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Apple's iPads, iPhones could be subject to new French 'culture tax' - Page 2

post #41 of 145
What is so funny about France is that you never hear French music in France any longer. In Paris, all you hear is American Rock and Roll. In French movies, all you hear is American Rock and Roll.

To hear actual French music, you have to watch an American movie filmed in France.
post #42 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
If the issue at hand pertains to all foreign devices of this type, then the headline is not: 

Apple's iPads, iPhones could be subject to new French 'culture tax.

 

Knowing a lot of your past comments, I take it you haven't looked at the URL for this website in a good long while.

Hey genius,

Please explain to me why when someone posts a headline that says "Workers at Apple's overseas factories commit suicide due to working conditions", it's considered as inaccurate (serving purpose of FUD).  Yet the headline above from AI is just fine with you?  You think it's accurate, not hyperbolic.

post #43 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's sort of like saying you've repaid your debt to your mother for giving you life by taking her to McDonald's for Mother's Day, and you wish she'd stop complaining about the ketchup smears on the seats.

How is it like that even remotely? The American sacrifices over the last hundred years for France are as I said "innumerably" greater than the French contribution in the American Revolutionary War. How is that like taking your mother to McDonalds?
post #44 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

 

Indeed.  I mean, I agree with the intent because typically, when it comes to cultural products like film and music, it's the companies which can lock up the most marketing and distribution channels who end up controlling what gets produced and what doesn't (can't develop a market/following for your products if you can't get them in front of eyes or ears).  However, I don't think that taxing products like iPhones and iPads to fund local culture is the answer.  I prefer less invasive alternatives like designating that cultural product marketing channels in your country like radio, TV, online music stores, etc reserve a certain percentage for local culture.

 

The problem here is not really advertising money, the problem is the size of the addressable markets. Almost every EU country has a different language and Germany with 80 million people  (or approx. 95 million if you add Austria and the, partly German-speaking, Switzerland) is already the largest same language market; most EU countries are a lot smaller. Without money from governments (or government owned TV stations) a lot of valuable movies would not even get the required dubbing.

 

Another point here is that large markets (like the US and Canada) largely shun foreign movies, even if they are good and certainly not expensive. Why was there a need to do a remake of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"? The Swedish original had better actors and was much closer to the book than the poor US remake. Heck. What was wrong with the BBC's "State of Play" series? The Hollywood remake was simply shameful and badly acted. Want to hear the answer? There is barely a more protectionist industry than the US movie industry. They may not consume tax money, but they sure spend tons of US consumer Dollars on the lobbying required to keep their monopoly intact. But the conventional reactionary wisdom is: if there are no governments and taxes involved, it must be fair. Quite naïve.

post #45 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanTiger View Post

Socialism:  If it moves, tax it.
 

I think you are referring to democratic capitalism. Theoretically in socialism there is no taxation. 

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post #46 of 145
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_France

2013 Income tax rates by units (adults?) in a household
From $193,000 to $1,280,000: 45%
Beyond $1,280,000: 75%

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post #47 of 145
The U.S. is looking a lot more like France these days.

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post #48 of 145
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post #49 of 145
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post #50 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Champagne?

Correct, except for grandfathered brands, only a certain kind of wine grown in Champagne region of France can be called Champagne. It's like a trademark given to a region rather than a specific organization. That I've seen, only Europe has this kind of food region branding. Cheeses, alcoholic beverages and dishes can get this kind of protected designation. In one absurdity, a cheese named after a city isn't allowed to be made in that city.
post #51 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think you are referring to democratic capitalism. Theoretically in socialism there is no taxation. 

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but this explanation may be lost on somebody who can't see the difference between socialism and social democracy. France is, by all means, one of the most capitalist countries in the world. People joining unions and organizing demonstrations is a reaction, not a cause. They do not have the best health care in the world and the best public schools, because somebody wanted to give it to them, but because they fought for it.


Edited by dreyfus2 - 5/13/13 at 11:27am
post #52 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunzilla View Post

France IS a joke. Socialism doesn't work. What a disastrous Country.

Our government is not socialist. Oh well. Just a dab, enough to bamboozle the Americans into thinking it is 1smile.gif
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post #53 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protagonistic View Post

Don't be so hard on the French. Just take a look at some of the taxes coming to you soon in the US. All courtesy of the politicians in DC. :-)

Even if we do get more taxes, it will still be no more than a third of what the French pay.
post #54 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

 

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but this explanation may be lost on somebody who can't see the difference between socialism and social democracy. France is, by all means, one of the most capitalist countries in the world. People joining unions and organizing demonstrations is a reaction, not a cause. They do not have the best health care in the world and the best public schools, because somebody wanted to give it to them, but because they fought for it.

 

If France is one of the most "capitalistic" countries, then surely their socialism has had the net effect of blunting it's effectiveness.

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post #55 of 145
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
But the issue is not Applecentric.

 

So? This is an Apple-centric website. What do we care about anyone else?

Would you prefer every headline be like this:


Apple bests Samsung in patent lawsuit. Samsung loses to Apple in patent lawsuit. Microsoft was not involved in the patent lawsuit. Adobe was not involved in the patent lawsuit. Dell was not involved in the patent lawsuit. Google was not involved in the patent lawsuit. HP was not involved in the patent lawsuit. Acer was not involved in the patent lawsuit. Nokia was not involved in the patent lawsuit. GlaxoSmithKline was not involved in the patent lawsuit. RIM was not involved in the patent lawsuit.

 

It's meaningless. We don't care about the other information. If we wanted to know about it, we'd go to websites about those companies.


Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Please explain to me why when someone posts a headline that says "Workers at Apple's overseas factories commit suicide due to working conditions", it's considered as inaccurate (serving purpose of FUD). 

 

Because Apple has no overseas factories, first and foremost. That's probably the biggest issue with that headline.


Yet the headline above from AI is just fine with you?  You think it's accurate, not hyperbolic.

 

Be… cause the iPad and iPhone… could… be subject to the new tax. 

 

Are you really missing something somewhere, or are you just trolling?

 

You could complain if the headline said "Apple's iPads, iPhones could be THE ONLY PRODUCTS subject to new French 'culture tax'", but it doesn't. It says what it says because they're the only products that matter within the context of this website. Sheesh.

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post #56 of 145

I have to wonder how many comments in this thread are based on personal experience.

 

I have worked in Germany and the US and France and Japan and Italy and Switzerland and some other countries.

 

While they are all different, there is much to like about each and every one, if you're open minded.

 

France does have it's fair share of problems, but in my opinion, quality of life, overall, is MUCH better than in the US. Of course, that depends on what quality of life means to you. To me, culture plays a big role in this. Nothing wrong with people refusing money to take control of all aspects of their lives.

post #57 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Of course, if you're an American and not wholly ignorant of your own history, you should show a little gratitude, not to mention respect, to the French. Without their help, the outcome of that little skirmish often referred to here as the Revolutionary War might well have been entirely different.

That's past. France is a country of excesses. It's true that their homegrown culture can't compete. This isn't the first time they've done this. For decades, there have been laws there regulating what percentages of US movies, Tv shows and other entertainment vehicles can be presented.

The problem for the Frence cultural protectionist agencies is that their own people prefer American entertainment to their own. If they must prevent this foreign invasion from taking over by taxing or regulating it, then the effort will fail. What they need is to allow their own people to compete. And if they aren't good enough, well, that's just too bad.
post #58 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Champagne?

And that foiled grass stuff
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post #59 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by jguther View Post

I have to wonder how many comments in this thread are based on personal experience.

 

I have worked in Germany and the US and France and Japan and Italy and Switzerland and some other countries.

 

While they are all different, there is much to like about each and every one, if you're open minded.

 

France does have it's fair share of problems, but in my opinion, quality of life, overall, is MUCH better than in the US. Of course, that depends on what quality of life means to you. To me, culture plays a big role in this. Nothing wrong with people refusing money to take control of all aspects of their lives.

 

A society that is universally socialist and does not rely on the force of government to make the citizens pay into the system? Have at it. However, the reality is there is no such thing. No two people think completely identically and two (or more) people 100% in agreement 100% of the time is an impossibility.

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post #60 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

That is complete nonsense. A lot of the best movies in history had (partial) government funding (I am not talking about Hollywood trash), a lot of the best theatres, orchestras and opera houses throughout Europe could not exist without subsidies, pretty much all art schools and universities outside the US are tax funded...

Typical US tunnel vision.

I don't think you understand the issue here. Taxing everyone in order to fund the arts is fine, unless you are a philistine. But this isn't that. It's taxing selectively foreign goods that their people are buying. One consequence will to make those products slightly less competitive. That is protectionism of a sort.
post #61 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


That's past. France is a country of excesses. It's true that their homegrown culture can't compete. This isn't the first time they've done this. For decades, there have been laws there regulating what percentages of US movies, Tv shows and other entertainment vehicles can be presented.

The problem for the Frence cultural protectionist agencies is that their own people prefer American entertainment to their own. If they must prevent this foreign invasion from taking over by taxing or regulating it, then the effort will fail. What they need is to allow their own people to compete. And if they aren't good enough, well, that's just too bad.

 

It's also true that all countries enact protectionist policies to one degree or another. The US has become quite corporatist and answers to connected insider businesses and "financial institutions" all the time.

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post #62 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

You know, AI, I really expect more from you. This article (published anonymously) is the essence of FUD.

If the issue at hand pertains to all foreign devices of this type, then the headline is not: 

Apple's iPads, iPhones could be subject to new French 'culture tax'



Grow the "F" up.

You did read the actual article, right? This is an Apple interest site after all, and what is of interest is how it applies to Apple. So the headline reflects that. This is not a straight news site, in case you've wondered.
post #63 of 145

Ah. Those wacky French Socialists! They must be taking lessons from New York and California.

post #64 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Even if we do get more taxes, it will still be no more than a third of what the French pay.

 

Countries that reduce taxes instead of raising them to feed their coffers and line their own pockets will become havens for the wealthy, as it has always been. If I had a large income, I'd avoid France and the US.

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post #65 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

A society that is universally socialist and does not rely on the force of government to make the citizens pay into the system? Have at it. However, the reality is there is no such thing. No two people think completely identically and two (or more) people 100% in agreement 100% of the time is an impossibility.

Unless the other person is your wife and you're watching something good on TV lol.gif
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post #66 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's sort of like saying you've repaid your debt to your mother for giving you life by taking her to McDonald's for Mother's Day, and you wish she'd stop complaining about the ketchup smears on the seats.

Well, they did help us, but that help was not decisive. Don't make more of it than was intended. The main reason the French helped us because it would weaken the English. So it was less for us, and more self interest for them. That's all we can expect of anyone.

Then they had their own revolution, and look where that went!
post #67 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

If France is one of the most "capitalistic" countries, then surely their socialism has had the net effect of blunting it's effectiveness.

 

Thanks for the correction, should have used "capitalistic" indeed.

 

Otherwise you're wrong. It is the US and not France that is almost owned by the "communist" China. Or, in other words NIIP (net international investment position, balance of external assets and liabilities) as per 2010: USA -2,473.6 billion USD, France -270 billion USD. Quite effective in comparison.

post #68 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

 

The problem here is not really advertising money, the problem is the size of the addressable markets. Almost every EU country has a different language and Germany with 80 million people  (or approx. 95 million if you add Austria and the, partly German-speaking, Switzerland) is already the largest same language market; most EU countries are a lot smaller. Without money from governments (or government owned TV stations) a lot of valuable movies would not even get the required dubbing.

 

Not everything has to be as big as a Hollywood movie (or similar).  We're finally starting to accept and embrace that fact here in Canada (a relatively small country in terms of population).  It's impossible to compete with the Hollywood machine, but there's always a good number people (at least, in major cities like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver) who are looking for unique, local culture.  We also have rules for CanCon (Canadian content), though they're pretty archaic right now.

 

IMO, in most major cities around the world, there's a large enough market to sustain a fair number of local cultural products.  No one ever promised that artists would live as well as investment bankers, but it's possible to make a living at it with enough perseverance as long there's a level playing field. 1smile.gif

 

 

Quote:
Another point here is that large markets (like the US and Canada) largely shun foreign movies, even if they are good and certainly not expensive. Why was there a need to do a remake of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo"? The Swedish original had better actors and was much closer to the book than the poor US remake. Heck. What was wrong with the BBC's "State of Play" series? The Hollywood remake was simply shameful and badly acted. Want to hear the answer? There is barely a more protectionist industry than the US movie industry. They may not consume tax money, but they sure spend tons of US consumer Dollars on the lobbying required to keep their monopoly intact. But the conventional reactionary wisdom is: if there are no governments and taxes involved, it must be fair. Quite naïve.

 

Agreed.  And this is the point I was making about the locking up of free markets.  If the means are available for small local films, music producers, playwrights, etc to get their work in front of enough eyes and ears, then that'll go a long way.  As for exporting culture to larger markets, that's a different story which is more difficult to answer (if you don't want people telling you how your country should be governed, you shouldn't try to do the same).  But I agree with you on the free market BS.  No such thing as a truly free market -- just different rules for rigging different games. lol.gif

 
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post #69 of 145
The anger and indignation level is unjustifiably high in this thread. Frenchdroids?

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post #70 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

If France is one of the most "capitalistic" countries, then surely their socialism has had the net effect of blunting it's effectiveness.

Surely the Fox News Channel has blurred the definition of socialism. Calling someone is a socialist, for them, is just a more polite way of saying "Commie Bastard". A country having social services does not make it socialist. Please turn off the TV and do some reading.

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post #71 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


I don't think you understand the issue here. Taxing everyone in order to fund the arts is fine, unless you are a philistine. But this isn't that. It's taxing selectively foreign goods that their people are buying. One consequence will to make those products slightly less competitive. That is protectionism of a sort.

One doesn't have to be a philistine to be against government funding of the arts. When government funds the arts, you end up with marvelous works of art such as piss christ. Government should not be funding any arts at all. If art is not economically viable without public assistance, then the art does not deserve to be created and is not worthy of existing.

post #72 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Surely the Fox News Channel has blurred the definition of socialism. Calling someone is a socialist, for them, is just a more polite way of saying "Commie Bastard". A country having social services does not make it socialist. Please turn off the TV and do some reading.

The prime minister of France is definitely a socialist thug, as he belongs to the socialist party.

post #73 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

It's also true that all countries enact protectionist policies to one degree or another. The US has become quite corporatist and answers to connected insider businesses and "financial institutions" all the time.

We're still not as bad as other countries. In fact, we're not protectionistic enough. If we retaliated every time a country enacted some law or regulation intended to keep our products out, or at a disadvantage, and it happens far more often than you know, perhaps they would stop doing it. But we don't.

But this is cultural protectionism, and it rarely works because the people themselves are voting with their money. France has been fighting a rearguard action for some time, and they're losing. France is no longer the country of Moliere. They are now the country of Jerry Lewis, country music and other foreign Tv shows and movies.

The problem is that most French content is more intended for art houses than the wide distribution content elsewhere is intended for. This is one consequence of protecting their culture. As those creators no longer need to compete, they withdraw into a much smaller pool of viewers and listeners. That's not helping at all. It just moves them further from the larger prospective audiences the foreign content sucks out.
post #74 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can no one use the right cue/queue?! lol.gif
At least this time it wasn't me. 1smile.gif
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post #75 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Countries that reduce taxes instead of raising them to feed their coffers and line their own pockets will become havens for the wealthy, as it has always been. If I had a large income, I'd avoid France and the US.

That post made no sense. You seem to have contradicted yourself in it.
post #76 of 145
This is the same kind of patriotic warbbling that comes out of some of the lesser-minded US politicans. It wouldn't be so desperately sad if it wasn't for the fact that French culture is so pervasive all over the world. They're not "Defending" French culture, they're stagnating it.
post #77 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post

France as a whole country is a joke. Billionaires are leaving France because of their higher tax policy on rich.
They better go back to making that Junk Wheat bread and baguette to protect their culture. They look good in kitchen making junk lol

 

Omg an american calling our food junk, is it even serious? Btw, remind me the country with the highest obesity rate, the country where junk food come from and invaded the world, where almost everything you can eat is full of GMO and pesticide and where almost nobody seems to care about it? A country where drinking half a gallon of sugared water with a pound of greasy sausage is perfectly normal. Where you can find so healthy restaurant that they provide you with "heart attack burger". Isnt it where you come from? Gosh, I am so envious. I will go back eat my so stupid baguette now ;)

post #78 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

One doesn't have to be a philistine to be against government funding of the arts. When government funds the arts, you end up with marvelous works of art such as piss christ. Government should not be funding any arts at all. If art is not economically viable without public assistance, then the art does not deserve to be created and is not worthy of existing.

Sure you are! Denying it doesn't change it. No one says you have to like what's produced. That what art is all about. If you don't understand that, and don't think government should have a hand in financing it, then you are a philistine. It becomes obvious, despite the denial.
post #79 of 145

I also forget to mention the country where the one time usable seed has been created, so that every year farmers got to go back and buy seeds again from Monsanto. Probably the greatest shame of all

post #80 of 145

the amount of idiocy sprout on this thread is amazing. the initial article was not good but the comments are worse.

 

First it's not a law, but a proposal by the equivalent of a RIAA lobbyist  for changes in anti-piracy laws. The report was made at governement request but the writer is a longtime employes of the record labels. So far from being socialist, this is a capitalist wet dream.

 

The tax is a small part of the proposal and we already have an equivalent one on CDs and hard drives so that poor rich music companies can get back their losses due to piracy. More, it does not fund french culture but is paid (both the current tax and proposal) as a strict percentage of the royalties of the authors guilds. It so profit equally to french and foreign artists.

 

The most important part of the report is about the 3 strikes law (which did not work) and would be replaced by an automatic fine of 140€ per infraction. One of the campaign promises of the president was to drop hadopi law (anti piracy) but this proposal is overall worse.

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