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Apple created offshore subsidiaries to avoid paying billions in US taxes, Senate panel says - Page 2

post #41 of 132
Best remember the parable of the goose that laid the golden eggs...
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #42 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipdeedy View Post

Ireland is being unfairly singled out.

Ireland is one of many many countries that competes for the business of multinationals. It does so open and fairly. Other countries are free to follow suit.

In most cases it is not the Irish tax rate that is the main issue. Google for example made 9 billion in Europe last year. Those sales are predominantly organised through the European HQ in Dublin, which I should add employs 3,000 people, and before there's a tax cut they send 95% to Bermuda to a subsidiary that owns their IP for search, as allowed by US law.

Apple employs 4,000 people in Ireland. Yes, Ireland has a flexible corporate tax rate, but we are entitled to do so. Just as the US is entitled to change it's own rules to make it more difficult for US companies to avoid billions in tax.

Ireland is just lucky in that unlike other tax havens, Ireland is in the EU, speaks English and has a young well educated workforce. People can say what they like, but if it's just tax avoidance Apple wants, then there are many other places better suited to it.

 

Not necessarily, since as you said most of those comparable places remain outside the EU and hence, sales can not just be booked over there.

 

However, I do agree that Ireland is not to blame here. Ireland did what it did because it wants to attract foreign direct investment of exactly this kind. However, let's no kid ourselves... companies such as Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, etc go to Ireland because of the tax rate and the fact that it is EU member and not because of a qualified workforce which comes at high costs of labour, which essentially allows them to pay almost insignificant taxes on all EU sales.

 

Those kind of practices however remain to be dealt with by the EU (if at all) and has absolutely nothing to do with the US. The US however, could almost instantly boost their own economy by finally allowing multinational companies such as Apple to get their cash into their own country. We're talking about money that has been correctly taxed where it was earned, tax rates do not matter. What matters is that the US is essentially trying to double tax this money which is not only technically illegal it is also stupid and puts them at huge competitive disadvantage. We can see this with all big players, no one really likes bringing money back into the US.

 

I also believe this is terribly short sighted, because sooner or later this money will be invested and will therefore enter circulation benefitting the economy as a whole. Currently it remains somewhere across the globe.

 

With regards to these hearings, I believe they are terribly unfair, because there is nothing illegal happening here. If the government feels there is something wrong with current practices they are free to change the law in such a way to disallow this in the future. However, again, there is more benefit of actually giving incentives to bring cash back into the US rather then penalising.

Furthermore I am finding this unfair because there are other companies, such as Google which use tricks such as transfer of IP, which still remain legal however may be called immoral, whereas Apple to my knowledge doesn't.

post #43 of 132
Quote:
Senator Levin's website outlines the probe into Apple's tax practices...

 

Wait...do people actually go to Congress peoples' websites? Is Levin calculating that by venting online the public will be outraged at Apple - the company that sells such everyday, cool tech?

 

Yeah, okay, bub. Good luck with winning the popularity battle here.

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post #44 of 132

In the report, Apple details suggestions on how to improve corporate taxation. Tim willingly admitted that it would likely increase Apple's tax liability. That is preferable to a complex, convoluted code that encourages tax schemes and other avoidance.

post #45 of 132
How is possible some people is so foolish to not understand that if a corporation doesn't pay the taxes it should in the end the government takes the money from the people...
This wasn't happening at such level until some time ago.
Capitalism is getting sick...
post #46 of 132
Apple has not "Avoided" taxes, they have simply deferred taxes, the same as anyone who puts money in their 401K. Just as with your 401K when you move the cash from the 401K to your bank account, you owe the taxes, you hope at a lower rate. Apple used the same process. It borrowed money to pay individuals,much as one borrows money to buy a car rather than pulling cash out of a 401K. John McCain is an ignorant fool. I never though I would say that about him. SEven is a huge hypocrite. He represents the bailout capital of the world - Detroit GM) and michigan. At elast the big banks and GM paid their bailouts back, unlike GM. Not only did taxpayers get screwed, but also corproate bond holders. Google pays a rate much below Apple. Samedung probably sucks money out of the uS like a vacuum, but likely pays zero.

Without the smartphone revolution started by Apple, the US would still be in recession. 600,000 direct jobs created by Apple and the programmer community, with the multiplierr affect would equate to about 3 million jobs - that is over half the jobs created over the past 5 years. Apple should be praised, not demeaned. AI and otehr Apple blogs should facilitate a twiter /email campaign castigating the likes of these so called "servants of the people. Please publish twitter and email information so we can let them know the error of their ways.
post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Yeah, you're probably right. But I'm sure others like Microsoft, etc. are doing the same thing.

How does Samsung do it with the money they generate in other countries?  Are they hiding it from the South Korean government?

What's the tax rate if they brought in the money?  Does anyone know off the top of their heads?

The most they should ever charge, if they did might be 5 to 9%, which isn't that much, that's tolerable.  That's more like a sales tax if they sold the product to customer.
Samsung bribes. I think corps would pay 35% for bringing in revenues from overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Yep. The laws allow this to happen but Congress doesn't want to admit they created this mess.

And I'm still waiting for their proof of Apple's motives or that the money overseas came from the US
post #48 of 132

With it all being legal I don't see the issue. Other than tax reform in general which has long been overdue and is highlighted more by companies that DON'T pay any taxes (GE I'm looking at you) but rather get big fat government checks, also all legal.

post #49 of 132

USA politics is sometimes hard to understand.

- The main accuser here is a Republican. Wasn't the republican credo to lower taxes?

- Haven't Obama been fighting this issue (increased fiscal income) all these years with them, with bitter results?

- Isn't Apple doing exactly what's the heaven of free-market economies? Pursuing profits and paying the lower taxes they can, legally using the laws the accusers created?

- What's the deep argument here? If Apple makes 2/3 of its profits abroad; should they higher their prices in other countries to maintain profits, in that way americans can collect on the rest of the world pockets?

- Why Apple? Why not Microsoft, Google, Amazon, IBM, and all those American heroes that are doing exactly the same and some of them, before Apple?

- Hadn't the last Republican candidate been found of having the very same kind of offshore accounts they are now complaining that Apple has?

post #50 of 132

And I bought and wrote-off a new Macbook Pro for my business to avoid paying taxes too!  Big F#cking deal??  Should I be testifying in front of congress too??

Apple did nothing illegal.  Change the frickin laws...

post #51 of 132

Another righteous congress hearing, aimed to find "truth" but it's really just a show for witch hunt...which always leads back to themselves. Those idiots that made the rules cries about others taking advantages of them. Are we sure what we have is still democracy and they still represent us, the people?

post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Some of us pointed out that Cook made a mistake in agreeing to testify in front of these maroons. I hope we were not right. At a minimum, this is disastrous PR for Apple.

 

This is actually Good PR for Apple and bad PR for US law makers.  Apple has a huge business to run in a very competitive world market.

 

Just because US law makers are lazy, dumb and coerced by lobbyists  does not mean all US corporations should follow suit.

 

As long as these SOB law makers get their pay checks, they feel no responsibility to review and enhance laws to compete with foreign countries.

 

US law makers should be ashamed of themselves while the country's debt is so high.

If law makers worked for a company, they would get fired for not doing their job.


Edited by AppleSauce007 - 5/20/13 at 6:58pm
post #53 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post


Shoot, I avoid paying taxes every day. I rather pay for something on amazon and wait for it to ship to save on paying sales tax.

I legitimately want to pay as low a percentage of my income as Apple pays. The government will just use it to buy more drones to kill people

That is technically sales tax evasion in some states. Many people think it doesn't apply to online purchases. It isn't collected by a retailer if they have no physical presence in your state, as they would not be set up to collect sales tax there. It's generally still owed by you, but states do not have the resources to pursue everyone on such things. The other thing you've missed is that sales taxes are imposed by your state. They do not fund the military.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

And I bought and wrote-off a new Macbook Pro for my business to avoid paying taxes too!  Big F#cking deal??  Should I be testifying in front of congress too??

Apple did nothing illegal.  Change the frickin laws...

This is another silly argument that comes up in these threads. I don't feel like arguing about Apple here, but writing off direct expenses or depreciating equipment has nothing to do with the line of questioning. I suspect  you took the notebook as a section 179 expense. It's aimed at small businesses, and you are supposed to use that. You did not set up a foreign entity to buy the notebook and lease it back to you at an inflated rate. That would be an example of something that would be scrutinized. If they started to mess with the pricing paid from one subsidiary to another to move cash around, that would be scrutinized. There's a difference between writing expenses as expenses and fabricating them. Again this has nothing to do with accusations. I just wanted to point out your terrible analogy, which one person always makes anytime this topic comes up.

post #54 of 132
This is basically abusive use of government power! There is nothing what Apple or Google or Microsoft is doing is illegal! If this government keeps doing this crap all these companies will move to countries that provide better treatment of monies earned. Why do you thing Ireland provided special treatment to Apple and other companies? It improved their economy! As Tim mentioned his company create jobs in US and doing more now bringing back some manufacturing back to this country! And this is how we treat our companies who has done lot do the economy of this country!

Maybe all the companies should put aside their business differences for a while and support and fight this battle together and shutout all the politicians for what might be an illegal action they might be talking here.
post #55 of 132
Losers at congress!
Get the tax code fixed.. Dont blame the player for following the code and rules set by you congress!
post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mieswall View Post

USA politics is sometimes hard to understand.
- The main accuser here is a Republican. Wasn't the republican credo to lower taxes?
- Haven't Obama been fighting this issue (increased fiscal income) all these years with them, with bitter results?
- Isn't Apple doing exactly what's the heaven of free-market economies? Pursuing profits and paying the lower taxes they can, legally using the laws the accusers created?
- What's the deep argument here? If Apple makes 2/3 of its profits abroad; should they higher their prices in other countries to maintain profits, in that way americans can collect on the rest of the world pockets?
- Why Apple? Why not Microsoft, Google, Amazon, IBM, and all those American heroes that are doing exactly the same and some of them, before Apple?
- Hadn't the last Republican candidate been found of having the very same kind of offshore accounts they are now complaining that Apple has?
Huh? Carl Levin is not a republican. And I think most republicans wouldn't want to claim John McCain either. 1oyvey.gif
post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I hope Cook goes there and runs circles around these blowhards.

I doubt it. These are veteran blowhards, and they've seen lots of smart people with good answers before. It's hard to trump their arrogance, innuendoes, and venality. They are capable of turning almost anything against you. The media sheep simply run with it because they're not too smart and they have deadlines.

I predict a very rough day for AAPL tomorrow.
post #58 of 132
When you stupid bastards make laws with loopholes for your personal friends in business, don't condemn someone who will use your laws against you. If the law leaves a loophole that will let me shoot someone for breaking into my house, then I'm shooting the fool that breaks into my house. Don't come after me later for shooting the fool.

You write the laws. If you don't like it then change it.

My house has my laws. When my kids find the loophole, I damn well make changes.%u2026 and quickly too. ;-)
post #59 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucaseve View Post

How is possible some people is so foolish to not understand that if a corporation doesn't pay the taxes it should in the end the government takes the money from the people...
This wasn't happening at such level until some time ago.
Capitalism is getting sick...

How is it possible that some people are so foolish that they don't understand that Apple is not avoiding the taxes it should pay. There is NO allegation that Apple has paid less tax then legally required, so they're not avoiding anything.

Well, I suppose you could say that they're avoiding turning over all of their money voluntarily to the government, but that would be a ridiculous thing to say.
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post #60 of 132
And of course we should have absolute trust that our politicians are telling us the truth. Given a choice between trusting a member of congress and Tim Cook I would have to say the latter would be the better choice. :-)
post #61 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post

If it was Illegal, politicians would have spend the money like it has always done to create nothing. It is better that corporations hold money than our government. I would love to get the same preference but our power is so small in front of these Criminals (government). At least we can invest in companies who win against government!

Has government ever made money? They only created one thing in US    "HUGE DEBT- Made In America"

I do not like either party. They are all criminals in one way or the other 1smile.gif

You are exactly right, it does not matter what party is currently in the majority as they are both bought and paid for. The government pits American against American by using class warfare and other means to take the focus off of them. Ever wonder why there are no poor senators or congressman? Politicians focus one one thing , getting re-elected. They do this by taking bribes from lobbyists and using strong-arm tactics like this. if Apple were to have contributed a little more to their campaigns or would have backed down from the e-book pricing case, they would not be the focus of these hearings. But they didn't so Congress is putting the screws to them.
post #62 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010 View Post

Unfortunately this is a political witch hunt. Because Apple is very profitable, Apple will be found guilty of hiding billions of taxes, then Apple would appeal, and end up paying a small token penalty and the show will drag on for month. Apple gain nothing to testify and should just say we are sorry and we have been doing this for years and we are ready to negotiate the price being the most valuable company.

 

That would lend credence to the idea that Apple become Too Big To Go Unpunished.

OTOH, Wall Street Investment banks that become Too Big To Fail get a taxpayer bailout.

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post #63 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

As mentioned above, Google are doing the same thing.

 

Yes, but Android is "open" and Google gives free geek candy and they're not evil, so you can't make anything stick to them, ever. /s

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post #64 of 132
Isn't it nice how the Democrates get your vote and once in office screw you over royally! The last thing we need in this country is more taxes going to the welfare crowd.
post #65 of 132
The big problem is that Apple worked to get these fools elected in the first place. Nothing like getting stabbed in the back helping out the wrong people. Sadly we have nothing but a bunch of greedy clowns in DC now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The Senate report is a snow job, full of innuendoes. Apple has, indeed, paid all taxes owed on US pre-tax income. Problems in Ireland are Ireland's problem, not the US's. This is all fundamentally the result of a messed-up tax code created by the Congress.

But who cares.

Some of us pointed out that Cook made a mistake in agreeing to testify in front of these maroons. I hope we were not right. At a minimum, this is disastrous PR for Apple.

You have to stand up to this idiocy. The government is unfortunately piloted by morons that actually believe in wealth redistribution to the lazy and unemployable.
post #66 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The point is (and this is the crux of the problem), Apple and many other companies are recognizing revenue in Ireland that there is no way they actually generated in Ireland, and they are recognizing the revenue there purely because Ireland have a very low rate of Corporate tax.

There is no chance Apple actually did $30bn of revenue in a country of 4.6 million between 2009-2012 (especially considering the Irish economy was dying at the time), but that is what they reported and it would equate to $1630 per year over that period for every person in Ireland.  That is in a country with an average pre-tax income of $45,000.  It's just not sensible to believe that every person in Ireland is spending 3.5% of their income on Apple products every year.

I don't doubt Apples reporting was perfectly legal and above board, because within the European Union, you can book sales in one country even if they are made in another (Starbucks, Google, Amazon all do the same).  The question is, why do our politicians allow it to be legal?

Welcome to the EU. Clusterfxxk of laws and rules, money burning bureaucracy, while reducing democracy.


Hmm that sounds like a great book title 1smile.gif
post #67 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post

And why does anyone care what anyone in Congress has to say? This is fresh... pick on the most successful American company in history and accuse them of (gasp) following the law as written. My god, are they now saying there is a "higher moral obligation" to pay taxes that are above and beyond what is required by the IRS? And if so, why are you singling out Apple and not every other corporation in America?

 

These so-called "senators" are nothing but a clown show and should be treated as such.

 

Clowns? These people are worse than clowns. So predictable to see McCain attach himself to yet another "cause" in order to attention-whore himself. This pathetic sac of garbage should have rode into the sunset long ago, yet it seems he's desperate to define some sort of "legacy" for himself by exploiting anything and everything he can for cheap political points. This is the same fuckface that brought us Sarah Palin, and was cool with her potentially becoming President of the United States. Thats how much this guy gives a shit about this country. This is the same guy who called a press conference calling for Benghazi "answers", during which he skipped a hearing he was invited to which was meant to give those answers. The guy can't shut the **** up about Benghazi, yet he didnt utter a single word blaming the gvt for the thousands murdered on american soil, or the clusterfuck that was Iraq where thousands of americans also died. But suddenly he gives a shit about 3 dead americans across the world when it suits his political needs. This guy wants to lecture Apple?

 

"A company that has found remarkable success by harnessing American ingenuity and the opportunities afforded by the U.S. economy should not be shifting its profits overseas to avoid the payment of U.S. tax, purposefully depriving the American people of revenue."

 

What the **** does that even mean? Apple found remarkable success by being remarkable. What does "American ingenuity" have to do with it? Shifting it's profits overseas? Apple does not shift a single fucking dollar it earns in the US overseas. The $$ it EARNS overseas, it has full rights to keep it there. Besides the record amount of tax dollars Apple gives the US, it has CREATED enormous wealth and employment through not only it's Apple stores, but the countless companies who exist today solely to provide for Apple's ecosystem, be it accessories for Apple's hardware products, or developers. Apple is one of those companies who's success empowers and enables the success of others. Yet these vindictive fucks, like McCain, couldn't give 2 shits about that, preferring to skewer the company to get themselves into the limelight. The fact that Tim Cook is attending this hearing will bring it infinitely more publicity than it should. At the end of the day, I don't see him coming out as a winner. These senators are more practised at this dog and pony show, which is exactly what this is, and their propaganda and twisting of the truth in order to promote themselves will outweigh the facts themselves, and any sort of reason and beneficial reform that Cook might put forward. 

post #68 of 132
So they guys making the rules for the game are now claiming "No Fair" because they or their predecessors made loopholes for their friends?

Maybe congress should take their ball and go home like a bunch of whining babies. I'm so sick of US Congress, the most mismanaged entity in the world, demanding more money because they can't balance a checkbook. My grandkids are going to be paying for today's Congress' mistakes.

I hope some chest-thumping congressman makes an ass out of himself in the morning and it's on CNN by noon. Someone please DVR it and upload it.
post #69 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Isn't it nice how the Democrates get your vote and once in office screw you over royally! The last thing we need in this country is more taxes going to the welfare crowd.

 

I'm not American, but isn't Senator McCain a Republican? I daresay that any extra revenue that the US Government collects from this will not be going towards public welfare, more likely the military or to corporate welfare.

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post #70 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

This is another silly argument that comes up in these threads. I don't feel like arguing about Apple here, but writing off direct expenses or depreciating equipment has nothing to do with the line of questioning. I suspect  you took the notebook as a section 179 expense. It's aimed at small businesses, and you are supposed to use that. You did not set up a foreign entity to buy the notebook and lease it back to you at an inflated rate. That would be an example of something that would be scrutinized. If they started to mess with the pricing paid from one subsidiary to another to move cash around, that would be scrutinized. There's a difference between writing expenses as expenses and fabricating them. Again this has nothing to do with accusations. I just wanted to point out your terrible analogy, which one person always makes anytime this topic comes up.


Nonsense.  It's a valid argument.  I'm doing what I can to minimize my tax-hit so I buy stuff to lower my taxable gross income.  I buy a laptop, some buy hummers, all reduce their tax exposure.  Do I (they) need it?  Not really.  It it legal?  Sure.  Is it morally correct?  Grey area.  I could have just pretend to be patriotic and just pay more taxes so that the money goes to needed services, military, of Congress' fat a$$.  That's what people think Apple should do.

Apple did nothing wrong, it did nothing illegal.  Congress is simply whoring themselves to the media to justify their jobs.  That's all.  I wished Tim Cook would just stand there and give them all the middle-finger.  They have nothing on him, and they know it.

post #71 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

The point is (and this is the crux of the problem), Apple and many other companies are recognizing revenue in Ireland that there is no way they actually generated in Ireland, and they are recognizing the revenue there purely because Ireland have a very low rate of Corporate tax.

...

I don't doubt Apples reporting was perfectly legal and above board, because within the European Union, you can book sales in one country even if they are made in another (Starbucks, Google, Amazon all do the same).  The question is, why do our politicians allow it to be legal?

There's actually two problems, of which only one is under the control of the US.

The first problem, the one the US can't control, but is their fault, is the low tax rate in Ireland. Go take a look at which European countries needed or almost needed bailouts. Ireland is one of those. Now WHY is that? Because they seem hellbent on being "competitive" and they know damn well the only reason anyone sets up companies there is because of the low tax rate. If they were to suddenly raise the tax rates, those companies would move to the next stable country with a low tax rate.

That's no different than the reason companies in the US pick states with the lowest tax rates to setup in.

The second problem is double-taxation, and I can't figure out why any country does it. It makes no sense to tax income of a foreign entity for income earned by the foreign entity. All software companies already know that it's easy to setup a company in a foreign low-tax market and assign all the IP to that company, thereby all the income on sales is earned by that company. Repatriation of that money never needs to happen, because as far as legal jurisdictions go, that income wasn't earned by the domestic branch of the company. So it makes no sense to tax income that was already taxed in the legal jurisdiction it was earned in.

How that needs to be fixed, is a long and complicated process, but the gist of fixing the problem has to start with closing the same loopholes rich people have used to hide their wealth. Apple wouldn't be doing this if other companies and individuals weren't, and that comes down to competitive reasons, not "moral" ones. The solution really needs to be either:
a) that money can never be repatriated (those foreign companies are legally not in the US) and that money can only be sent to the US by the foreign company "paying" the parent company for services/licences, by which that money is then treated as income again to the US parent company. (which is where we are at now)
or
b) The US demands all offshore subsidiaries to be closed or be made independent of their "parent" company. Thus legally there are no offshore companies from which to "hide" income with. The offshore companies are basically turned into income trusts by which the parent owns 100% of, but has no control over. Since the owner would be collecting revenue from the foreign company, that would be subject to US tax rules.

But I have no faith in the US political system to fix anything, and what we're staring at is the elephant in the room.
post #72 of 132
Senators want to pick on Apple? Perhaps they should just call it an "Apple tax" lol.gif

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post #73 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynic View Post

Those kind of practices however remain to be dealt with by the EU (if at all) and has absolutely nothing to do with the US.

In nuce.

post #74 of 132

The one thing that stands out is that for all their posturing, this committee hasn't dared used the phrase 'tax evasion.' If they can't say 'tax evasion' then they don't have a leg to stand on. 

 

What they are hoping to do is fix an idea in the public mind that 'tax avoidance' is illegal, which is completely untrue. So, this is nothing more than an attempt to shame Apple into paying more tax than it is legally required to do (it worked in the UK with Starbucks).

 

Why are they targeting Apple, and not Google, or Microsoft or GE?

 

Well, I hate to say this but I think that Tim Cook's actions regarding loans and dividend payouts have made him look like a CEO who can be easily swayed by external influences.

 

He has the chance to redress this tomorrow. If he fails then government bodies and investment analysts will spend the next ten years picking Apple clean.

post #75 of 132

Amazing reactions in this thread :D

 

Apple could be caught stealing babies and this place would defend them.

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post #76 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

 

 

Well, there's the great irony. The same people calling Apple out on this issue are the same people who wrote the damned tax laws to begin with. All they need to do is legislate a fix to the "problem" they created, right?

 

Except THAT would then deprive them of income (and campaign contributions) they enjoy today, gained so often from the people and companies practicing exactly the same behavior as Apple (and Google). 

 

It's a sideshow. Apple is a convenient whipping post. They'll make a bunch of "caring about revenue" noise, then this too shall pass...

 

Anything and everything except doing what really needs to be done. Raising taxes on people like Mitt Romney for starters, so they pay a fair share of taxes (I mean, come on. Net 12%? On millions? I'd LOVE to pay only 12% on my income!). We need to close a few loopholes, and tighten up the revenue ship.

 

One of the problems is Apple ( and Google et. al) don't buy off Congressmen. Apples pays 35% on it's revenues in the US, thats all it owes legally. REvenue accrued outside the US, has never been an issue for the US treasury. Meanwhile vast swathes of US industry are molly-coddled, too big to fail, or subsidized when they fail, and Apple pays for a lot of that with its taxes. Congress never investigates that kind of thing because the rent-seekers depend on government, so they pay off Congressmen to turn a blind eye

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post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Amazing reactions in this thread :D

 

Apple could be caught stealing babies and this place would defend them.

 

What is Apple doing which is wrong?

 

By the way neither Apple, ( nor Google, nor Amazon) owe the UK a red cent. The campaign against all these companies in the UK is absurd nonsense. 

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post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

What is Apple doing which is wrong?

 

By the way neither Apple, ( nor Google, nor Amazon) owe the UK a red cent. The campaign against all these companies in the UK is absurd nonsense. 

 

If they are doing nothing wrong then why are you leaping to defend them?  That's what's funny about the reaction.  Precious Apple is under attack from the big bad bureaucrats.  The big bad bureaucrats who are incapable of doing anything anyway?  And Apple create jobs!  And other companies are financially creative too!  And FU Europe!

 

No one even mentioned the UK,  "By the way"  lol.gif

 

 

A question to those with Apple in their hearts and loins... why do you think you need to defend Apple?  They seem to be doing pretty well; and they're not going to thank you.

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post #79 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

 

If they are doing nothing wrong then why are you leaping to defend them?  That's what's funny about the reaction.  Precious Apple is under attack from the big bad bureaucrats.  The big bad bureaucrats who are incapable of doing anything anyway?  And Apple create jobs!  And other companies are financially creative too!  And FU Europe!

 

No one even mentioned the UK,  "By the way"  lol.gif

 

 

A question to those with Apple in their hearts and loins... why do you think you need to defend Apple?  They seem to be doing pretty well; and they're not going to thank you.

I have attacked Apple plenty of times in this forum, and have been labelled a "troll" even though I have been here since 2003. Do a quick search of recent posts, where I attack the present management. Most of the last posts have been critical. I've gotten more critical this year, in fact.

 

On this issue I would defend them, (and Google, Amazon or MicroSoft), particularly against predatory British bureaucrats.  ( American senators have some logic, the British claim on Irish tax is absurd).  I mentioned Britain because you are British, and was responding to you.

 

Also, an adhominem is not a debate. You claimed that Apple is doing something wrong. To prove it you need to state what you think is wrong, so an actual debate can ensue. 

 

Instead you engaged in two logical fallacies - ad hominem  you ( is AI) would always defend Apple and redudcto ad absudrum  even if they stole babies.

 

So get an argument.

I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

Shoot, I avoid paying taxes every day. I rather pay for something on amazon and wait for it to ship to save on paying sales tax.
You realize that sales tax is a state issue. Some states don't even have a sales tax.
Quote:
I legitimately want to pay as low a percentage of my income as Apple pays. The government will just use it to buy more drones to kill people

If that was the only thing they used it for I'd be all for more taxes. Each time they cook off one of those hellfire missiles the world is improved a little bit more.
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