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Cook: US-built Mac will be refreshed version of existing product - Page 3

post #81 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

In fact the old NeXT plant (Fremont, CA) would be perfect for this (assuming it is the Mac Pro). That plant was tiny. Fairly low volume too. Basically one or two straight line assembly lines and some warehouse space and conference rooms.

Keeping it in the 'family', I like that idea…!

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post #82 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Keeping it in the 'family', I like that idea…!

 

Yeah, well, except that that plant has probably long since been re-purposed for something else, by someone else. It's been like 20 years! I was actually just kinda joking.

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post #83 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple CEO Tim Cook on Thursday revealed that the first Mac to built completely in the U.S. in almost two decades will be a new model in an existing product line, shedding a bit more light on the company's "Made in USA" plans.

 

 

I'm having difficulty differentiating between "built completely in the U.S." with "assembled in the U.S. using foreign made parts." It would seem the latter would be more appropriate terminology for Cook to use. I have the same problem with basement nerds blathering on about how they "build" their own computers when they do no such thing. They cobble together pre-manufactured parts.

 

And yes, this U.S. "made" Mac will probably be the Mac Pro. Let's wait to see the price and how it compares to previous models. Since the Mac Pro is a relatively low volume seller it will be interesting to see the profit margin on this. I'm guessing they will be low margin to keep the price in line, sort of a loss-leader for the PR value.

post #84 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I'm having difficulty differentiating between "built completely in the U.S." with "assembled in the U.S. using foreign made parts." It would seem the latter would be more appropriate terminology for Cook to use. I have the same problem with basement nerds blathering on about how they "build" their own computers when they do no such thing. They cobble together pre-manufactured parts.

And yes, this U.S. "made" Mac will probably be the Mac Pro. Let's wait to see the price and how it compares to previous models. Since the Mac Pro is a relatively low volume seller it will be interesting to see the profit margin on this. I'm guessing they will be low margin to keep the price in line, sort of a loss-leader for the PR value.

There will be some components that could not have been made in the US, but it's quite possible that the logic board could be assembled in the US. I do know there are certain type of sensitive equipment that has to be designed and made in the US to prevent potential snooping, back doors, and whatnot by foreign parties, so it's possible Apple wants to start making their Macs more attractive to such businesses. I'm sure whatever it is we're all be here dissecting and analyzing it in every way possible.

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post #85 of 214
This is also the reason it has taken them so long to refresh the Mac Pro...because they had to redesign it in such a way that it can be manufactured here in the U.S.A. The design will also probably lend itself to be built mostly by robots.
post #86 of 214
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
It is a failure in the sense that sales have been so bad that Apple has considered canceling the machine completely.

 

Source?

post #87 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

 

I'm having difficulty differentiating between "built completely in the U.S." with "assembled in the U.S. using foreign made parts." It would seem the latter would be more appropriate terminology for Cook to use. I have the same problem with basement nerds blathering on about how they "build" their own computers when they do no such thing. They cobble together pre-manufactured parts.

 

And yes, this U.S. "made" Mac will probably be the Mac Pro. Let's wait to see the price and how it compares to previous models. Since the Mac Pro is a relatively low volume seller it will be interesting to see the profit margin on this. I'm guessing they will be low margin to keep the price in line, sort of a loss-leader for the PR value.

 

First, this is a bit of semantics. Second, it actually illuminates the silliness of what is "made" where. Almost everything is global and international now. This has already been pointed out (many times now) with cars for example. Finally, it also exposes the fetish about "Made in America" that so many Americans and, in particular, politicians seem to have.


Edited by MJ1970 - 5/17/13 at 7:18am

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post #88 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I'm having difficulty differentiating between "built completely in the U.S." with "assembled in the U.S. using foreign made parts." It would seem the latter would be more appropriate terminology for Cook to use.

Except that Cook specifically said that many of the machine's components will also be made in America, with companies from Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Kentucky and Texas making contributions. He then added: "We could have quickly maybe done just assembly, but it's broader because we wanted to do something more substantial."

It doesn't sound like it's simply "Assembled in the US using foreign made parts".

As for differentiating the two, "Made in the USA" has a very specific legal meaning. The accounting is not always simple, but it's essentially a value-added claim. If most of the value is added in the USA, then one can claim "Made in the USA". If, OTOH, it's simply an assembly operation using foreign components, then one can't make that claim - and would have to settle for "Assembled in the USA". The FTC has very specific (and complicated) rules to distinguish between the two.
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post #89 of 214
I have to admit I am pretty excited. My long wait is soon to be over 1smile.gif Made in the USA or not! I couldn't give a rat's ass where Apple feel the best place is to manufacture.

As an aside, my MBP i7 mid 2010 just got a brand new motherboard courtesy of Apple Care and is running beautifully now. I now know I had a lemon for the last three years. Thank you NVidia /s. . Saving $200 wasn't worth the aggravation and all the &^%&$ wasted time. Not that I suppose I couldn't have got a brand new lemon but I have to wonder ....

If this is a new MacPro and is within my budget I may keep the MBP now it's singing sweetly as well as get a new Mac Pro and have the best of both worlds (being semi retired means I need the wife's permission 1wink.gif.. With it booting SSD the MBP is awesome except for the now outdated benchmarks. I hope Apple is taking seriously the number of times NVidia's graphics hardware have been the Achilles heel for their flagship products.
Edited by digitalclips - 5/17/13 at 7:35am
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post #90 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by igamogam View Post

This move does not fill me with confidence… Most American made products I have owned or used were pretty poor in terms of build quality, like Italian made goods but not so stylish.

 

Every time I visit the US I come away feeling that for Americans price beats quality and everything IS cheap! Although there is obviously tremendous pride in American made products they seem old-fashioned and inefficient compared to what the rest of the world uses. Perhaps I generalise but I can't think of a single American made item that sells well in Europe because they are generally perceived as not being very good.

 

Amongst visible American companies that do well Apple products seem to be an exception in that they are viewed as stylish and well made but the only other visible US high-street presences that jump to mind are Starbucks and fast food outlets. Even McD claim to sell 100% Swiss/French/British Beef/Wheat/Lettice (in their respective markets) because no one particularly wants to eat US grown produce as it is viewed as drug laden GM/Frankenstein food.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if people over here would plump for the Made in China version given the choice.

 

I totally agree and if you hadn't been from France then it may have had some weight behind it however, the French stereotype is a lot worse than the American stereotype.

 

If all of you Americans were given the option of a China built iPhone or a Brazil built iPhone, most of you would choose the China model because you believe the stereotype that Brazilians are lazy and thick but the Chinese people are honorable precise machines.

post #91 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

A refreshed product!  Take that, Samsung!

Kind of like the "innovative" Galaxy S4 right?
post #92 of 214
Going very deep in this project means what? Dudes what does it mean?
post #93 of 214
I'll buy one, whatever it is. This is a move in the RIGHT direction.

Other companies should do the same.
post #94 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And sometimes the endless criticism from people who don't know what they're talking about gets even more absurd.

 

 Just because we don't share the same opinion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There are many reasons for Apple's design decisions.

 

Yes, but in this case, the repairability took a back seat to other considerations. This isn't just my opinion — it's shared by third-party repair specialists I've talked to, who have said that the new iMacs suffer from the same — if not more — hardware problems as the old ones (many of which are due to heat and ultra-thinness), but they can't be opened and repaired without a huge time- and labor-intensive process. Let's remember that Apple is not infallible.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If you disagree, go ahead and start your own company and make computers that compete with Apple.

 

This is no different to saying that if you disagree with my posts, you should go start your own message board. It doesn't prove a point — or at least not the point you want it to prove.

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post #95 of 214
It won't be a Mac Pro. It will be the product Apple plans to replace the Mac Pro with. Expect a larger, super deluxe Mac Mini like box with a Thunderbolt chasis as an option for expansion.

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post #96 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


Good point. Those that want what he describes should buy a Mac Pro.

 

It's not a good point. It's a poorly argued point you happen to agree with. The Mac Pro is not a suitable alternative to a user-repairable (or even third-party-repairable) iMac in terms of cost and footprint. A Mac mini actually comes slightly closer to that ideal, but the lack of a dedicated graphics card is tough.

 

Kind of hard to believe that a basic desire to see improved repairability in a USA-made iMac is such a taboo topic among some forum members. The need to split glued-together parts and dis- and reassembly in a hermetically sealed environment to rectify common wear and tear (i.e., dust buildup, replacing a dead HDD) would seem to be just a tad bit impractical for a company that is known for its attention to detail.

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post #97 of 214
Be it Pro or Mini, this is exciting news. But I wish Cook would stop dropping hints one at a time. Say it after you've done it. Launch a product when it's ready. Announce a store or factory when it's ready to open. That's the Apple I prefer.
post #98 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by eji View Post

 Just because we don't share the same opinion doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

No, but the fact that you keep throwing out endless rants that demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about is sufficient.

There are tradeoffs. If you think you can do a better job than Apple, start your own company. Or at least go to work for one of the existing companies. I'm sure they'd LOVE to know how to do better than Apple - since Apple gets the lions' share of profits while everyone else is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Not to mention, of course, that the entire industry is doing little more than simply following Apple every time Apple does something new.
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post #99 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No, but the fact that you keep throwing out endless rants that demonstrate that you don't know what you're talking about is sufficient.

There are tradeoffs. If you think you can do a better job than Apple, start your own company. Or at least go to work for one of the existing companies. I'm sure they'd LOVE to know how to do better than Apple - since Apple gets the lions' share of profits while everyone else is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Not to mention, of course, that the entire industry is doing little more than simply following Apple every time Apple does something new.

Not so true anymore, is it?

post #100 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

People do love moaning incessantly about Apple's design decisions… don't like it, don't buy it? But this may work for you, a new Mac Pro is coming that will likely allow you to 'customize' it to your liking… wait for it, and buy that one. The "all in one" iMac is what it is (and pretty extraordinary in my view). Personally I have no issue with it missing an optical drive, or not allowing end-user repairs and internal upgrades. Aside from the RAM, it's unlikely one would need to do anything else internally anyway...


That is like saying a hard drive simply won't fail, and perhaps most Mac owners have money to burn for costly repairs. I still use my HP's Lightscribe drive for music CDs as gifts. Funny ... the Intel NUC is more accessible than most Macs, even though the CPU is soldered in place.

 

I have read, perhaps here on AppleInsider, where the Pro and mini are very low volume sellers, compared to all other Macs. The iMac is the heaviest of the popular machines. I would like to see a Pro with a smaller footprint and lower price. Or maybe a mini with a bigger footprint and a higher price. HA! "Made in the USA" is not a deal breaker or deal maker for me.

post #101 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

I think it's great Apple is bringing manufacturing back to the USA.  Kudos.

 

I rip on Apple for a lack of new products and services when compared to Google and Android over the past year or so.

 

Why when Apple has gone through such a major management change would you not expect a slowing of new products? People have to get into place, get everyone working on their ideas which was different from the previous managers idea. I'm actually very pleasantly surprised that Cook will be able to get anything new out the door this year. 

 

Furthermore, with such a big change in management and direction, I am quite happy for Cook to take his time and make sure everything is done correctly. 

post #102 of 214

Mac Pro > Mac Mini > Apple TV > iPod

post #103 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

But with Thunderbolt, that's less of an issue. You can easily add a second hard drive that's every bit as fast as the internal one.

 

At twice the price, using a thirty-dollar cable, increasing the amount of bulk, and possibly requiring an additional power outlet. There goes the supposed "elegance" of the so-thin-you-can't-repair-it-but-gee-isn't-it-pretty Mac.

 

I don't understand why you're so vehemently opposed to Apple making computers that allow access to the internal drive without the need for specialized tools and shop materials.


Edited by v5v - 5/17/13 at 3:29pm
post #104 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar View Post

I'll buy one, whatever it is.

 

I have never before seen written anything that more perfectly encapsulates the discrimination, evaluation and critical comparison so many Apple buyers bring to the selection process and buying experience.

 

 

Edit: Forgot the 1oyvey.gif.


Edited by v5v - 5/17/13 at 3:30pm
post #105 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


2. Hmm, a separate product line, with ARM. Something to think about.
It is something I think about from time to time. Once they go 64 bit I could see this happening though it may be an iOS derived device. Apple has been making massive investments in processor tech so I suspect a bigger goal that iPads and pocket devices.

So I'm thinking an iOS device with a keyboard. That would be a highly updated version of iOS that deals with the significant short comings in iOS making more useful for demanding use. The possibilities are most interesting.
post #106 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by eji View Post

It's not a good point. It's a poorly argued point you happen to agree with. The Mac Pro is not a suitable alternative to a user-repairable (or even third-party-repairable) iMac in terms of cost and footprint.
That people don't grasp this is beyond me.
Quote:

A Mac mini actually comes slightly closer to that ideal, but the lack of a dedicated graphics card is tough.
Sadly they took a step backwards there. Has well may change that a bit for some people but the Mini currently has other limitations.
Quote:

Kind of hard to believe that a basic desire to see improved repairability in a USA-made iMac is such a taboo topic among some forum members.
Apparently some see the iMac as deity to be prayed to and promoted endlessly.
Quote:
The need to split glued-together parts and dis- and reassembly in a hermetically sealed environment to rectify common wear and tear (i.e., dust buildup, replacing a dead HDD) would seem to be just a tad bit impractical for a company that is known for its attention to detail.
Giving people or repair organizations easy access to the disk drive ought to be easy to do without impacting the iMacs size significantly. So not doing so just demonstrates ignorance on Apples part or contempt for the user or both. A simple repair capability for know failure points isn't a huge engineer task.
post #107 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

At twice the price, using a thirty-dollar cable, increasing the amount of bulk, and possibly requiring an additional power outlet. There goes the supposed "elegance" of the so-thin-you-can't-repair-it-but-gee-isn't-it-pretty Mac.
The thing that kills me is this could have been addressed within the basic foot print of the current iMacs design. At least from the standpoint of the high failure rate items.
Quote:
I don't understand why you're so vehemently opposed to Apple making computers that allow access to the internal drive without the need for specialized tools and shop materials.
Why did so many drink the Kool-Aide?
post #108 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

At twice the price, using a thirty-dollar cable, increasing the amount of bulk, and possibly requiring an additional power outlet. There goes the supposed "elegance" of the so-thin-you-can't-repair-it-but-gee-isn't-it-pretty Mac.

For the 0.01% of iMac users who need it, that is.

The overwhelming majority of iMac users never open their computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

I don't understand why you're so vehemently opposed to Apple making computers that allow access to the internal drive without the need for specialized tools and shop materials.

I'm not. I'm simply opposed to people with no design experience and no experience in manufacturing sophisticated products and who don't understand that their are tradeoffs thinking that they get to dictate to Apple how they should build computers.

Once again, if you're so much smarter than Apple, go build your own.
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post #109 of 214
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Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

I think it's great Apple is bringing manufacturing back to the USA.  Kudos.

 

I rip on Apple for a lack of new products and services when compared to Google and Android over the past year or so.


If Apple never made a revolutionary product again I would be OK with it. What I'm annoyed at about Apple is that they don't even lead the pack with processors and new things all of the time. Yet they always charge premium

prices. They do come up with new standards every once in a while but they leave older processors in their machines far too long. They should be updating their processors immediately as they become available. Instead they leave their machines with the older ones for at least a year before upgrading them. In 2007 they let the Mini sit for a year and a half without an update. The Mac Pro is taking forever to be updated.

 

When HP and Dell offer newer chips half a year or more before Apple it just takes the shine off of the Apple brand. Apple should lead all of the time, not just some of the time.

post #110 of 214

Humans not robots!
 

post #111 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I'm having difficulty differentiating between "built completely in the U.S." with "assembled in the U.S. using foreign made parts." It would seem the latter would be more appropriate terminology for Cook to use. I have the same problem with basement nerds blathering on about how they "build" their own computers when they do no such thing. They cobble together pre-manufactured parts.
I really think you are being dense here. For example some hobbiest work with metal, if they weld something up in the basement or cast some metal to make an object does it really matter where the metal came from? Considering the SoC industry it is actually very possible to build a a computer in ones basement these days, PCB and all.

As to Cook, who knows at this moment what he actually has up his sleeves. However to slap a made in the USA sticker on the device he needs to comply with the law. Further he has already stated that they are trying to do more than the average manufacture.
Quote:

And yes, this U.S. "made" Mac will probably be the Mac Pro. Let's wait to see the price and how it compares to previous models.
I'm actually a bit excited about this. I'm split between the Mac Pro and the Mini though. The one thing the Mini has going for it is enough volume to keep the line running efficiently.
Quote:
Since the Mac Pro is a relatively low volume seller it will be interesting to see the profit margin on this. I'm guessing they will be low margin to keep the price in line, sort of a loss-leader for the PR value.
That depends on the final design of the Machine. The current Mac Pro leaves a lot to be desired manufacturing wise. The actual assembly cost, even so, aren't that big a proportion of the final cost with a little effort that cost could be lowered even with USA assembly. This would require refactoring the machine but I've been pushing for that a very long time. Design for assembly should be the mantra of the engineering group involved. I really don't believe they need to loose their margins entirely, they do need to get smart about the product though.
post #112 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


If Apple never made a revolutionary product again I would be OK with it.
I really don't that.
Quote:
What I'm annoyed at about Apple is that they don't even lead the pack with processors and new things all of the time. Yet they always charge premium
prices.
I have to agree with this one. Sometimes it just looks like they don't have a grip on their product development cycles.
Quote:
They do come up with new standards every once in a while but they leave older processors in their machines far too long. They should be updating their processors immediately as they become available. Instead they leave their machines with the older ones for at least a year before upgrading them. In 2007 they let the Mini sit for a year and a half without an update. The Mac Pro is taking forever to be updated.
It isn't just the CPU chip that they fail to update, GPUs are often treated even more poorly. Even when they focus on the GPUs they screw it up, consider the last Mini to come with a discreet GPU.
Quote:
When HP and Dell offer newer chips half a year or more before Apple it just takes the shine off of the Apple brand. Apple should lead all of the time, not just some of the time.

Well nobody can lead all the time! You are right however, over the last few years there have been to any lapses in the desktop rev cycles to be acceptable. I'm really hoping that with Haswell, the Macs all get revved within a month or so. Waiting six months for a simple chip upgrade is beyond stupid as is tying Mini updates to iMac updates.
post #113 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Humans not robots!

 

Screw humans. Any rational manufacture will strive to minimize the number of humans on a manufacturing line. We can't go back to the days of the Univac and assemble machines by hand, it would put our computers into Mini computer class prices that where common decades ago. Further there is not a realistic way for a PCB to be assembled with out robots these days. Without the use of pick and place machines and other robots the error rate and quality measures would be so bad that most lots would be rejected by any rational QC program.

Think about this, even electronic hobbiest these days build their own pick and place machines or use other jigs and fixtures to assemble their PCB. The parts are so small that it is very difficult at this level to complete a project without some aids for placing parts.
post #114 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Screw humans. Any rational manufacture will strive to minimize the number of humans on a manufacturing line. We can't go back to the days of the Univac and assemble machines by hand, it would put our computers into Mini computer class prices that where common decades ago. Further there is not a realistic way for a PCB to be assembled with out robots these days. Without the use of pick and place machines and other robots the error rate and quality measures would be so bad that most lots would be rejected by any rational QC program.

Think about this, even electronic hobbiest these days build their own pick and place machines or use other jigs and fixtures to assemble their PCB. The parts are so small that it is very difficult at this level to complete a project without some aids for placing parts.

Yep there's no point wasting human effort on something a machine can do. I look forward to the day when I have a 3D printer on my desk that prints my new Macbook Air bought from iTunes. Don't worry about jobs, there's an infinite amount of work to be done, improving the human condition.

post #115 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Even when they focus on the GPUs they screw it up, consider the last Mini to come with a discreet GPU.

Maybe they went with the on board GPU because it's fast enough, and differentiates the iMac by using a lower type? With the MP going 1 step further by making it user replaceable?

I have a mini, but only use it to watch some video's on the big screen in the living. YMMV, and perhaps you need a discreet GPU? Usually Apple does fine tune and tinkers a lot on which parts go into which model. From what I can tell, they deliver to the largest part of their clientele.
post #116 of 214
I have to wonder if you read your own posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

For the 0.01% of iMac users who need it, that is.
Just because you, in your limited view of the world, only see 0.01% of the users plugging in external components doesn't mean that that number reflects the real world.
Quote:
The overwhelming majority of iMac users never open their computers.
And just why is that? Might it be the fact that you need special tools to pop the machines open, that is on the machines that can be popped open.

Even if the user doesn't pop the unit open somebody has to service it. The extra effort greatly increases the cost of that repair. The fact that users don't open the machine has zip to do with the design being a bad idea.
Quote:
I'm not. I'm simply opposed to people with no design experience and no experience in manufacturing sophisticated products and who don't understand that their are tradeoffs thinking that they get to dictate to Apple how they should build computers.
Like you have any sort of design experience! It isn't that difficult to make the iMacs accessible especially for the high failure rate parts. You try to paint this as an impossibility, but clearly it isn't.
Quote:
Once again, if you're so much smarter than Apple, go build your own.
That is an irrational statement that you have repeated often. Frankly you don't seem to realize that customers have the right to express their opinions about how a machine should be built and its feature set. Obviously Apple can't satisfy everybody, but they need to be made aware of the fact that they are rubbing the customer base in the wrong direction.

Right now it is Apples choice to design a machine properly. A machine that is glued together like the iMac is not one that is designed properly. In the end it may come down to Apple not having a choice as the government may have to step in. The reality is that this approach is very very bad for the environment. It leads to premature scrapping of machines due to high repair costs for parts that can be expected to fail. You can try to defend Apple all you want but the fact is glued together machines are bad for the environment and correcting the problem isn't a big deal engineering wise.

In any event it isn't a question of being smarter than Apple, it is rather a question of why they are being so stupid. Companies acting like this is often what leads to the overbearing government regulation that causes our country so many problems. Apple has the ability to do the right thing here and everyone of us should encourage them to do so. In any event I wouldn't be half as concerned as I am if it wasn't for the fact that I've had all sorts of issues with hard drives and power supplies. These are known failure modes in all PCs and that is no different in an iMac. To make these things hard to get to is a bit of idiocy that has caused me to not even consider iMacs for my self nor as a recommendation for others.
post #117 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Maybe they went with the on board GPU because it's fast enough, and differentiates the iMac by using a lower type?
I'm not talking about the integrated GPU but rather the screw up of a discrete GPU they put in that Mini a model or two ago. They went to all the trouble of designing in a discrete GPU and then didn't give it enough RAM to really be able to do the job. It is like the engineers or marketers at Apple don't grasp what the software out there demands of the hardware. My point is if you are going to design in a discrete GOU it has to have enough RAM to do its job.

Beyond that there is no need what so ever to differentiate the iMac from the rest of the line up. People stupid enough to buy an iMac won't be swayed by the configurations of the other machines Apple markets.
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With the MP going 1 step further by making it user replaceable?

I have a mini, but only use it to watch some video's on the big screen in the living. YMMV, and perhaps you need a discreet GPU?
Actually I thought about implementing a Mini for that use. If I did that a discrete GPU wouldn't be needed well except for the short comings in Intels decoding hardware. The problem is that isn't my immediate need. Rather I'm looking for a midrange system to use at my desk that can handle CAD type work without bogging down on the simpler 3D work I do, Haswell in the Mini might do the trick but we have to wait and see how it actually performs in Apples hardware with Apples drivers.
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Usually Apple does fine tune and tinkers a lot on which parts go into which model. From what I can tell, they deliver to the largest part of their clientele.
Not at all from what I can see. They seem particularly oriented to organizing the hardware line up to push customers to the iMacs or laptops. Neither the Mini nor the Mac Pro are really customer orient products any more. The dwindling sales highlight the abandonment buy the customer base.
post #118 of 214
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post
Not so true anymore, is it?

 

Yeah. It is.

post #119 of 214
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Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


If Apple never made a revolutionary product again I would be OK with it. What I'm annoyed at about Apple is that they don't even lead the pack with processors and new things all of the time. Yet they always charge premium
prices. They do come up with new standards every once in a while but they leave older processors in their machines far too long. They should be updating their processors immediately as they become available. Instead they leave their machines with the older ones for at least a year before upgrading them. In 2007 they let the Mini sit for a year and a half without an update. The Mac Pro is taking forever to be updated.

When HP and Dell offer newer chips half a year or more before Apple it just takes the shine off of the Apple brand. Apple should lead all of the time, not just some of the time.

Why should Apple be the only company to make revolutionary products? Apple rarely is on the bleeding edge of spec tech. Apple charges a "premium" because it controls all the widgets. It designs the products so the software integrates with the hardware than most (if not all) inefficiencies are removed. In addition, changing products for every new processor isn't cost effective or efficient. HP and Dell have done this but look at those guys now. Dell is going private and HP thought about selling its PC division.
post #120 of 214
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I have to wonder if you read your own posts.
Just because you, in your limited view of the world, only see 0.01% of the users plugging in external components doesn't mean that that number reflects the real world.
And just why is that? Might it be the fact that you need special tools to pop the machines open, that is on the machines that can be popped open.

Nope. Even when Macs were readily upgraded, surveys showed that only a tiny percentage of Mac users ever did so.

And now that even entry level computers have more power than most users are likely to need for years, that trend is likely to accelerate.
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Even if the user doesn't pop the unit open somebody has to service it. The extra effort greatly increases the cost of that repair. The fact that users don't open the machine has zip to do with the design being a bad idea.

So you're incapable of understanding the concept of tradeoffs. Thanks for pointing that out.

Yes, repairs are more difficult if the case can't be easily opened. But, OTOH, the frequency of repairs may be lower with Apple's new designs. And if the frequency of repairs is low enough, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

Apple clearly thinks that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I suspect that they know a bit more about building computers than you do.
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Like you have any sort of design experience! It isn't that difficult to make the iMacs accessible especially for the high failure rate parts. You try to paint this as an impossibility, but clearly it isn't. .

That's called a 'straw man' argument. I never said it was impossible. I said that designing and building a computer involved tradeoffs. Apple, based on their thousands (millions?) of man-years of design experience, believes that the current design makes the most sense. You, with your microseconds of design experience, do not.

So who should we believe? And if you're so much smarter than Apple, why haven't you started your own company or sold your expertise to one of Apple's competitors?

And, btw, I do have extensive design experience and design-to-manufacture experience, along with general management experience that involves assessing the kinds of tradeoffs that Apple has to evaluate. You obviously don't.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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