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Purported next-gen iPhone motherboard part may reveal tweaked camera design

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
A component claimed to be part of the motherboard for an unreleased iPhone shows Apple may employ some internal design changes where the camera lens and flash are housed.

Mobo


The parts were highlighted by French Apple site Nowhereelse on Thursday, and bear a strong resemblance to the corner of the iPhone 5 motherboard. But there are some key differences between the existing phone's component and the newly pictured part claimed to be from an unreleased iPhone model.

The tweaked design can be found on the end of the motherboard that has traditionally powered the camera and flash in previous generation models. But while the ribbons holding the part were two separate pieces inside the iPhone 5, those components have been connected to form one piece in the new component.

With Apple rumored to be working on expanding the iPhone lineup, it's unknown exactly what anticipated device the purported iPhone component could be intended for. Possibilities include an "iPhone 5S" or low-cost iPhone, both of which are expected to be introduced this year. Another option could be a completely different iPhone design, potentially for a 2014 model.

Mobo


Thursday's part leak only shows one corner component of the motherboard, so it does not offer an indication as to what processor or other parts might be included.

The pictured component was obtained by Japanese retailer Moumantai, which was also the source of previous leaks of alleged next-gen iPhone components. One part pictured last month showed an alleged "iPhone 5S" camera lens, along with an unidentified mystery part.

Another component shown by the same retailer claimed to feature the home button of an iPhone 5S, while a third was alleged to be the vibration motor intended for an unreleased Apple handset.
post #2 of 40
It will be interesting to see what Apple has in store for the camera. It is amazing how sophisticated the current iPhone camera system is. I know many folks that get better results from their iPhone than a $1,000 Canon. Obviously 'auto HDR with AI built in and zero knowledge of how to use a camera required' is the reason. If only Apple would put a screen up when folks start to use the video with the iPhone held vertically asking them, 'are you really sure you want to capture video vertically so it won't fit on any screen without looking like you are a total moron?' ...

I wonder if IS (Image Stabilization like higher end Canon and Nikon lenses have) is the next thing, giving extra aperture stops in low light at slower speeds ...?
Edited by digitalclips - 5/9/13 at 6:05am
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post #3 of 40

I am still very disappointed in the quality of low light photos with my iPhone 5. Very disappointed. I would prefer that Apple stop trying to shrink the iPhone with each iteration and actually put in the necessary sensors to have a decent low light camera.

post #4 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It will be interesting to see what Apple has in store for the camera. It is amazing how sophisticated the current iPhone camera system is. I know many folks that get better results from their iPhone than a $1,000 Canon. Obviously 'auto HDR with AI built in and zero knowledge of how to use a camera required' is the reason. If only Apple would put a screen up when folks start to use the video with the iPhone held vertically asking them, 'are you really sure you want to capture video vertically so it won't fit on any screen without looking like you are a total moron?' ...

I wonder if IS (Image Stabilization like higher end Canon and Nikon lenses have) is the next thing, giving extra aperture stops in low light at slower speeds ...?

Smartphone cameras are indeed impressive and the iPhone camera is one of the best. But if someone takes better photos with a smartphone than with a $1000 camera, they're holding it (the camera) wrong.
post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It will be interesting to see what Apple has in store for the camera. It is amazing how sophisticated the current iPhone camera system is. I know many folks that get better results from their iPhone than a $1,000 Canon. Obviously 'auto HDR with AI built in and zero knowledge of how to use a camera required' is the reason. If only Apple would put a screen up when folks start to use the video with the iPhone held vertically asking them, 'are you really sure you want to capture video vertically so it won't fit on any screen without looking like you are a total moron?' ...

I wonder if IS (Image Stabilization like higher end Canon and Nikon lenses have) is the next thing, giving extra aperture stops in low light at slower speeds ...?

 

I'm calling bullshit on some of what you said, anyone that knows anything about photography would be turning in their graves.
No doubt, someone with an iPhone could compose a great photo, i use mine all the time, the sensor in an iPhone doesn't come close to a DSLR or even a decent 4/3rd camera or a mirror-less, its about sensor size, the better & BIGGER the sensor the more light it can capture, better sensitivity, sorry to jump on you there, I'm really into photography & this is a growing miss conception in tech, an iPhone can replace a compact camera right now, i think it has, any camera that is more serious owns an iPhone as far as photo taking, sorry, ill get back on point.
what apple might do is put a larger sensor & lens, which could give a better ISO sensitivity & with better glass, could get some great low light shots, improve day shooting too, at this point, unless they make iPhone thicker, i don't think we will see, real IS or optical zoom, which I'm fine with right now. 

post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jglonek View Post

I am still very disappointed in the quality of low light photos with my iPhone 5. Very disappointed. I would prefer that Apple stop trying to shrink the iPhone with each iteration and actually put in the necessary sensors to have a decent low light camera.

Don't know if Apple has reached that point yet but there's no question the pursuit of thinness will compromise photography.
post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Smartphone cameras are indeed impressive and the iPhone camera is one of the best. But if someone takes better photos with a smartphone than with a $1000 camera, they're holding it (the camera) wrong.
No kidding! LOL. I That was my point.
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post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It will be interesting to see what Apple has in store for the camera. It is amazing how sophisticated the current iPhone camera system is. I know many folks that get better results from their iPhone than a $1,000 Canon. Obviously 'auto HDR with AI built in and zero knowledge of how to use a camera required' is the reason. If only Apple would put a screen up when folks start to use the video with the iPhone held vertically asking them, 'are you really sure you want to capture video vertically so it won't fit on any screen without looking like you are a total moron?' ...

Good points. I'm also amazed at the quality it gives. It really makes pictures that are good enough to keep, and not be considered snap shots.
Quote:
I wonder if IS (Image Stabilization like higher end Canon and Nikon lenses have) is the next thing, giving extra aperture stops in low light at slower speeds ...?

Hmm, that will indeed be needed since we lost the ability to look TTL. I think there will be a smartphone one day that has the flash removed further from the lens than it currently is. That would eliminate/reduce the possibility of red eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jglonek View Post

I am still very disappointed in the quality of low light photos with my iPhone 5. Very disappointed. I would prefer that Apple stop trying to shrink the iPhone with each iteration and actually put in the necessary sensors to have a decent low light camera.

I think your holding it wrong, literally. I keep my hand or the iPhone steady by leaning against something and get good results. The change from f/2.8 > f/2.4 was welcome and needed indeed. Sure, one could hope for even greater aperture, although I don't think they'll get to f/0.95 lol

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post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I'm calling bullshit on some of what you said, anyone that knows anything about photography would be turning in their graves.

No doubt, someone with an iPhone could compose a great photo, i use mine all the time, the sensor in an iPhone doesn't come close to a DSLR or even a decent 4/3rd camera or a mirror-less, its about sensor size, the better & BIGGER the sensor the more light it can capture, better sensitivity, sorry to jump on you there, I'm really into photography & this is a growing miss conception in tech, an iPhone can replace a compact camera right now, i think it has, any camera that is more serious owns an iPhone as far as photo taking, sorry, ill get back on point.

what apple might do is put a larger sensor & lens, which could give a better ISO sensitivity & with better glass, could get some great low light shots, improve day shooting too, at this point, unless they make iPhone thicker, i don't think we will see, real IS or optical zoom, which I'm fine with right now. 

Wow, it's amazing how totally incorrectly my post was interpreted by you ... my bad I guess if it wasn't clear... I said I know people that can take better pictures ... precisely because they are clueless. I am a professional photographer amongst other things and hold a degree in the subject. I will have to study what I wrote and see how I missed being clear. I use Canon IS lenses most of the time and love them, hence my reference to that topic. IS can be achieved either in the lens or the body, the lens is better but the body would be better than nothing.

EDit: I re read what I wrote and can only conclude you didn't read carefully or perhaps English isn't your primary language?
Edited by digitalclips - 5/9/13 at 6:41am
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post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Wow, it's amazing how totally incorrectly my post was interpreted by you ... my bad I guess if it wasn't clear... I said I know people that can take better pictures ... precisely because they are clueless. I am a professional photographer amongst other things and hold a degree in the subject. I will have to study what I wrote and see how I missed being clear.

 

 

Sorry dude, i might have just jumped too quickly onto it, its late here in Australia, haha.

the subject is interesting, gets annoying for people that love photography, i went into a camera shop a few days ago, asking for a bag for my new mirror less, the guy told me there was no point, phones are just as good, that spun me out, his college came back just in time for me to school him, she agreed with me, then i left the shop, haha :)

Photography is something everyone can do now, spending so much on L series lenses & gear is harder to explain to the lay person. 

I might be a tad defensive about it :P 

 

PS, i also re-read your post, i can only conclude that you are full of it, your semi-sarcasm threw me, sarcasm doesn't work in writing very well.
Australians use English similarly to a country you may or may not have heard of....England ;)

Isn't Spanish the main language spoken in Florida? :p 


Edited by Zozman - 5/9/13 at 7:13am
post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

No doubt, someone with an iPhone could compose a great photo, i use mine all the time, the sensor in an iPhone doesn't come close to a DSLR or even a decent 4/3rd camera or a mirror-less, its about sensor size, the better & BIGGER the sensor the more light it can capture, better...

I disagree. The camera doesn't take the picture, you do. That is why some pictures from phones look better than taken with a SLR. Sure, technically, larger sensor is better than smaller, but that has nothing to do with the quality. Professionals use whatever tool available to get the job done, and not blame their equipment.
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post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


I disagree. The camera doesn't take the picture, you do. That is why some pictures from phones look better than taken with a SLR. Sure, technically, larger sensor is better than smaller, but that has nothing to do with the quality. Professionals use whatever tool available to get the job done, and not blame their equipment.

 

No, you are talking about composition of a photo, someone with an iPhone without a doubt could do a better job then someone with a DSLR, however, the iPhone has a lower ceiling when it comes to good quality shots, a DSLR in the right hands can do things that an iPhone simply cant do, this is a fact.

You are getting composition & quality mixed up, how the shot looks, the style, the art to it, VS how accurate, crisp detail, bokeh. 

 

I agree with the best camera is the one you have on you, a great photographer can get great results from an iPhone, however, they can get much better shots with actual photography gear, that's why there is an industry for it. 

post #13 of 40
The advancement of technology makes things not only more improved but smaller. I think sometime in the next 5-10 years we will see smartphone cameras being the same, if not better than the best cameras of today. Take this discovery for instance, http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/08/new-flat-lens-could-revolutionize-cameras-as-we-know-them/. As of right now, I indeed would like to see Apple improve the low-light performance of their cameras, it would give them a huge advantage over other smartphone cameras. I often see smartphone camera photo comparisons and they all seem to lack on low light performance. It will be interesting to see what camera system Apple implements in their next gen. devices and how they will perform in low light conditions.

Also, has anyone seen the rumor that the next iPhone won't be called the, "5S" it will be called, "6". Techradar reported yesterday that Vodafone had an image of, "iPhone 6" in their future inventory system. Whether that is true or not, I guess we will have to wait and see, but it would make sense due to the supposed Fall Apple lineup and the pushback of the release of Apple's product refresh. Who knows at this point.
post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


Sorry dude, i might have just jumped too quickly onto it, its late here in Australia, haha.
the subject is interesting, gets annoying for people that love photography, i went into a camera shop a few days ago, asking for a bag for my new mirror less, the guy told me there was no point, phones are just as good, that spun me out, his college came back just in time for me to school him, she agreed with me, then i left the shop, haha 1smile.gif
Photography is something everyone can do now, spending so much on L series lenses & gear is harder to explain to the lay person. 
I might be a tad defensive about it :P 

PS, i also re-read your post, i can only conclude that you are full of it, your semi-sarcasm threw me, sarcasm doesn't work in writing very well.

Australians use English similarly to a country you may or may not have heard of....England 1wink.gif
Isn't Spanish the main language spoken in Florida? 1tongue.gif 


Nice P.S. I am English born and raised so the local language here in Florida is not really impacting me 1smile.gif. I wasn't being sarcastic even if you were, I was giving two plausible alternative suggestions for your misunderstanding, having re read and seen I was crystal clear (to me anyway lol) . It seems I was spot on with the first one. I always try to consider people being confused a wee bit who may not speak English natively hence my second non-sarcastic give. Having lived and worked in Europe I have become far less assumptive about communications in English being clear. So your first response was ill considered because you are tired, this P.S. is what? You are just in a snippy mood? Joking apart, Australian English may well have a slightly different read on the language and things may appear sarcastic to you when they are not. I use /s when I am. I assure you. 1biggrin.gif

I totally agree with you about comments about the idiocy of iPhones being 'better' than a real camera by a salesman, unless he was able to determine the buyer was ignorant of all photography knowledge in which case although technically incorrect, it would be good advice maybe 1smile.gif

P.S. I wasn't referring to the salesman taking to you ... in case you jump to the wrong inference a third time ...
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post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abobrek View Post

The advancement of technology makes things not only more improved but smaller. I think sometime in the next 5-10 years we will see smartphone cameras being the same, if not better than the best cameras of today. Take this discovery for instance, http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/08/new-flat-lens-could-revolutionize-cameras-as-we-know-them/. As of right now, I indeed would like to see Apple improve the low-light performance of their cameras, it would give them a huge advantage over other smartphone cameras. I often see smartphone camera photo comparisons and they all seem to lack on low light performance. It will be interesting to see what camera system Apple implements in their next gen. devices and how they will perform in low light conditions.

Also, has anyone seen the rumor that the next iPhone won't be called the, "5S" it will be called, "6". Techradar reported yesterday that Vodafone had an image of, "iPhone 6" in their future inventory system. Whether that is true or not, I guess we will have to wait and see, but it would make sense due to the supposed Fall Apple lineup and the pushback of the release of Apple's product refresh. Who knows at this point.

I agree totally about low light, hence my earlier comments about some kind of IS capability however that is accomplished. It may be a new Apple take on the whole topic as I can't see gyroscopic lenses in the near future but with nano technology I wouldn't rule it out some time soon. Ultimately technology has to allow for slower shutter speeds when hand held and that's the best way with minimal noise.

Regarding models; My bet is they are both true rumors, 5s and 6. Apple are no doubt working on the two in parallel but it would seem to me a 5s will be incremental and 6 more dramatic some months later.

Great link by the way. The technology of lenses will change I am sure in the coming years and as you say what we consider state of the art now will be antiquated junk. The knowledge we have now as photographers will always be a help I'm sure but so much will be possible for the novice with no knowledge which these technical leaps.

BTW. Imagine that technology with nano gyros and insect compound like lenses giving RAW the ability to store multiple POVs and DOFs.
Edited by digitalclips - 5/9/13 at 7:44am
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post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


Nice P.S. I am English born and raised so the local language here in Florida is not really impacting me 1smile.gif. I wasn't being sarcastic even if you were, I was giving two plausible alternative suggestions for your misunderstanding, having re read and seen I was crystal clear (to me anyway lol) . It seems I was spot on with the first one. I always try to consider people being confused a wee bit who may not speak English natively hence my second non-sarcastic give. Having lived and worked in Europe I have become far less assumptive about communications in English being clear. So your first response was ill considered because you are tired, this P.S. is what? You are just in a snippy mood? Joking apart, Australian English may well have a slightly different read on the language and things may appear sarcastic to you when they are not. I use /s when I am. I assure you. 1biggrin.gif

I totally agree with you about comments about the idiocy of iPhones being 'better' than a real camera by a salesman, unless he was able to determine the buyer was ignorant of all photography knowledge in which case although technically incorrect, it would be good advice maybe 1smile.gif

P.S. I wasn't referring to the salesman taking to you ... in case you jump to the wrong inference a third time ...

 

I don't really want to have a tit for tat thing going on, honestly, remarks back & forth, no point, I think it was your phrasing.

I added my PS after you edited your post with the extra comments.
 

Haha, the salesman was telling me this about phones built in cameras, i showed him the camera i had, he was probably just trying to make me feel bad (not a good sales ploy). i show him my camera so i can fit a bag, so he tells me a phone would do a better job then a camera that i spent heaps on :p

 

Anyways, i hope the iPhone does get a better camera & stays out of the mega pixel war. 

post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I don't really want to have a tit for tat thing going on, honestly, remarks back & forth, no point, I think it was your phrasing.
I added my PS after you edited your post with the extra comments.

 
Haha, the salesman was telling me this about phones built in cameras, i showed him the camera i had, he was probably just trying to make me feel bad (not a good sales ploy). i show him my camera so i can fit a bag, so he tells me a phone would do a better job then a camera that i spent heaps on 1tongue.gif

Anyways, i hope the iPhone does get a better camera & stays out of the mega pixel war. 

NP. 1smile.gif

Good sleeping down under
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post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jglonek View Post

I am still very disappointed in the quality of low light photos with my iPhone 5. Very disappointed. I would prefer that Apple stop trying to shrink the iPhone with each iteration and actually put in the necessary sensors to have a decent low light camera.

Then obviously you have no sense of history nor experience over the years with silver based systems. The fact that iPhone can take some pictures in low light is pretty amazing. Apple has to try to balance the cameras performance between the normal conditions people would use it it in and low light situations.

It might be your opinion that fewer pixels, enabling better low light performance, is the way to go but that is all it is opinion. Consider what was or is required to get good low light performance with silver based systems. You either used grainy "fast" film of very intense flashes, if you had the wrong film you either took very long exposures or ended up with worst results than can be had with iPhone. Speaking of long exposures I'd love to see real manual control with the iPhone.

There are some interesting possibilities on the horizon. One manufacture has developed a thin capacitor that would allow for Xeon flashes in a cell phone camera. Improvements to the actual detectors are on the way too. In the end cell phone camera technology is evolving very rapidly compared to film technology, you really have nothing to be disappointed with. If you had a sense of perspective you would be shocked at just how good iPhones camera is in the norm.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Smartphone cameras are indeed impressive and the iPhone camera is one of the best. But if someone takes better photos with a smartphone than with a $1000 camera, they're holding it (the camera) wrong.

Baloney!

Taking good pictures is a matter of the operator of the device. I've taken good pictures with my iPhone and blown pictures with my Nikon or RZ. The biggest problem with the iPhone isn't the sensor but rather the lack of control. If you can work within what the iPhone does automatically you can get good results.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

[...] Professionals use whatever tool available to get the job done, and not blame their equipment.

 

I semi-agree with the first part of that sentence and disagree with the second.

 

In my work I am sometimes forced to use equipment that is lower quality or less fully-featured than I would like, but most of the time I make sure that the "tools available" are of high enough quality to satisfy the requirements of the project without significant compromises. Part of my job as a professional is making sure I have the right gear for the job.

 

I don't see any reason not to blame the equipment when it's the reason quality or creative are compromised. Obviously a professional should be able to coax out the best the equipment can provide and work in a way that minimizes the effects of equipment limitations, but, equally obviously, there are limits. When the desired results are not being realized but could be with better equipment, it's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that and examine alternatives.

post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

No, you are talking about composition of a photo, someone with an iPhone without a doubt could do a better job then someone with a DSLR, however, the iPhone has a lower ceiling when it comes to good quality shots, a DSLR in the right hands can do things that an iPhone simply cant do, this is a fact.
Back in the days of film there was no doubt that a medium format camera could out do a SLR but you saw few with any sort of medium format camera around their necks. SLRs back then where considered professional or advanced hobbiest cameras with the bulk of consumer photography going to lesser cameras. So when you compare a cell phone camera, any cell phone camera, you should be comparing it to historical consumer devices. In that regard the iPhone does a far better job than point and shoot 35 mm, 110, disk and other technologies of the silver era.

Your logic makes no sense really, it is like saying a pickup is useless because it can't haul several tons of rocks like a Mac truck.
Quote:
You are getting composition & quality mixed up, how the shot looks, the style, the art to it, VS how accurate, crisp detail, bokeh. 
The only person that is mixed up is you. You are trying to apply professional standards to a device that was never intended to be a professional camera.
Quote:
I agree with the best camera is the one you have on you, a great photographer can get great results from an iPhone, however, they can get much better shots with actual photography gear, that's why there is an industry for it. 
So what is the point? Back in the day I use to shoot 6x7 medium format and would get excellent results but i couldn't slip the camera in my pocket without attracting the attention of the ladies. I really don't think you are being realistic here, iPhone isn't about taking picture that allows you to study the technical results in art class. It is about taking the same sort of pictures that consumers would have taken with consumer grade equipment 20 or 30 years ago. Compared to what became before iPhone is a hands down winner.
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Anyways, i hope the iPhone does get a better camera & stays out of the mega pixel war. 

 

Actually, the case of a camera with no optical zoom strikes me as the best application for as many pixels as possible. That way I can crop the image down to the intended subject while still retaining sufficient resolution for good detail.

post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abobrek View Post

The advancement of technology makes things not only more improved but smaller. I think sometime in the next 5-10 years we will see smartphone cameras being the same, if not better than the best cameras of today. Take this discovery for instance, http://www.wired.com/rawfile/2012/08/new-flat-lens-could-revolutionize-cameras-as-we-know-them/. As of right now, I indeed would like to see Apple improve the low-light performance of their cameras, it would give them a huge advantage over other smartphone cameras. I often see smartphone camera photo comparisons and they all seem to lack on low light performance. It will be interesting to see what camera system Apple implements in their next gen. devices and how they will perform in low light conditions.
There is much potential here, consider:
  1. It may be possible to put XEON flashes in cell phones in the near future.
  2. Sensors and lenses have improved remarkably in only a few years, yet there is plenty of room for improvement.
  3. Quantum dots are being investigated for improving per pixel light capture
  4. Apple could throw the industry a curve and turn the optical system length wise in the camera. This would allow for a longer more complex lens system. However getting the consumer to hold the camera like a twin lends reflex won't be easy.
  5. There is much interest in deformable optics which could give the camera eye like focusing ability.
These are just a few of the possibilities that can lead to improved camera operation and photographic results.
Quote:
Also, has anyone seen the rumor that the next iPhone won't be called the, "5S" it will be called, "6". Techradar reported yesterday that Vodafone had an image of, "iPhone 6" in their future inventory system. Whether that is true or not, I guess we will have to wait and see, but it would make sense due to the supposed Fall Apple lineup and the pushback of the release of Apple's product refresh. Who knows at this point.

Those are all rumors. If Apple implements finger print sensors I could see a change to a new number or even a new naming convention. I'm not all that certain much effort will be put into the camera this go around. WWDC isn't that far away, due to the need to get new tech into developer hands we might see new iPhones around that time or soon after.

In any event it is summer time don't get too hung up on iPhone.
post #24 of 40
This is really frustrating, iPhone isn't a camera for professionals!! I see an entire thread here about how poor the iPhone is when stacked up against professional cameras which makes me really wonder about the posters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I semi-agree with the first part of that sentence and disagree with the second.

In my work I am sometimes forced to use equipment that is lower quality or less fully-featured than I would like, but most of the time I make sure that the "tools available" are of high enough quality to satisfy the requirements of the project without significant compromises. Part of my job as a professional is making sure I have the right gear for the job.
Which is almost impossible for every task that might come your way. That is why there are companies renting equipment to professionals.

Frankly there isn't an industry out there where professionals don't run into limitations with the equipment they own. Unless of course you so narrowly focus your interests that one device covers the subject completely.
Quote:

I don't see any reason not to blame the equipment when it's the reason quality or creative are compromised.
Quality yes creativity no.
Quote:
Obviously a professional should be able to coax out the best the equipment can provide and work in a way that minimizes the effects of equipment limitations, but, equally obviously, there are limits. When the desired results are not being realized but could be with better equipment, it's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that and examine alternatives.
Which is fine for a professional. But honestly guys what does a discussion about professional equipment have to do with an iPhones camera?
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree totally about low light, hence my earlier comments about some kind of IS capability however that is accomplished. It may be a new Apple take on the whole topic as I can't see gyroscopic lenses in the near future but with nano technology I wouldn't rule it out some time soon. Ultimately technology has to allow for slower shutter speeds when hand held and that's the best way with minimal noise.

Regarding models; My bet is they are both true rumors, 5s and 6. Apple are no doubt working on the two in parallel but it would seem to me a 5s will be incremental and 6 more dramatic some months later.

Great link by the way. The technology of lenses will change I am sure in the coming years and as you say what we consider state of the art now will be antiquated junk. The knowledge we have now as photographers will always be a help I'm sure but so much will be possible for the novice with no knowledge which these technical leaps.

BTW. Imagine that technology with nano gyros and insect compound like lenses giving RAW the ability to store multiple POVs and DOFs.

Thanks, Imagine all of that combined with some quantum dots, now that would be a device.
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Actually, the case of a camera with no optical zoom strikes me as the best application for as many pixels as possible. That way I can crop the image down to the intended subject while still retaining sufficient resolution for good detail.

I never quite understood the pixels are bad mentality. Apple isn't making a camera for nocturnal use.

However as important as cropping is to realize the final image I'm still a proponent of zoom technologies. I'm not sure if they will ever be able to realize a viable zoom camera in today's cell phone profiles but it would be a welcomed advancement.
post #27 of 40
The next iPhone has a slightly redesigned PCB. ZOMFG! Surely this is a game-changer!
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I'm calling bullshit on some of what you said, anyone that knows anything about photography would be turning in their graves... 

So they're all dead?

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post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Quality yes creativity no.

 

Both. Using cameras as an example, since that's the focus of the discussion, you can't get a fisheye effect or super shallow DOF without the right lenses, so creative is limited by equipment. A low-quality wireless mic will limit how far from the camera the talent can wander, limiting shot choices. I'm sure there are better examples, but you get the point.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

But honestly guys what does a discussion about professional equipment have to do with an iPhones camera?

 

Responses to those who suggest that skill is the principle limiting factor when using low-quality gear. I use my iPhone camera all the time and am very glad to have it. I just don't agree with the notion that overcoming expertise requirements is a significant influence on those who prefer better equipment when the situation calls for it.


Edited by v5v - 5/9/13 at 3:15pm
post #30 of 40

The HTC One has a f2.0 lens with optical image stabilization and larger pixels. 2μm compared to the iphones 1.4μm. Even though it is only 4 megapixels.

I think Apple needs to at least match the OIS and aperture of the HTC One. I think they should also stick with an 8MP sensor and not go any higher. The quality is already pretty decent for a smart phone and with 4K video coming into the fold in the next couple years, an 8MP sensor will be useful for that. Although it will probably need to be a new sensor that can handle that kind of video output. I do hope we see 4K recording sooner rather than later. Depends on when Apple can get hardware H.265 encoding/decoding chips in iOS devices.

Plus I don't think most people would see dropping back to 4MP as a good marketing move even though HTC is doing ok with it.   
 

post #31 of 40
Rumors start shooting again
post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

No, you are talking about composition of a photo, someone with an iPhone without a doubt could do a better job then someone with a DSLR, however, the iPhone has a lower ceiling when it comes to good quality shots, a DSLR in the right hands can do things that an iPhone simply cant do, this is a fact.
You are getting composition & quality mixed up, how the shot looks, the style, the art to it, VS how accurate, crisp detail, bokeh. 

Actually I didn't get things mixed up, I was trying to make a point that quality is in the eye of the beholder, a smartphone camera can yield to a better picture than a SLR because of, yep, composition, amongst other techniques. But that is because of two different people taking pictures with different equipment. A person without photography expertise and experience will probably take better pictures with a SLR than with an iPhone. So yes, you're right that a SLR can do things a smartphone camera cannot.
Quote:
I agree with the best camera is the one you have on you, a great photographer can get great results from an iPhone, however, they can get much better shots with actual photography gear, that's why there is an industry for it. 

Ah, Chase Jarvis, IIRC. And I agree with him. A bit like the things Ken Rockwell writes, though he's way more controversial than Jarvis.
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post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Taking good pictures is a matter of the operator of the device. I've taken good pictures with my iPhone and blown pictures with my Nikon or RZ. The biggest problem with the iPhone isn't the sensor but rather the lack of control. If you can work within what the iPhone does automatically you can get good results.

Agree; I am able to take really great photo's with my iPhone, but would love for the iPhone to:

1. have an option to change aperture
2. have an option to change shutter speed
3. have a timer
4. have a remote control (app for 2nd iPhone/iPad/iPhone touch or even a dedicated (WiFi/BT/voice [Siri?] enabled) device
5. have the flash be moved further apart from the lens, in order to avoid red eye
6. have the option to change WB, ISO, exposure et cetera
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post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

[...] Professionals use whatever tool available to get the job done, and not blame their equipment.

I semi-agree with the first part of that sentence and disagree with the second.

In my work I am sometimes forced to use equipment that is lower quality or less fully-featured than I would like, but most of the time I make sure that the "tools available" are of high enough quality to satisfy the requirements of the project without significant compromises. Part of my job as a professional is making sure I have the right gear for the job.

I don't see any reason not to blame the equipment when it's the reason quality or creative are compromised. Obviously a professional should be able to coax out the best the equipment can provide and work in a way that minimizes the effects of equipment limitations, but, equally obviously, there are limits. When the desired results are not being realized but could be with better equipment, it's perfectly reasonable to acknowledge that and examine alternatives.

Good points, good post. So yes, I agree. And if it's a persons' profession than indeed, try using the best tool for the job.

I agree with another poster here who writes that we're comparing a smartphone camera to a dedicated (D)SLR, a mistake I made earlier as well.
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post #35 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Anyways, i hope the iPhone does get a better camera

Actually, the case of a camera with no optical zoom strikes me as the best application for as many pixels as possible. That way I can crop the image down to the intended subject while still retaining sufficient resolution for good detail.

True, but instead of wanting to zoom in I just walk up closer (maybe I should end that sentence with a ¡ because I understand what you're saying) Anyhoo, the composition changes when changing the distance to the subject, so for an iPhone more pixels or a larger sensor would be great. Though there will be people complaining about the large (megabytes) pictures will become. An optional setting for that would be feasible.
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post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I'm calling bullshit on some of what you said, anyone that knows anything about photography would be turning in their graves... 

So they're all dead?

-1. Unless you were being ¡, in which case I was expecting a ¡

edit: sorry for all the single posts; I just have a difficult time doing multiple replies in a single post because I lose the overview when typing my replies.
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post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

6. have the option to change WB, ISO, exposure et cetera

 

Despite the iPhone capturing video that looks better than it has any right to, I just can't stand using it because of the constantly shifting white balance. I would much rather deal with the consequences of a setting that's not ideal for every angle than put up with the abrupt, annoying color shifts every time the lighting changes a little. It's maddening. I'm not asking for presets or threshold adjustments -- I'm fully aware of how amazing it is to have HD video capability in a phone AT ALL -- I just wanna be able to LOCK IT so it doesn't keep readjusting on the fly.

post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Your logic makes no sense really, it is like saying a pickup is useless because it can't haul several tons of rocks like a Mac truck.
The only person that is mixed up is you.

 

Huh?, I don think im the 'only' person mixed up here :p

& i think you missed my point, i use my iPhones camera, all the time, its always with me, however, when i go out to take photos (I do regularly) i take my DSLR & tripod with me.

I'm not telling everyone to get a DSLR, for most people, the iPhones camera will be just fine, happy snaps & for the people that have the skill, some good pics can be taken, I shouldnt have to say this, who would tell a photographer to swap his DSLR for an iPhone?.

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Actually, the case of a camera with no optical zoom strikes me as the best application for as many pixels as possible. That way I can crop the image down to the intended subject while still retaining sufficient resolution for good detail.

 

For sure, sounds good, the problem is, if you up the mega pixels without upgrading the sensor (Mega pixels do not equate to quality, just scale) then the picture will have more noise & colours will smudge, so if you try to zoom in, it doent look so good.

so if they up the sensor, the lens & then up the megapixels, it would do a better job at zooming, thats what the nokia camera phone thing is doing (41mp)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post


So they're all dead?

Hahaha, no, just my sense or humour, making things sound really dramatic is funny to me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


I was trying to make a point that quality is in the eye of the beholder

 

Why do people keep making stuff up & passing it on as something that could be true?, quality isn't as subjective as you think, its the standard that things could be based (in photography) art is subjective, the eye of the beholder.....colours aren't, they are either accurate or they aren't, the clarity of the photo isnt in the eye of the beholder, its either sharp or out of focus, catch my drift?.

I checked this, just because i was curious about what i wrote here.

 

Qual·i·ty

 

Noun
  1. The standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something: "quality of life".
  2. General excellence of standard or level: "quality beers".

 

 

Art

 

 

Noun
  1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
  2. Works produced by such skill and imagination.

 

 

 

Just for fun

 

clar·i·ty

 

Noun
  1. The quality of being clear, in particular.
  2. The quality of coherence and intelligibility.

 

 

 

Not trying to be a dick here, I just think too many people are miss informed, if it isnt in your field of interest, i get why people don't know too much about it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
Ah, Chase Jarvis, IIRC. And I agree with him. A bit like the things Ken Rockwell writes, though he's way more controversial than Jarvis.

Yeah for sure, Not sure how if or how people could dissagree with what Chase says.

Seems like a real cool guy too, watch the camera challenge he did with Kai, its pretty rad.

 

Ken Rockwell, has some good points.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

Despite the iPhone capturing video that looks better than it has any right to, I just can't stand using it because of the constantly shifting white balance. I would much rather deal with the consequences of a setting that's not ideal for every angle than put up with the abrupt, annoying color shifts every time the lighting changes a little. It's maddening. I'm not asking for presets or threshold adjustments -- I'm fully aware of how amazing it is to have HD video capability in a phone AT ALL -- I just wanna be able to LOCK IT so it doesn't keep readjusting on the fly.

 

Using the standard iPhone camera app, If you touch the screen & hold on it for a few seconds (on the area you want to lock the auto focus, exposure), it should be able to lock that for you, give it a shot, It works in pics, not sure about video?.


Edited by Zozman - 5/9/13 at 7:50pm
post #39 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

For sure, sounds good, the problem is, if you up the mega pixels without upgrading the sensor (Mega pixels do not equate to quality, just scale) then the picture will have more noise & colours will smudge, so if you try to zoom in, it doent look so good.

 

I didn't know that. Thanks! Of course, having that information isn't going to make a lick of difference to the quality of my photos, because I'm just going to continue using whatever happens to be built in to my phone, good or bad, because it's handy! If Apple includes a bad camera, I'll get bad camera artifacts. If Apple includes a gooder camera, I'll defeat the benefit with incompetence and laziness!

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Using the standard iPhone camera app, If you touch the screen & hold on it for a few seconds (on the area you want to lock the auto focus, exposure), it should be able to lock that for you, give it a shot, It works in pics, not sure about video?.

 

Woah, dude, you're like an iPhone camera Ninja! I had no idea I could "hold" rather than just "touch!" Kewl.

 

On my old iPhone 4 a message appears on the screen that says "AE/AF Lock" but no mention of WB. It may be that it's locked too and just not explicitly stated. I'll have to try it out near a window or somewhere the color temperature of the light will change as I move around. Thanks!

post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

So they're all dead?
Hahaha, no, just my sense or humour, making things sound really dramatic is funny to me.

LOL
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I was trying to make a point that quality is in the eye of the beholder

Why do people keep making stuff up & passing it on as something that could be true?, quality isn't as subjective as you think, its the standard that things could be based (in photography) art is subjective, the eye of the beholder.....colours aren't, they are either accurate or they aren't, the clarity of the photo isnt in the eye of the beholder, its either sharp or out of focus, catch my drift?.

You put it down way better than can. I'll just say: 'props to you' and I'll do a lame thing and say English is not my native language.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Ah, Chase Jarvis, IIRC. And I agree with him. A bit like the things Ken Rockwell writes, though he's way more controversial than Jarvis.
Yeah for sure, Not sure how if or how people could dissagree with what Chase says.
Seems like a real cool guy too, watch the camera challenge he did with Kai, its pretty rad.

Ken Rockwell, has some good points.

Thanks for this; just watched a funny vid of him using a LEGO camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX76k-chflo
Quote:
Using the standard iPhone camera app, If you touch the screen & hold on it for a few seconds (on the area you want to lock the auto focus, exposure), it should be able to lock that for you, give it a shot, It works in pics, not sure about video?.

Like Agent Cooper used to say: "ACES"
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