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Dutch Supreme Court rules Samsung's Galaxy Tab doesn't infringe on iPad

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
The highest court in the Netherlands handed down a disappointing verdict for Apple on Friday, finding its claims that Samsung had infringed on the design of its iPad to be invalid.

Dutch


The court's ruling will likely put an end to Apple's efforts to get Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1 banned from import into the Netherlands, according to Nu.nl (via SamMobile). Apple holds a design patent in Europe on the iPad, but the Supreme Court limited the applicability of that design patent, claiming prior art.

With a few exceptions here and there, Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1 reproduces much of the look and feel of Apple's original iPad, which featured similar materials. One of the larger issues in the case was the "rounded-rectangle" aspect of the iPad, a feature for which Apple has secured design patents wherever possible around the world.

The Court allowed that the iPad had a "unique character," but that alone was not enough to secure a victory for Apple. The Court pointed to concepts such as the Knight Ridder tablet -- the design of which predates the iPad by some 15 years -- and said that the design of Samsung's tablets differs enough from the iPad that an informed user could easily tell the difference.

The ruling comes as final confirmation of a ruling from last year, in which a Dutch appeals court also rejected Apple's claim of infringement.

Apple has had mixed luck in the Netherlands in its years-long patent struggle against Samsung. In October of last year, a Dutch court found that had not infringed on Apple's pinch-to-zoom patent. Samsung representatives were pleased with Friday's verdict.

"Apple was not the first tablet designed with a rectangular shape and rounded corners," Samsung Netherlands reps said. "No company should have a monopoly on general design."

Apple has not issued a response to the ruling.
post #2 of 64

"There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch"

 

Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

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Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

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post #3 of 64
"the design of Samsung's tablets differs enough from the iPad that an informed user could easily tell the difference."

So Sam's lawyers in that United States case who couldn't tell them apart: uninformed?
post #4 of 64
This is the basis of the expression "Going Dutch" in which you split everything. Including design patents, IP, etc.
post #5 of 64

If the photo had black iPad then at least readers would feel the judge is an moronic hole.

post #6 of 64
I'd agree with at least one part of the verdict - How anybody could confuse a piece of sh*t Android tablet to an iPad is beyond me. Apple builds quality products whereas Android is slapped on any piece of garbage.
post #7 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post

I'd agree with at least one part of the verdict - How anybody could confuse a piece of sh*t Android tablet to an iPad is beyond me. Apple builds quality products whereas Android is slapped on any piece of garbage.

Isn't that what the UK judge said? And then made Apple apologize?

 

The US justice system and its judges are starting to look good, by comparison....

post #8 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

and said that the design of Samsung's tablets differs enough from the iPad that an informed user could easily tell the difference.

 

This is a bad judgement from the court and their argument is weak.

 

How can they claim that an "informed user" can easily tell the difference, when Samsung's own lawyers could not tell the difference? The average person probably thinks that all tablets are iPads.

 

Anyway, this is not really that big of a deal. Anybody who buys a Samsung tablet, either informed or not informed, gets what they deserve, and they will receive no pity or sympathy from me.

 

Anybody who ends up with an Android tablet is doomed to a tablet life of misery, frustration and despair, leading Fandroid morons to endlessly post stupid things on the web, like "When is this game coming out for Android?". Go check out the comments on various places for the huge Star Wars RPG (one of the best RPG's of all time) that just got released for the iPad, and check out how many moronic Fandroids ask when it's coming out for Android? lol.gif

post #9 of 64

Samsung's bribe trail expands yet again.

post #10 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

 

The US justice system and its judges are starting to look good, by comparison....

 

US justice system said that Samsung doesn't infringe iPad design

post #11 of 64

"the design of Samsung's tablets differs enough from the iPad that an informed user could easily tell the difference."

 

That leaves too wide a gap for too many users to buy Samsung Tablet, thinking that it's either The Same Thing as iPad, or Almost The Same Thing, but for less money!!! 

 

It'd be great if Apple had Infomercials Videos on its site that would help people make a More Informed Choice!  

 

  • Let those Videos go through the Differences between iPad and Android Tablets, or even between iPhones and Android Phones!  
  • The could Blur the Names of the Competing Devices, if need be for Legal Reasons!  
  • The Videos would show what Apple Products do, and its advantages! 

 

But the flip side is that it would invite Tit for Tat War of Ads?! 

 

So maybe the best thing would be to have more Show And Tell Videos on Apple Site, and demonstrate the Main Features Usage in Daily Lives?

 

The Heading could be be:

 

Watch This Before You Buy!!!!

 

Just my 2c…  

 

Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

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Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

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post #12 of 64
What horse-shit. This whole saga with Apple and Samsung has shown that it definitely pays to shamelessly duplicate the shit out of your competitors to gain mindshare and marketshare, as the upsides are infinite and the downsides are almost negligible. You will get away with it each and every time. The judgement that Apple win in the US will be appealed for years, and the financial punishment on Samsung (if there ever is one) will not even be a blip on their financials. Has any other company in history been so shamelessly copied by everyone? Absolutely despicable.
post #13 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post


What horse-shit. This whole saga with Apple and Samsung has shown that it definitely pays to shamelessly duplicate the shit out of your competitors to gain mindshare and marketshare, as the upsides are infinite and the downsides are almost negligible. You will get away with it each and every time. The judgement that Apple win in the US will be appealed for years, and the financial punishment on Samsung (if there ever is one) will not even be a blip on their financials. Has any other company in history been so shamelessly copied by everyone? Absolutely despicable.

 

Unfortunately, Samsung has nothing worth copying by Apple so the barn door doesn't swing both ways. :D

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #14 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Anybody who ends up with an Android tablet is doomed to a tablet life of misery, frustration and despair......
Actually I own a 1st Gen Kindle Fire and I enjoy it quite a bit and have had little problems with it. Then again I use it primarily as an e-reader and do little else with it outside of light web surfing & email so I may not be the best judge of what a full fledged Android tablet can do.
post #15 of 64

I just have to ask, why does Apple even care about the Dutch market? That cant be a financially large enough market to even bother with having to pay lawyers the extreme amount they are.

post #16 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuarayer View Post

I just have to ask, why does Apple even care about the Dutch market? That cant be a financially large enough market to even bother with having to pay lawyers the extreme amount they are.

It's a major import hub for the rest of Europe.
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


It's a major import hub for the rest of Europe.

 

Did not know that. Learn something new every day.

post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

 

This is a bad judgement from the court and their argument is weak.

 

How can they claim that an "informed user" can easily tell the difference, when Samsung's own lawyers could not tell the difference? The average person probably thinks that all tablets are iPads.

 

Anyway, this is not really that big of a deal. Anybody who buys a Samsung tablet, either informed or not informed, gets what they deserve, and they will receive no pity or sympathy from me.

 

Anybody who ends up with an Android tablet is doomed to a tablet life of misery, frustration and despair, leading Fandroid morons to endlessly post stupid things on the web, like "When is this game coming out for Android?". Go check out the comments on various places for the huge Star Wars RPG (one of the best RPG's of all time) that just got released for the iPad, and check out how many moronic Fandroids ask when it's coming out for Android? lol.gif

 

 

They all look the same from 30 feet .

post #19 of 64

So I guess the old adage of "Don't take any wooden nickels" now has to be modified to "Don't take any wooden shoes"!  

 

Nice going judge... 1oyvey.gif

/

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/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #20 of 64
Originally Posted by majjo
Perfectly OK to call Fandroids morons, but don't you care mention that Apple fanbois are butthurt...

 

What's so difficult for you to understand about not posting something when it has been deleted twice already? 

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple holds a design patent in Europe on the iPad, but the Supreme Court limited the applicability of that design patent, claiming prior art.

 

It's not a patent.  It's an EU registered Community Design.  Unlike a patent, you just have to file -- no examination is done unless it's challenged.

 

Quote:
One of the larger issues in the case was the "rounded-rectangle" aspect of the iPad, a feature for which Apple has secured design patents wherever possible around the world.

 

There's the rub.  Apple never used their actual iPad design in court.

 

Instead, Apple kept trying to use that 2004 Community Design, which was not the registered design of any actual product.  Instead, it was a picture of a rather plain rounded rectangular slab, making it nearly impossible for a jury or court to convict on something so generic:

 

 

Apple's problem was that they couldn't use an actual iPad design patent, because it would include features such as the Home button, which immediately differentiates it from other tablet designs.  Actual US iPad design patent below:

 

post #22 of 64
Originally Posted by majjo
Do the mods believe that it is perfectly ok to call fandroids morons, but not ok to point out that apple fanbois are butthurt?

We're. On. An. Apple. Website. 1confused.gif1oyvey.gif1rolleyes.gif

Originally Posted by asdasd

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post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


What's difficult for me to understand is why inflammatory comments such as Apple II's are allowed to stand.


This is an Apple-centric site. Do you think it's escaped anyone's attention that similar is allowed against Apple users on Android-centric sites? Why are we supposed to play nice against Android fans that troll this forum?

Rule zero violation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule zero View Post

0. If you're here to crap on Apple, its fans or its customers, you're not long for this forum.

Edited by JeffDM - 5/31/13 at 3:22pm
post #24 of 64

Many of you argue that even informed People cannot distinguish between the design of the two devices. Maybe, but what does this mean? 
 
How many of you experts can say the Name of the brand by just looking at  
 
- a TV 
- a Refrigerator 
- a washing machine 
- a notebook 
- a PC monitor 
- a .... 
Why do you think that this should be different for tablets? 
 
Please start thinking about that instead of repeating ridiculous patent claims from Apple.

post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanadaV2 View Post

"There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch"

 

 

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post #26 of 64

This thread went pretty much as I expected. Everyone is just commenting on the headline.

post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


It's a major import hub for the rest of Europe.

 

It's also part of the "tax avoidance" trail that American companies sometimes use.

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post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by peschiera View Post

Many of you argue that even informed People cannot distinguish between the design of the two devices. Maybe, but what does this mean? 

Simple.

Judge holds up a Tab and iPad. Asks Samsung's attorneys which one is which. They are unable to tell the difference.

What part don't you understand?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by macologist View Post

"the design of Samsung's tablets differs enough from the iPad that an informed user could easily tell the difference."

 

That leaves too wide a gap for too many users to buy Samsung Tablet, thinking that it's either The Same Thing as iPad, or Almost The Same Thing, but for less money!!! 

 

It'd be great if Apple had Infomercials Videos on its site that would help people make a More Informed Choice!  

 

  • Let those Videos go through the Differences between iPad and Android Tablets, or even between iPhones and Android Phones!  
  • The could Blur the Names of the Competing Devices, if need be for Legal Reasons!  
  • The Videos would show what Apple Products do, and its advantages! 

 

But the flip side is that it would invite Tit for Tat War of Ads?! 

 

So maybe the best thing would be to have more Show And Tell Videos on Apple Site, and demonstrate the Main Features Usage in Daily Lives?

 

The Heading could be be:

 

Watch This Before You Buy!!!!

 

Just my 2c…  

 

Unless the rules have changed in recent years, many European countries prohibit comparative advertising.     Did the Mac vs. PC ads play in Europe?  (I'm asking).  

post #30 of 64

For anyone interested, here's the Dutch court ruling:

 

http://zoeken.rechtspraak.nl/detailpage.aspx?ljn=BZ1983&u_ljn=BZ1983

 

The primary finding was that only the front of the Samsung tablet looked similar.  The sides and back did not.

 

The front alone was not enough, since there was prior art for such a frontal look.  Most reporters repeat the Court's reference to the 1994 Knight-Ridder tablet newspaper concept...

 

 

...but the court also cited the 2004 Ozolins flat front display design (an earlier version of which dates back to 2000)...

 

 

(Ozolins' design has been cited by many courts that have found against Apple.  That's why Apple wanted it, the K-R design, and others, kept out of the California trial.  As it turned out, the California jury found in favor of Samsung's tablet anyway.)

post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post

I'd agree with at least one part of the verdict - How anybody could confuse a piece of sh*t Android tablet to an iPad is beyond me. Apple builds quality products whereas Android is slapped on any piece of garbage.


Good  point, that Judge must have tried them both enough to see the huge difference.

Then Judge bought an iPad, so Apple won again!

post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

 

Unless the rules have changed in recent years, many European countries prohibit comparative advertising.     Did the Mac vs. PC ads play in Europe?  (I'm asking).  

Thanks to your Comment, I learnt that it a complicated legal issue:

 

European countries prohibit Comparative Advertising - Google Search http://j.mp/12mJe2w

 

Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

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Go  Apple, AAPL!!!

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post #33 of 64

To expand (infringe?) upon someone else's observation, maybe if the photo had a black iPad, the same orientation & hadn't shrunk the 10.1" Galaxy Tab the comparison would have been clearer.

 

I seriously don't get where Apple are coming from with their legal strategy, never has the term 'divide & conquer' been more apt.  Apple are an integrator, they take standard or custom components (hardware or software) and integrate them via unique designs to produce products which never worked before.  It's the combination not the design components which are unique.  It's like saying Apple never came up with a unique expression or saying because they used the same alphabet as everyone else and one of the, inevitable, vowels was drawn in a similar way to someone else's back in 1994.

 

The tragic irony of this video being used against Apple is that the product never existed, it was a mock-up, notice the prevalence of the Chicago font?  It was created with Macs!  Hoisted!

 

On the Dutch - I guess this means they're not prepared to uphold protection of anyone else's IP so forfeit their own.  That's a lot of licenses Heineken (which owns Guinness) Royal Dutch Shell & Phillips can no longer collect on.  The economic effect would render the Netherlands another European Economic basket-case but would serve to warn the rest of us what slack protection of IP means.  As we no longer engineer or manufacture anything, design is all we have and we'd do well to protect it, besides it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch!

 

McD

Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
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post #34 of 64

The only better outcomes would have been if the obstructionist 'rounded corners' patent had been invalidated- or if Apple won, but then both tablets were banned for infringing on the etch-a-sketch.

post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave View Post

On the Dutch - I guess this means they're not prepared to uphold protection of anyone else's IP so forfeit their own. 

 

 

The UK, USA or Germany are not prepared to uphold protection of anyone else's IP because in all the places where Apple has sued Samsung for the iPad design, they have lost.

post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Unless the rules have changed in recent years, many European countries prohibit comparative advertising.     Did the Mac vs. PC ads play in Europe?  (I'm asking).  

Yes, they played Uk versions of the ads in the UK
post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Simple.

Judge holds up a Tab and iPad. Asks Samsung's attorneys which one is which. They are unable to tell the difference.

What part don't you understand?

His point was that any number of devices can't be told apart from a distance. While it was funny it's not the home run many here think it was.
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
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post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

It's also part of the "tax avoidance" trail that American companies sometimes use.

 

 

Rotterdam harbor is indeed an entry point to Europe (but ot the only one, of course).

 

I also think Apple choice has something to do with the "Dutch Sandwich" tax avoidance scheme ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich )

post #39 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by peschiera View Post

Many of you argue that even informed People cannot distinguish between the design of the two devices. Maybe, but what does this mean? 
 
How many of you experts can say the Name of the brand by just looking at  
 
- a TV 
- a Refrigerator 
- a washing machine 
- a notebook 
- a PC monitor 
- a .... 
Why do you think that this should be different for tablets? 
 
Please start thinking about that instead of repeating ridiculous patent claims from Apple.

 

Your analogy is what's absolutely ridiculous, as your attempt to twist reality to adhere to your perception based on Apple hatred. Trust me, if a company who produced any of those categories of products you just listed consistently and methodically ripped off every single aspect of a single competitor, including the design, software, packaging, accessories, etc, that would be an issue. Every company gets inspired by different products and companies in their fields. I'm sure Apple's products are also based on inspiration from hundreds of things. What Samsung has done is get ALL their inspiration from a single company, Apple, shamelessly duplicating whatever turns out to be successful, and that's not ok. 

post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Simple.

Judge holds up a Tab and iPad. Asks Samsung's attorneys which one is which. They are unable to tell the difference.

What part don't you understand?

Is it really that complicated to understand?

Do you think a Sony attorney would be able to tell you whether a TV is from Sony or Panasonic or Samsung by just looking at it? The same is valid for Refrigerators etc.

Again: the patent is about the form. And no serious company would even think of trying to patent a rectangular with round Corners.

That was the reason why the Knight Ridder creater did not patent the form. The strange thing is that Apple tries to patent something that was created by someone else before. This is not only ridiculous but also shameless.

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