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Cook: US-built Mac will be refreshed version of existing product - Page 4

post #121 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

For the 0.01% of iMac users who need it, that is.

The overwhelming majority of iMac users never open their computers.

 

Noted and accepted as a valid premise, but now the roughly 2-5% who will experience a hard drive failure pay a MUCH higher price for repairs, since drive failure is the kind of thing that is likely to occur post-AppleCare.

 

That, in itself, is probably not a good enough reason to build in easy access, but the point is that Apple's choice is not without consequences for the user. You are satisfied with the choices of trade-offs Apple has made in the design of the iMac. Some of us would prefer that they sacrificed some of the aesthetic choices instead and focussed on greater utility.

 

The difference is in the type of user. Apple appears to be targeting buyers for whom a computer is just another small appliance, like an espresso machine or panini press. Those whose computer is chosen more like carpentry tools are frustrated because the only choices are a geezly expensive behemoth or switching to Windows.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I'm not. I'm simply opposed to people with no design experience and no experience in manufacturing sophisticated products and who don't understand that their are tradeoffs thinking that they get to dictate to Apple how they should build computers.

 

I don't know if it's that complicated. What Apple has done is the equivalent of a auto maker deciding that their car looks nicer and could be made sleeker if it didn't have a hood (bonnet for those on that side of the pond). The fact that most drivers never open it anyway doesn't make it a good choice. Eventually the battery is going to die, and replacing it is gonna be a BITCH.

 

We accept such trade-offs in inexpensive, disposable devices because their cost doesn't justify the time and effort required to repair them. An Apple computer hardly qualifies as "inexpensive."

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Once again, if you're so much smarter than Apple, go build your own.

 

I make no such claim, however I do have preferences and will continue to lobby my preferred supplier to accommodate them. User feedback has brought about many positive changes to a variety of hardware and software products over the last few years, like, for example, all the features added to FCPX and Tim Cook's promise of a computer for pros. Letting Apple know that we like their products and want to continue buying them, but that we still want to be able to do rudimentary upgrades/repairs ourselves, is not the same as believing we can "dictate" to Apple.

post #122 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by eji View Post

 

 Just because we don't share the same opinion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

 

Yes, but in this case, the repairability took a back seat to other considerations. This isn't just my opinion — it's shared by third-party repair specialists I've talked to, who have said that the new iMacs suffer from the same — if not more — hardware problems as the old ones (many of which are due to heat and ultra-thinness), but they can't be opened and repaired without a huge time- and labor-intensive process. Let's remember that Apple is not infallible.

 

 

This is no different to saying that if you disagree with my posts, you should go start your own message board. It doesn't prove a point — or at least not the point you want it to prove.

 

It does seem more your subjective "opinion" than simple fact, and here's why: I've also spoken to a couple of "3rd party repair specialists" who say that the new iMac actually isn't a whole lot more difficult to service. Depending on the repair, there may be a couple of extra steps, but it isn't a big deal to them it seems. As one of them put it to me, "way minor differences". 

 

Once inside, they also say the layout is just as nice, with it being no more or less difficult getting to/swapping out components, like the hard drive (assuming it isn't solid state).

 

This notion of "less repairable" iMac was a subjective one picked up by the 'nets and distributed liberally.

 

It may be true that the new iMac is less "user serviceable" than previous models, but, I'm not sure how my 2010 iMac is any MORE user serviceable than the new one. It really isn't.

 

And to declare the new iMac "suffers" from "the same or MORE of the same problems" is 'non-specific negativity' that doesn't prove any points at all. Interesting choices of words.

 

I use two external hard drives with my 2010 iMac, and boot from one of them regularly. I probably won't pay to replace my internal hard drive if it ever does fail while I own it. How it that any different with the new iMac, especially given the push toward solid state drives?

 

And regardless of whether Apple is fallible or not, I still think this is mostly a non-issue… 

post #123 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Why should Apple be the only company to make revolutionary products? Apple rarely is on the bleeding edge of spec tech. Apple charges a "premium" because it controls all the widgets. It designs the products so the software integrates with the hardware than most (if not all) inefficiencies are removed. In addition, changing products for every new processor isn't cost effective or efficient. HP and Dell have done this but look at those guys now. Dell is going private and HP thought about selling its PC division.


Cost effective is a relative term. Any company that wants to maintain a great reputation for innovation must factor in the need to update its products often. If it doesn't then its reputation diminishes. Apple's reputation has been diminishing in the eyes of long time Apple computer users. I've read it here and on other Apple forums. The reason they stick around for so long is because of Windows. Who really wants to go back to Windows? Nobody. So those who don't want to fiddle with a Linux distribution must continue with the Mac platform. The Mac is winning only because HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, and the rest keep using Windows as their OS.

 

If Apple ever offers its OS for sale to the general public the way Microsoft does, there will be many people who abandon the Apple hardware for their own custom made boxes or one from another company.

 

Apple is basking in their "It Just Works" reputation, which is true. They have abandoned being a leading edge company for being a profit first company. They're becoming Sears. They have high quality products that are priced higher than the competition but they aren't leading the pack. They go with what they know and with what works.

 

Often they buy tech companies that are leading their fields and incorporate those features into Apple products. How much of Lightpeak/Thunderbolt did Apple really invent? Maybe Intel did all of the work and Apple just agreed to be the first to incorporate it. Apple was first with Retina displays but screen makers were already creating 4K technology. Perhaps Apple just grabbed it first. Maybe they didn't really create it at all. They didn't create Siri. They bought it. Where is the real Apple innovation? I think Apple peaked in 2007 with the introduction of the iPhone. From then onward the computer segment of the company was secondary and probably will be until they don't want to make them at all.

post #124 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


Apple is basking in their "It Just Works" reputation, which is true. They have abandoned being a leading edge company for being a profit first company. They're becoming Sears. They have high quality products that are priced higher than the competition but they aren't leading the pack. They go with what they know and with what works.
Apple is becoming Sears? WTF?
post #125 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

It does seem more your subjective "opinion" than simple fact, and here's why: I've also spoken to a couple of "3rd party repair specialists" who say that the new iMac actually isn't a whole lot more difficult to service. Depending on the repair, there may be a couple of extra steps, but it isn't a big deal to them it seems. As one of them put it to me, "way minor differences". 

Once inside, they also say the layout is just as nice, with it being no more or less difficult getting to/swapping out components, like the hard drive (assuming it isn't solid state).

This notion of "less repairable" iMac was a subjective one picked up by the 'nets and distributed liberally.

It may be true that the new iMac is less "user serviceable" than previous models, but, I'm not sure how my 2010 iMac is any MORE user serviceable than the new one. It really isn't.

And to declare the new iMac "suffers" from "the same or MORE of the same problems" is 'non-specific negativity' that doesn't prove any points at all. Interesting choices of words.

I use two external hard drives with my 2010 iMac, and boot from one of them regularly. I probably won't pay to replace my internal hard drive if it ever does fail while I own it. How it that any different with the new iMac, especially given the push toward solid state drives?

And regardless of whether Apple is fallible or not, I still think this is mostly a non-issue… 
It started with iFixit and then got picked up everywhere else because it could be used to bash Apple. Of course iFixit has an agend so they're not exactly neutral and impartial on the subject.
post #126 of 214

Intel has an AIO case (Loop CAPO8) that comes apart with ease. Also has a traditional form factor motherboard, running CPUs up to 64 watt TDP. I assume many Mac users don't keep their computers long enough to require replacing the coin cell battery that feeds the clock. Open up the Intel AIO, and there it is. Apple could build serviceable products, but they probably wouldn't be so effing rich if they did.

post #127 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCM722 View Post

Intel has an AIO case (Loop CAPO8) that comes apart with ease. Also has a traditional form factor motherboard, running CPUs up to 64 watt TDP. I assume many Mac users don't keep their computers long enough to require replacing the coin cell battery that feeds the clock. Open up the Intel AIO, and there it is. Apple could build serviceable products, but they probably wouldn't be so effing rich if they did.

Ridiculous comment for several reasons.

1. It's not that hard to get into the case of the current iMac if you need to. Not a lot more difficult than the old one.

2. With the switch to SSDs, hard drive reliability is less of an issue for a large portion of the customers, anyway.

3. Going to soldered RAM on some of the systems makes them MORE reliable, anyway.

4. While I haven't seen any recent figures, historically, Mac users kept their computers longer than Wintel PC users.

In the end, Macs are still at the top of the list in customer satisfaction and reliability. All of the whiners here don't have anything to base their claims on but their own uninformed opinions. If any of them had actually designed or built something and understood the tradeoffs, their opinions might have some value. As it is, it's nothing more than the endless Apple-bashing that has been going on in forums like this for decades.
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post #128 of 214

My next computer will be a Haswell machine and I may be stubborn enough to hold out for Broadwell. I am not willing to spend extra for SSD this time. I realize the Mac is reliable, and some believe the mini is the most reliable of all. If my vision would allow me to have a mini, I would add an external HDD via USB 3, probably from OWC. I would grab the $599 model, using the internal drive for backup and the external as the boot drive. Yes, I'd save money by swapping the 4 GB RAM myself. I cannot believe soldered in place RAM makes a product more reliable. Show me. Apple could learn something from Intel and the NUC. Nothing inside the box that doesn't need to be. The perfect minimalist machine.

 

What exactly happens in the education system when Macs fail? Do schools really have the extra money in their budgets to have Apple fix everything?

 

This is pretty simple stuff. A hard drive can fail, just like a light bulb can burn out. Yep, newer light bulbs last longer. The good news is, when they fail, ANYONE can repair them. Imagine Best Western buying light bulbs that need a tech to replace.

 

I've asked before, and no one is telling me how much it costs to repair a Macs HD beyond Apple Care.

post #129 of 214
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
Any company that wants to maintain a great reputation for innovation must factor in the need to update its products often.

 

So shoving out updates is "innovation"? Go away, Samsung.

 

Apple's reputation has been diminishing in the eyes of long time Apple computer users.

 

No. It hasn't. Shut up.


If Apple ever offers its OS for sale to the general public the way Microsoft does, there will be many people who abandon the Apple hardware for their own custom made boxes or one from another company.

 

Not really, no. They make absolute trash hardware. And it wouldn't happen in the first place.


Apple is basking in their "It Just Works" reputation, which is true. They have abandoned being a leading edge company for being a profit first company. They're becoming Sears. They have high quality products that are priced higher than the competition but they aren't leading the pack. They go with what they know and with what works.

 

Absolute ludicrous nonsense.


How much of Lightpeak/Thunderbolt did Apple really invent? Maybe Intel did all of the work and Apple just agreed to be the first to incorporate it.

 

How about reading anything whatsoever about it at all?


Apple was first with Retina displays but screen makers were already creating 4K technology.

 

4K ≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠ Retina in any respect.


They didn't create Siri. They bought it. 

 

Oh, shut up. That's as stupid as "They didn't create iTunes, they bought it."


From then onward the computer segment of the company was secondary…

 

The only accurate thing you've said.

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post #130 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


Cost effective is a relative term. Any company that wants to maintain a great reputation for innovation must factor in the need to update its products often. If it doesn't then its reputation diminishes. Apple's reputation has been diminishing in the eyes of long time Apple computer users. I've read it here and on other Apple forums. The reason they stick around for so long is because of Windows. Who really wants to go back to Windows? Nobody. So those who don't want to fiddle with a Linux distribution must continue with the Mac platform. The Mac is winning only because HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, and the rest keep using Windows as their OS.

If Apple ever offers its OS for sale to the general public the way Microsoft does, there will be many people who abandon the Apple hardware for their own custom made boxes or one from another company.

Apple is basking in their "It Just Works" reputation, which is true. They have abandoned being a leading edge company for being a profit first company. They're becoming Sears. They have high quality products that are priced higher than the competition but they aren't leading the pack. They go with what they know and with what works.

Often they buy tech companies that are leading their fields and incorporate those features into Apple products. How much of Lightpeak/Thunderbolt did Apple really invent? Maybe Intel did all of the work and Apple just agreed to be the first to incorporate it. Apple was first with Retina displays but screen makers were already creating 4K technology. Perhaps Apple just grabbed it first. Maybe they didn't really create it at all. They didn't create Siri. They bought it. Where is the real Apple innovation? I think Apple peaked in 2007 with the introduction of the iPhone. From then onward the computer segment of the company was secondary and probably will be until they don't want to make them at all.

Do how often does BMW update its cars? How often does Rolex updates their watches.

What what has Google innovated. It bought Android and Moto.

Buying tech and integrating it is so easy. The developers just puts a pointer in the code and does nothing else. /s
post #131 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I see. Your opinion has been noted. Thank you very little. Or f^ck you very much. Whichever one manages to penetrate that vainglorious bubble of self-perceived superiority you live in.

I try having a respectful exchange of opinions with you and all you can do is dig, insult and blow your own ego. Have at it, asshole. I'm tired of being your jerk-off toy.


Yeah. You can't refute anything I said and you can't establish any credibility for your ridiculous assertions that you know how to build computers better than Apple, so you resort to simple name calling.

Please go away and come back only if you come up with something intelligent to say.
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post #132 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No. It hasn't. Shut up.

 

 

Yes it has. I've been a Mac user for 20 years. Currently Apple lacks the type of computer I want to buy. As such Apple's reputation has gone down.

 

Just because it hasn't gone down for YOU doesn't mean it hasn't gone down for other long time Mac users.

Quit putting your opinion out here as fact.

post #133 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Yes it has. I've been a Mac user for 20 years. Currently Apple lacks the type of computer I want to buy. As such Apple's reputation has gone down.

Just because it hasn't gone down for YOU doesn't mean it hasn't gone down for other long time Mac users.
Quit putting your opinion out here as fact.

No it hasn't.

Quit putting YOUR opinion out there as fact.

(This game is fun!)
post #134 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

(This game is fun!)

No it's not!

(I see what you mean!)

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post #135 of 214
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post
Currently Apple lacks the type of computer I want to buy. As such Apple's reputation has gone down.


ALL HAIL THE ALMIGHTY SINGLE GUY SOMEWHERE! HE WHOSE SOLE OPINION DIMINISHES THE REPUTATION OF THE WEALTHIEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD!


Just because it hasn't gone down for YOU doesn't mean it hasn't gone down for other long time Mac users.

Quit putting your opinion out here as fact.

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 85

 

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

 

Irony.

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post #136 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Yes it has. I've been a Mac user for 20 years. Currently Apple lacks the type of computer I want to buy. As such Apple's reputation has gone down.

Just because it hasn't gone down for YOU doesn't mean it hasn't gone down for other long time Mac users.
Quit putting your opinion out here as fact.

If that's the case, BMW, Rolex suck because they don't give me what I want.
post #137 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So shoving out updates is "innovation"? Go away, Samsung.

 

 

No. It hasn't. Shut up.

 

Not really, no. They make absolute trash hardware. And it wouldn't happen in the first place.

 

Absolute ludicrous nonsense.

 

How about reading anything whatsoever about it at all?

 

4K ≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠≠ Retina in any respect.

 

Oh, shut up. That's as stupid as "They didn't create iTunes, they bought it."

 

The only accurate thing you've said.

 



Apple isn't my religion the way it is yours. It is a company that makes products they want me to buy. When I see other companies making similar or better products for the same or less money I'm open to buying them. When other companies sell newer designs with current year technology I'll go for those over the older stuff Apple sells. I'm not a Windows guy. I like a couple of flavors of Linux, so the crappy Windows OS doesn't play into my purchasing decisions.

 

Apple won't make a small tower that numerous people here and elsewhere want. They gave up on the 17" Mac Book that numerous people want. The Mac Pro refresh cycle is driving people nuts. The Mini less so. Apple is paring its line to fewer items so that its transition to all tablets and phones won't be so abrupt. Why else are they so slow to update their computer line? All of those things diminish Apple's reputation. Justify Apple's decisions all you want, but it won't take away from the facts that Apple doesn't always lead the pack in computing.

 

Steve Jobs was good at predicting the future of computing and electronic devices but he wasn't the only one out there creating the future. Other companies have vision too. The Apple TV might be the last thing innovative that they create, and it was thought up by Steve Jobs.

 

Google Glass, once working, will be the next great revolution in personal computing. It's not for work but it has amazing potential to do things that a phone can't accomplish.

post #138 of 214
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
Apple won't make a small tower that numerous people here and elsewhere want.

 

Because those "numerous" people are less than one percent of the market.


They gave up on the 17" Mac Book that numerous people want.

 

Same reason.

 

The Mac Pro refresh cycle is driving people nuts.

 

Blame Intel.

 

Apple is paring its line to fewer items so that its transition to all tablets and phones won't be so abrupt. 

 

Nonsense.

 

All of those things diminish Apple's reputation.

 

Among the 1% of people who demand their minuscule niche be met. No one else, though.

 

The Apple TV might be the last thing innovative that they create, and it was thought up by Steve Jobs.

 

Ludicrous nonsense.


Google Glass, once working, will be the next great revolution in personal computing.

 

*snort*

 

The next great revolution in a personal electronic device will be home 3D printing. I'm a touch worried about the ability to make weapons with one, but everything else they can do outweigh that. 

 

Google Glass is a gimmick that self-respecting people won't wear and won't want to be spoken to while someone else is wearing. Augmented reality absolutely has its place in the future, but not as a worn device.

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post #139 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post




Apple isn't my religion the way it is yours.

...blah blah...

Google Glass, once working, will be the next great revolution in personal computing. It's not for work but it has amazing potential to do things that a phone can't accomplish.

The Apple is a religion meme is still alive and kicking...

Google glass will fail. It's an invasion of privacy on so many levels.
post #140 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Google Glass is a gimmick that self-respecting people won't wear and won't want to be spoken to while someone else is wearing. Augmented reality absolutely has its place in the future, but not as a worn device.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Google glass will fail. It's an invasion of privacy on so many levels.

 

Yer nuts. If they become commercially viable, as in you can actually do something useful with them and can buy them at a reasonable price, I'll grab 'em up in a heartbeat. Heads-up display? Yes, please!

 

It probably won't happen in my lifetime, but I'd like something like GG to mirror the display of a computer. I can imagine situations in my work in which it would be helpful to have real-time data updating on the heads-up while I'm performing other tasks. Or maybe it would just obscure my view of other, more important things, like where I'm going. It would be interesting to try, though.

 

Then we can urge auto manufacturers to put a Bluetooth transmitter in the instrument panel so I can see the tach and speedo without taking my eyes off that rapidly approaching turn!

post #141 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
The Mac Pro refresh cycle is driving people nuts.

 

Blame Intel.

 

C'mon, ya gotta give him that one. Intel was not the reason for Apple doing nothing except one CPU update over a third of a decade. We may be waiting for Haswell now, but that doesn't account for the three-plus years of dust on the Big Mac.

post #142 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

The next great revolution in a personal electronic device will be home 3D printing. I'm a touch worried about the ability to make weapons with one...

Amen to that, brother.
post #143 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Among the 1% of people who demand their minuscule niche be met. No one else, though.

 

I get that, BUT...

 

It's a niche Apple created. For years we were told that Apple is the machine for creative pros. Apple crafted and fostered an image as the definitive platform for content creators. So we bought in. We invested time in becoming proficient on Apple's platform instead of Windows. We bought Apple's hardware, and plenty of it. We bought shelves full of Mac software. We built systems, both tangible and procedural, around Apple's products.

 

So to now be told that we don't represent a big enough slice of pie to matter is a piss off. It feels like having invested heavily in producing HD-DVD and watching the market adopt Blu-Ray. "Yeah, we know, we said we're the platform for pros but we changed our minds."

 

I'm not saying Apple owes us anything or that they're doing anything wrong, but I'm sure you can understand why some people feel abandoned. That may be true and might even be the right thing for Apple to do, but it's still as big a change of direction as, say, Honda leaving F1 racing. Those who backed that part of the business, and built their OWN business on that model, are gonna be pissed.

post #144 of 214
Originally Posted by v5v View Post
C'mon, ya gotta give him that one. Intel was not the reason for Apple doing nothing except one CPU update over a third of a decade. We may be waiting for Haswell now, but that doesn't account for the three-plus years of dust on the Big Mac.

 

No, I don't. Apple doesn't do updates without CPU changes, and if there is no CPU to change…

 

If people want to be upset at Apple for not doing updates without CPU changes, that's another issue, but Apple's reasons for that are longstanding. 


Originally Posted by GTR View Post
Amen to that, brother.

 

I think the easiest way to put a stop to that is to require a valid gun license AND to have a REGISTERED firearm on file before ALL ammunition purchases. You don't need ammo without a gun, and if there's not one on file, the only reason you'd be buying it is to arm an illegal weapon, either purchased or printed.

These things can print the guns, sure, but they can't print the bullets. 


Originally Posted by v5v View Post
It's a niche Apple created.

 

I'm unsure what you mean. You're saying that Apple was the name in workstation computers (and computers for the media industry), but how does that translate to Apple creating the niche for a "headless iMac" when they have never made any computer like that?


So to now be told that we don't represent a big enough slice of pie to matter is a piss off. It feels like having invested heavily in producing HD-DVD and watching the market adopt Blu-Ray. "Yeah, we know, we said we're the platform for pros but we changed our minds."

 

I'm certain the change (whatever it is) to the Mac Pro coming this year will answer most, if not all, of the questions and concerns people have in this regard, one way or the other. But the xMac has always been a separate issue.

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post #145 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

 

Apple doesn't always lead the pack in computing.

 

When have they ever really? In computing, although occasionally putting out some of the best personal computers in the world, they've remained something of an underdog PC maker throughout their history.

 

 

Steve Jobs was good at predicting the future of computing and electronic devices but he wasn't the only one out there creating the future. Other companies have vision too. The Apple TV might be the last thing innovative that they create, and it was thought up by Steve Jobs.

 

Yes, Apple is doomed.

 

 

Google Glass, once working, will be the next great revolution in personal computing. It's not for work but it has amazing potential to do things that a phone can't accomplish.

 

The "next great revolution in personal computing"? I really REALLY don't think so.

 

I say this because I've been embracing those "next great things" as they've come along for some decades now. I also like to think I know them when I see them. So far, I'm doing pretty well with my 'predictions'.

 

Glass has some 'cool' to it, and definite niche potential, but it isn't the next great "universal" leap forward you seem to think it is.

 

No, I imagine something very different from Glass will be the next big thing. I also suspect we can expect plenty of wonderful new inventions from Apple.

 

For now, I see incremental, deeper integration across devices, a kind of 'ecosystem consolidation' across spaces and interfaces (led by multi-touch, voice command, wireless sync across all), cloud-based data, mobile… I'm pretty confident Apple is planning a major push into this with iOS/OSX and iCloud.

 

We certainly do think differently where Apple is concerned.

post #146 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No, I don't. Apple doesn't do updates without CPU changes, and if there is no CPU to change…
That is fine for Intels parting this screw up but that doesn't explain the lack of GPU update or other issues with the platform like TB support.
Quote:
If people want to be upset at Apple for not doing updates without CPU changes, that's another issue, but Apple's reasons for that are longstanding. 
Which is one reason to push for an XMac class machine or an entry level Pro using desktop parts. You immediately get around Intels long drawn out XEON update cycles.
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I think the easiest way to put a stop to that is to require a valid gun license AND to have a REGISTERED firearm on file before ALL ammunition purchases.
Registration is something that must be avoided at all cost. History is pretty clear on this, give up your freedom to defend yourself and you will enter into decades or centuries of oppression. Beyond that people have been making guns for decades, in most locations it isn't illegal at all.
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You don't need ammo without a gun,
That is like saying you don't need gasoline or oil without a car.
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and if there's not one on file, the only reason you'd be buying it is to arm an illegal weapon, either purchased or printed.
Your ignorance often amazes me here, but you have really gone off the deep end now.
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These things can print the guns, sure, but they can't print the bullets. 
At best the only thing that has been printed to date are toys and not serious guns.
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I'm unsure what you mean. You're saying that Apple was the name in workstation computers (and computers for the media industry), but how does that translate to Apple creating the niche for a "headless iMac" when they have never made any computer like that?
In the past Apple has made many computers that could pass as an xMac. They may not have marketed them correctly but that doesn't mean the machines didn't have some of the qualities of an XMac. What is more important now is that Apple has an OS that could really perform well on such a Mac, an OS that is well accepted in the industry.
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I'm certain the change (whatever it is) to the Mac Pro coming this year will answer most, if not all, of the questions and concerns people have in this regard, one way or the other. But the xMac has always been a separate issue.
It isn't a separate issue at all, the whole idea with XMac is to have enough volume to carry the Mac Pro. To put it simply a high performance Mac Pro will never have the volume to justify its existence alone. If you want the Mac Pro to survive you need a machine that can generate volume in the entry level machine. Just getting sales into the low six digits would do wonders for the platforms longevity.
post #147 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


The reason they stick around for so long is because of Windows. Who really wants to go back to Windows? Nobody. So those who don't want to fiddle with a Linux distribution must continue with the Mac platform. The Mac is winning only because HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Samsung, and the rest keep using Windows as their OS.

 

If Apple ever offers its OS for sale to the general public the way Microsoft does, there will be many people who abandon the Apple hardware for their own custom made boxes or one from another company.

 

Apple is basking in their "It Just Works" reputation, which is true. They have abandoned being a leading edge company for being a profit first company. They're becoming Sears. They have high quality products that are priced higher than the competition but they aren't leading the pack. They go with what they know and with what works.

 

Often they buy tech companies that are leading their fields and incorporate those features into Apple products. How much of Lightpeak/Thunderbolt did Apple really invent? Maybe Intel did all of the work and Apple just agreed to be the first to incorporate it. Apple was first with Retina displays but screen makers were already creating 4K technology. Perhaps Apple just grabbed it first. Maybe they didn't really create it at all. They didn't create Siri. They bought it. Where is the real Apple innovation? I think Apple peaked in 2007 with the introduction of the iPhone. From then onward the computer segment of the company was secondary and probably will be until they don't want to make them at all.

Windows still has greater dominance in the world over Mac OS X... I actually prefer Windows 7 to Windows 8, and Mac OS X. I still get better hardware at cheaper prices, and even making a Hackintosh is getting simpler to do by the day so I have that option as well. And not the mention the growing Linux database for home users besides the fact that most servers and workstations run LINUX. Android is Linux as well. Unix, the core of Mac OS X is built on FreeBSD. Which is Linux. You might not really know your facts dude, but I'm pretty sure Macs only sell because people are too lazy to figure out how things work. I have never heard or seen anyone trying to overclock a Mac, nor a Gamer say that their iMac is better than a custom PC. And Apple is just a great recipe company with enough money to buy their ingredients from who's ever making them. If people were smart enough to know how to build their own PC's and run Mac OS X on them with Windows on Bootcamp the sole winner would be the one who learned to make the machine work. Not Apple or Microsoft.

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iTunes Radio - Apple TV with Wifi AC - Gold Anodized Aluminum iPhone - Mac Pro: September - November 2013

 

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post #148 of 214
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Registration is something that must be avoided at all cost. History is pretty clear on this, give up your freedom to defend yourself and you will enter into decades or centuries of oppression.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, who said anything about that? If you have a possession whose function, primary or accidental, is to hurt or kill someone, it should be known. 

 

We know the countries with nukes. We have to register our vehicles. A record should exist of how well armed a person is. 

 

Note that I'm not saying anything about restriction on even the TYPE of weapon able to be owned, much less the number, just that if a weapon is owned, it needs to be known by someone other than the owner. Not the public, by any means, just not no one.


That is like saying you don't need gasoline or oil without a car.

 

I guess you can throw the bullets at people. Put 'em in a slingshot or something. Just like you could drink gasoline and expect to go faster or whatever.


Your ignorance often amazes me here, but you have really gone off the deep end now.

 

So your uses for having bullets without owning any guns are… what? Modern art? 


At best the only thing that has been printed to date are toys and not serious guns.

 

The plastic one that fires real bullets and doesn't set off metal detectors, you mean? 


In the past Apple has made many computers that could pass as an xMac. They may not have marketed them correctly but that doesn't mean the machines didn't have some of the qualities of an XMac. What is more important now is that Apple has an OS that could really perform well on such a Mac, an OS that is well accepted in the industry.

 

Are we all again forgetting that the reason Apple doesn't make an xMac could very well be that they just couldn't care less about making one? For reasons of lineup, logistics, or profit?


It isn't a separate issue at all, the whole idea with XMac is to have enough volume to carry the Mac Pro. To put it simply a high performance Mac Pro will never have the volume to justify its existence alone. If you want the Mac Pro to survive you need a machine that can generate volume in the entry level machine. Just getting sales into the low six digits would do wonders for the platforms longevity.

 

So basically, "Apple couldn't only sell the Mac Pro," which is obvious. Thing is, they don't. They sell the Mac Mini and iMac, too. And some nice laptops, tablets, phones, and PMPs.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #149 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm unsure what you mean. You're saying that Apple was the name in workstation computers (and computers for the media industry), but how does that translate to Apple creating the niche for a "headless iMac" when they have never made any computer like that?

 

I was responding specifically to the discussion about ignoring the tower and dropping the 17" 'book. The machines directed at and widely adopted by content creators are not a priority for Apple anymore. It's not my intention to address what Apple "should" do, but rather just understanding how a particular segment of users might react to what they HAVE done.

post #150 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


ALL HAIL THE ALMIGHTY SINGLE GUY SOMEWHERE! HE WHOSE SOLE OPINION DIMINISHES THE REPUTATION OF THE WEALTHIEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD!

 

Actually I have posted before that Apple used to have all four members of my family, myself, wife and two daughters as Mac users. They all have iDevices but all three have left Apple for computing needs and have switched to Windows.

I'm the only Mac user left in the house.

 

So sure Apple is wealthy. But Apple is losing sales to some previous Mac users. The question is why.

 

I'd like to hear your explanation. I could be just like the rest of the family and switch. But instead I'm here fighting FOR Apple instead of walking away.

Obviously you don't care. I'm trying to figure out if Apple cares why it has lost previous customers.

post #151 of 214
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post
But Apple is losing sales to some previous Mac users. The question is why.

 

Because you want a computer that Apple has absolutely no intention of making.


Obviously you don't care.

 

No, obviously Apple doesn't care.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #152 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Actually I have posted before that Apple used to have all four members of my family, myself, wife and two daughters as Mac users. They all have iDevices but all three have left Apple for computing needs and have switched to Windows.
I'm the only Mac user left in the house.

So sure Apple is wealthy. But Apple is losing sales to some previous Mac users. The question is why.

I'd like to hear your explanation. I could be just like the rest of the family and switch. But instead I'm here fighting FOR Apple instead of walking away.
Obviously you don't care. I'm trying to figure out if Apple cares why it has lost previous customers.

There has never been a retention rate if 100%. Worrying about the 5% that defected < winning over the 5% that switched.
post #153 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Because you want a computer that Apple has absolutely no intention of making.

 

 

This.

 

 

Is there hope for X-Mac buyers.

 

Kinda.  After ten years plus...(and they're STILL waiting?) a refactored pro (if it comes) and a Haswell mini are the closest people are going to get to an X-Mac.  Like Tal' says.  It's something Apple has no intention of making.  They 'kinda' tried it in the past and yanked the idea.  The iMac gives better overall value and Apple sells a premium computer with display mark up into the deal.

 

Back when there was the old candy iMac from £500-£1200

 

...and the G3 from £1200-£2k plus...things were simpler for the desktop.

 

But the iMac 'grew' up and ate lots of 'low to middle' end pro' sales.  The iMac is Apple's desktop philosophy.  It's good value for money too.  (Relative to other Apple desktops...)

 

There was a time when it was unthinkable that 'Tower' sales would ever be under 100k.  But Apple stopped calling out sales numbers by line probably for a reason.  Just how many 2k (for a crap entry spec tower) are you going to sell?

 

If they just upped the price of the entry iMac by £100 and are appeasing shareholders with pay outs...then what makes us think they'd make an X-Mac and charge less than they did for the Cube?  or make the new 'pro' cheaper than 2k?  From G3, to G4, to G5 to Gintel they have upped and upped the price.  When has it become cheaper?

 

If I had my 'wish...'  (and it takes nothing away from the iMac in my view...)

 

Part of me thinks they could simplify the desktop range into a mini Pro tower that can be specced with 'Mini' specs, 'iMac' specs and 'pro' specs.  ...and one model below a grand, one above a grand and one for about 2 grand.  I think they'd reach more sales than 'just' mini and pro sales.  But how many will that be?  Top out at?  It doesn't sound like it would be enough or why hasn't Apple done it already?

 

Oh.   They have.  Kinda.  They had a G3 that had 'power and value' (remember Jobs taking the Key Note...).  They tried the Cube.  Pricey.  They had a G5 for £995 (but with crap specs...)  That's Apple.  They don't do 'cheap' prices.

 

I think all their desktops are overpriced by a couple of hundred.  But it doesn't matter.  Apple is Apple and will charge what they like.

 

The iMac is Apple's prosumer desktop.  Just like Final Cut is Prosumer.  Apple is the consumer/prosumer company.  Consolidate.  I'm surprised they haven't taken the desktop line to just two products.  Or killed the pro and left the iMac with the mini as the 'cheap' option.

 

I can see a day when you'll have to take an iMac or 'lump' it with the 'pro' or 'mini' canned.

 

Everything Apple does is AIO.  Laptops.  iMacs.  iPhones.  iPods.  iPads.  They're all AIO designs with screens.  Millions upon millions vs a piddling number of sales for non AIO designs.  

 

1 million iMac sales is respectable.  Do 'workstations' across all PC vendors sell that many?

 

What is the iMac but an uber powerful iPad on a stand that you can't 'touch' (yet...).  A sealed unit running Mac Os X.

 

There are worse fates.  eg Windows...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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post #154 of 214

As for defections?  LOL.

 

There are more Mac users being added per quarter at an all time unprecedented rate.

 

4-5 million Macs per quarter.

 

4 million laptops.  1 million desktops.

 

How is that defections?  (from the mac pro?  How many are defections?)

 

A negligible amount.  A few thousand here and there.  If Apple were that worried why not rush out a pro last year?  The iMac is the consumer sales flagship desktop and the design flagship of Apple's design philosophy (sealed, AIO, basic upgradeability...just drive it...no under the bonnet...)....and even that took ages for the update.  The sales of the pro no longer matter.  M$ no longer matters.  Office no longer matters.  Cheap tower no longer matter (just ask Dell and HP).  Windows no longer matters.  Internet Explorer for the Mac no longer matters.  The G5 no longer matters.  Those are the old days.  They aint coming back...

 

Remember when Apple sold less than 1 million Macs per quarter? ;)  Apple now sells more desktops per quarter than they did back entire Mac line in the 'good old days...'

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #155 of 214

Apple cares.  

 

Just look at their stores and see what they care about.

 

Buy it.  used it for 3-5 years.  Throw it.  Sell it.  Hand it down.  Buy another model.  More profit for Apple share holders etc.

 

It aint X-Macs or upgradeable (tinker box) designs.  

 

Want to add your own display?  Buy a mini.  Buy a pro off ebay if you're a European customer... ;)

 

There was a time when you could pull out an entire innards of a Cube.

 

There was  time when you could buy a cheap blue and white G3 entry tower and see the door drop down...

 

There was even a time when the first white iMac flat design could be put face down and serviced.

 

What happened to those?

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #156 of 214

Apple doesn't even care about Adobe any more.  They gave them the finger big time over Flash.  And chainsawed their legs off with the initial release of Final Cut.

 

Now it doesn't matter.  

 

I remember using Photoshop 4 and doing great art on a Power Mac tower.  Fond days.

 

I can do just as well with Pixelmator...or for comic art?  Even better with Manga Studio.  Between those two, pretty much covered with an iMac.  For far, far cheaper than my original 'Power Mac' and Adobe suite purchase.

 

The power shift has long since passed.

 

Let Adobe 'enjoy' their power grab with 'cloud' photoshop.

 

I won't be following them.

 

I'd like to see a new Mac Pro.  But I won't be celebrating it's probable price.  (not by the time you add the cost of monitor...and gpu...)

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #157 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Actually I have posted before that Apple used to have all four members of my family, myself, wife and two daughters as Mac users. They all have iDevices but all three have left Apple for computing needs and have switched to Windows.
You are not alone in that regard. However I'm not too certain those reverse switchers have been that happy with the move back to Windows.
Quote:

I'm the only Mac user left in the house.

So sure Apple is wealthy. But Apple is losing sales to some previous Mac users. The question is why.
Apple is doing fairly well with Mac sales but I'm not too sure they are aware of the loss of existing customers. The greatest loss seems to be at the high end so maybe they just don't care anymore.
Quote:
I'd like to hear your explanation. I could be just like the rest of the family and switch. But instead I'm here fighting FOR Apple instead of walking away.
Obviously you don't care. I'm trying to figure out if Apple cares why it has lost previous customers.

Some people don't really get it. Apple has been screwing themselves by ignoring the Macs to go after the gold of the iOS branch. Too many think that a decades old computer line up is the way to run a progressive company. The reality is that Apple has squandered opportunity to offer bleeding edge Macs that could capture the imagination of the computing world. They have the money, they have the talent but they just don't have the will to offer the definitive computing platforms.
post #158 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Some people don't really get it. Apple has been screwing themselves by ignoring the Macs to go after the gold of the iOS branch. Too many think that a decades old computer line up is the way to run a progressive company.

Decades old? What do you mean by that they just refreshed everything except the pro last year.

Also, hate to tell you but they make more money in iOS than OS X.
post #159 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Decades old?
Hard if hearing are we. What is significantly different about the Mini or the Mac Pro especially over. He last few years.
Quote:
What do you mean by that they just refreshed everything except the pro last year.
A refresh is not a new product nor is it an attempt to redefine the platforms.
Quote:
Also, hate to tell you but they make more money in iOS than OS X.
So, Ford makes more money selling trucks, that doesn't mean they should ignore every other platform. The fact is Apples hardware, in part because of OS/X, is the only upbeat news in a market that is down hard.
post #160 of 214
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
What is significantly different about the Mini or the Mac Pro especially over. He last few years.
A refresh is not a new product nor is it an attempt to redefine the platforms.
So, Ford makes more money selling trucks, that doesn't mean they should ignore every other platform. The fact is Apples hardware, in part because of OS/X, is the only upbeat news in a market that is down hard.

 

So the Mac Mini is 'stale', is that it? lol.gif

 

The xMac crowd's argument can be summed up thus: "We want something new from Apple. Now give us the same computer everyone else has been selling for the last thirty years!"

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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