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Microsoft wants iTunes for Windows 8; Apple not interested - Page 2

post #41 of 133
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post
I would argue that based on the way they treat iWork at Apple and the customers that have moved to it, it's easy to believe that the entire iWork project is just a placeholder until MS caves and gives them Office.  They devote almost no resources to iWork at all.  

 

Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?

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There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #42 of 133
This is easy, hey Microsoft give us office on iPad. Okay, you give us iTunes. Okay, done.
post #43 of 133

For Apple, it is a revenue decision.  Will they make enough money from the 100 or so users on the new OS?

post #44 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Does Apple actually make money off iTunes? How do you make money distributing someone else's content?

Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.
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post #45 of 133
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.

 

These two sentences don't help one another. You say the first as though it would be "obvious" that Apple is making money, but then state that they hadn't been.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #46 of 133
As someone that's unlucky enough to have Windows 8 on my Mac I can report that it is indeed a complete basket case of an operating system with severe multi-personality disorder.

What I don't understand is why Microshite seems intent on pushing regular desktop users towards using the woeful "Metro" apps. Even their own examples make Vista look stunning.
post #47 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.

It's making margins of about 20%. They could make a deal with Microsoft to reduce fees on either end.
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post #48 of 133

This whole iTunes for Office swap that everyone is speculating on does not mean much.

 

Apple gets zero benefit from working on an iTunes for Windows 8 touch devices - there is insignificant marketshare for these devices, so Apple gains almost nothing from offering the product on Windows 8 touch. If this was just a case of recompiling the existing iTunes code to ARM, it would probably make sense, but Apple needs to do a lot more than that.

 

For MS however, not offering Office on the iPad is a massive blunder. iPad is a very significant product, and by not offering Office for iPad, MS risks that there will be tens of millions of users who use the iWork products - simply because there is no other option. At some point, if there is a critical mass around iWork, that could actually be a costly problem for MS. The difference between iWork and Office is not so much about usability, functionality, performance or anything like that. It is quite simply the fact that everyone has Office, and very few people have iWork. So if you create a doc in iWork, and send it to someone, there is a big risk that the recipient might not be able to view it, because she doesn't have iWork.

 

And of course, there is the small matter of missing out on approximately $50 of revenue from literally 10's of millions of tablets!

post #49 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

iTunes is a revenue stream for Apple.  They're crazy not to put it there  I could easily see Amazon throwing something together to throw on Metro to sell music and movies if the opening is there.

Most iPhone users are Windows users. iPod users too.

It seems to be a lack of expertise.

 

No really, they can buy everything on their iOS devices.

 

The problem is: Apple should do it so Android users still give some sort of revenue to Apple and find themselves tied to Apple. However, Apple should put everything on their huge software list first: iWork, Safari, mail, OSX, icloud, Pro-apps, etc.

post #50 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Obviously there is a windows team in Apple. However you're probably right iTunes is probably in MFC ( or some mid level apple code which compiles to MFC and OS X - Carbon?)

Not in .Net.

 

iTunes uses OS X frameworks (CoreFoundation, et al) ported to Win32 and MFC.  Consider that iTunes has been available for Windows since 2003.

 

So yeah, big undertaking to make it Metro.  Bigger yet undertaking to make it tablet-friendly.  For how much revenue (especially now that you can do almost everything iTunes can do on the iOS device itself)?  Not worth it IMO.

 
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post #51 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

These two sentences don't help one another. You say the first as though it would be "obvious" that Apple is making money, but then state that they hadn't been.

I was answering his questions except I switched the order. Apple has always made money it just equaled their cost. Don't equate profit with making money. His question should've been "How can one profit distributing someone else's content?"
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post #52 of 133
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Don't equate profit with making money.

 

"Hey, Ted, how's the business going?"
"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"

"Er…"

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #53 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Have you forgotten the 30% cut? If my memory is correct Apple was breaking even until recently.
Isn't that for the AppStore? And after you factor in all the costs of running the App Store how much of that 30 % is profit?
post #54 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

You're being as misleading as the headline. ITunes for Windows 8 non-touch is really iTunes for Windows 7.

is that the same way that itunes for mountain lion is really itunes for lion which is really itunes for snow leopard? i mean, it's all itunes 11.
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post #55 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Hey, Ted, how's the business going?"

"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"
"Er…"

Don't be an idiot. Nobody who's breaking even is going to describe as "making money hand over fist", but one does have to make money to the point that they're breaking even. Take a person that lives paycheck to paycheck, they're making money except it almost all goes to their living expenses so at the end of the month they have little in thefform of cash but they ate, paid their rent, bought clothes, etc
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post #56 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Isn't that for the AppStore? And after you factor in all the costs of running the App Store how much of that 30 % is profit?

The 30% started with music and was then applied to apps.
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post #57 of 133

The entire paradigm of WIndows 8 is a clusterfuck. Having multiple apps, one for the desktop mode, one for Metro, is just messy. You're never really sure which one to use. I have desktop skype and metro skype installed, and they both "ring" and send me notifications simultaneously.. it's just weird. I know I can uninstall one, but the fact that this is even allowed to happen with the OS Microsoft has envisioned, and the direction things should go,  is just ridiculous. Apple is absolutely right in not wanting to invest resources creating a "metro" version of iTunes. I don't think the development and maintenance efforts will be worth it, nor do I think Apple wants to design ANYTHING following the metro design paradigms. iTunes has an identical interface in both OSX and Windows, they're not going to make a separate one that looks completely different for Metro. I don't see them contributing anything to Metro, no should they. 

post #58 of 133
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Don't be an idiot.

 

I dunno, I'd say that about someone who didn't know what making money meant.

 

You know. Making money. As in a profit. Money. They can keep. Money they didn't have previously. 

 

Sort of the definition of the word 'making'.

 


Take a person that lives paycheck to paycheck… …almost all…

 

See. Profit. Even you admit it.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #59 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?

Again- like normal- you quote only a fraction of the post so you can make an "Apple does no wrong" post- and leave out everything else that was dead on.

 

If they make the best presentation software available (that's debatable, but for sake of argument- lets say it is)- and afterwards devote no resources to it- does that make his statement any less true?

 

But of course, you try to find that one tiny bit of hope to cling to (keynote) and ignore the rest of his post that mentioned word and specific examples of how to improve it.  Lets not even mention numbers which is by and large the most inadequate of all 3 programs.  For the record- I still prefer keynote and pages over office- but that doesn't mean I also don't realize it's completely neglected or see room for improvement.  Take your head out of the ground.

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post #60 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by studentx View Post

How the tables have turned. Now who needs who's help?

 

And Apple should respond in kind. Office for Mac was part of the package that allowed Apple to recover after Jobs' return. Apple should indeed build a touch version of iTunes for Window 8. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Microsoft is going after Android tooth and nail and Apple should do every reasonable thing to help Microsoft succeed in taking Android down a notch or two.

post #61 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Best presentation software available and they "devote no resources to iWork"? How does that work?

 

Okay, hyperbole fail on my part there.  It should be obvious from my previous rants that to me, "iWork" equals "Pages."  But the same comments are definitely true if applied to Numbers, and I would further argue that throwing a few new transitions into Keynote, doesn't qualify as "devoting significant resources to iWork." 

 

Also, Keynote on iOS would qualify as "feature complete" in respect to it's desktop version right from the start, so there isn't much serious work to be done there.  Pages on the other hand, doesn't do some very basic things that it's desktop counterpart does. 

post #62 of 133
If Apple doesn't make iTunes available for Windows 8, with touch UI, then there is a void someone else can come in and fill. Maybe Microsoft could collaborate with a company such as Amazon?
post #63 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

"Hey, Ted, how's the business going?"
"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"

"Er…"

"Hey Walmart- how much revenue did you have?"

"Way more than Apple! Almost 4 times more!"

"Then you obviously are making more money (profit)"- Tallest Skil

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post #64 of 133

I hope they don't do it. That is a can of worms. iTunes on a Windows 8 tablet would also need QuickTime for the tablet and then do you support the App Store for iOS devices that would have to be synced with the real Windows desktop where you plug in your iPhone, etc, etc. What is next iTunes for Windows Mobile? What a nightmare. Apple's ecosystem is getting very integrated with all the iCloud stuff. It just doesn't seem worth it. If you want iTunes on your tablet get an iPad.

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post #65 of 133
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post
"Hey Walmart- how much revenue did you have?"

"Way more than Apple! Almost 4 times more!"

"Then you obviously are making more money (profit)"- Tallest Skil

 

That's the opposite of what I said, but thanks for playing.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #66 of 133

Windows 8 is a joke and a disgrace. Apple shouldn't be wasting any precious resources on making a ridiculous touch screen version of iTunes for Windows. 

post #67 of 133
I don't read too much in Apple's noncommittal response. This is less about "Windows 8 compatibility" than supporting Metro UI.

Metro adoption is in its early stages, so I see no reason for Apple to be an early adopter and appear to drive the adoption of the Metro UI. It may be inevitable for Windows, but then again, is there a Metro UI version of Office?

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post #68 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That's the opposite of what I said, but thanks for playing.

nope

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post #69 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I dunno, I'd say that about someone who didn't know what making money meant.

You know. Making money. As in a profit. Money. They can keep. Money they didn't have previously. 

Sort of the definition of the word 'making'.




See. Profit. Even you admit it.

I just knew that the word almost was gonna bite me in the ass. Yes I fully understood what he meant by "making money" but one always has to make money to get to the point that they're "making money".
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post #70 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's the opposite of what I said, but thanks for playing.

But just as silly.
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post #71 of 133
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
…one always has to make money to get to the point that they're "making money".

 

How silly.


Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
But just as silly.
 

EDIT: Ha! Ironic.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #72 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 
Misleading headline.
Nope.

It's clearly not accurate. What they want is a version of iTunes for the Metro UI in Windows 8. Besides the aforementioned cut from iTS sales can Apple even include an iTS portal in their app since it uses WebKit for the rendering? Wasn't there some issue with Mozilla about not being able to include their Gecko browser for Metro apps delivered through Windows Store?


Windows System Requirements

• PC with a 1GHz Intel or AMD processor and 512MB of RAM
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or later, 32-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8
• 64-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 require the iTunes 64-bit installer
• 400MB of available disk space
• Broadband Internet connection to use the iTunes Store

Edited by SolipsismX - 5/10/13 at 9:53am

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post #73 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

If Apple doesn't make iTunes available for Windows 8, with touch UI, then there is a void someone else can come in and fill. Maybe Microsoft could collaborate with a company such as Amazon?

 

And do what?  Reverse engineer how to interact with iOS devices and the App Store?  Borderline illegal and Apple would most certainly take measures to prevent it (as they have similarly in the past with companies which tried to hijack iTunes to work with their own devices).

 
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post #74 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How silly.
EDIT: Ha! Ironic.

As much as you try you don't have a monopoly on silliness. lol.gif
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post #75 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Hey, Ted, how's the business going?"

"Oh, I'm making money hand over fist! I'm making so much money that I'm breaking even!"
"Er…"

I don't remember what the figures are on actual net profit.

Yeah, a 30% cut doesn't tell us if it's above break-even, or how much above break-even it is. I doubt Apple nets 20%, unless it's 20% of the 30% cut.
post #76 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

It's clearly not accurate. What they want is a version of iTunes for the Metro UI in Windows 8. Besides the aforementioned cut from iTS sales can Apple even include an iTS portal in their app since it uses WebKit for the rendering? Wasn't there some issue with Mozilla about not being able to include their Gecko browser for Metro apps delivered through Windows Store?
Windows System Requirements
• PC with a 1GHz Intel or AMD processor and 512MB of RAM
Windows XP Service Pack 2 or later, 32-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8
• 64-bit editions of Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8 require the iTunes 64-bit installer
• 400MB of available disk space
• Broadband Internet connection to use the iTunes Store

Ha TS! You see even Soli agrees with me.... or at least I think he does.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #77 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


The 30% started with music and was then applied to apps.

I don't believe that Apple ever received a 30% cut on music sales.

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post #78 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

I don't believe that Apple ever received a 30% cut on music sales.

I did a quick search and the answers range from $0.19 per song to 35% per song/album.
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post #79 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


They have it. It's called iWork

iWork is okay but I would love to see MS Office for iOS. I hate, hate Windows Media player and the Metro version is 1,000 times worst, just utter crap. I seriously hope MS fires that department's programming director. It gets worst when there isn't even a decent Metro third party player, sure you have the desktop but come on. I'm keeping my hopes up for a Metro version of VLC, I love the Android version, not so much the iOS version as you can't mount a home server and view the shared folders.

 

All that said I still really like Windows 8, I understand a lot of the complaints people have with it but it works for me. The Metro interface is really fast, there are a lot of useful, intuitive, designed well apps, even despite the lack of a decent media player. I especially like the news apps, CNN, Pulse, Engadget, News 360, look and function just fantastic.

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post #80 of 133
Simply put, Microsoft wants 30% of Apples iTunes sales revenue...
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