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Adobe customers' opinions split as company shifts to subscription platform - Page 3

post #81 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Maybe I'm misunderstanding here... but what I don't agree with is some kind of colluded, multi-tier, monster table of licenses and ticked feature lists. Not only do I personally hate them as a user... I despise creating them for clients as well(!)


I totally agree on overly complex feature in/exclusions.  For years, I struggled with the various CS sub-suites, always finding each one omitted 1 or 2 applications that I preferred to have.  I finally broke down and bought the Master Collection last year and was, and remain, absolutely satisfied.  The features are great, and the applications pretty rock solid reliable, so I'm not an Adobe hater here.

On the other hand, this move does make me rather suspicious considering it's come after Adobe has thoroughly consolidated their grip on the industries their many tools serve.  A lot of people have been saying "just find and use alternatives" when the cold, hard truth is that in most cases, serious alternatives really just don't exist.  Adobe IS the standard, and credit to them for achieving that.  But that being the case, when work is, to a large extent, locked within certain file formats, it's a decidedly punitive, if not outright abusive, step to tie access to one's own files (in those formats) to a perpetual monthly fee. 

Returning to the KISS argument, I'll agree that things shouldn't be overly or unnecessarily complex.  But it's absolutely the case that the needs of Adobe's customers are probably among the widest ranging as any customer base can be.  In my case, I don't do web design, audio or page layout work for hire, but I do need to maintain my own web site and occasionally need to handle small layout or audio tasks.  I can justify the up-front costs of purchasing those applications as part of the overall collection because as they stand right now, they'll more than serve my needs for the foreseeable future.  But I simply can't justify their cost if it's monthly and perpetual. 

I do think the solution of granting perpetual license rights after a sufficient time on subscription would be the best of both worlds - it neither takes away the attraction of immediate access to the latest tools, nor penalizes those who simply don't need every bleeding edge feature, and it leaves Adobe with a continual incentive to deliver on the promise of faster/quicker/better updates.  Not to come across as a skeptic (which I'm really not), but no argument can legitimately be made that Adobe has a greater incentive to deliver value once their income is essentially guaranteed simply by granting access to their products as they currently exist on their customer's hard drives today.

Considering the reaction in the comments section of virtually every article I've read has been overwhelmingly negative, I'm hopeful Adobe seriously considers a middle-road solution.  I do love their tools, and derive a considerable percent of my income from them, so again, I'm simply not an Adobe hater.  I just think this move is a little overreaching and might begin to touch on an abuse of the position they hold. 

post #82 of 85
"Guaranteed updates"? There are several major bugs in Photoshop CS6 that Adobe known about for at least a year (even since beta). And as usual with Adobe, the fixes will only come when you purchase the next major release (despite it being subscription or not), which, in turn and deliberately, will introduce new major bugs.

Adobe should be sued for this. And for being a monopoly, too.
post #83 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

Thanks, but it looks like that's a PC program and I work on Macs. But thanks for the reply. 

Who...? What? Penelope Cruz? I believe she's multi-platform , multi-talented... along with being multi-lingual 1smile.gif
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post #84 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Connell View Post


I totally agree on overly complex feature in/exclusions.  For years, I struggled with the various CS sub-suites, always finding each one omitted 1 or 2 applications that I preferred to have.  I finally broke down and bought the Master Collection last year and was, and remain, absolutely satisfied.  The features are great, and the applications pretty rock solid reliable, so I'm not an Adobe hater here.


On the other hand, this move does make me rather suspicious considering it's come after Adobe has thoroughly consolidated their grip on the industries their many tools serve.  A lot of people have been saying "just find and use alternatives" when the cold, hard truth is that in most cases, serious alternatives really just don't exist.  Adobe IS the standard, and credit to them for achieving that.  But that being the case, when work is, to a large extent, locked within certain file formats, it's a decidedly punitive, if not outright abusive, step to tie access to one's own files (in those formats) to a perpetual monthly fee. 


Returning to the KISS argument, I'll agree that things shouldn't be overly or unnecessarily complex.  But it's absolutely the case that the needs of Adobe's customers are probably among the widest ranging as any customer base can be.  In my case, I don't do web design, audio or page layout work for hire, but I do need to maintain my own web site and occasionally need to handle small layout or audio tasks.  I can justify the up-front costs of purchasing those applications as part of the overall collection because as they stand right now, they'll more than serve my needs for the foreseeable future.  But I simply can't justify their cost if it's monthly and perpetual. 


I do think the solution of granting perpetual license rights after a sufficient time on subscription would be the best of both worlds - it neither takes away the attraction of immediate access to the latest tools, nor penalizes those who simply don't need every bleeding edge feature, and it leaves Adobe with a continual incentive to deliver on the promise of faster/quicker/better updates.  Not to come across as a skeptic (which I'm really not), but no argument can legitimately be made that Adobe has a greater incentive to deliver value once their income is essentially guaranteed simply by granting access to their products as they currently exist on their customer's hard drives today.


Considering the reaction in the comments section of virtually every article I've read has been overwhelmingly negative, I'm hopeful Adobe seriously considers a middle-road solution.  I do love their tools, and derive a considerable percent of my income from them, so again, I'm simply not an Adobe hater.  I just think this move is a little overreaching and might begin to touch on an abuse of the position they hold. 

Very nice post!

I'm actually pretty torn between the whole ordeal to tell ya the truth. For me... and about 10 other people I've counted on assorted forums... the sub looks very attractive if Adobe keeps to their word. What it comes down to and where I also have to be somewhat skeptical, is Adobe's past of not fixing bugs at all or very late before bringing new versions out. Also, the transparency of what they truly are planning here.

In my "wishful thinking", I would love it if the individual programs would be stripped of their overlapping functions, making them lean, mean and efficient... and because you have ALL of the programs, those would function perfectly for the task at hand. For example: I see no good reason going forward why video editing should be in Photoshop if you have access to Premier. Or.... if Illustrator was discontinued in favor of a cross-program vector widget/plugin* for Photoshop, InDesign, Muse... or even for Flash/PhoneGap. What about the sad addition of Paragraph and Character Style Pallettes to Photoshop? You can debate whether they should be in an image-editor at all... but the biggest problem is that you would "expect" that the would function the same as in inDesign and Illustrator. The don't... and they are a HOG with many styles on say a web site mock-up.

Modules* would fix that, well at least the differences between the palettes and functions in each program. Because you do have to ask: why are we even using an image editor to mock up a website that later needs to be properly coded? And speaking of web design: how telling is it that there are already a number of website online apps that do HTML5/CSS3/JQuery coding and layout... 1000x better than Dreamweaver.. or even the new Edge tools? I don't think Adobe is oblivious that fact either, and they, or at least the engineers, know they are losing the game slowly but surely.

* I've asked many times on the Adobe forums if anyone knows what happened to the idea, at about the time plug-ins for PS came into existence... what happened to the other big idea of "modular feature sets".. basically Adobe designed plugins that would work with all of their main/base software programs. Thereby truly extending them rather than slapping a new binary on the market like with PS and PS Extended. The modular approach was always a fascinating idea to me. For example, I don't consider Illustrator complete and/or even workable without the add-ons/plugins from Astute Graphics, which truly extend "stock" Illustrator. Naturally we all know how popular PS plugins are... but even for InDesign there are quite a few nice ones.

The overlap and attended bloat, including cramming too many things into each program to satisfy sub-sets of users over the years, and then after the fact fixing (or not!) the bugs... is what's making most people skeptical in the first place. If Adobe came out and said this was for a complete re-imagining of the tools we use... and yes... you will want ALL of them, not just PS... then I could see more people thinking $50.00 to be a good deal... maybe!... and probably later.

Naturally at the same time, continuing to offer CS6. ... but wait... that's exactly what they are doing, isn't it? You can use CS6 until the end of time with a perpetual license.

Could it be that many of those programs in CS6 will not even be around in 2-3 or 5 years? Fireworks is already EOL... and I think Dreamweaver is next in favor of the new Edge tools. What else could be EOLed and/or replaced with a "module" similar to Mini Bridge?
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post #85 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

In my "wishful thinking", I would love it if the individual programs would be stripped of their overlapping functions, making them lean, mean and efficient... and because you have ALL of the programs, those would function perfectly for the task at hand. For example: I see no good reason going forward why video editing should be in Photoshop if you have access to Premier. Or.... if Illustrator was discontinued in favor of a cross-program vector widget/plugin* for Photoshop, InDesign, Muse... or even for Flash/PhoneGap. What about the sad addition of Paragraph and Character Style Pallettes to Photoshop? You can debate whether they should be in an image-editor at all... but the biggest problem is that you would "expect" that the would function the same as in inDesign and Illustrator. The don't... and they are a HOG with many styles on say a web site mock-up.

Modules* would fix that, well at least the differences between the palettes and functions in each program.

One problem using plugins is when it comes to save formats. Every file format would have to be updated to support every plugin they make so that the data can be saved with the project. I would like the apps to be streamlined too though rather than bloated with cross-functionality.

I don't like there being a lot of apps either. One option might be to have umbrella apps e.g

Adobe Cinema, Adobe Design, Adobe Web, Adobe Photo

When you open the Cinema app, when you hit file > new, you'd have the option to create an NLE tab, an Effects tab, or an audio tab.
Opening the Design app, you can make a layout tab or a vector tab.
Opening the Web app, you can do any of the HTML 5, Flash, code editing etc.
In Photo, you'd have Lightroom and Photoshop tabs.

This merges common programs together and apps in each umbrella share a memory allocation. This way if you make a title sequence in an Effects tab and put it into the NLE, there's no intermediates. When you update the effect, just flip over to the NLE tab and it will render the parts required. If you have a vector design to go into a magazine, you can link it in the layout in the next tab without having a copy/paste between.

If they needed a specialized function like an image cropping tool, that can be a tab (program) by itself and those special programs can be shared between umbrella apps so a crop tool could be used for cropping video as well as stills.

The umbrella project files can be bundles of projects that all get saved together but there can be options to save separately or at least some version control.
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