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Samsung, Google to scale back giant screen sizes on new Android phones - Page 3

post #81 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

So the bigger screen is to make room for the bigger battery does not well........require a bigger battery? Your logic is not sound......

The bigger screen is going to consume more power.

 

The flaw in your analysis is that, yes, a bigger screen will consume more power, but not all of the "more power" the larger battery can supply. So, yes, you lose some to the screen but you gain overall.

 

Big batteries are how Android devices got decent battery life times, and the way they got big batteries was by getting bigger cases, which required bigger screens to not look stupid. (Because, if you increase the size of your device in depth, it looks clunky, so you have to increase the breadth to keep it looking thin.)

post #82 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

... So at least 39% of all smartphones sold in the UK that quarter were 4" or larger. (No doubt there are more that did not make the top ten, such as the Note).

 

Including the Note, we can guess that at least 20% of all UK sales were 4.3" or above.  And certainly if Apple had a larger screen, some sales would go into this category as well.

 

Is that a majority?  No way. Still, is that many sales a good enough submarket for Apple to go after?   That's the question.   

 

It's always fun to have a little numerical sophistry from KDarling

post #83 of 134
There's a 6" Galaxy S4 Mega too!! Geesh. Where's the Mega-mini?

Video here showing the Mega, Mini and regular S4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=efE2k2gGFPM
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post #84 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

The flaw in your analysis is that, yes, a bigger screen will consume more power, but not all of the "more power" the larger battery can supply. So, yes, you lose some to the screen but you gain overall.

 

Big batteries are how Android devices got decent battery life times, and the way they got big batteries was by getting bigger cases, which required bigger screens to not look stupid. (Because, if you increase the size of your device in depth, it looks clunky, so you have to increase the breadth to keep it looking thin.)

oh...c'mon....really? That is the ONLY reason Android phones have been moving to larger screens? In your opinion...it is because they have such flawed power management that they HAVE to go to bigger screens to hide a larger battery? Wow.......all the people buying the larger screen phones...well they have all been duped. They bought their phones not because they WANTED a bigger screen but because it was well the ONLY choice they could have made! It was the ONLY phone available. Wow according to you people that buy large screen phones did it because it was the only phone available to them. The phone makers pulled one over on them huh? Instead of giving the consumer a larger screen phone because it was what they wanted.......it was because that was all the phone manufacturers could produce? So Samsung is making the 5 inch Galaxy S4...not because people WANT a larger phone but because it is to hide the bigger battery?

So then following your logic....the S4 mini will havre far far more battery life correct? Then following your logic....the iPhone 4  and iPhone 3G should better battery life than the iPhone 5? Your logic falls apart really fast.....People want larger screens on their phones.....not everyone.....but some do.......the phone companies are making larger screen phones because that is what the consumer is buying........ 

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post #85 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

The flaw in your analysis is that, yes, a bigger screen will consume more power, but not all of the "more power" the larger battery can supply. So, yes, you lose some to the screen but you gain overall.

 

Big batteries are how Android devices got decent battery life times, and the way they got big batteries was by getting bigger cases, which required bigger screens to not look stupid. (Because, if you increase the size of your device in depth, it looks clunky, so you have to increase the breadth to keep it looking thin.)

So all the millions of people buying larger screen phones.....are really just after a larger battery? Consumer choice has nothing to do with it?

The Android phone makers just put out large screen phones...and people buy them by the millions......wow and to think it was just to cover up a larger battery......

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post #86 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

oh...c'mon....really? That is the ONLY reason Android phones have been moving to larger screens? In your opinion...it is because they have such flawed power management that they HAVE to go to bigger screens to hide a larger battery? ...

 

So then following your logic....the S4 mini will havre far far more battery life correct? Then following your logic....the iPhone 4  and iPhone 3G should better battery life than the iPhone 5? Your logic falls apart really fast.....

 

As to your first point, yes, that's what started the trend to bigger screens.

 

As to your second point, well, it doesn't seem rational, so I'm at a loss as to how one could even begin to respond. All I can say is that what you label as "your logic" has no connection, logical or otherwise, with anything I wrote.

post #87 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

The flaw in your analysis is that, yes, a bigger screen will consume more power, but not all of the "more power" the larger battery can supply. So, yes, you lose some to the screen but you gain overall.

 

Big batteries are how Android devices got decent battery life times, and the way they got big batteries was by getting bigger cases, which required bigger screens to not look stupid. (Because, if you increase the size of your device in depth, it looks clunky, so you have to increase the breadth to keep it looking thin.)

 

If I understand your post correctly, you are saying that a wider battery can more than compensate for the increased power consumption of a correspondingly larger display. But if that's the case, how does one explain Tim Cook's remark (quoted from the original article) that "Customers are clearly looking at the size," he said, "but they also look at things like...battery life...."? 

post #88 of 134
I can understand why other companies want to do this because majority of consumers prefer a screen size of 4 inches, a size they can use with one hand easily. Majority of android phones that are 4.7 inches and bigger don't fit inside pockets and are almost impossible to use with one hand. If you ask consumers which do you prefer more in terms of screen size between the iphone 5 and samsung galaxy s4, the overwhelming majority will choose the iphone 5, 4 inch screen size.
post #89 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

 

As to your first point, yes, that's what started the trend to bigger screens.

 

As to your second point, well, it doesn't seem rational, so I'm at a loss as to how one could even begin to respond. All I can say is that what you label as "your logic" has no connection, logical or otherwise, with anything I wrote.

Do you have sources for that? Or is that just your opinion? Sales of the Samsung Galaxy S4 well over 10 million now is not because people WANT a larger screen on their phones but because.....they had no other choice? What consumes the most power on a smartphone? The display does....... But by your statement. Android phone makers could not produce enough power for the small screen phones. So to make up for this they made the biggest power drain on the battery bigger? They made bigger screens to hide the bigger battery? But then wouldn't the problem then scale up as well?

Edit: BTW.....i had the HTC EVO 4G on Sprint when it came out in 2010. It had terrible battery life and only last about 4 hours of normal use for me. My Galaxy S4 with a 5 inch screen last a little over 24 hours of normal use for me.....


Edited by geekdad - 5/31/13 at 8:41am

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post #90 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

So at least 39% of all smartphones sold in the UK that quarter were 4" or larger. (No doubt there are more that did not make the top ten, such as the Note).

Is that a majority?  No way. Still, is that many sales a good enough submarket for Apple to go after?   That's the question.

The important comparison is really 4.5" or above vs everything else. It looks like 15% above vs 45% below in the figures you posted and the rest unknown as it's split between so many manufacturers. Given that all Android manufacturers besides Samsung are only making 5% of Android phone profits while matching the volume combined, it's likely their sales are lower end and they tend not to be larger models.

Assuming it's a ratio of 3:1 in favour of smaller phones, Apple could potentially increase sales by 1/3 by making a bigger phone. However, that is missing out the fact that flagship Android devices are cheaper than Apple's whereas Apple's bigger version would cost either the same or more than their current ones and have almost nothing to differentiate it from the other ones.

The fact that Samsung had to bring out a Galaxy S4 Mini shows that people felt the S4 was too large. The guy from the Three network mentioned that some customers had requested a smaller phone. There's not really much difference between them either - no extra screen content etc:



Tim Cook addressed the issue of having a single model at D11 and said their current strategy has worked out well for them. Sometimes I think the reason people want Apple to bring out a larger phone is to turn round and say that Apple was wrong and they are following Samsung after they pioneered larger devices just like they tried to do with the iPad Mini. The reality is that Samsung is following Apple again by bringing out a smaller S4 and a wider 8" Galaxy Note.
post #91 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


The important comparison is really 4.5" or above vs everything else. It looks like 15% above vs 45% below in the figures you posted and the rest unknown as it's split between so many manufacturers. Given that all Android manufacturers besides Samsung are only making 5% of Android phone profits while matching the volume combined, it's likely their sales are lower end and they tend not to be larger models.

Assuming it's a ratio of 3:1 in favour of smaller phones, Apple could potentially increase sales by 1/3 by making a bigger phone. However, that is missing out the fact that flagship Android devices are cheaper than Apple's whereas Apple's bigger version would cost either the same or more than their current ones and have almost nothing to differentiate it from the other ones.

The fact that Samsung had to bring out a Galaxy S4 Mini shows that people felt the S4 was too large. The guy from the Three network mentioned that some customers had requested a smaller phone. There's not really much difference between them either - no extra screen content etc:



Tim Cook addressed the issue of having a single model at D11 and said their current strategy has worked out well for them. Sometimes I think the reason people want Apple to bring out a larger phone is to turn round and say that Apple was wrong and they are following Samsung after they pioneered larger devices just like they tried to do with the iPad Mini. The reality is that Samsung is following Apple again by bringing out a smaller S4 and a wider 8" Galaxy Note.

I agree....some people wanted a smaller version of the 5 inch S4. Then Samsung gave the consumer what they wanted. Isn't that what smart companies do? Didn't Apple do that with the Mini? Isn't there a lot of people that would want a larger iPhone? I would buy one......I don't think I am the only one. Isn't the larger iPhone 5 the best selling smart phone in the world? It was larger than the one before it...... I would love to have a 4.7 to 5 inch iPhone! :-)

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post #92 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by quest01 View Post

I can understand why other companies want to do this because majority of consumers prefer a screen size of 4 inches, a size they can use with one hand easily. Majority of android phones that are 4.7 inches and bigger don't fit inside pockets and are almost impossible to use with one hand. If you ask consumers which do you prefer more in terms of screen size between the iphone 5 and samsung galaxy s4, the overwhelming majority will choose the iphone 5, 4 inch screen size.

What's your source for this? I would say market data suggests otherwise as the trend is to increase screen size. Since there's no concrete evidence on the preferred size, the trend to larger screens implies that internal research has revealed that bigger is better in the minds of consumers. Keep in mind that the impediment to usability is not screen size but chassis size. The S4 puts a larger screen into a slightly smaller chassis than the S3, improving usability while bumping up screen size.

Also it's laughable to say that a 4.7 inch phone doesn't fit in a pocket, unless you're a girl in which case you probably have a purse. I can put my Nexus 7 in my pants pocket, and I don't wear cargo shorts.
post #93 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCranesNZ View Post

Phones like S3 and S4 never fits in gentleman's pocket. Unwillingly, will never use them. 

Oh come on... the Galaxy S3 is only slightly bigger than the iPhone 5. And the S4 is roughly the same size as the S3.

If you can somehow fit an iPhone 5 in your pocket... but not a Galaxy... something is wrong.

Since Galaxy phones don't have insane bezels on the top and bottom... Samsung is able to put a much larger screen in a body that is only slightly larger.

Apple needs to lose the chin and forehead.

post #94 of 134
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Apple needs to lose the chin and forehead.

 

Nonsense.

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post #95 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

Drop the sales/shipment thing if you want to be taken seriously.

I doubt anyone will take up this helpful suggestion, but in all seriousness I don't recall ever seeing more sound advice given here.

post #96 of 134
Originally Posted by MacRulez
I doubt anyone will take up this helpful suggestion, but in all seriousness I don't recall ever seeing more sound advice given here.

 

Good to see that you people still stick together.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #97 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Oh come on... the Galaxy S3 is only slightly bigger than the iPhone 5. And the S4 is roughly the same size as the S3.

If you can somehow fit an iPhone 5 in your pocket... but not a Galaxy... something is wrong.

Since Galaxy phones don't have insane bezels on the top and bottom... Samsung is able to put a much larger screen in a body that is only slightly larger.

Apple needs to lose the chin and forehead.

Must be they wear tight "skinny jeans" maybe....

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post #98 of 134
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Good to see that you people still stick together.

nice to see you debate the issue instead of attacking the poster......

/s

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post #99 of 134
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post
nice to see you debate the issue instead of attacking the poster......

/s

 

Seal of Quabity!

 

 

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post #100 of 134
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Seal of Quabity!

 

 

so?...what is your point again? The issues? you know what that means? Do you want to get personal? There is a lot of good stuf available.....

How about you just stick to the issue and leave the personal stuff out? break your trend....

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post #101 of 134
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Seal of Quabity!

 

 


Still more ad hominem, without a single shred of evidence of any kind at all to counter KDarling's suggestion.

 

Thanks for proving geekdad's point.


Edited by MacRulez - 5/31/13 at 3:09pm
post #102 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Sales of the Samsung Galaxy S4 well over 10 million 

 

SHIPMENTS!!!

 

Samsung does not report sales.

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post #103 of 134
the Samsung Galaxy Mega with a 6 inch display is also on the way to AT&T. If DED had mentioned that in the article he wouldn't have had an article. Samsung's just covering every niche apparently.
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post #104 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

SHIPMENTS!!!

Samsung does not report sales.

Unless they were free they were almost certaimly a sale
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post #105 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Also it's laughable to say that a 4.7 inch phone doesn't fit in a pocket, unless you're a girl in which case you probably have a purse. I can put my Nexus 7 in my pants pocket, and I don't wear cargo shorts.

 

Try doing $300 damage by putting one of these things in the back pocket of a tight pair of jeans and sitting down.

 

At least HTC has a warning about cracking the screen, maybe Samsung should too.


Edited by hill60 - 5/31/13 at 2:47pm
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post #106 of 134
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Unless they were free they were almost certaimly a sale

 

So the fifty or so S4's in a cupboard at work are sold or shipped?

 

The recalls of unsold stock when handsets go end of life?

 

Such as the S3's that no-one wants now?

 

Are they sold or shipped?

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post #107 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

SHIPMENTS!!!

 

Samsung does not report sales.

not going to argue with you...KDarling put it to rest quite nicely.....

But here on AppleInsider they list SALES in their articles...

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/27/samsung-breaks-smartphone-sales-record-in-china-for-q1-doubles-apples-iphone

 

They mix sales and shipments into the same bucket on AI meaning....they are the same....

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/14/apple-fell-to-18-share-of-smartphone-sales-in-q1-gartner-says

 

If their shipped or sales were not the same then this would not happen

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/08/samsungs-cash-pile-triples-in-one-year-now-worth-285b-minus-debt

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post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Try doing $300 damage by putting one of these things in the back pocket of a tight pair of jeans and sitting down.

 

At least HTC has a warning about cracking the screen, maybe Samsung should too.

But why would you do that? If you put your IP5 in your back pocket of tight skinny jeans and sat on cement bench or similar....do you not think the glass would break?

Great point...i think they all should come with that warning....but isn't that just common sense?

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post #109 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

So the fifty or so S4's in a cupboard at work are sold or shipped?

 

The recalls of unsold stock when handsets go end of life?

 

Such as the S3's that no-one wants now?

 

Are they sold or shipped?

No....they end up being free with a 2 year contract....kind of like you can get the IP5 in some places or the 4S.....

Like BestBuy does here: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/31/best-buy-launches-limited-time-trade-in-program-150-credit-for-iphone-4-or-4s-free-iphone-5

So does Apple count that free IP5 as a sale? Or asume it was a sale because they shipped it to a retailer?

Do those traded in IP4 or IP4s get removed from the sales figures for Apple?

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post #110 of 134

The Galaxy S4 Active, with 5" screen, was announced today.  Samsung flip flops on their smaller screen strategy and reverts to large screens!

post #111 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

No....they end up being free with a 2 year contract....kind of like you can get the IP5 in some places or the 4S.....

Like BestBuy does here: http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/31/best-buy-launches-limited-time-trade-in-program-150-credit-for-iphone-4-or-4s-free-iphone-5

So does Apple count that free IP5 as a sale? Or asume it was a sale because they shipped it to a retailer?

Do those traded in IP4 or IP4s get removed from the sales figures for Apple?

 

Want a Galaxy S2 for $299?

 

An iPhone activates in iTunes, Apple has a record of that sale, hence there is no requirement for a receipt when taking an iPhone back to an Apple store under warranty.

 

Second hand goods are second hand goods, why would anyone count them as new sales?

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post #112 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So the fifty or so S4's in a cupboard at work are sold or shipped?

The recalls of unsold stock when handsets go end of life?

Such as the S3's that no-one wants now?

Are they sold or shipped?

Did a reseller, carrier or anyone else pay for them? Then they were sold. It's really simple.
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post #113 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Want a Galaxy S2 for $299?

 

An iPhone activates in iTunes, Apple has a record of that sale, hence there is no requirement for a receipt when taking an iPhone back to an Apple store under warranty.

 

Second hand goods are second hand goods, why would anyone count them as new sales?

no...not new...they were just traded in.....so do they count as a minus in reporting IP4s sales?

I don't think anyone mentioned the S2...but $299 with a 2 year contract? What a ripoff.....

So if I do a factory reset on my IP5...then activate it in iTunes....does that count as a sale?

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post #114 of 134
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Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

The Galaxy S4 Active, with 5" screen, was announced today.  Samsung flip flops on their smaller screen strategy and reverts to large screens!

 

How does that fit in with phones like these?

 

573 models larger than 4.2"

 

3638 models smaller than 4.2"


Edited by hill60 - 5/31/13 at 3:24pm
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post #115 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

How does that fit in with phones like these...

 

...ooh, gingerbread!

you just proved our sales versus shipped point......these phone were sold to a retailer....then ened up on the link you posted.....

http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5279&idPhone2=4883

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post #116 of 134
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Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

you just proved our sales versus shipped point......these phone were sold to a retailer....then ened up on the link you posted.....

http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5279&idPhone2=4883

 

That site reviews phones it has nothing to do with sales or shipments.

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post #117 of 134
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Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

That site reviews phones it has nothing to do with sales or shipments.

yes...you are right I mis understood! 1embarassed.gif Sorry....

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post #118 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Try doing $300 damage by putting one of these things in the back pocket of a tight pair of jeans and sitting down.

At least HTC has a warning about cracking the screen, maybe Samsung should too.

I was talking about my front (side) pockets, but you could put the 7 in your back pocket too. I wouldn't advise sitting on any electronic devices.
post #119 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

 

If I understand your post correctly, you are saying that a wider battery can more than compensate for the increased power consumption of a correspondingly larger display. But if that's the case, how does one explain Tim Cook's remark (quoted from the original article) that "Customers are clearly looking at the size," he said, "but they also look at things like...battery life...."? 

 

I don't think there's anything to explain there. His statement speaks for itself, but it doesn't contradict anything I said.

post #120 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

Do you have sources for that? Or is that just your opinion? 

 

 

Spending too much time on Wikipedia? 

 

Quote:

Sales of the Samsung Galaxy S4 well over 10 million now is not because people WANT a larger screen on their phones but because.....they had no other choice? What consumes the most power on a smartphone? The display does....... But by your statement. Android phone makers could not produce enough power for the small screen phones. So to make up for this they made the biggest power drain on the battery bigger? They made bigger screens to hide the bigger battery? But then wouldn't the problem then scale up as well?

Edit: BTW.....i had the HTC EVO 4G on Sprint when it came out in 2010. It had terrible battery life and only last about 4 hours of normal use for me. My Galaxy S4 with a 5 inch screen last a little over 24 hours of normal use for me.....

 

Your "Edit" is entirely irrelevant, but as for the rest of your comments, you might consider that as a battery increases in size it increases in volume but as screens get larger they effectively increase only in surface area: one increases in 3 dimensions, the other only in 2.

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