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Apple to release slimmer Retina MacBook Pro with upgraded camera, insider reveals - Page 3

post #81 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I use Ethernet [at home on my network] and at every consulting job I've ever worked for within the Fortune 1000.

Are you sticking with an older MBP or gong with the USB or TB-to-Ethernet dongle?

If WiFi isn't completely out of the question and the Ethernet you're plugging is designed to also with a IP phone then plugging in a small PoE wireless router could be a solution.

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post #82 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

Because Mountain Lion likes to slow down after a while. (Eg boot times randomly going to 1:30 minutes  from the usual 30 seconds. There are a lot of Mac people who do regular clean installs 1smile.gif

I can't say I've experience this with Mac OS, Windows 7 or Windows 8. Certainly not with Mountain Lion.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #83 of 239

I've been saying this for years now, but it's time for Apple to completely abandon the ODD from all of it's products. It is useless, it is offensive, it is noisy, it is power hungry, it's not 100% reliable and it takes up valuable space. A forward thinking company like Apple can not continue to include such an obsolete atrocity in it's products.

 

I feel sorry for anybody who lives in the middle of nowhere without a decent internet connection and people who still travel to work using a horse and buggy, but human civilization must continue on, and technological progress can not be hindered just because of a few dinosaurs that still remain. High speed internet is simply a requirement for all modern computing needs. The majority should not be inconvenienced by an insignificant minority. You still use actual audio CD's and you still watch horrible quality DVD movies and you still back up to Disk like it's 1999? Well, just go out and buy an external drive. It is you that should be inconvenienced, because you have special needs.

post #84 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

Again I'm not asking for progress to stop, and its not just the minority.

Actually, you are in the minority.

The MBA sold well without an optical drive. The rMBP is selling like crazy - without an optical drive. One of the few highlights of the Windows PC market is Ultrabooks - you guessed it, without an optical drive.

If you hare having to reinstall ML regularly, you have a problem that you should fix. It could be that you've mucked it up with trojans or you're installing iffy software or perhaps it's a hardware problem, but there's no reason why ML should have to be reinstalled - ever.
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post #85 of 239
On the reasons why older mac book pros have to stay around:
- I am very passionate about photography, and have a very large collection of pictures shot in RAW with a DSLR.

Now. Of course I would die to have a retina mac. But I currently use the 17" mbp which has a huge difference in real estate to the 15".

Moreover I have a 750 GB HDD. Picture the price tag of that size on a SSD on a retina...

I could give up the real estate for a retina display. But I don't want a portable computer with an external drive constantly connected to it. It defies the purpose!

I think apple went all SSD too soon on the MacBook. Why not fusion drive? With the spare space from the ODD? The prices of SSD are still too high (if we talk above 500 gb). I am all for the cloud, but having to be constantly connected to work on my pictures is a pain. Let me store them on my mac! (For a decent price).

If anything apple has to increase storage on the mbp. Cloud is, at the moment, for more portable devices (iPad, iPhone and MBAir). The pro is a different league. Storage and performance are paramount not optionals or gimmicks...
post #86 of 239
The more I think about it, the more I wonder if the analyst didn't get confused and it is the MBA that gets slimmed down (not the MBP).
post #87 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

On the reasons why older mac book pros have to stay around:
- I am very passionate about photography, and have a very large collection of pictures shot in RAW with a DSLR.

Now. Of course I would die to have a retina mac. But I currently use the 17" mbp which has a huge difference in real estate to the 15".

Moreover I have a 750 GB HDD. Picture the price tag of that size on a SSD on a retina...

I could give up the real estate for a retina display. But I don't want a portable computer with an external drive constantly connected to it. It defies the purpose!

I think apple went all SSD too soon on the MacBook. Why not fusion drive? With the spare space from the ODD? The prices of SSD are still too high (if we talk above 500 gb). I am all for the cloud, but having to be constantly connected to work on my pictures is a pain. Let me store them on my mac! (For a decent price).

If anything apple has to increase storage on the mbp. Cloud is, at the moment, for more portable devices (iPad, iPhone and MBAir). The pro is a different league. Storage and performance are paramount not optionals or gimmicks...

 

I would think the real question is why you want to store all those photos on your laptop.  If you are shooting so much at such a high res that storage is a problem then you should really be using a desktop class machine.  That was the case before Retina and before SSDs also.  A laptop is a horrible choice for keeping all your photos safe.  At the very least you want a backup which means you have to regularly connect your laptop to something else like another computer or a giant hard drive to back it up.  And all the time your laptop is away from this thing, you aren't backed up at all.  

 

It would make more sense to me to dump the laptop and switch to an iPad that's connected and backed up to the cloud on a minute by minute basis.  Then you won't have any storage or backup problems, your mobile gear will be much lighter and cheaper, and you can concentrate on just taking the pictures.  

 

All a good photographer in the field needs is a device for taking the shots (camera), a review device (iPad), and the ability to send some of the pics off or make some colour corrections before doing so (again, the iPad is excellent for this).  Alternatively, an iMac for your home, and a EyeFi card for the camera would be a better combination than your current setup also.  If you have any "computing" needs in the field, an iPhone or again a cheap iPad would serve you better. 

post #88 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

On the reasons why older mac book pros have to stay around:
- I am very passionate about photography, and have a very large collection of pictures shot in RAW with a DSLR.

Now. Of course I would die to have a retina mac. But I currently use the 17" mbp which has a huge difference in real estate to the 15".

Moreover I have a 750 GB HDD. Picture the price tag of that size on a SSD on a retina...

I could give up the real estate for a retina display. But I don't want a portable computer with an external drive constantly connected to it. It defies the purpose!

I think apple went all SSD too soon on the MacBook. Why not fusion drive? With the spare space from the ODD? The prices of SSD are still too high (if we talk above 500 gb). I am all for the cloud, but having to be constantly connected to work on my pictures is a pain. Let me store them on my mac! (For a decent price).

If anything apple has to increase storage on the mbp. Cloud is, at the moment, for more portable devices (iPad, iPhone and MBAir). The pro is a different league. Storage and performance are paramount not optionals or gimmicks...

1) I think Fusion Drive would have been more ideal and hope that Haswell allows them to adjust some things so they can add at least a single platter HDD to the MBPs. Those are only 5mm if I remember correctly.

2) You shoot in RAW but how many pictures are you loading on your machine at one time to edit? It sounds like you are saying you have a full 750GB HDD and you need to edit that much data worth of pics at a time. That seems quite excessive to me considering the capacities of a cards for DLSRs.

3) Doesn't that slow you down when having to read and write from an HDD as oppose to an SSD? I'd think a faster system all around to do work in would make you more productive. Of course, I'm saying this without being a photographer so perhaps RAW doesn't get any speed boost from an SSD over an HDD.

4) Is a 17" non-Retna MBP with a TN panel better for images than a 15" Retina MBP with an IPS panel? I'd think the latter is better overall. Why not use a large external display for edited images?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #89 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

Because Mountain Lion likes to slow down after a while. (Eg boot times randomly going to 1:30 minutes  from the usual 30 seconds. There are a lot of Mac people who do regular clean installs :)

 

I don't think this is true at all.  It sounds like you need an SMC reset perhaps, or maybe your Spotlight index is corrupt, but you shouldn't have to re-install the OS.  

post #90 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Are you sticking with an older MBP or gong with the USB or TB-to-Ethernet dongle?

If WiFi isn't completely out of the question and the Ethernet you're plugging is designed to also with a IP phone then plugging in a small PoE wireless router could be a solution.

Because plugging a small PoE wireless router into a Future 1000 company's wired network will get a consultant escorted out the door.

post #91 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

Its not just Audio cds, Its watching DVDs, playing games, easily archiving stuff as a backup away from home (I don't want to waste money on a harddrive for it to sit at a relatives place) and because I have a laptop I don't want an external CD drive. As I said when I have money and upgrade in 4 years or so I probably won't even need an optical disk drive.

You're being ridiculous.

1) Watching DVDs? Just rip them! It's not illegal to rip a DVD in Australia for backup purposes, despite what you say.

2) Playing games? Why aren't you downloading games? Even if you're not, what game still requires the disc? Just use a NOCD patch if its that old

3) And, sorry to say, but if you're backing stuff up on discs, you might as well not back up at all. Go and get a 4TB HDD for $99 and use that. It'll last longer, it's cheaper, the data is safer, and it's quicker to backup. For someone who 'manages' PCs for a living, you seem to be stuck in 2003. How anyone is paying you for having such old-fashioned and inefficient processes is beyond me. Get with the times! Throw your discs out! They're a waste of time and money!
post #92 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

Why is everyone so Anti the old Macbook Pro? 

 

I bought last years model and I love mine. Some people need ethernet and an Optical drive. Apple would be  alienating a lot of people if they got rid of the 13 inch classic pro, because believe it or not a lot of people like having ports and an Optical drive. Schools especially need the 13 Inch Macbook pro, or Apple needs to upgrade it and rename it the Macbook again. 

 

Seeing as I was upgrading from a 2008 Plastic Macbook, the classic MB 13 inch was perfect. Optical drive, Upgradable RAM, Upgradable Harddrive and affordable. Both the air and the Pro retina are far too expesnive. There is no way that I could afford 8 GB of ram and a 750 GB Harddrive on either (I don't even think the SDD on the air goes up to 750 GB)

 

Apple is better than most companies at spotting trends from many years out, and it is in the business of moving in that direction, before the rest of the industry. In other words, they lead. For example, one trend is the move away from optical media--not just in computing, but for media distribution in general. It's not going to happen all at once, and not in every nation on Earth. There are countries with fantastic broadband adoption, and countries that are lagging, but the worldwide destination is clear. This is where the world is headed for mainstream digital content distribution. Optical media might be dead by the time the Xbox One and PS4 reach the end of their lifecycle (presumably by 2020).

 

From your other posts, you've been around long enough to experience this. Don't tell me you don't remember the floppy disk, or the double-speed CD-ROM drive. Or Firewire 400.

 

With all technology, there is an adoption curve, which is shaped like a bell curve. This is why when they launched the MBP Retina in 2012, it didn't immediately replace the classic MBP design. The 2012-2013 rMBP is for early adopters--people on the leading edge of the curve. It's not mainstream...yet (the tall hump in the curve). But give it time, and inevitable reduction in the cost of components (such as SSD and Retina LCDs), and customers will come around. We are in a transition period, which is why classic MBP is still on sale, and still getting upgrades. But the future direction is pretty clear.

 

So, be happy with your choice of the 13" MBP (classic). There's nothing wrong with it. You aren't an early adopter--and by strict definition--neither are most people. And there's nothing wrong with that. That isn't a pejorative description. It is your location on the adoption curve.

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post #93 of 239
Anyone know what the heat dissipation is on the new Razer laptop? That's one slick looking machine and is slightly thinner than the rMPB.
post #94 of 239
I don't think Apple will phase out the non-retina MBP without a replacement model in the same price range and no, the MBA is not it. The MBA was designed for a different use profile and th rMBP is just too expensive for school kids. The nrMBP is Apple's gateway machine, it would be utter foolishness for them to tun their back on a significant chunk of their market.
post #95 of 239

Yes, they will get right on that per your last minute request. Even though WWDC is a little over one week away, Apple with drop everything to make sure your request will be presented at the last second.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

Please announce a new 15-inch too, Apple.

post #96 of 239
One could see the classic MBP become simply a MB and retained only as a 13 inch model whose primary audience is schools. We may have an indication of that with the recently reduced school pricing.
post #97 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

I don't think Apple will phase out the non-retina MBP without a replacement model in the same price range and no, the MBA is not it. The MBA was designed for a different use profile and th rMBP is just too expensive for school kids. The nrMBP is Apple's gateway machine, it would be utter foolishness for them to tun their back on a significant chunk of their market.

I think Apple is working to make everything Retinafied as soon as possible. I'd even say that in 3 years Mac OS X will only support Retina Macs.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #98 of 239
Fusion Drive on a 15" MBP, please. I want the benefits of newer technology, but a terabyte flash drive costs way, way too much.
post #99 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

We'll see if he's full of shit in one week.

It's already pretty obvious actually. Start with this:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/23/half-of-apples-macbook-air-lineup-now-sold-out-at-amazon-ahead-of-wwdc

The MBA is the product going into constraint which is SOP for Apple ahead of a major refresh. MBP's still have plenty of availability which is again SOP ahead of minor spec updates. Further, WWDC is typically more focused on iOS so Apple isn't going to announce anything to take the spotlight away from what will likely be a major overhaul of iOS for version 7. Lastly, time on sale and Apple's product refresh schedule for laptops put the MBA as due for an overhaul and the MBP due for a spec bump. It's been this way and totally predictable for YEARS.

What is most likely is that the rMBP's get spec bumps, the MBA's get overhauled and the non retina MBPs get dropped with a single non retina MBA as the new low end entry model.
post #100 of 239
Kuo, Kuo, Kuo... how different our tastes are. You like investment, money, and popular markets. I like the Mac, and computers in general. If the world was just two islands, I'm sure we'd choose a different one. Oh Kuo...
post #101 of 239

What we are really hungry for is a MBA with a retina display. That would be the ultimate notebook of all time!!!!!

You know this and I know this. Hell, I think if such a machine dropped it would kill the pro line. Apple ain't stupid. But what I do know is that when the iPad mini gets its retina display all hell is gong to break loose up in this bi***.

post #102 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiman View Post

 

 

Our personal average is 3-4 battery replacements before we typically move to a new computer (older machines end up sticking around for secondary uses (kids, kitchen/recipes/browsing, etc.). I realize this is a longer lifecycle than for some people, but these are good machines and I hate to throw them out just because their batteries are no longer up to snuff and when they can still be useful.

agreed... I still have a G4 867mhz in service (middle son grad school hold over... he has a full set of equipment in his dept, but he uses this (we married the screen off the even older 800mhz G4 that was pretty much dead) for his email/surfing computer.

 

My 81 yo mother has my G5 iMac, and my mother in law has my 2008 MBP.   I'm up for a new Laptop... and hopefully will have one by end of next week;-)  my wife's 2009 White Macbook is needing both a battery and a shell... I'm hoping they will warranty the latter;-)...

post #103 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

I would think the real question is why you want to store all those photos on your laptop.  If you are shooting so much at such a high res that storage is a problem then you should really be using a desktop class machine.  That was the case before Retina and before SSDs also.  A laptop is a horrible choice for keeping all your photos safe.  At the very least you want a backup which means you have to regularly connect your laptop to something else like another computer or a giant hard drive to back it up.  And all the time your laptop is away from this thing, you aren't backed up at all.  

 

It would make more sense to me to dump the laptop and switch to an iPad that's connected and backed up to the cloud on a minute by minute basis.  Then you won't have any storage or backup problems, your mobile gear will be much lighter and cheaper, and you can concentrate on just taking the pictures.  

 

All a good photographer in the field needs is a device for taking the shots (camera), a review device (iPad), and the ability to send some of the pics off or make some colour corrections before doing so (again, the iPad is excellent for this).  Alternatively, an iMac for your home, and a EyeFi card for the camera would be a better combination than your current setup also.  If you have any "computing" needs in the field, an iPhone or again a cheap iPad would serve you better. 

As much as I would like to agree fully with you I only do so partially. You start by the assumption that my pictures are taken only "locally".

 

 

Following situation:

- I am an architect, and I use one machine (namely MBP 17") for both personal and professional purposes.

- I have a 27" CinemaDisplay at the office for ArchiCAD works

- I use the same machine also personally, privately.

 

I have a Time Machine Backup at the office AND an Aperture Vault at home (1.5 TB). But I don't have to hook neither up to get work done. Of course when in the office, the Time Machine is hooked up constantly. But at home I update my vault only once a week and, if I travel (where I take most of my pictures) only when I come back...

 

Besides the "Aperture Vault", and considering my current library consists of some 56k RAW pictures, I use an external HDD to have referenced copies of the older files (in Aperture). Said drive is cloned (because Aperture doesn't store referenced files in the vault).

 

In order to "free up" space because I own also a farily big amount of music and movies, I "recycled" and old MacMini from the office as iTunes machine at home, with one 1.5 TB and one legacy 750GB HDD (FireWire one, ah, good old days).

 

I have an iPad, but it only serves as "consumption machine" because, as much as I like it, there's no way you can use it for photo retouch on a main library. 

 

Having everything on the internet, for pictures, is not possible, as Photostream is a poor excuse of a service (in this regard at least).

 

All in all, my situation, although "nice" in the specifics, is fairly common amongst "pro" users. And, as far as I am concerned, and that's why I allow myself to critic the choice of SSD only (and also why I bought the highest 17" resolution matte display and waited to see what "antiglare" looks like before becoming convinced it is OK) is in contrast with the "pro" label of said machines.

 

The MacBook Pro, without being nostalgic, has to be a Pro machine. A nice machine by definition. The latest Haswell CPU and GPU coupled with a ultrafast but small SSD ain't gonna cut it. Storage space need is the main driver for this whole Could frenzy, and for 90% of uses it's far more than OK. But "pro" is "pro". It's a nice, by definition.

I belong to that nice, out of a choice and fortunately because I can afford it (photography is a hobby, not my source of income). But many professionals agree with me, storage "on site" is still the way to go for a professional.

 

And I hope Apple releases the MacPro even though we don't need them anymore in architecture after 2004 (iMac Core2Duo with some guts).

 

It's about estabilishing clear boundaries and setting the course.

 

If I want to enjoy the pictures, I have an HDTV with my AppleTV (2nd gen) attached to it. I am talking about editing, manipulating the pictures. As in most cases, mine as well, the enjoyment is not in staring at them but in shooting them, edit them (soft, not "instagram like") and ultimately view them.

BTW, some ArchiCAD projects (with the libraries) tend to be quite resource hungry, and if i travel i cherish a lighter machine such as the 15" RMBP (which we have in the office). 

 

Storage and strategy of SSD only kept prices way too high, kept potential customers away and slowed down the trimming of legacy features. That, in my opinion, was a strategical error on Apple's part. And I say this as a big fan of theirs!!!

post #104 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post


Moreover I have a 750 GB HDD. Picture the price tag of that size on a SSD on a retina...
 

 

I have a rMBP with a 750 GB drive. Sure it was a somewhat hefty credit card bill, but no more than what I paid for a 750 GB (HDD) MacBook 5 years ago.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

I think apple went all SSD too soon on the MacBook. Why not fusion drive? With the spare space from the ODD? The prices of SSD are still too high (if we talk above 500 gb). I am all for the cloud, but having to be constantly connected to work on my pictures is a pain. Let me store them on my mac! (For a decent price).
 

Why not the fusion drive? Space and weight.

 

Too soon? Too soon for some, such as you. But Apple is clear about their mission not being to please everyone. Given that rMBP and MBA are selling very well, they clearly did NOT make their move too soon. They can't please everyone, and are not interested in doing so.

post #105 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

What we are really hungry for is a MBA with a retina display. That would be the ultimate notebook of all time!!!!!

You know this and I know this. Hell, I think if such a machine dropped it would kill the pro line. Apple ain't stupid. But what I do know is that when the iPad mini gets its retina display all hell is gong to break loose up in this bi***.

If they ship rMBA, what would be the distinguishing features of the rMBP? Processor speed? I don't know about that ...

post #106 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinolo View Post

I think apple went all SSD too soon on the MacBook. Why not fusion drive? With the spare space from the ODD? The prices of SSD are still too high (if we talk above 500 gb).

Why not make your own Fusion Drive? I know a great photographer that replaced his ODD with an OptiBay drive. You can have even a cheap SSD for your OS and apps and an HDD for your data all working as one. If you check your OS and your /Application folder you'll probably find that even 80GB would work but I'd go for 128GB just to be safe.

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post #107 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

And how, exactly would a 15" MBA Retina be different from a 15" MBP Retina? (Let me guess: shorter battery life in the Air, because the Pro is obviously weighed down by that gigantic 8-hr battery /s).

 

No discrete GPU.

 

If the 13" MBP had a discrete GPU option I'd be happy.

post #108 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

If they ship rMBA, what would be the distinguishing features of the rMBP? Processor speed? I don't know about that ...

Ports, CPU, GPU, storage capacity, and potentially battery life are all reasons a MBP would be more powerful than a MBA. Don't you remember the MBA becoming very popular before the 15" MBP went Retina a year ago?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #109 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Ports, CPU, GPU, storage capacity, and potentially battery life are all reasons a MBP would be more powerful than a MBA. Don't you remember the MBA becoming very popular before the 15" MBP went Retina a year ago?

Currently, Apple claims 7 hrs of battery life for all MacBooks, Pro and Air alike, with the exception of the 11" MBA. So MBP does not have a battery superiority over MBA, not right now. Furthermore, you can get a 13" MBA with 512 GB SSD, while the ceiling is 768 GB for rMBP. With the hefty price tag for the 768 GB, I am not sure that's a convincing distinguishing feature. In terms of ports, rMBP has one extra Thunderbolt port and also has HDMI - again not compelling. 

 

All to say, I hear what you are saying but I am not convinced.

 

To get 7 hrs of life, rMBP has a battery that is 25% larger than that found in the standard MBP. Unless Apple has substantially improved its battery tech, adding RP to MBA will require a similar jump in battery size. I don't see where they are going to find room for this in the MBA. Moreover, it would mean an increase in weight. The difference between 13" MBA and 13" rMBP is 0.5 lbs. I don't see Apple doing anything to diminish that gap. In fact, I am willing to bet Apple will forever try to keep the weight of MBA below 3 lbs.

 

Nothing is impossible. But RP in MBA will require a tech leap, or a compromise of what Air is about.


Edited by StruckPaper - 6/2/13 at 1:03pm
post #110 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiman View Post


Our personal average is 3-4 battery replacements before we typically move to a new computer (older machines end up sticking around for secondary uses (kids, kitchen/recipes/browsing, etc.). I realize this is a longer lifecycle than for some people, but these are good machines and I hate to throw them out just because their batteries are no longer up to snuff and when they can still be useful.
In each case that I see comments to this effect it ismalways about much older models using entirely different battery technology. It is has been shown with some amount of reliability that they new battery's don't require replacement too that extent. It really isn't a bad trade off to get a more reliable design for a few minutes extra repair work.
post #111 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Currently, Apple claims 7 hrs of battery life for all MacBooks, Pro and Air alike, with the exception of the 11" MBA. So MBP does not have a battery superiority over MBA, not right now. Furthermore, you can get a 13" MBA with 512 GB SSD, while the ceiling is 768 GB for rMBP. With the hefty price tag for the 768 GB, I am not sure that's a convincing distinguishing feature. In terms of ports, rMBP has one extra Thunderbolt port and also has HDMI - again not compelling. 

All to say, I hear what you are saying but I am not convinced.

To get 7 hrs of life, rMBP has a battery that is 25% larger than that found in the standard MBP. Unless Apple has substantially improved its battery tech, adding RP to MBA will require a similar jump in battery size. I don't see where they are going to find room for this in the MBA. Moreover, it would mean an increase in weight. The difference between 13" MBA and 13" rMBP is 0.5 lbs. I don't see Apple doing anything to diminish that gap. In fact, I am willing to bet Apple will forever try to keep the weight of MBA below 3 lbs.

Nothing is impossible. But RP in MBA will require a tech leap, or a compromise of what Air is about.

1) Consider why the battery is larger in the MBP. The MBA isn't going to have the CPU or GPU that the MBP will have. Performance is why the MBP will still be more ideal for many over the MBA.

2) Reports show Haswell dramatically improving battery life. I'm hoping for much longer life but Apple could potentially reduce size and weight whilst keeping the battery life about the same.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #112 of 239

I hear a lot of arguments against them, but like a few others, I do want an optical drive in my next Mac.  I do still use CDs and DVDs.  And that doesn't look like it will be changing any time soon.  Thank you for not hating on me.

post #113 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because it's holding everyone back.
It doesn't hold anybody back but it does keep people from leaving the fold. Sometimes you need to support legacy systems for much longer that the life of a laptop.
Quote:
I think the biggest test of the rMBP is whether Ethernet returns on this second model.
I don't think that tests anything. If the original MBP stays around this yer it will likely be because the retina isn't selling that well. Now if that is true then the question becomes why? Here there are many answers and each of them is valid from the buyers point of view. From Apples standpoint they would need to understand why the retina isn't selling well so they can adjust the design accordingly. That only if the research shows that the design is an issue, the primary factor might be price. If price is the issue offering the current Original MBP at a discounted price might have a positive impact on their ability to sustain strong sakes.
Quote:
Now, granted, they're adding 802.11ac, so they could very probably put off judgement until the third revision, but if it doesn't come back, that will tell us how many people actually need Ethernet, particularly pros.
WiFi being there has nothing to do with the need for an Ethernet jack. You make the mistake of thinking the two technologies are interchangeable but they aren't. Not even close really.
Quote:
The rMBP has ports (1rolleyes.gif ) and "a lot of people" sure don't need an ODD. They're the minority.
The retina machine comes with few ports than the conventional MBP. As for the ODD I really don't buy the idea that ODD users are the minority. The demand isn't as strong as in the past but not having it built into a laptop, for occasional use, can be a buying factor.
Quote:
… Schools can buy the 13" Pro. They can also buy the 13" retina. Why, though do they "need" it? Air.
Why do they need laptops at all? I've always looked at computer use in schools as a mental issue The learning process might be aided by computer technology but right now it is a bit of a joke and distraction.
post #114 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Why do they need laptops at all? I've always looked at computer use in schools as a mental issue The learning process might be aided by computer technology but right now it is a bit of a joke and distraction.
As a professor, I can say the only way to teach with computers is to either teach from the back of the classroom -where you can see all screens- or to disable Internet (the later quite difficult because nobody at our school ever thought the Internet could be an annoyance when teaching)
post #115 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmacs View Post

.…
My point is why people want to kill this Mac? What is it doing- Its not Harming anyone. 3 of my friends bought the same Macbook as me last year (PC converts) as the retina Macbook is way too expensive
 for storage space. 

Because many people have a need to do Apples marketing for them? If you notice there is often no substance to their arguments other than allusions to being behind, not with and etc. My need for an ODD might not be as strong as some but I'm very strongly against not having a real Ethernet connection available. In a nut shell the world just isn't ready.

I'm not overly demanding here either, as I think the current AIRs are a great concept. They have realized in the AIR an almost perfect machine for its target market. However AIRs success does not imply that the same feature set works for buyers of the MBP line. Sometimes it is good to push the market in new directions sometimes not so good.

The problem is a bit of arrogance can lead to product break throughs like the AIR line up. That is a good thing. When that arrogance is applied to the legacy line up is when you start to have problems. Many people simply don't have the option of being bleeding edge even if they wanted to be.

As for Ethernet hardware there are a couple of real issues there that nobody wants to admit to in the no Ethernet port crowd. One issue is that sometimes when traveling your only workable option is a wired Ethernet connection. I can't really count the number of times this has happened to me. Some hotels just have lousy WiFi installations if they have WiFi at all. That of course is an issue for travel, even at work in relatively large installations WiFi can suck badly. Even an iPad with cellular coverage has a better chance of a good connection.

Another issue is the need to hook up to instrumentation with a direct Ethernet connection which people don't grasp. No USB or similar adapters don't cut the mustard here. In any event this is just two issues to contend with. The pro rMBP crowd seems to want to demand that we get with it, but they don't even remotely understand the issues involved.

Frankly these rMBP advocates are like the environmentalist that demand people give up their SUVs, Mini Vans and other large vehicles not even acknowledging why people have the big vehicles in the first place. All they see is bad and refuse to see people doing good with vehicles that don't please them. So we have people seeing bad because you dare use an optical drive still or jack into an Ethernet port from time to time. It isn't rational but obviously if you are part of the adolescent marketing department it is a directive from god.
post #116 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So "not lagging" is reason enough to keep selling something? Do you… know anything about Apple?
Maybe he does maybe he doesn't. Doesn't really matter though, to a certain extent in this business you have to support legacy users. The question then becomes how long is a certain technology viable? For ODD the answer is pretty clear it is still a regularly used feature by many.
Quote:
Different schools of thought about that… Some say the use of said software on owned DVDs is fine, but the creation thereof isn't.
Even if it is legal, which I believe it is by the way, there is the real issue of disk space. It just isn't possible to stuff 2-3 terabytes into a laptop these days. So if you have to carry an external disk drive it is just as easy for some to carry a stack of optical disks.
Quote:
"I refuse to listen to the many valid reasons" ≠ "No one has given me a reason". Come on.

Come on? Are you serious, your arguments here are far thinner and sound more like that of a marketing bozo championing apples design decisions than somebody taking a rational look at the discussion. You have offered no points in fact here.
post #117 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

I hear a lot of arguments against them, but like a few others, I do want an optical drive in my next Mac.  I do still use CDs and DVDs.  And that doesn't look like it will be changing any time soon.  Thank you for not hating on me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you stated your usage needs and desires.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #118 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


From your reasoning for not discontinuing a product line, this doesn't show at all.

Again, yes, we have. You just refuse to accept our reasons. Sounds like someone else here.
Have you looked in the mirror? Your argument has been "I said so" completely dismissing any rational explanation of people's real use needs. Offer up evidence that what these people are saying isn't valid and then maybe just maybe you points might be accepted.
Quote:
I don't figure they WILL until the retinas can hit the same price points while retaining Apple's profits, but that doesn't mean the old models shouldn't be dropped as soon as possible.

Dropping of the old models will depend on sales and user feedback. I suspect Apple is dealing with a Mini rebellion here with people completely rejecting the feature set of the retina MBPs. The rMBP simply are not a machine with a configuration set that many pro users are willing to adopt, excellent screen or not. Apple might try to force rMBP down users throats when they can get the price down but that isn't likely to go over well at all. The reality is user have a choice in the AIR models if a limited feature set is OK by them.
post #119 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I don't think that tests anything. If the original MBP stays around this yer it will likely be because the retina isn't selling that well. Now if that is true then the question becomes why? Here there are many answers and each of them is valid from the buyers point of view. From Apples standpoint they would need to understand why the retina isn't selling well so they can adjust the design accordingly. That only if the research shows that the design is an issue, the primary factor might be price. If price is the issue offering the current Original MBP at a discounted price might have a positive impact on their ability to sustain strong sakes.

It could be the Retina isn't selling well but it may also be that the Retina is sell well but the older MBPs are also sell well enough to keep them around. The Pod mini far outsold the later renamed iPod Classic, and the iPod Nano outsold both of them, and perhaps even the iPod Shuffle despite its much lower price, but they still kept the iPod Classic around. On top of that aren't the iPod Touches accounting for about half of all iPod sales since it's release [citation needed]? I think that shows that it selling well enough without any real cost to them in R&D can keep a product around even if other models are selling through the roof.
Quote:
WiFi being there has nothing to do with the need for an Ethernet jack. You make the mistake of thinking the two technologies are interchangeable but they aren't. Not even close really.

WiFi is certainly not a replacement for all types of networked communication, especially in regards to security, but they are both interchangeable for all intents and purposes as they are networking technologies.
Quote:
The retina machine comes with few ports than the conventional MBP. As for the ODD I really don't buy the idea that ODD users are the minority. The demand isn't as strong as in the past but not having it built into a laptop, for occasional use, can be a buying factor.

I'd say the success of the MBA, the rise of the netbook, the iPad, and now Ultrabook-class notebooks is proof that people are selling less of a need to have an ODD not only on them at all times but built into their notebook at all times.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #120 of 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Dropping of the old models will depend on sales and user feedback. I suspect Apple is dealing with a Mini rebellion here with people completely rejecting the feature set of the retina MBPs.

Speaking of "mini" recall that Apple completely dropped the ODD from their entry-level desktop PC before moving that to their 15" MBP, then their 13" MBP, and then their iMacs. If this was a major issue and not having an ODD in the MBAs or the iPad wasn't enough to create the rebellion then removing it from a desktop PC should have set off all the alarms if there were going to be any. I am not convinced the next Mac Pro will even have an ODD, and if it does I'd guess it will be only slot for the drive, not two.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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