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Google engineers talk fragmentation, how to make Android work for emerging markets - Page 3

post #81 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Google shill. 1rolleyes.gif They just can't accept the fact that Google is a hypocrite company we all know it is, can they?

1) He's not a Google schill.

2) Are Schiller fans called schillers? That's confusing. Although I do like Schmidt fans being called schmidtheads.

3) I've yet to see a company that isn't hypocritical or dubious in some way. I think Apple is more honest than Google as they tend to be very clear about what they will discuss and leave very little to question, whereas Google is more likely to use terminology and make statements that arr more "open" to interpretation. In that case Google really is more "open". 1smile.gif

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post #82 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Google shill. 1rolleyes.gif They just can't accept the fact that Google is a hypocrite company we all know it is, can they?

Every company does hypocritical things. I'm nobody's shill but my own.
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post #83 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I didn't read that much into it. I was making a guess. I wasn't defending them, nor justifying it, big difference.

OK then. I misunderstood. The fact that Google wasn't happy with Alibaba is because it's Android fork that didn't use Google services. From Andy Rubin's:

 

"So there's really no disputing that Aliyun is based on the Android platform and takes advantage of all the hard work that's gone into that platform by the OHA.

 
So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible. [It's] easy, free, and we'll even help you out. But if you don't want to be compatible, then don't expect help from OHA members that are all working to support and build a unified Android ecosystem."
post #84 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

You massage the numbers however you can to make yourself look better!

And MS has us covered here: in Excel, instead of changing the numbers you can simply drag the line in the graph and the numbers will change accordingly!
post #85 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Those visual representations of their Android version names are just hideous. I imagine that Jobs would say that Google has no taste to think these were a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studentx View Post

"In recent months, Google has changed the way it calculates the distribution of Android versions. While the company acknowledges that many devices are still on Gingerbread, first released in 2010, it now publicizes proportions only related to the users that access its Google Play Store, meaning that many Android device users essentially go uncounted with regard to developers.

Classic. They didn't like the numbers so they only counted what they want to see. This discounts all of the Android phones only being used as feature/dumb phones.

If so they should only count activations that "access its Google Play Store". You know, phones activated and being used as smartphones.

That sounds like those numbers using 4.x are therefore much lower than the number of activations suggest.





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post #86 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That's simply pathetic. Either it's open or closed. So they want to create a level of uniqueness by tagging hardware as 'Android compatible'

It's not closed and not fully open unless Google's rules are followed so, it's really ajar.
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post #87 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitychecks View Post


They have the power and position as per the OHA agreement. Hence why they didn't say anything to Amazon because they couldn't because Amazon isn't part of the OHA.

It really isn't complex nor nefarious.

 

Yes it is, because it limits choice and stifles competition.

 

It goes against everything Google (marketing) stands for.

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post #88 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

So if you want to benefit from the Android ecosystem, then make the choice to be compatible.

Doesn't sound like one has many choices, kinda like income taxes where one is voluntarily compliant.
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post #89 of 178
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Blah blah blah

 

Context:-

 

"Google doesn't control the manufacturers, they don't listen even when Google tells them something."

 

Google commanded, Acer listened.

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post #90 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

On or in or in on?

On in lol.gif

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post #91 of 178
Quote:

Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Blah blah blah
 

 

Context:-

 

"Google doesn't control the manufacturers, they don't listen even when Google tells them something."

 

Google commanded, Acer listened.

Well, perhaps there might be other readers who would like to be educated rather than choose to remain ignorant of the issues. My mistake was assuming you had any interest in knowing the difference. Had you bothered to read the articles I linked you might have found areas where we actually agree. You just have no idea why.

 

Lkrupp is right.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/157594/editorial-apples-billions-are-building-an-empire-for-the-future/80#post_2329647


Edited by Gatorguy - 5/19/13 at 9:28am
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post #92 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's a good thing the most important thing in technology is to implement a half-assed, barely functional version of something instead of doing it right the first time

 

 Like half-assed iPhone 1: a smart phone that was not smart enough to copy/paste.

 

Or like half-assed Apple Maps.

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post #93 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

 Like half-assed iPhone 1: a smart phone that was not smart enough to copy/paste.

Or like half-assed Apple Maps.

And yet Android still hasn't implemented cut/copy/paste as well or as completely as Apple did back in 2009 on their first attempt.

Your argument is like saying Dropbox sucks because Apple had iDisk years prior and yet you'd be a fool to say that iDisk was as good or secure as Dropbox. Of course YOU would never say that because YOU hate Apple but that just shows your inability to be fair or reasonable.

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post #94 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post

 

Apple's Multitasking is not gimped but done right for mobile devices, at least for the current state of technology.

 

For the current state of Apple technology - to be precise. Apple mobile devices don't have enough RAM to support real multitasking.

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post #95 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

For the current state of Apple technology - to be precise. Apple mobile devices don't have enough RAM to support real multitasking.

I think making blatant lies about iOS not being able to multitask despite having the ability since 1.0 should get you banned. You clearly aren't trying to add to the thread or any rational discourse.

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post #96 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Context:-

"Google doesn't control the manufacturers, they don't listen even when Google tells them something."


Google commanded, Acer listened.

Ok ok I got that point several posts ago. No need to keep hammering it in.
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post #97 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by VL-Tone View Post

Goggle doesn't copy anything. They put giant desserts on their lawn. Not the same as giant pixelized icons.



Lawn decor had a much lower resolution back then... lol.gif

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post #98 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


And yet Android still hasn't implemented cut/copy/paste as well or as completely as Apple did back in 2009 on their first attempt.

Your argument is like saying Dropbox sucks because Apple had iDisk years prior and yet you'd be a fool to say that iDisk was as good or secure as Dropbox. Of course YOU would never say that because YOU hate Apple but that just shows your inability to be fair or reasonable.

 

I don't hate Apple. I've been using Apple products for 20 years and I have owned two dozen pieces of Apple hardware. I love Apple, but not religiously, like some do. I am objective enough to say, that a smartphone with no copy/paste is "half-assed" (your terminology). 

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post #99 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And yet Android still hasn't implemented cut/copy/paste as well or as completely as Apple did back in 2009 on their first attempt.

Your argument is like saying Dropbox sucks because Apple had iDisk years prior and yet you'd be a fool to say that iDisk was as good or secure as Dropbox. Of course YOU would never say that because YOU hate Apple but that just shows your inability to be fair or reasonable.

The cut/copy/paste befuddles me. Sometimes it works splendidly and other times it makes me wanna throw my phone against a wall.
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post #100 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Lawn decor had a much lower resolution back then... lol.gif

Now that made me laugh. Thanks. That's 8 bit lawn decor
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post #101 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post




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post #102 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I think making blatant lies about iOS not being able to multitask despite having the ability since 1.0 should get you banned. You clearly aren't trying to add to the thread or any rational discourse.

 

Banned? Wow, how scary! Banning - is what this site needs to completely lose traffic. 

 

First, I've never said that "iOS not being able to multitask".

Second, according to Wikipedia, iOS got multitasking in version 4.0, but not in version 1.0:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitasking_(iOS)

 

So, please do not make "blatant lies" (your terminology). "You clearly aren't trying to add to the thread or any rational discourse".

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post #103 of 178
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
I think making blatant lies… …should get you banned.

 

MacRumors has a nicely worded rule on the subject of hoaxes (under which all that would fall) that I feel we should adopt.

 

Pity they don't actually enforce… any of their rules, eh?

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post #104 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

 

Banned? Wow, how scary! Banning - is what this site needs to completely lose traffic. 

 

First, I've never said that "iOS not being able to multitask".

Second, according to Wikipedia, iOS got multitasking in version 4.0, but not in version 1.0:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitasking_(iOS)

 

So, please do not make "blatant lies" (your terminology). "You clearly aren't trying to add to the thread or any rational discourse".

Careful...Soli is saying you should be banned....next TS will show up and start deleting your posts....

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post #105 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

MacRumors has a nicely worded rule on the subject of hoaxes (under which all that would fall) that I feel we should adopt.

 

Pity they don't actually enforce… any of their rules, eh?

Really how would you know? Aren't you banned on MacRumors?

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post #106 of 178
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Google was widely expected to release a new version of its operating system at this week's Google I/O, but the Android team's comments seem to indicate that the search giant has taken a different track this year, focusing more on honing what already exists on the platform rather than leaping ahead to new versions with new features and new architectures.

 

Let's take a look at how drastic the fragmentation really is.  Here are the usage share numbers for

Android 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 as of May 1, 2013, according to Wikipedia:

 

Android 4.0.x "Ice Cream Sandwich"

- released October 2011

- 27.5% usage share

 

Android 4.1.x "Jelly Bean"

- released July 2012

26.1% usage share

 

Android 4.2.x "Jelly Bean"

- released November 2012

2.3% usage share

 

The usage share of 4.2, after nearly six months, is just 2.3%.

Meanwhile, 2.3.x "Gingerbread," from way back in December 2010, dominates Android usage with 38.5% usage share.

The obvious result being, of course, that few if any developers will target any of the "advanced" features of 4.2.

They'll be forced to stick with lowest-common-denominator features that work on 2.3.x - 4.1.x.

Or, worse yet, they'll need to write separate code paths for the different releases' features.

Therefore it makes perfect sense that Google takes a hiatus on new releases and features.

 

And, after all, Google's only real concern for Android is that it deliver ads.  2.3 does that just fine.

96% of Google's revenue comes from ads.  That's explains everything about Android.

Google just doesn't care about Android fragmentation. Developers be damned.

 

 


Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

By comparison, Apple's iOS 6 already accounts for 83 percent of web traffic from Apple devices in North America.
 

See what happens when you design a mobile OS carefully?

You work out all the details of over-the-air updates.

You make the OS appealing and thus develop world-class mindshare.

And your users love it.  Much harder than it sounds.


Edited by SockRolid - 5/19/13 at 10:00am

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post #107 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

Second, according to Wikipedia, iOS got multitasking in version 4.0, but not in version 1.0:

 

I believe his reference was to the fact that on iPhone OS 1 one could talk and surf, talk and use other apps, use other app while listening to music and so forth. When third party apps were first allowed, they were not allowed to run in the background but Apple's own apps always did.

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post #108 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

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post #109 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post





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post #110 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post

 

For the current state of Apple technology - to be precise. Apple mobile devices don't have enough RAM to support real multitasking.

 

You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

 

iOS has always been a fully pre-emptive, multitasking, multi-threaded OS. Apple made a "choice" to not allow third party Apps to run in the background. They then did a very smart thing in 4.0 and added "services" where you could have a portion of your App run in the background for tasks that actually NEED multitasking (phone calls, e-mail, notifications, location, audio and so on).

 

Apple could allow third party Apps to multitask tomorrow by "flipping a switch" in their OS. There's nothing missing or faulty with the core architecture of iOS that prevents multitasking, as many Android fanboys constantly try to insinuate.

 

In fact, Android doesn't do "true multitasking" (a term they coined since I never heard of "true multitasking" until a fanboy mentioned it). Android, like iOS, does not have virtual memory or a swap file and will force close Apps when resources run low. No OS that can force close an App arbitrarily can be considered to offer "true multitasking". Apps can be suspended or swapped out to virtual memory, but they shouldn't be closed outright. Android does this. So does iOS. They both remember the "state" the App was in so it can be "restarted" in such a way to make the user think the App was always running when in fact it wasn't.

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post #111 of 178
Spare me! Google changes their OS Android for the sole purpose of helping the cell phone maker sell new crap. It works simply like this.
Google keeps making a build of Android more complex than the last so it sucks a** on previous cell phone maker's hardware. It's a calculated effort between Google and the hardware guys.
post #112 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

 

In fact, Android doesn't do "true multitasking" (a term they coined since I never heard of "true multitasking" until a fanboy mentioned it).  No OS that can force close an App arbitrarily can be considered to offer "true multitasking".

Never heard that one before. Where did you find that? If there's some at least semi-official definition somewhere it would put to rest all the silly arguments about whose mobile OS really multitasks.

 

FWIW I don't see why it's important to know anyway, nor what's lost or gained by the different uses, but for you and a couple of others it seems to be an important distinction.

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post #113 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Never heard that one before. Where did you find that? If there's some at least semi-official definition somewhere it would put to rest all the silly arguments about whose mobile OS really multitasks.

FWIW I don't see why it's important to know anyway, nor what's lost or gained by the different uses, but for you and a couple of others it seems to be an important distinction.

1) He didn't bring it up.

2) The distinction is quite simple. It's about the ability of the OS which means that iOS has been doing "true" multitasking since its inception.

3) Let's remember that it's multitasking not multi-apping, but even if we want to use that term (which I may have just invented) iOS was doing it from the start if we consider the tasks that apps use, but what it didn't do until iOS 4.0 is allow 3rd-party apps to run in the background. That means that 2 3rd-party apps were not allowed to hold resources in memory at the same time, but a 3rd-party app on-screen would still work with as many built-in apps as the OS saw fit to run. So what we're really talking about isn't multitasking or even multi-apping, but multi-third-party-apping… which sounds pretty damn ridiculous to me.
Edited by SolipsismX - 5/19/13 at 11:43am

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post #114 of 178
I have an iPhone 3GS, an iPad 2 and a Samsung Galaxy tab 2 7" running jelly bean. I can honestly say that the android tablet is the worst of the three. Even the 3GS runs apps such as BBC iplayer and other on demand tv services much better than the Tab 2. As for office apps, nothing on the android tablet comes even close to iWork on iOS.
post #115 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Spare me! Google changes their OS Android for the sole purpose of helping the cell phone maker sell new crap. It works simply like this.
Google keeps making a build of Android more complex than the last so it sucks a** on previous cell phone maker's hardware. It's a calculated effort between Google and the hardware guys.

I don't think it's done to screw the older phones. The OS has matured since Gingerbread, it's less toyish and more refined now. I admire how Apple can keep older phones up to date but that's something Android will have a difficult time with as long as there are manufacturers making low end phones and using a older version of Android.
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post #116 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) He didn't bring it up.

2) The distinction is quite simple. It's about the ability of the OS which means that iOS has been doing "true" multitasking since its inception.

3) Let's remember that it's multitasking not multi-apping, but even if we want to use that term (which I may have just invented) iOS was doing it from the start if we consider the tasks that apps use, but what it didn't do until iOS 4.0 is allow 3rd-party apps to run in the background. That means that 2 3rd-party apps were not allowed to hold resources in memory at the same time, but a 3rd-party app on-screen would still work with as many built-in apps as the OS saw fit to run. So what we're really talking about isn't multitasking or even multi-apping, but multi-third-party-apping… which sounds pretty damn ridiculous to me.

1. Sure he did. If it wasn't just his own personal definition I'd like to see where it came from. It could help end some silly claims from all sides.

 

2. It could be. Good luck with wide agreement outside of Apple-friendly blogs and forums.

 

3. Pretty much agree. I don't know why the distinction is important either.

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post #117 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

1. Sure he did.

No, he did. mercury99 is the one that said they can't do real multitasking.

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post #118 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


No, he did. mercury99 is the one that said they can't do real multitasking.

I'm pretty darn sure that Eric said Android won't multi-task according to the definition he offered. Read it again.

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post #119 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I'm pretty darn sure that Eric said Android won't multi-task according to the definition he offered. Read it again.

No, he said that Android will kill apps if needs RAM which would call into question whether it's real multitasking which is really in the same ball park as what Apple does by only allowing certain APIs for 3rd-party apps to run in the background and killing the apps if it needs the RAM. This is how a mobile OS should operate. Again, he was responding to mercury99's foolish comment that there is no real multitasking.

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #120 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

2. It could be. Good luck with wide agreement outside of Apple-friendly blogs and forums.

 

Interestingly, mercury99 failed to mention regarding the reference to a Wikipedia page where it states:

 

 

Quote:
"Before iOS 4, multitasking was limited to a selection of the applications Apple included on the device."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS#Multitasking

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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