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10M Samsung flagship phones in 28 days a 'record,' 5M iPhone 5 in 3 days 'disappointing' - Page 3

post #81 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Retarded whale, really? How is someone supposed to respect your opinion when you use terms like that?

We don't respect his opinion, and we never did.  Generalizing millions of any phone user into one category is simply ridiculous.  I suggest we refer to pedromartins as "pedriculous" or "pedramaqueen:".

post #82 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It's all about expectations. Derek Jeter comes up to bat and he's expected to hit a single or a double but if ARod is up to bat a homerun is expected.

Yup, true.  But these expectations are "fan" expectations where emotion is in play.   This is different from an analyst view which is to remove that emotion and look at the situation analytically (that's why they are called analysts)...

post #83 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Everyone on this thread understands that Samsung is successful, but you're ignoring the basis of the article that notes the same author referring to slower pace as successful and a faster rate as unsuccessful.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It's all about expectations. Derek Jeter comes up to bat and he's expected to hit a single or a double but if ARod is up to bat a homerun is expected.

 

Not the worst analogy.  Suppose ARod had a history of hitting home runs regularly.  Suppose Jeter was known for reliably hitting singles.  Based on expectations the Yankees decide to pay ARod 30mil a year and Jeter 15mil.

 

Now the season gets underway and reality plays out a little different than expectations- ARod is reliably hitting triples, with the occasional home run.  Jeter surprises everyone by hitting doubles reliably with the occasional triple thrown in.  Despite still outhitting Jeter, ARod gets some bad press.  Jeter gets some glowing press reviews.

 

Next season comes around and they negotiate contracts.  ARod is offered 25mil and Jeter is offered 18mil.....

 

An ARod fan might cry fowl.  ARod is playing *better* than Jeter but they are disappointed in him and giving him a pay cut, and yet reporters are gushing over Jeters performance and the Yankees are giving him a raise!!  How dumb is that?!

 

At its peak Apples $650 bil plus market cap was based on it completely crushing everything (hitting repeated home runs). At that time I believe Samsung Electronics was somewhere above the $100-125 bil valuation.  So Apple was valued around 6 times more than Samsung.

 

Apple did 'worse than expected.'  Samsung did 'better than expected.'  Apple still has the better sales and profits- but no longer so much so that they are worth 6 times as much.   Based on this seasons contract negotiations Apple got a 'pay cut' and is valued at @ $400billion.   Samsung electronics got a 'raise' and is currently valued @ $170 billion.

 

Apple is still valued at somewhere between 2x to 3x Samsung electronics.

 

The iPhone 5s will mark the next inning.  It *has* to be the best selling phone and certainly exceed the S4's sales.  If it does not, there will no longer be a justification for Apple to be valued at 2-3x Samsung.  If it surprises everyone and people flock en masse to it ditching their Android phones and knocking down store walls to get at it- then maybe Apple will go back to being worth 6x Samsung.

post #84 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

We don't respect his opinion, and we never did.  Generalizing millions of any phone user into one category is simply ridiculous.  I suggest we refer to pedromartins as "pedriculous" or "pedramaqueen:".

There's a big difference being not liking a choice someone made and not liking the person for the choice they made. Perdromartins seems like he cannot deferentiate that.
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post #85 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post


Not the worst analogy.  Suppose ARod had a history of hitting home runs regularly.  Suppose Jeter was known for reliably hitting singles.  Based on expectations the Yankees decide to pay ARod 30mil a year and Jeter 15mil.

Now the season gets underway and reality plays out a little different than expectations- ARod is reliably hitting triples, with the occasional home run.  Jeter surprises everyone by hitting doubles reliably with the occasional triple thrown in.  Despite still outhitting Jeter, ARod gets some bad press.  Jeter gets some glowing press reviews.

Next season comes around and they negotiate contracts.  ARod is offered 25mil and Jeter is offered 18mil.....

An ARod fan might cry fowl.  ARod is playing *better* than Jeter but they are disappointed in him and giving him a pay cut, and yet reporters are gushing over Jeters performance and the Yankees are giving him a raise!!  How dumb is that?!

At its peak Apples $650 bil plus market cap was based on it completely crushing everything (hitting repeated home runs). At that time I believe Samsung Electronics was somewhere above the $100-125 bil valuation.  So Apple was valued around 6 times more than Samsung.

Apple did 'worse than expected.'  Samsung did 'better than expected.'  Apple still has the better sales and profits- but no longer so much so that they are worth 6 times as much.   Based on this seasons contract negotiations Apple got a 'pay cut' and is valued at @ $400billion.   Samsung electronics got a 'raise' and is currently valued @ $170 billion.

Apple is still valued at somewhere between 2x to 3x Samsung electronics.

The iPhone 5s will mark the next inning.  It *has* to be the best selling phone and certainly exceed the S4's sales.  If it does not, there will no longer be a justification for Apple to be valued at 2-3x Samsung.  If it surprises everyone and people flock en masse to it ditching their Android phones and knocking down store walls to get at it- then maybe Apple will go back to being worth 6x Samsung.

1. The media always gushes over Jeter no matter what he does.

2. There are no ARod fans lol.gif
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post #86 of 192
I think too many of you have the wrong take away here. The S4 sales really are amazing.

I have used one, and the fact that they can sell a single one of these S4 POSes in a market where the iPhone is an option is truly incredible.
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post #87 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by sambira View Post

Yup, true.  But these expectations are "fan" expectations where emotion is in play.   This is different from an analysis t view which is to remove that emotion and look at the situation analytically (that's why they are called analysts)...

That's not entirely true. Frood makes a good point. Players aren't given contracts on fans expectations but what ownership expects from them. For the average NBA player 20 points is great and he'll receive adulation from the media but if Carmelo Anthony gets less than 30 it's a disappointment and the media will criticize him.
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post #88 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by shen View Post

I think too many of you have the wrong take away here. The S4 sales really are amazing.

I have used one, and the fact that they can sell a single one of these S4 POSes in a market where the iPhone is an option is truly incredible.

What's even more incredible is the people that have a iPhone and switch. Just this morning 2 of my iPhone owning friends were raving about the SGS 4 much to my surprise.
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post #89 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I finally got the chance to use one in person. My niece just got one. Her last phone was an iPhone 4S and she was due for an upgrade and didn't want an iPhone 5 because of the small screen size. I was pretty impressed. Very light and really beautiful screen to my eyes at least. I didn't use it for long, only about 3 minutes but it felt snappy and responsive. My niece said she far preferred it over the 4S just for the screen. Many here might dismiss it as cheap or plastic crap but the reviews seem very good overall from actual users. 

Since it is becoming less and less likely thatApple will release a larger screen this year I might not bother waiting and just upgrade to the Galaxy S4 myself while I can still get a decent price for my iPhone 5 and hope Apple releases a larger version next year. 
[/quote
Sadly I have to agree with you on this. I am long appl, only own apple products. But once I saw and picked up the Samsung larger screen I realized what mistake apple made. Just one more mistake among several. Really dissapoints me. Can't tell you how often my girlfriend hands me her iPhone & asks me to read something on her screen that she can't read because its too small. Apple really missed the boat on this one. Still long apple though realizing I made a mistake by holding this long.
post #90 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

What's even more incredible is the people that have a iPhone and switch. Just this morning 2 of my iPhone owning friends were raving about the SGS 4 much to my surprise.

Some of it generational, being rebellious. Just looking at my friend' kids. Their parents have been using iPhones. Have you ever seen kids that like the same music as their parents?1wink.gif
post #91 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by skleiniv View Post

Can't tell you how often my girlfriend hands me her iPhone & asks me to read something on her screen that she can't read because its too small.

Four words that might be of help to your girlfriend:

Settings --> General --> Accessibility --> Vision
post #92 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by skleiniv View Post

Can't tell you how often my girlfriend hands me her iPhone & asks me to read something on her screen that she can't read because its too small.

Four words that might be of help to your girlfriend:

Settings --> General --> Accessibility --> Vision

Again, he is right.

 

Despite all the shortcomings of the galaxy, the big screen (despite weak) makes a huge difference.

If Apple releases one, oh boy... It would quickly become the best selling device.

post #93 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

It never ceases to amaze -- and impress -- me that you take the time to talk logic to trolls and fools....

He's like the Jesus of AI, trying to save lost souls... I mean trolls.

Yep, just a regular Mother Teresa of this forum......
post #94 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by realpaulfreeman View Post


Personally I think the iPhone 5 was a mistake in a number of ways that might indicate the future of Apple. The aspect ratio/form factor does not have the comfort in the hand (and my hands are very large) of the iPhone 4S. My thumb cannot easily rotate to access the top and bottom of the screen. This bit of UX is revealing as I don't theorise that with the iPhone 5 Apple prioritized design over marketing, they felt they had to make the phone 'bigger' to meet market demands, but any of their top UX people would have pointed out the reduction in pleasure for the user. I would have loved an iPhone 4S with the thinness of the iPhone 5, but instead I got the first iPhone I didn't love.

The thinness of the iPhone 5 is brilliant, however the cost of achieving that thinness was the cost of moving to a manufacturing process that failed to deliver enough units at launch.

First the iPhone 5 is "too small", now it's also "too big. " apple can't "win" no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

The fault isn't Business Insider alone, Apple must also take blame for not working enough to counter the negative narrative against it.

BS. If all Apple did was counter negative stories, nothing would get done. Besides the earning calls and occasional press releases should shut the media up.
post #95 of 192
One-third of the Galaxy S4 models don't come with LTE. This includes the International version with the big.LITTLE architecture. Can you image the backlash if Apple had LTE in a device one year and then removed it the next year? I suppose when you have a dozen models that different is so many ways (not just color and storage capacity) it's easy to hide such things from the public.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

What's even more incredible is the people that have a iPhone and switch. Just this morning 2 of my iPhone owning friends were raving about the SGS 4 much to my surprise.

So far, everyone iPhone user I know that has switched to an Android-based phone has 1) not been a Mac or longtime Apple customer, 2) very heavy into Windows or Linux admin, or 3) has so far only used just one non-iPhone, either switching back to iPhone or still on that one Android device.

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post #96 of 192
There is one big difference - there is only the iPhone for iOS while there is so much more choice on Android. 10 Million wouldn't be much if there would be just the S4, but with so many other great devices out there competing for the same OS it is a huge number.
For the iPhone on the other side, there is no other device. People wait long for it and when then "just" 5 Million get sold it's not that much.
post #97 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Who in America (or a lot of other places) wants a crippled non-LTE phone?

 

With not much memory:-

 

Hype, hype, hype and a gullible audience.

 

 

Have you ever heard of a thing called Micro SD?

post #98 of 192

Normally Dilger's bias bothers me in his AI articles.  They often feel more like homerism than journalism (though I'm finding him to be a great podcast guest), and it's hard to dig out the useful new information.

 

This time, I was relieved to see the byline.  It's become the new media-herd position to say Samsung's up and Apple's down.  There's probably some truth to the herd's inspiration -- Apple's level of growth was too meteoric to sustain forever, and Samsung is clearly eating the Android profit pie -- but these biased as crud, lazy headlines are really starting to bug me.  It's too easy to ramp up the latest herd-speak in the name of click-mongering.

 

Thanks, Eran.  Or Daniel.  Or Dilger.

post #99 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Newsflash: the rest of the world is bigger than the US.

 

The rest of the world's tech market it only about twice as big as the US.  And trends in innovative products first introduced in the US usually show up in the rest of the world a few years later.

post #100 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


1. The media always gushes over Jeter no matter what he does.

2. There are no ARod fans lol.gif

 

Victory dasanman69

post #101 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So how do they achieve the difference?

Clockspeed is it not?

Yes of course but overclocked is a term used when clocking a CPU over it's manufactured specifications.
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post #102 of 192

It would seem to me that Apple has more of a perception problem. Partly because of the share price, people equate that with how well Apple is doing and haven't looked to see that the past 2 quarters were the best revenue producing quarters in its history for that particular quarter.

 

The perception problem is worse at Apple because their best spokesman is no longer alive. I think Cook is doing an excellent job at Apple on most fronts. On the perception front, he needs a bulldog in house(or and advertising campaign) that will take back the perceived ground that has been lost to Samsung.

post #103 of 192
It really does make a person wonder%u2026

It sometimes feels like "journalism" in this field has been reduced to a bunch of mercenary, pandering hacks who will say "whatever" if it involves paid PR dollars.

I certainly don't pay attention to rags like "Business Insider" or "Korea Times" (does anyone expect impartial reporting from them? Why would they EVER be quoted as an authoritative source outside Korea?)

WSJ isn't a whole lot better, their "editorial content" being pretty clearly in the pay of various 'market influencers'%u2026

Fortune isn't too bad, as they seem to have a more measured 'neutrality', but even they aren't perfect.

Sad that this is what influences market perception%u2026 money talks!
post #104 of 192
This is just sickening to supporters and investors.
post #105 of 192

Samsung: "In the first MONTH we SHIPPED 6 million units already, and we're cranking them out at a pace that we ESTIMATE will allow us to SHIP 10 million altogether…"

 

Apple: "We SOLD 5 million in the first WEEKEND, and we're cranking them out as fast as we can to meet demand…"

 

It summarizes pretty nicely. It's not hard to get.

 

The bigger question is, why are the press in general hammering on Apple so perniciously these days?

post #106 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Samsung: "In the first MONTH we SHIPPED 6 million units already, and we're cranking them out at a pace that we ESTIMATE will allow us to SHIP 10 million altogether…"

 

Apple: "We SOLD 5 million in the first WEEKEND, and we're cranking them out as fast as we can to meet demand…"

 

It summarizes pretty nicely. It's not hard to get.

 

The bigger question is, why are the press in general hammering on Apple so perniciously these days?

They always did. For the media, Apple was always one step from crumbling, and they could end tomorrow. Always.

Read older articles form sites like Cnet, etc. It's always the same topic, same things. Apple is the only one obligated to innovate despite the fact that no other company innovates at consumer level.

 

The difference is just that right now, because of apple (ironically), people have great devices, are always looking for more news, rumors to share and take things as fact.

 

You read a stupid digitimes rumor, you rewrite it (and always add something to it) and share. Another person reads your article and rewrites it (always adds something to it) and share it. Etc.

 

Those stupid news of Apple cutting orders (so they are falling) have been written for decades. Same thing, just change the name of the product.

post #107 of 192

It is obvious that when you get paid you dance to the tunes of your paymaster...

post #108 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

It would seem to me that Apple has more of a perception problem. Partly because of the share price, people equate that with how well Apple is doing and haven't looked to see that the past 2 quarters were the best revenue producing quarters in its history for that particular quarter.

The perception problem is worse at Apple because their best spokesman is no longer alive. I think Cook is doing an excellent job at Apple on most fronts. On the perception front, he needs a bulldog in house(or and advertising campaign) that will take back the perceived ground that has been lost to Samsung.

I have to think Cook is well aware that Apple's showman is gone and that allowing no new products for such a long time will make Apple "look" even worse despite record breaking sales and profits. Perhaps I'm just an optimist but I have think Cook knows he needs to prove himself and ease the minds pf shareholders and consumers, and will do so in a very spectacular way this year once some items fall into place.
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/18/13 at 4:01pm

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #109 of 192

So how many iPhone 5s did Apple sell 28 days after launch? I'm assuming its more than 10 million. 

post #110 of 192
No garbage is complete without a mention of the ludicrous Brian White of Topeka Capital.
post #111 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

So how many iPhone 5s did Apple sell 28 days after launch? I'm assuming its more than 10 million. 

Well that's the sneaky part of yellow journalism, isn't it? They're not out to do any meaningful comparison, but to generate click traffic. Saying the iPhone 5 sold X millions doesn't generate clicks, but saying it "fell short of expectations" creates a "story."

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post #112 of 192
Even trees cannot grow endlessly to the sky, the the promoters of Samsung and Google beware! Sooner or later, quarterly growth by the sheer dynamics of mathematics will decrease and thus growth pressures will be placed upon any firm.


Market share is not everything unless you are a firm whose business strategy and cycle is aimed at dominance in market share alone (ala large beer and soda drink makers; craft brewers do not give a hoot!). Apple dominate the Smart Phone market initially because it was first! Others through mass manufacturing are catching up and even surpassing Apple in pure numbers, some myopic analysts think this to be Apples defeat! Not so. Apple's strategic vision from its founding was not to be the biggest, but the best and most innovative, to include quality. For decades I used the infamous WINTEL PCs and I always knew that Apple made a superior product in comparison and I was correct. In a short time, all the WINTEL PCs all looked and acted like identical, boring pizza-box devices. Innovation and design suffered, yet the MAC survived and flourished, as it still does today.

Those buying the cheap, look-alike products from Samsung are most likely entry level users, in time, these consumers may well elevate their devices to 'something different' too.
post #113 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nealg View Post

It would seem to me that Apple has more of a perception problem. Partly because of the share price, people equate that with how well Apple is doing and haven't looked to see that the past 2 quarters were the best revenue producing quarters in its history for that particular quarter.

The perception problem is worse at Apple because their best spokesman is no longer alive. I think Cook is doing an excellent job at Apple on most fronts. On the perception front, he needs a bulldog in house(or and advertising campaign) that will take back the perceived ground that has been lost to Samsung.

I have think Cook is well aware that Apple's showman is gone and that allowing no new products for such a long time will make Apple "look" even worse despite record breaking sales and profits. Perhaps I'm just an optimist but I have think Cook knows he needs to prove himself and ease the minds pf shareholders and consumers, and will do so in a very spectacular way this year once some items fall into place.

I believe that he wants to create something. Maybe not a new product, but the best iteration of that product to date. He will be waiting for haswell (second part of the year), the new imagination chip gpu (second part), maybe Igzo, etc.

 

It's just circumstances.

 

It would be stupid to release a new iPhone/iPad without the rogue chip from imagination when they would be out 1 or 2 months later, just like new versions of Air and Retinas without the adequate chips from intel. Heck, i wouldn't bet against a retina 13" pro with 750m from Nvidia and a 15" with dual 750m SLI enabled.

 

Then we have new display tech, the fingerprint sensor for iOS devices, etc. That would be a huge seller for a new iPhone line with bigger screen and current line.

 

There's also software and the fact that Forstal is gone, that would require more work.

 

Cook has all the reasons in the world to delay those products even if ignorants are against it. However, what pisses me off, is that he isn't like Steve. When Steve saw some site or jornal behaving like idiots, he would:

  • call them idiots;
  • ignore.

 

The press is messing with Cook, Steve wouldn't allow that.

post #114 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future Man View Post

Even trees cannot grow endlessly to the sky, the the promoters of Samsung and Google beware! Sooner or later, quarterly growth by the sheer dynamics of mathematics will decrease and thus growth pressures will be placed upon any firm.


Market share is not everything unless you are a firm whose business strategy and cycle is aimed at dominance in market share alone (ala large beer and soda drink makers; craft brewers do not give a hoot!). Apple dominate the Smart Phone market initially because it was first! Others through mass manufacturing are catching up and even surpassing Apple in pure numbers, some myopic analysts think this to be Apples defeat! Not so. Apple's strategic vision from its founding was not to be the biggest, but the best and most innovative, to include quality. For decades I used the infamous WINTEL PCs and I always knew that Apple made a superior product in comparison and I was correct. In a short time, all the WINTEL PCs all looked and acted like identical, boring pizza-box devices. Innovation and design suffered, yet the MAC survived and flourished, as it still does today.

Those buying the cheap, look-alike products from Samsung are most likely entry level users, in time, these consumers may well elevate their devices to 'something different' too.

You were going good until you wrote this.
Quote:
Apple dominate the Smart Phone market initially because it was first!

Apple was the first to get it right, but they weren't the first. The one good thing for manufacters is that the refresh cycle for smartphones is 2 years at least for now, it's much longer for all other CE.
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post #115 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Apple was the first to get it right, but they weren't the first.

Quit the nitpicky crap.

We all know exactly what he meant, in context.
post #116 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I have think Cook is well aware that Apple's showman is gone and that allowing no new products for such a long time will make Apple "look" even worse despite record breaking sales and profits. Perhaps I'm just an optimist but I have think Cook knows he needs to prove himself and ease the minds pf shareholders and consumers, and will do so in a very spectacular way this year once some items fall into place.
You'd think everyone on the executive team would want to prove all these naysayers wrong. I'm hoping we'll see some of it at WWDC.
post #117 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitychecks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Quit the nitpicky crap.

We all know exactly what he meant, in context.

To be fair it's better to be safe than sorry. Even today people credit Apple with inventing things they didn't invent. Perfected? Refined? Evolved? Sure. But not invent.

Nobody invented anything. Everything is evolution from something. Even the wheel is an evolution from a square, for practical uses.

 

It all started with a gigantic fart, and the universe was created.

 

Thank you.

post #118 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitychecks View Post

To be fair it's better to be safe than sorry. Even today people credit Apple with inventing things they didn't invent. Perfected? Refined? Evolved? Sure. But not invent.
Just curious what that would be.
post #119 of 192

What this really demonstrates once again that Journalist and Analyst can be bought! And once again, it demonstrate that Apple has be unfairly and inaccurately been bashed since the day Steve Jobs passed away. Maybe Steve was right in not taking crap and it is about time that Tim should top being a gentleman and kick some journalist and analyst asses. Time to Tim to be like Tesla's Elan Musk and do what he did to NYTimes.

post #120 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Apple only HAD 5 Million units to actually sell. If they had more, they would have sold more. Plus, Apple didn't roll out the iPhone in all of their markets in the first day. Apple has only 200 carriers to sell through and Samsung has 800. With all due respect, Apple has a smaller market to market through with limited mfg capabilities.

I hate it when the journalist spin the situation the way they do, they don't do a FULL analysis of each company, the market, the mfg capabilities, roll out strategy.

Apple sold more iPhone 5's in the same time period as the S3 for the first 6 months.

 

Everyone knows journalism is dead.  Might as well just call it advertising...

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