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Haswell chips could bring 50% more battery life to Apple's next-gen MacBooks - Page 3

post #81 of 104
It could mean improved battery life, but knowing Apple it just means they'll cut the battery size in order to make the silly thing 1mm thinner.
post #82 of 104
Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post
It could mean improved battery life, but knowing Apple it just means they'll cut the battery size in order to make the silly thing 1mm thinner.

 

Why, when actually knowing Apple you'd know they pride themselves on battery life?

post #83 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

The chip will also bring 50% more battery life to competing laptops. I wish Apple would stop concentrating on how thin they can make something. Make it 2mm thicker and give me an all day battery.
Maybe this would allow the return of the Ethernet port as well.
post #84 of 104
Originally Posted by vman815 View Post
Maybe this would allow the return of the Ethernet port as well.

 

Return? No.

post #85 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Is the wattage coming from the cig lighter port powerful enough to charge the battery effectively?

 

Oh yeah, and then some. A cigarette lighter is a high current device. You could run two or three Macs from one cigarette lighter.

 

Inverters are horribly inefficient, but that's what I've been forced to use. I avoid blown fuses by using a decent quality unit rated for way more than I'll ever need.

post #86 of 104
Speaking of the new Haswell chip Acer has an odd All-in-One coming out soon according to reports, and muddies the line between the mobile and desktop world. It will supposedly sell for $400, use an i5 Haswell processor and memory-wise offer a piddling 1GB RAM and and as little as 8GB ROM.

How is that possible you might ask? Rather than running the high-overhead Windows 8x, it's OS will be . . . . Android according to the stories??

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/pc/acer-s-haswell-pc-shuns-windows-in-favour-of-android-1155596?src=rss&attr=all
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post #87 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

 

...because you just buy a new computer instead. I presume that when your tires wear out you just buy a new car?

 

 

Actually, no. The longest I've kept a laptop around was six years (a Dell Inspiron 8100), before passing it along to a family member. The battery held on just fine until the end, when it dropped to a 30-minute runtime (I originally ordered it with the higher cell-count battery when I bought it).

 

If you read the post you replied to carefully, you'd notice that *if* the battery became a problem, even on the unibodies, I would simply replace it at that time. The only cost to me would be the new battery. (Note that I've replaced 'pouch' style batteries before, albeit on PDAs... it's pretty simple to knock out.)

post #88 of 104

Haswell chips are now available for desktops and laptops.  Desktop chips in stock at Newegg, and a couple of smaller players have announced laptops.
 

Edited to add linky-link

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2040540/asus-other-pc-makers-announce-laptops-desktops-with-intel-haswell-chips.html

post #89 of 104
post #90 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Links for your reading pleasure. I don't see a processor suitable for the AIRs in this release though, at least from what ie seen so far. I will add to the list as articles are found.

Haswell Info:
  1. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/03/feature_inside_haswell_intel_4g_core/

That link doesn't detail the U and Y-series chips for Ultrabook-class machines and tablets. Are those not arriving this month?

edit: It does look like it: http://ark.intel.com/#MobileProducts
Edited by SolipsismX - 6/3/13 at 8:52am

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post #91 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That link doesn't detail the U and Y-series chips for Ultrabook-class machines and tablets. Are those not arriving this month?
Well that is the problem I don't know for sure. If you go to www.cpu-world.com you will find that they expect shipments in September. This does not jive of course with Rumors or AIRs dying up in the supply chain.

Of course prerelease info is subject to change. This is why I waited until now to begin this list as tomorrow we will have the detail that we need to understand what is (possibly) coming from Apple. The world outside of Intel could be completely wrong but there has been plenty of "hints" that some of the low power solutions would come late.
Quote:
edit: It does look like it: http://ark.intel.com/#MobileProducts

Which makes you wonder if scheduling has changed or if Apple will put a higher power chip in the AIRs. I thought the AIR have been designed around 17 watt chips so that kinda limits what can go into the machine. Haswell does fantastic in low power modes but still has significant power usage when running in a more normal mode. Apple could give us a machine, with a higher wattage chip, that throttles often under heavy load but works nicely for spurts of processing work.

In any event I hope by the time I leave work tomorrow there will be plenty of detail in the net. Maybe Intel will spill a few beans for Apple.
post #92 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

In any event I hope by the time I leave work tomorrow there will be plenty of detail in the net. Maybe Intel will spill a few beans for Apple.

How about before you even get to work? 1biggrin.gif

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post #93 of 104

Curious are you going to buy the new MBP with Haswell when they come out or airs?
 

post #94 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How about before you even get to work? 1biggrin.gif


Unfortunately a rough day at work yesterday so I'm in catch up mode. However I must say I'm impressed with what has been released so far, to put it mildly it is more than I expected due to the rumors of a September release for some of those chips. I'm a bit concerned that some of the U models delete a lot of hardware that might be of use by various individuals. Will need to read up on that.

In any event it will be very interesting to see which of these dual core releases makes it into each of the AIRs. Further it will be very interesting to see if driver issues get resolved. All the GPU hardware in the world won't solve a thing if the drivers can't leverage that hardware.

Beyond the AIRs it looks like there are plenty of chips to bump other product lines. Unfortunately Intel went stupid with its desktop chips and only has a limited number of GT3 supporting chips. I'm not sure if there is a good "Mini" chip in the bunch.
post #95 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Curious are you going to buy the new MBP with Haswell when they come out or airs?

 

To whom are you talking to Marv?

If it is me, well honestly I can't answer your question right now as I haven't made up my mind. Further I may just do another iPad update this year and push off to next year a Mac update.

As far as Macs go I'm actually tempted by the Mini as one of my uses would be better served by a desktop. As we all know I do wish that the Mini was a bit more than it is. Because of its shortcomings I can see myself being pushed into a laptop again. I could see an AIR if I could get over my reluctance to limit myself to dual cores, but the reality is cores do make a difference in the apps I use. If I went laptop I'd have to think long and hard about an AIR.

The interesting thing here is that CPU performance isn't stellar on many of these chips released, I'm even seeing reports of a few steps backwards on some platforms. This isn't really surprising as Intel has highly optimized for the GPU in many cases. The bench markers should have a field day with these machines though, in some cases we should see excellent improvements.

Of course with Apple you have the issue of drivers which frankly in Mac OS sucks. The drivers don't perform that well and often are stuck supporting legacy standards. I'm actually hoping WWDC will highlight vastly improved drivers for Mac OS. In this case I'm talking all drivers not just Intel and hope that standards like OpenGL, OpenCL and the like get supported in their latest versions with the next Mac OS rev.

So to answer your questions I don't know! That probably isn't the precise answer you wanted but most likely there will be a new Mac in my collection before the end of the year. Maybe before the end of the year as my MBP has been demonstrating its age recently. It just isn't a given that it will be a laptop either.
post #96 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Ooh! Back on the Intel hype train, are we? All aboard! Next stop: It'd Be Nice If It Were True Like They Claimed A Few Years Ago, But We Probably Won't Suffer Too Much If It Isn't And As Long As They Don't Switch To iGPUs Across The Entire Lineup…ville.

 

It would be great if Apple could pitch the MacBook Air as having 10-12 hours of battery.

That's quite succinct, exactly what I was thinking. I hope Apple doesn't use Haswells better iGPU performance as an excuse to drop discreet cards in the base 15" models, in fact I hope they go the other way, give the 13" a nice quad core and GT3e, while giving the 15" an updated discreet GPU (765M like the Razer Blade 14" already uses at equivalent thinness uses would be nice. ). 

 

And I fail to see how the battery life would be improved by 50% if the CPU constitutes so much less than that in power draw, the LCD is the bulk of the power draw in modern systems usually at over half already, then the motherboard and DIMMS take some, the CPU would be nowhere near 50% of the draw to start with so how can just the CPU improve things by 50%? 

Then again Haswell is bringing some motherboard components on-chip. We'll see, I guess. 
 

post #97 of 104
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post
…giving the 15" an updated discreet GPU (765M like the Razer Blade 14" already uses at equivalent thinness uses would be nice. ).

 

As long as the TDP is near-equivalent to what we have right now, that sounds fine.

 

I can't find the 765M on the wiki page. Is it a new chip?

post #98 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

That's quite succinct, exactly what I was thinking. I hope Apple doesn't use Haswells better iGPU performance as an excuse to drop discreet cards in the base 15" models, in fact I hope they go the other way, give the 13" a nice quad core and GT3e, while giving the 15" an updated discreet GPU (765M like the Razer Blade 14" already uses at equivalent thinness uses would be nice. 

I hope you're right and it's done to help differentiate the MBAs from the MBPs once the MBA's go Retina, but at this point I don't think that it is likely the 13" MBP will get a dGPU since no 13" has ever had it. The last time Apple used a dGPU at or below that size was in the 12" PB.

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post #99 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

As long as the TDP is near-equivalent to what we have right now, that sounds fine.
The interesting thing here is that TDP is nearly identical on the chips released today for the various ones likely to end up in Apple hardware. The U series loose a couple of watts. What makes these chips impressive is their ability to drop into and out of lower energy states very quickly and far more often than past Intel chips. This lead to vastly lower power usage on lightly loaded systems.

So while running flat out the chips use just as much if not more power than previous models like Ivy Bridge. After all if the TDP is the same then the maxed out power usages will be very similar. The Haswell trick is that few systems ever run maxed out. As such the CPU can cut power usage by a surprising amount.
Quote:
I can't find the 765M on the wiki page. Is it a new chip?

Did you check NVidia's site?

One thing with Haswell, the benchmarking community is likely to be all over the map with these parts. Some will even see worst performance as far as battery lifetimes go. For Apple buyers it is probably best to wait to see how a specific machine fares when it comes out. At least after a bit of testing on the net you will know what to expect.
post #100 of 104
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Did you check NVidia's site?

 

I didn't, because they never list power draw. In checking it now, I find the chip… but no power draw. lol.gif

 

I'll check a benchmark site; they often list charts of that.

post #101 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I didn't, because they never list power draw. In checking it now, I find the chip… but no power draw. lol.gif

I'll check a benchmark site; they often list charts of that.

I've just done a bit of reading up on the Haswell and it looks like it will be an excellent processor up grade if you are looking to extend battery life or need getter GPU performance. Better is relative to existing Intel GPUs though. Haswell still eaves a lot to be desired GPU performance wise though.

In the end though this will be a huge impact on the AIR's. They should perform vastly better than existing AIRs to the point it will be like a new product.
post #102 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I didn't, because they never list power draw. In checking it now, I find the chip… but no power draw. lol.gif

 

I'll check a benchmark site; they often list charts of that.

 

 

It's a ~50 watt GPU. I guess they may go one rung lower to keep the wattage lower, maybe 750M which would be the same power draw as the 650 in the current 15". But these new Nvidia chips work differently, the manufacturer actually sets the TDP limits. Like you know how the rMBP 15" had a higher clocked 650M than the regular, and in fact higher than many 660Ms? They could do that the other way here, a 765M could turbo boost up to its maximum clock speeds when the cooling allowed it, while still staying nicely in the thermal confines whenever needed with the custom TDP. Haswell chips will do this as well, making things very interesting in the notebook space as cooling now even more directly affects performance, not just with throttling but with how long things stay in turbo boost states. 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6998/razer-announces-haswellbased-blade-blade-pro-gaming-notebooks

 

 

Quote:
If you’re counting, that’s a 37W CPU and a 50-60W GPU
 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I hope you're right and it's done to help differentiate the MBAs from the MBPs once the MBA's go Retina, but at this point I don't think that it is likely the 13" MBP will get a dGPU since no 13" has ever had it. The last time Apple used a dGPU at or below that size was in the 12" PB.
 

I don't think it will either, like I said my best hope is the 15"s all getting upgraded discreet GPUs, and the 13" getting that special integrated but still good performing GT3e part which some mystery system maker requested. My thinking was that if something like the above, in just an inch bigger diagonally and nearly as thin and light can house an entire 765M and have 6 hours battery life under normal use, surely the 13" rMBP (or regular) could use a cTDP limited GT3e paired with a quad. It may lose power more quickly under load, but Haswell would let it sip juice under most mobile use cases. 


Edited by tipoo - 6/6/13 at 9:07am
post #103 of 104

And see, there's already an ultrabook class laptop with that special part with a 28 watt TDP combined with GT3/Intel Iris graphics. 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7035/asus-zenbook-infinity-hands-on-with-the-most-beautiful-notebook-at-computex

T
he 13" MBP using that would be interesting. 

post #104 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

And see, there's already an ultrabook class laptop with that special part with a 28 watt TDP combined with GT3/Intel Iris graphics. 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7035/asus-zenbook-infinity-hands-on-with-the-most-beautiful-notebook-at-computex


T
he 13" MBP using that would be interesting. 

That indeed would make for an interesting 13" rMBP.

One problem with these new chips is all of their different power savings modes. It makes quantifying how well any one implementation will work for you difficult. You can see this in benchmarks that are over the place. In the end people will just have to try a machine out I also expect that we will see more driver updates than usual.
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