 

CS6 to a CS8 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $3500 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $5400 total outlay
 

Skip CS9 and continue using CS8 for another 3 years: $3500 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $7200 total outlay

 

CS8 to a CS10 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $4700 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $9000 total outlay

 

Skip CS11 and continue using CS10 for another 3 years: $4700 total outlay

Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $10,800 total outlay

And it must be stressed that at no point in the Creative Cloud subscription do you own *anything*, where for perpetual licenses, you can not upgrade at any time, never pay another dime and happily continue using your applications indefinitely.

post #28 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post

First of all, the Master Collection does not cost $2600.  I just purchased CS 6 last year from Amazon, and it was $2300.  So, let's do the real numbers:

CS6 Master Collection, over 3 years:  $2300 total outlay
Creative Cloud monthly over 3 years:  $1800 total outlay

CS6 to a CS7 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $3500 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $3600 total outlay
 
CS7 to a CS8 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $4700 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $5400 total outlay
 
CS8 to a CS9 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $5900 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $7200 total outlay

CS9 to a CS10 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $7100 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $9000 total outlay

CS10 to a CS11 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $8300 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $10,800 total outlay

etc...

Or, how about we do what a lot of people do and skip every other major version.

CS6 Master Collection, over 3 years:  $2300 total outlay
Creative Cloud monthly over 3 years:  $1800 total outlay

Skip CS7 and continue using CS 6 for another 3 years: $2300 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $3600 total outlay
 
CS6 to a CS8 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $3500 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $5400 total outlay
 
Skip CS9 and continue using CS8 for another 3 years: $3500 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $7200 total outlay

CS8 to a CS10 upgrade ($1200), then use that for 3 years: $4700 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $9000 total outlay

Skip CS11 and continue using CS10 for another 3 years: $4700 total outlay
Continue paying monthly for Creative Cloud: $10,800 total outlay

And it must be stressed that at no point in the Creative Cloud subscription do you own *anything*, where for perpetual licenses, you can not upgrade at any time, never pay another dime and happily continue using your applications indefinitely.

Very good analysis... and it's exactly the same discussion that popped up a year ago when Creative Cloud was announced.

Back then we had the choice of perpetual licenses or Creative Cloud subscriptions.

Sadly... the only way to get Adobe software today is with Creative Cloud subscriptions.

So where do we go from here? Is it time to switch to Pixelmator, Inkscape, Avid and Blender? Is Adobe software no longer useful since you can only get it with expensive subscription plans?

Also... I like how you've figured out the cost differences over 18 years... but I doubt anyone plans software purchases that far ahead.

I totally understand your logic... and you do save money over time... but I don't think it will be a big deal to most people. If they like Adobe software... they will do whatever they have to do in order to keep using it.

Or we'll have to see if the alternatives take all of Adobe's customers.

I'm more heartbroken realizing I will be spending $20,000 for a smartphone over the next 18 years... 1hmm.gif
post #29 of 85
I own CS 2, 3, 4 , and 5. I was a loyal and active member of the now-disbanded Adobe Service Network. I demoed and taught on them all. I like CS2 and 5. I am confident CS6 is probably adequate for most in the field.

I think the subscription idea is nice but not sustainable. Too many users need PS but not a monthly noose around their neck to use it. If I calculate all the time I would not be using PS against the subscription fee as opposed to owning the program as I do now the price of the subscription more than quadruples! Indeed, this moved placed the user in chains. Such a move, ultimately will be fatal on an emotional level at least.

This makes Adobe products now eminently overpriced and out of reach. An alternative will be in the works almost immediately from a creative startup or even a tried and true developer like Apple itself. This will make Quark Express once again quite attractive and QE could, I imagine, present an alternative worth considering immediately as well.

Even Scott Kelby can't sav this one.
post #30 of 85
What happens when the upgrade and your plugins don't work anymore? You're screwed?
post #31 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristand View Post

"A single license of Photoshop CS6, for example, costs $700. Assuming three years' use, the program works out to roughly $230 per year. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, or $360 per year, for a total of $1,080."

Just want to correct your math there. A subscription to Photoshop CC runs at $20 per month, which is $240 per year, or $720 for 3 years. Not much more than buying outright. plus if you had upgraded in that time, it would have cost you more.

For users who purchase the Master Suite - Creative cloud is WAY cheaper.

You can see they are aiming it at the professionals who would make up a bulk amount of their business. It also means people who could only afford 1 program before now can have access to everything for only $50 per month, allowing them to learn other programs, get new skills and further push Adobe as the industry standard.

The student pricing is dirt cheap, allowing students access to everything for only $20 per month. This was unheard of only a couple of years ago, and I think will help on the piracy side of things.

For small business, the subscription model is great for affordability, and can be written off on tax time (in Australia anyway) - again probably reducing piracy. Plus it gives these smaller businesses access to more software than they may have been able to afford in the past.

Another benefit is that Adobe can now concentrate solely on improving software. No more costs for packaging and distributing hard copies. No more trying to bundle updates into a new release. Now they can really push forward and give us new features faster - this is especially important for those in the web industry.

As someone who as used Adobe software professionally for over 8 years, I honestly think this change will benefit a lot of people.
post #32 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This isn't a point of no return either. If it turns out that a lot of people don't like it or it's not generating as much revenue as they hoped, it should be pretty much a flip of a switch to add a perpetual license feature in. They already have a special license for people who can't use the cloud services like government bodies.

All they'd have to do is make a license key that instead of paying regularly, you can pay a large one-off fee and they give you free updates for say, 2 years and then you have to pay for further updates but they can allow you to use it without updating and your support ends there.

The old payment model had a very high entry barrier. Fresh graduate (no longer student) needs to build a portfolio, no money. How do you legally start doing work? This new model, it's $20-50 and away they go.

Having a single version to work on should make things easier for the developers as they won't need to have branches and maintenance updates for multiple versions for multiple platforms.

Just to address the student example, education licenses were cheap, and Adobe didn't have any rules against commercial use even with that version. At that point you would be on upgrade pricing, which was much less. The upgrade pricing with creative suite did escalate if you didn't upgrade every version., but it was still cheaper if you could initially buy in with a student license. I get the feeling they're still working out the details. Adobe can be annoying, but if they really lose a lot of customers through this, they will make changes. I'm not sure what percentage of their sales involves individual users as opposed to businesses.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


If you like Adobe products... and a subscription is now the only way to get those products... then it would appear so.

Otherwise... check out some of the fine alternatives out there.

Pixelmator is only $15... did people really pay $700 for Photoshop? 1wink.gif


It's been about the same price since the 1990s. If they weren't the defacto standard, the price probably would have decreased by now. Even Painter was quite expensive in recent years. It was $600 or $700 last year, but it looks like it dropped quite a bit according to Amazon. I think I got my initial non-student version by purchasing an intuos2 and using the upgrade offer for $350 or something like that.  I've also never used Pixelmator. It didn't even exist at the time. I have used Gimp just to compare. It doesn't handle extreme file sizes as well and lacks certain features, but I like the way it renders paths.

post #33 of 85
What about those who already have CS6 (like myself), signing up now for a $20 monthly subscription will cost me $360 for 18 months, which has been roughly the time interval for the last several years between two consecutive $200 worth of upgrades.
The subscription cost is almost double compared to the "classic" upgrade based cost. As the years pass by the cost difference will keep increasing.
For new users, who don't have to pay the $700 purchase price upfront the yearly subscription option is definitely cheaper, but for how long?
Every year and a half the savings wil go down by $160, which is the difference berween the one time $200 upgrade price and the $360 subscription paid during the same period of time. Inflation and other things may slightly alter the above numbers, but the final conclusion is the same.
On the long run the subscription "option" will be more expensive for the individual user of CS6.

How could Appleinsider and all who commented on this issue miss this very simple math exercise?
I will stay with CS6 for some years to come. To use it for restoring old photographs and to do small corrections to new ones (removing unwanted objects, for example) CS6 will be adequate for several more years. For everything else there is Lightroom.
Adobe's move will fuel the sale of the pirated copies of their software for individual users who will be screwed by the subscription based "purchase" of their programs.
That will probably offset the extra money Adobe will make using the subscription system, so the net gain for the company will probably be close to zero, it may even go into negative territory. As a frustrated individual customer I wish this think to happen to Adobe.
post #34 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kicsike View Post

As the years pass by the cost difference will keep increasing.

 

And probably the new features will keep decreasing (there's only so many things you can do to an image).

 

Eventually you could be perpetually paying for something that never changes.

post #35 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstark View Post

I own CS 2, 3, 4 , and 5. I was a loyal and active member of the now-disbanded Adobe Service Network. I demoed and taught on them all. I like CS2 and 5. I am confident CS6 is probably adequate for most in the field.

I think the subscription idea is nice but not sustainable. Too many users need PS but not a monthly noose around their neck to use it. If I calculate all the time I would not be using PS against the subscription fee as opposed to owning the program as I do now the price of the subscription more than quadruples! Indeed, this moved placed the user in chains. Such a move, ultimately will be fatal on an emotional level at least.

This makes Adobe products now eminently overpriced and out of reach. An alternative will be in the works almost immediately from a creative startup or even a tried and true developer like Apple itself. This will make Quark Express once again quite attractive and QE could, I imagine, present an alternative worth considering immediately as well.

Even Scott Kelby can't sav this one.


Worse, it actually makes sense for big companies to take tools like Gimp and retool them. What's hiring five guys for development/maintenance of your tools if you have 200 graphists, each paying 50$ a month? It's "equivalent". Except afterwards, you own the result, and during development, you have control.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #36 of 85
Adobe customer's split? What? No most of Adobe's customers love the idea! The other half complaining are the ones with pirated software and are crying because they might not be able to do it anymore.

Adobe launches new software just about annually now with updates. I'm paying $30 a month for the Creative Suite and will save money when compared to the old method of DVD(I was eligible because I had CS 6). I will pay the year off and be done with it till next year.

Do any of you realize that now with Adobe CC we get these updates and new features YEAR ROUND and no longer have to wait till a new DVD package comes out???

Get off the "Lets bash Adobe" wagon and do your research first before you go lighting a torch. This is going too far these days.
post #37 of 85

This action by Adobe has nothing to do with piracy. Piracy is just the red hering.

It is about locking their customers in and make more money from them.

 

Until now Adobe had to bring enough new features for their customers to pay for the update,

now they don't need new features. Their customers have to pay anyway if they don't want to loose

access to their past work.

 

Will the new updates be forced on your computer when Adobe releases one?

As buggy as most software is in the beginning I would like to test an update on one machine

before implementing it on all.
 

post #38 of 85
This isn't Adobe's first fail. I remember when they were planning to abandon the mac platform completely (same as Xpress). Adobe is one of the last companies with absurd prices for their software. Even upgrades are strongly overpriced. That is the main problem. Adobe makes things much too complicated. They should reduce staff and become lean and mean again. Now they seem fat. The font business is also crashing due to absurd prices. Subscription will nit solve their problems. The company must be built up from scratch.......!

Jan Tromp
post #39 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I'm more heartbroken realizing I will be spending $20,000 for a smartphone over the next 18 years... 1hmm.gif

lol.gif What you need is the Pixelmatphone:



Just as good and no strings attached (well just one).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii 
Eventually you could be perpetually paying for something that never changes.

That's what their cloud services are for. They give you server storage and $20,000 worth of fonts among other things. It's sort of like paying $10-50/month for Dropbox (something that never changes).

http://terrywhite.com/5-myths-about-adobe-creative-cloud/

The Creative Cloud allows you to put apps on two computers too. This means you can run the Mac and Windows versions so if you have a Windows-only plugin, you can use it in a workflow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland 
This action by Adobe has nothing to do with piracy. Piracy is just the red hering. It is about locking their customers in and make more money from them.

It's partly about creating a more sustainable business model like Apple has with the App Store. If you think way down the line, where's the profit going to be? It's in services and content.

You can see this right now. Companies like Avid are hovering on the edge of bankruptcy because they are sticking with the route of high payment, software-as-a-product model. Once you have a version that works, why would you ever upgrade? That's great for the customer but terrible for the business. So what's the problem? Well, if that company goes out of business, how is that good for the customer?

Microsoft has a subscription service now too for Office. Avid should consider doing the same - they can even offer cloud services for sharing dailies and projects. So should all the high-end software providers. Over time, some can consolidate like what happened with TV subscriptions.
post #40 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

This action by Adobe has nothing to do with piracy. Piracy is just the red hering.
It is about locking their customers in and make more money from them.

Until now Adobe had to bring enough new features for their customers to pay for the update,
now they don't need new features. Their customers have to pay anyway if they don't want to loose
access to their past work.

How is that? Once again: please read the CC FAQ on Adobe.com. You do NOT need to use the cloud storage or bonus services at all. You can (and should!) still save to your own storage media, as well as back up using Time Machine or backup utility of choice.
Quote:

Will the new updates be forced on your computer when Adobe releases one?

NO! You will be informed that updates are available, but in no way "forced" to update. You will also be allowed to roll-back an update if it breaks something near and dear to your 3rd party installs like plug-ins.
Quote:
As buggy as most software is in the beginning I would like to test an update on one machine
before implementing it on all.

And finally: Yes... you may do exactly that... and I highly recommend it!

One of the nice "features" of CC, is that on multiple computers, your Adobe preferences and presets are synced. 3rd party software you will (obviously) have to do manually.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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