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Our President's Weakness & Incompetence Will Lead to War

post #1 of 101
Thread Starter 
President Obama's weakness, indecision and general incompetence have resulted in many problems to date, from a still-weak economy, to a disastrous healthcare bill, to dead Americans in Benghazi. But there are three situations in the world that may well lead to another major military conflict, and perhaps even a nuclear confrontation: Syria. Iran. North Korea. All three of these situations have been handled in an extremely weak and dangerous way. North Korea's outrageous behavior and threats have only been met with "we're ready to defend our allies" and clearly leaked stories of certain military assets being re-positioned. Alternately, Obama issues his own "the days of North Korea issuing threats and getting concessions are over" line. This, of course, is nonsense. North Korea must be told that it's constant threats will not be tolerated. Moreover, it must be told directly that if it attacks the U.S. or our allies, it will be decimated as its leaders lose power. Only strength can prevent North Korea from testing the waters militarily, as they did with previous attacks on South Korean personnel. On Iran, Obama has boasted of increased sanctions. However, the reality is that there is no evidence these sanctions have changed the mullah's minds. Iran is biding its time. Obama has talked tough on Iran since he first ran for President. Yet, in those 5 years, there is no indication the approach is working. Meanwhile, Israel is getting nervous. And when Israel feels nervous enough, look out. Eventually, Israel is going to attack Iran directly. Iran will likely retaliate, and the U.S. will need to intervene. This could easily become a full scale war. It will merely take one aircraft carrier getting attacked. Alternately, what if Iran *does* get the bomb? What if it attacks Israel either preemptively or in retaliation? Bingo...nuclear war. Finally, while it poses much less of a direct threat, Obama's dithering on Syria is truly remarkable. For several years, his administration has drawn a "red line." That line was defined as "evidence of chemical weapons use." We now have the Secretary of Defense saying that chemical weapons have been used. Obama's response? That's a perception, and he can't act on perception. He even paused to attack George W. Bush on intelligence failures in Iraq, stating "acting on [false intelligence] hasn't worked out for us so well in the past." He didn't say that we need more time to confirm the conclusion. He didn't even say there would be serious consequences if it turned out to be true. He simply moved the line. Even the usually softball-throwing press corps is starting to ask whether anyone will take us serious if we don't follow through. Not following through with clear consequences (be they arming rebels, going to the UN, getting involved directly, etc) sends a clear message: Weakness. The weakness, ambiguity and fecklessness Obama has demonstrated is likely to lead to a much larger war. Worse still, he's too arrogant to ever have a hope of realizing it.
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post #2 of 101

SDW, some paragraphs, line breaks and formatting please!

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #3 of 101
Funny because we're already in 2 wars that didn't start under this administration. So what does that say about Bush? Don't discount "we're ready to defend" it's a very powerful weapon and why we've never been attacked by a major power since Pearl Harbor. Ohh and what did Bush do with North Korea who has WMDs and was testingthem out for the whole world to see? Why wasn't a hard stance taken then?
Edited by dasanman69 - 5/8/13 at 11:42am
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #4 of 101

Paraphrasing:  War will happen because we haven't puffed out our chests enough and already declared war.

 

Also, paragraphs are your friend.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #5 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Funny because we're already in 2 wars that didn't start under this administration. So what does that say about Bush? Don't discount "we're ready to defend" it's a very powerful weapon and why we've never been attacked by a major power since Pearl Harbor. Ohh and what did Bush do with North Korea who has WMDs and was testingthem out for the whole world to see? Why wasn't a hard stance taken then?

 

Is this really all that is left regarding defending the stance of President Obama? Bush did it?!? Bush didn't do it?!?!?

 

Just to clarify. Obama has been in office for five years. All of WWII was 6 years long. Exactly when does Obama become responsible for what happens under his watch? Obama has been in office longer than the entire Korean War. Obama has been in office longer than the entire Civil War. Even if he didn't start them, he has certainly had enough time to stop them and chart a different course.

 

As for Bush, he labeled North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil" and was accused of being a warmonger for suggesting that they were trying to do us harm. Of course that was in the bad old days of the "War on Terror" before we were being greeted with flowers in Boston, Fort Hood and other such wonderful occasions we now all recall.

 

Obama and his defenders declare that the problem wasn't the Middle East, extremist Islam beliefs, or even terrorism. The problems were us and in electing Obama, we would have fixed "us." The world would show a new found respect for the U.S and would stop causing problems because they weren't the problem, they were merely reflecting the problem of George W. Bush, the evil oil man trying to grab all the oil in the Middle East. The evil warmonger trying to help keep the miltary busy with his policies of American exceptionalism and America first.

 

The problem wasn't Bush. The problem isn't the U.S. and since the diagnosis has been wrong. So has the solution. Electing Obama has solved nothing and his incompetence is allowing a bad situation to get much worse.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #6 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Is this really all that is left regarding defending the stance of President Obama? Bush did it?!? Bush didn't do it?!?!?

Just to clarify. Obama has been in office for five years. All of WWII was 6 years long. Exactly when does Obama become responsible for what happens under his watch? Obama has been in office longer than the entire Korean War. Obama has been in office longer than the entire Civil War. Even if he didn't start them, he has certainly had enough time to stop them and chart a different course.

As for Bush, he labeled North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil" and was accused of being a warmonger for suggesting that they were trying to do us harm. Of course that was in the bad old days of the "War on Terror" before we were being greeted with flowers in Boston, Fort Hood and other such wonderful occasions we now all recall.

Obama and his defenders declare that the problem wasn't the Middle East, extremist Islam beliefs, or even terrorism. The problems were us and in electing Obama, we would have fixed "us." The world would show a new found respect for the U.S and would stop causing problems because they weren't the problem, they were merely reflecting the problem of George W. Bush, the evil oil man trying to grab all the oil in the Middle East. The evil warmonger trying to help keep the miltary busy with his policies of American exceptionalism and America first.

The problem wasn't Bush. The problem isn't the U.S. and since the diagnosis has been wrong. So has the solution. Electing Obama has solved nothing and his incompetence is allowing a bad situation to get much worse.

I'm not saying Obama is blameless, my point is that he's no different from the President(s) that came before him. I believe we'd be in more or less the same place regardless of who's in office. Btw there wouldn't have been all these terror plots had we gone after the real threat, North Korea. The problem isn't the president, it's the soldiers in those countries. I'm sure us here are law abiding citizens but how many of us would take up arms against an invading force? Would you take kindly to tanks coming up your street or having to go through 5 checkpoints to get to work?
Edited by dasanman69 - 5/8/13 at 2:08pm
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #7 of 101

lol.gif Ah Geez! lol.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #8 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Paraphrasing:  War will happen because we haven't puffed out our chests enough and already declared war.

 

Also, paragraphs are your friend.

He just doesn't remember what happened when we did that last time. And you know we didn't declare war then but we were there for more than a decade. All the conservative types around here at the time were saying it was a quick in and out sort of situation. I said at the time it was more like Vietnam and we would be tied up there for years. In the end no WMD and many lives and dollars spent but good ol' dubbya and the hawks got their way ( and yes SDW some others were suckered in by the president in the process ). As the occupation progressed the reason we invaded kept changing as justification was absent.

 

 The age of smoke and mirrors is over. It's not the early part of this century anymore and cooler heads prevail.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #9 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Funny because we're already in 2 wars that didn't start under this administration. So what does that say about Bush? Don't discount "we're ready to defend" it's a very powerful weapon and why we've never been attacked by a major power since Pearl Harbor. Ohh and what did Bush do with North Korea who has WMDs and was testingthem out for the whole world to see? Why wasn't a hard stance taken then?

 

Is this really all that is left regarding defending the stance of President Obama? Bush did it?!? Bush didn't do it?!?!?

 

Just to clarify. Obama has been in office for five years. All of WWII was 6 years long. Exactly when does Obama become responsible for what happens under his watch? Obama has been in office longer than the entire Korean War. Obama has been in office longer than the entire Civil War. Even if he didn't start them, he has certainly had enough time to stop them and chart a different course.

 

As for Bush, he labeled North Korea part of the "Axis of Evil" and was accused of being a warmonger for suggesting that they were trying to do us harm. Of course that was in the bad old days of the "War on Terror" before we were being greeted with flowers in Boston, Fort Hood and other such wonderful occasions we now all recall.

 

Obama and his defenders declare that the problem wasn't the Middle East, extremist Islam beliefs, or even terrorism. The problems were us and in electing Obama, we would have fixed "us." The world would show a new found respect for the U.S and would stop causing problems because they weren't the problem, they were merely reflecting the problem of George W. Bush, the evil oil man trying to grab all the oil in the Middle East. The evil warmonger trying to help keep the miltary busy with his policies of American exceptionalism and America first.

 

The problem wasn't Bush. The problem isn't the U.S. and since the diagnosis has been wrong. So has the solution. Electing Obama has solved nothing and his incompetence is allowing a bad situation to get much worse.

 

Quote:

 Bush did it?!?

Why should we make a similar mistake? Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me! Bush couldn't even get that one right :

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

 

By the way how's those clothes?1wink.gif

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #10 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Why should we make a similar mistake? Fool me once shame on you.  Fool me twice shame on me! Bush couldn't even get that one right :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

By the way how's those clothes?1wink.gif

That doesn't get old lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #11 of 101

Weakness and incompetence? That is being wildly over generous. Perhaps it should be told the way he is: spineless, criminally negligent, in flagrant breach of his oath of office to protect and defend the United States and its Constitution (on numerous count), treachery, war crimes and financial irresponsibility to the point of recklessness. And then more.

 

The Benghazi fiasco is typical... here, his administration, with NATO in tow, sided with the al Qaeda (Islamist) radicals in Libya  Hillary Clinton should get royally fired, at the very least, for her likely role. And the same in Syria. Makes one wonder if al Qaeda are really enemy they are sold as....

 

I hope Nordstrom doesn't succumb in the war on whistleblowers....

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #12 of 101

Obama never had the cajones to be a leader of a great country.He should have stayed with being a lawyer or teach law.He is spineless and has not pure guts at all.
 

post #13 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Weakness and incompetence? That is being wildly over generous. Perhaps it should be told the way he is: spineless, criminally negligent, in flagrant breach of his oath of office to protect and defend the United States and its Constitution (on numerous count), treachery, war crimes and financial irresponsibility to the point of recklessness. And then more.

The Benghazi fiasco is typical... here, his administration, with NATO in tow, sided with the al Qaeda (Islamist) radicals in Libya  Hillary Clinton should get royally fired, at the very least, for her likely role. And the same in Syria. Makes one wonder if al Qaeda are really enemy they are sold as....

I hope Nordstrom doesn't succumb in the war on whistleblowers....

Didn't we side with Islamic radicals in Afghanistan against Russia? How well did that turn out? Great idea to train and arm your enemy to be.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #14 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

SDW, some paragraphs, line breaks and formatting please!

 

Yeah, I'm sorry. It's apparently the Chrome browser I'm using. All my posts are coming out like that. They can't even be edited to add spaces and line breaks afterwards.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #15 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Paraphrasing:  War will happen because we haven't puffed out our chests enough and already declared war.

 

Also, paragraphs are your friend.

 

Paragraphs: Again, sorry...it appears to be the browser I'm using. Apparently AI and Chrome don't play nice. As for your paraphrasing, I'm not arguing that we should "puff out our chests." In fact, that's what Obama is doing...mere chest puffing. We should simply lay down clear limits and consequences and then actually follow through.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #16 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He just doesn't remember what happened when we did that last time. And you know we didn't declare war then but we were there for more than a decade.

Yeah, I missed the part where I called for war. In fact, I seem to remember expressing serious concern that Obama's actions will lead to war. What is it that liberals and leftists don't understand about "Peace Through Strength." ?

Quote:
All the conservative types around here at the time were saying it was a quick in and out sort of situation. I said at the time it was more like Vietnam and we would be tied up there for years. In the end no WMD and many lives and dollars spent but good ol' dubbya and the hawks got their way ( and yes SDW some others were suckered in by the president in the process ). As the occupation progressed the reason we invaded kept changing as justification was absent.

 The age of smoke and mirrors is over. It's not the early part of this century anymore and cooler heads prevail.

I don't know a single person who said it would be quick and easy, nor does Iraq really have much to do with this thread. This isn't a call for war...it's a discussion of which policies lead to war, and which don't. It's my contention that the Obama approach is dangerous and will lead to armed conflict. I do not want armed conflict. But I think that if we stay on the current path of weakness, naïveté, incompetence and outright lies, we're going to get a very big one...maybe even a nuclear one.

Tell me, jimmac: Do you share no concern about our current policies and actions on Iran, Syria and North Korea? Take politics out of it for a second. Do you think our sanctions and actions on Iran are working? Have our responses to North Korea prompted less threats and slowed/stopped their nuclear program, or the opposite? Do you share the concern the pool reporter asked Obama the other day...that saying chemical weapons use is a "red line" and then not following through once they've been used sends a message that we don't mean what we say?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #17 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Didn't we side with Islamic radicals in Afghanistan against Russia? How well did that turn out? Great idea to train and arm your enemy to be.

 

Of course. In the 1980s, Reagan equated the Afghan war lords/mujahadin (those who eventually became the Taliban Government) - with our Founding Fathers, re. freedom fighting. The CIA supplied them with $billions in weapons, equipment, logistical advice etc. etc. and kept a database of the recipients of this US taxpayer funded program - called 'al Qaeda' - the database, or "The Base".

 

When the Soviets were defeated in Afghanistan and the commies couldn't be sold as a threat to scare/manipulate the US people any longer, a replacement was needed. The Afghan Islamists were no longer politically useful so were consigned to the 'out box', until a bunch of enterprising dual US- Israeli expansionists (neoconservatives) in DC think tanks got the idea to replace Communism with Islam as a permanent enemy to justify endless war and the continuation of militarism as the primary component of the US economy.

 

Regardless of ethics or lack thereof, it was a brilliant piece of psychological/political ploy - but the proponents were in the political backwaters during the Clinton years. All that was required, was for the "neocon" cartel to acquire power in government - which they did, by hook and/or crook in November 2000, and then gain public support for their *published* agenda of endless mid east wars, huge increases in military spending, and more. Then, right on cue, 9/11 happened - mission accomplished and the guy in the cave and those 19 rookie minions on the planes instantly became the greatest allies the neocon program could have ever imagined... and 'al Qaeda' was sold to the psychologically flattened "shocked and awed" public as the big bad new enemy, to be accompanied by a new endless "concept war" (the war on terrorism) which had neither borders nor any definition of victory.

 

Al Qaeda is still sold by the media as the boogeyman to fear, but in international affairs, they appear to be more an ally - just as they were in the 1980s: NATO/US operations in Libya were firmly allied to al Qaeda, and there is a parallel situation ongoing in Syria, where Western supported Syrian rebels fighting Assad's government are firmly embedded with al Qaeda.

 

As you said, al Qaeda became the convenient whipping-boy/bete noir, "the enemy", but are they really the enemy? Depends who you ask.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #18 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


Yeah, I missed the part where I called for war. In fact, I seem to remember expressing serious concern that Obama's actions will lead to war. What is it that liberals and leftists don't understand about "Peace Through Strength." 
 
 
 
I don't know a single person who said it would be quick and easy, nor does Iraq really have much to do with this thread. This isn't a call for war...it's a discussion of which policies lead to war, and which don't. It's my contention that the Obama approach is dangerous and will lead to armed conflict. I do not want armed conflict. But I think that if we stay on the current path of weakness, naïveté, incompetence and outright lies, we're going to get a very big one...maybe even a nuclear one.

Tell me, jimmac: Do you share no concern about our current policies and actions on Iran, Syria and North Korea? Take politics out of it for a second. Do you think our sanctions and actions on Iran are working? Have our responses to North Korea prompted less threats and slowed/stopped their nuclear program, or the opposite? Do you share the concern the pool reporter asked Obama the other day...that saying chemical weapons use is a "red line" and then not following through once they've been used sends a message that we don't mean what we say?

 

Perhaps the notion of "peace through strength" has sunk into the the governments of, for example, Iran and North Korea, in their desire (or alleged desire in Iran's case) to acquire or develop nuclear weapons. If you have nukes, you tend to get respect - Pakistan tested its first nuclear weapon in the mid 1990s, and by joining the nuclear club, has been left alone in the 'endless war' program pursued by Bush and Obama. Syria just bought a Russian missile defense system to counter or deter military moves by its aggressive neighbor. Yes, if you are militarily strong, it tends to deter being bullied by the big guy on the global playground...which, by default, picks on weak, relatively poorly defended nations, especially if they have a natural resource that the bully needs, or wishes to control.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #19 of 101

Again why did 4 generals get fired under the Obama administration? This happened after the Bengazi incident.
 

post #20 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He just doesn't remember what happened when we did that last time. And you know we didn't declare war then but we were there for more than a decade.

Yeah, I missed the part where I called for war. In fact, I seem to remember expressing serious concern that Obama's actions will lead to war. What is it that liberals and leftists don't understand about "Peace Through Strength." ?

Quote:
All the conservative types around here at the time were saying it was a quick in and out sort of situation. I said at the time it was more like Vietnam and we would be tied up there for years. In the end no WMD and many lives and dollars spent but good ol' dubbya and the hawks got their way ( and yes SDW some others were suckered in by the president in the process ). As the occupation progressed the reason we invaded kept changing as justification was absent.

 The age of smoke and mirrors is over. It's not the early part of this century anymore and cooler heads prevail.

I don't know a single person who said it would be quick and easy, nor does Iraq really have much to do with this thread. This isn't a call for war...it's a discussion of which policies lead to war, and which don't. It's my contention that the Obama approach is dangerous and will lead to armed conflict. I do not want armed conflict. But I think that if we stay on the current path of weakness, naïveté, incompetence and outright lies, we're going to get a very big one...maybe even a nuclear one.

Tell me, jimmac: Do you share no concern about our current policies and actions on Iran, Syria and North Korea? Take politics out of it for a second. Do you think our sanctions and actions on Iran are working? Have our responses to North Korea prompted less threats and slowed/stopped their nuclear program, or the opposite? Do you share the concern the pool reporter asked Obama the other day...that saying chemical weapons use is a "red line" and then not following through once they've been used sends a message that we don't mean what we say?

 

Quote:


I don't know a single person who said it would be quick and easy,

Someone who used to be a mod and a Bush supporter ( until he saw the light ). He hasn't been here for a long time but I found new respect for this guy after he saw that what Bush was doing was more harm than good. I'm trying to remember the guy's handle. I seem to remember he was from Texas. When I do I'll post it here.

 

Ps. I seem to remember his name was " grover " or something like that. And he wasn't the only one. I argued at the time it was nonsense and that we'd be there for years just like Vietnam. 03' was a long time ago.

 

As for the rest it's nonsense. Exactly the type that'll get us embroiled in another unnecessary conflict.


Edited by jimmac - 5/12/13 at 5:34pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #21 of 101

Fellowship Church iBook?  He'd match with the Bush transformation and the Texas bit.  But the grove part would be Groverat I believe.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #22 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Fellowship Church iBook?  He'd match with the Bush transformation and the Texas bit.  But the grove part would be Groverat I believe.

That was his name! Thank you!

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #23 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Someone who used to be a mod and a Bush supporter ( until he saw the light ). He hasn't been here for a long time but I found new respect for this guy after he saw that what Bush was doing was more harm than good. I'm trying to remember the guy's handle. I seem to remember he was from Texas. When I do I'll post it here.

Ps. I seem to remember his name was " grover " or something like that. And he wasn't the only one. I argued at the time it was nonsense and that we'd be there for years just like Vietnam. 03' was a long time ago.

As for the rest it's nonsense. Exactly the type that'll get us embroiled in another unnecessary conflict.
Wait...it's all nonsense? LOL. You're in the same bubble Obama is. Even the elite liberal media is all over Benghazi (and the IRS and AP stories). Things are about to get very big.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #24 of 101

Hey SDW, you're the guy who started this thread, right? Here's what you said about Obama last year:

 

Quote:
 
I don't think I've been "brash."  I do think that Romney will win, and probably with over 300 electoral votes. Romney wins going away.

 

Why should anyone believe anything you have to say about Obama? 

 

And, judging from the number of your posts about Obama, please get a life. You lost. You were absolutely OWNED in that election thread.

 

Absolutely NOTHING you said in that thread came true. NOTHING.

 

How does it feel to be wrong ALL THE FREAKING TIME? LOL... Frankly, since Steve Jobs and most of Apple's employees are flaming liberals who support gay rights and supported Obama, the real question is this:

 

Why aren't you boycotting Apple? The reality of life that this country is packed to the gills with educated, liberal Democrats who are the overwhelming majority in all American walks of life that are leading edge. What are the red states doing, other than sucking most of the welfare money and tax dollars out of the blue states?

 

If Steve Jobs ever read your political threads on Apple Insider and talked with you personally, he would give you a VERBAL THRASHING -- a dressing-down that would be absolutely traumatic for you as well as richly deserved. He would shatter your world - along with its backward thinking.

 

You Republicans just don't get it -- you haven't since the late 19th century. You believe Obama is a traitor, an impostor, and an evil man. Absurd.

 

Just SHUT UP AND TELL THE TRUTH:

What If our guys in Benghazi were not killed -- but taken hostage. And to get them out, Obama airlifts THOUSANDS of US missiles and other WMD's -- literally dozens of planeloads of weapons that would later be used to kill Americans. WHAT WOULD YOU SAY - because your hero Reagan did exactly that. He took weapons we taxpayers paid for, and SENT THOSE WEAPONS to the ENEMY TO BE USED AGAINST US AND ISRAEL!

 

What if Obama started a secret war in Kenya. Totally behind Congress' and the American peoples' backs. What if Obama had a multi-billion dollar slush fund to fund this war, and the guys he funded were killing Christians? Furthermore, what if the Kenyan warlords that Obama backed also had a side business where they were flying drugs into the U.S.?

 

What if Obama had the DEA and Border Patrol stand down so CIA airplanes full of drugs would hit our cities and destroy millions of lives? After all, we can't arrest our Contra - I mean Kenyan allies, right? They're fighting for us over in Africa. They're "Freedom Fighters" right? Fact: Reagan's Contras flew millions of tons of drugs into the US and we turned a blind eye because they were fighting Communists for us in Central and South America...

 

Or did you forget about a little thing called "Iran Contra" where a couple dozen members of REAGAN'S ADMINISTRATION WENT TO JAIL. Do you remember that our National Security Advisor tried to commit suicide? 

 

How's that for a freakin' scandal? 

 

How bout 9-11, where Bush was warned that bin Laden planned to FLY AIRPLANES INTO BUILDINGS -- and BUSH WENT ON A MONTH-LONG VACATION! So did Cheney!

 

While you clowns boil with rage over Obama's daughters taking a summer vacation - where were you then? When 3000 Americans died?

 

WHAT ABOUT KATRINA? 2000 dead.

WHAT ABOUT THE US ATTORNEYS SCANDAL - where Republican DOJ employees were using their positions to start trumped-up DOJ investigations of Democratic Congressmen to turn elections?

 

WHAT ABOUT THE CIA EMPLOYEE THEY OUTED? Don't talk to me about Armitage; bottom line - Bush and Cheney ruined her career and destroyed the CIA front company she worked for. DOZENS of CIA agents in the field had to be CALLED HOME because the front company was named in the press as per their instruction! And guess what, that's why Scooter Libby WENT TO JAIL.

 

And you guys are nuts over Benghazi - after ALL OF THIS S--T?

 

What about the Iraq War, where thousands of our troops died FOR NO WMD'S and Bush makes a video of him running around the White House, searching for WMD's under the Oval Office desk, and under his bed? If Obama pulled something like that...

 

Wow, I can't imagine what the right wing reaction would be. I can't imagine how you'd feel if Obama sent a couple thousand Marines to Syria tomorrow, to help "monitor" that war, stuck them at the end of an easily accessible runway/airport area, relatively undefended, and then watch in horror as 250 of our Marines are blown away by a truck bomb.

 

What if all that happened tomorrow, in Syria - 250 MARINES DEAD - and Obama just pulled everyone back home and CUT AND RAN?

 

How would you react? Of course, Reagan did exactly this when 250 of our Marines were deployed - with no mission - to Lebanon in the 1980's. They died, Reagan cut and run.

 

Not a peep from you Republicans. You people make me sick.

 

A word to the wise: Can the threads about Obama and start with a fresh thread (1 each) for the many Republican high crimes over which numerous people have been jailed over the years.

 

I know for a fact that if the USA was hit by a terror attack, and 3000 died, and Obama was warned months ago - and took a literal 30 day vacation to his house in Chicago, and his top advisors were warned of this attack -- in writing -- you and all of your ilk would literally call for Obama's execution. There would be no end to hearings, investigations, and probably riots in the streets.

 

Not a word from you when Bush and Cheney FOUGHT AGAINST A 9/11 INVESTIGATION. Republicans FOUGHT the idea of a Homeland Security Dept. NO QUESTIONS when the 9-11 debris was shipped out and destroyed! Bin Laden family members were flown out of the US under cover of darkness - by Presidential directive. No questions when the Iraq War was started based on lies, and the wartime contracts were given to Cheney's former employer, Halliburton. No questions when Halliburton's shoddy work resulted in billions of taxpayer money wasted, troops electrocuted in showers due to faulty wiring, tons of screws and handtools found buried in the desert, no questions about billions disappearing from the US embassy in Baghdad, no questions about the numerous embassy attacks on Bush's watch which resulted in 60 people dead - not 4 - and on and on and on.

 

Not to mention the REAL STAND DOWN, which occurred when, on 9-11, after everyone in the world saw we were under attack --- OUR JET PLANES WERE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. The FAA tapes - DESTROYED. FAA employees admitting to the 911 Commission that tapes were destroyed. A plane full of innocent Americans found in a million pieces all over Pennsylvania - while Cheney admitted he had an F-16 tailing that plane with ORDERS TO SHOOT DOWN. Did he or didn't he?

 

No questions. No investigations.

 

We, the American people, have had ENOUGH. AND THAT'S WHY YOU WILL NEVER SEE THE PRESIDENCY AGAIN.

 

Stuff it!!!!!

post #25 of 101
Quote:

Stuff it!!!!!

 

Oh, look. Another "my team is better than your team" post.

 

This mentality is the real problem. Until people stop getting wrapped up in the contrived 2 party false dilemma, things will never really improve.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #26 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Oh, look. Another "my team is better than your team" post.

 

This mentality is the real problem. Until people stop getting wrapped up in the contrived 2 party false dilemma, things will never really improve.

It's not a false dilemma when the voting system makes two parties a mathematical certainty, and voting for a third party has a spoiler effect.  Change the voting system, change the two party system.  It's simple as that.  It's just math.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #27 of 101

* Waits for BR to explain a) how "the voting system makes two parties a mathematical certainty", and b) what changes would result in a system wherein two parties do not dominate. *

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer1138 View Post

Hey SDW, you're the guy who started this thread, right? Here's what you said about Obama last year:

 

Quote:
 
I don't think I've been "brash."  I do think that Romney will win, and probably with over 300 electoral votes. Romney wins going away.

 

Why should anyone believe anything you have to say about Obama? 

 

And, judging from the number of your posts about Obama, please get a life. You lost. You were absolutely OWNED in that election thread.

 

Absolutely NOTHING you said in that thread came true. NOTHING.

 

How does it feel to be wrong ALL THE FREAKING TIME? LOL... Frankly, since Steve Jobs and most of Apple's employees are flaming liberals who support gay rights and supported Obama, the real question is this:

 

Why aren't you boycotting Apple? The reality of life that this country is packed to the gills with educated, liberal Democrats who are the overwhelming majority in all American walks of life that are leading edge. What are the red states doing, other than sucking most of the welfare money and tax dollars out of the blue states?

 

If Steve Jobs ever read your political threads on Apple Insider and talked with you personally, he would give you a VERBAL THRASHING -- a dressing-down that would be absolutely traumatic for you as well as richly deserved. He would shatter your world - along with its backward thinking.

 

The rest of the rant I'll ignore but as SDW's predictions for Obama were the same as Steve Job's predictions for Obama.

 

Steve tells Obama you're heading for a one term presidency.

 

Quote:

Jobs' Meeting With Obama

Jobs, who was known for his prickly, stubborn personality, almost missed meeting President Obama in the fall of 2010 because he insisted that the president personally ask him for a meeting. Though his wife told him that Obama "was really psyched to meet with you," Jobs insisted on the personal invitation, and the standoff lasted for five days. When he finally relented and they met at the Westin San Francisco Airport, Jobs was characteristically blunt. He seemed to have transformed from a liberal into a conservative.

 

"You're headed for a one-term presidency," he told Obama at the start of their meeting, insisting that the administration needed to be more business-friendly. As an example, Jobs described the ease with which companies can build factories in China compared to the United States, where "regulations and unnecessary costs" make it difficult for them.

Jobs also criticized America's education system, saying it was "crippled by union work rules," noted Isaacson. "Until the teachers' unions were broken, there was almost no hope for education reform." Jobs proposed allowing principals to hire and fire teachers based on merit, that schools stay open until 6 p.m. and that they be open 11 months a year.

 

So stuff it yourself.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #29 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Oh, look. Another "my team is better than your team" post.

This mentality is the real problem. Until people stop getting wrapped up in the contrived 2 party false dilemma, things will never really improve.

Not people but our elected officials. Nothing bad happens if we get into a Dem vs. Rep debate but real damage happens when that fight happens in the House and Senate.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #30 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Not people but our elected officials. Nothing bad happens if we get into a Dem vs. Rep debate but real damage happens when that fight happens in the House and Senate.

 

So then you're not an advocate of the division of power among the parties and believe that, what, the minority party should simply capitulate to the majority party?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #31 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The rest of the rant I'll ignore but as SDW's predictions for Obama were the same as Steve Job's predictions for Obama.

Steve tells Obama you're heading for a one term presidency.


So stuff it yourself.

And SJ was wrong, about the one term thing. The problem with the education idea is what's to stop a principal from firing a good teacher because he/she doesn't like him/her? It should fall on the Bd of Ed and not one person.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #32 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

The problem with the education idea is what's to stop a principal from firing a good teacher because he/she doesn't like him/her? It should fall on the Bd of Ed and not one person.

 

What's to stop that from happening anywhere? What Utopian world do you live in?

 

Perhaps the principal would not fire the teacher because they are good and effective despite not liking them? Wouldn't they?

 

What would be the point of even having the principal if all firing decisions are handled by the BoE?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #33 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

What's to stop that from happening anywhere? What Utopian world do you live in?

Perhaps the principal would not fire the teacher because they are good and effective despite not liking them? Wouldn't they?

It happens everywhere all the time. Never said it didn't.

We would hope the principal would act like that.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #34 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It happens everywhere all the time. Never said it didn't.

We would hope the principal would act like that.

 

Why wouldn't he act like that? You assume she/he would by default. Why? Why subvert his/her authority by bypassing such decisions to the BoE?

 

I wouldn't say it happens everywhere all the time. That seems to be over-stating it, absent any real evidence.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #35 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer1138 View Post

Maybe you guys will win the popular vote again - in 50 years. LOL

 

jimmac is that you?! Are you still propagating your "cycles" theory which, incidentally, was wrong a mere 2 years later.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #36 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer1138 View Post

Of course, you have NO RESPONSE to Reagan's high crimes and misdemeanors. Nor Bush's.

Typical Republican.

You can dish it out but you certainly can't take it.

So yeah; stuff it.

Maybe you guys will win the popular vote again - in 50 years. LOL

My, my. Quite the little rant you posted earlier. You must have a lot of time on your hands. There isn't much point in going through it all, because it's really just unhinged. Anyone that claims another person is "wrong about everything all the time" clearly has some other issues to deal with. I will say that yes, I was wrong about the election. I fully accept that and have moved on. I've analyzed what happened, my reasoning and the problems with the GOP. More importantly, the election has changed my perspective on the Republican Party and the two party system in general. So, continue to gloat, mock and generally act like an ass. It's fine by me. I'll spend my time discussing actual issues.

Speaking of which, I find it hard to believe that you are defending the Obama administration on, well, anything right now.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #37 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


My, my. Quite the little rant you posted earlier. You must have a lot of time on your hands. There isn't much point in going through it all, because it's really just unhinged. Anyone that claims another person is "wrong about everything all the time" clearly has some other issues to deal with. I will say that yes, I was wrong about the election. I fully accept that and have moved on. I've analyzed what happened, my reasoning and the problems with the GOP. More importantly, the election has changed my perspective on the Republican Party and the two party system in general. So, continue to gloat, mock and generally act like an ass. It's fine by me. I'll spend my time discussing actual issues.

Speaking of which, I find it hard to believe that you are defending the Obama administration on, well, anything right now.

So you finally admit that Romney running one of the most dishonest campaigns in history was incredibly counterproductive to getting elected?  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 101

It is amazing that so many people are *still* locked into the phony Red vs. Blue (Republican vs. Democrat) rigged wrestling match. Each round, to the sound of the bell they come out and slug away at each other, providing a staged spectacle for those who enjoy a good "fight". It is not a genuine fight - they both answer to the same people i.e. the promoters of the match. On the political parallel, the two entrenched parties are like the two sides of the same coin answering to unelected power; the final choice of president is virtually meaningless. We the people get to watch the big scam on television, masquerading as "democracy"; the only part *we* play - the token concession - is the series of fraudulent rigged elections that happen every 4 years to give us the (misguided) impression that the US is a real republic, under a constitution.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #39 of 101

Our vote does not count anyway. 8 years Liberal 8 years Republican. that is the name of the game that is played in politics.
 

post #40 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So you finally admit that Romney running one of the most dishonest campaigns in history was incredibly counterproductive to getting elected?  

 

LOL. You're a true believer, aren't you?   

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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