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US Justice Department details Apple's e-book 'conspiracy' in opening arguments - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure how the break even pricing harmed consumers. Isn't that the issue at hand? The DoJ is claiming that Apple, by forcing the prices up by some 30% across the board, was bad for consumers.

 

 

"yes, the customer pays a little more, but that's what you want anyway" - Steven Jobs, on eBook pricing...

 

 
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think everyone knew that vastly different pricing on the same book would not work out for a more expensive Apple bookstore. If there was going to be any profit, the prices needed to go up. Apple would not agree to a higher price than Amazon because it would mean instant fail for them. The only choices were publishers take a hit or Amazon raise their prices. Of course there was the one other alternative, Apple play the same game Amazon was playing. Give away some books as a loss leader. Of course we know that was never going to happen.

That is complete BS. There was no "more expensive Apple bookstore." Apple didn't set the price, they only set their take of the price. If the publishers give away their books gets 30% nothing just like with the App Store. The only way Apple doesn't directly profit is if they are free. If a bestseller is sold at $10 then Apple gets $3. You don't see $3 as a profit?

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post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That was a bit different since Netscape was a really tiny company and MS took advantage of that by giving away IE for free.

In this case both Apple and Amazon are large well funded companies. Apple could have entered the ebook market easily and matched Amazons pricing. After becoming well established it would be more like the oil companies with petrol stations on opposite corners. The prices move up and down, mostly up, and the other company matches the price. That is not collusion it is just competition. If one station raises the price a nickel the other company can do likewise or keep their price lower to try to attract the other company's customers, however, many customers would pay the slightly higher price due to loyalty.

Apple just tried to jump into the game and change the rules in one fell swoop.

And what mom and pop shops could have set up eBook stores with Amazon's predatory pricing? Zero! Only Apple had the resources to make deals with publishers individually to balance the scales of fair competition. There are plenty of places to get digital music from the major labels but not eBooks.

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post #44 of 72

How weird: on every single slide where the DoJ shows an example of eBooks being sold by Amazon, Amazon is losing money.  Every one.  If I were on the jury I would be completely dumbfounded by this point, especially if I owned any Amazon stock.  I'd be wondering why the publishers didn't just crank up the list prices for their eBooks.  If Amazon is going to pay me $12.50 for a book I price at $25 and turn around and sell it for $9.99, I might as well set the price to $30 or $300 and let 'zon keep selling it for 10 bucks.

 

In other words, the DoJ slides are clearly not telling the whole story and they are being too obvious about it.

post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

How weird: on every single slide where the DoJ shows an example of eBooks being sold by Amazon, Amazon is losing money.  Every one.  If I were on the jury I would be completely dumbfounded by this point...

There is no jury. This is a bench trial, which means the Judge rules on the merits.
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post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post


"yes, the customer pays a little more, but that's what you want anyway" - Steven Jobs, on eBook pricing...

Yes, that is what they obviously wanted because Amazon was hurting the future of the digitally sourced book by pricing them so low. So where exactly did Jobs force anyone to do anything or collude with them? Do you think someone pointing out the transparent wishes of others as being trickery? Burn him at the stake¡
Edited by SolipsismX - 6/3/13 at 2:05pm

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post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

What I find funny about this is the fact this happens every day right in front of everyone in companies public communications. It is illegal for companies to collude, however it seem like it is only illegal if it is done behind close doors or via email or phone calls. 

 

Everyday companies broadcast public statement about what they plan to do as a business, such as hey we loosing money so we going to stop loosing money by cutting production and holding or raising pricing, the next thing you know is the competitors are doing the exact same things. Companies have been doing this for a long time, they make statements and wait to see what their competitors do. If they follow or make similar public statement then they know they can follow their plan which is to raise pricing. Never once did they have to call one another. Our government is so stupid since they believe the only way to collude is to meeting in person and put it all in writing. Public statement is the best agreement you can have as a competitor since if the company makes those statement and them not do it then the share holder will be all over your ass.

 

As a person who negotiate deals all the time, I see nothing wrong in the apples conversation, it is part of the negotiation tactics, you tell all your suppliers that the other guys is winning to do something are you willing to do the same, sometimes it is true and some time is a bluff just to see if you can get one guy to roll over. I said this before, companies are free to sell product at what ever price they want, since when is it illegal to raise your pricing, consumer will vote with their pocket books if the price is too high they will go elsewhere. The Recording industry learn this lesson the hard way, they gave the public garbage at a high price so the public stole only the pieces they like since they could not but it at any price.

 

I personally think this is a dog and pony show by the DOJ. 

 

But do your negotiations include persuading your vendors to force *your* competitors into raising their prices because you don't want to complete at that low price point? And are you negotiating with vendors which represent 90% (just making up a number here) of the industry? That makes a wee bit of a difference when it comes to antitrust laws I think.
post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) Amazon's prices weren't break-even. Not even close.

You're quite right, Amazon was making a profit on the vast majority of eBooks.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That is complete BS. There was no "more expensive Apple bookstore." Apple didn't set the price, they only set their take of the price. If the publishers give away their books gets 30% nothing just like with the App Store. The only way Apple doesn't directly profit is if they are free. If a bestseller is sold at $10 then Apple gets $3. You don't see $3 as a profit?

My one and only point was that higher prices on the same book would look bad for Apple. Sure they would make a profit on anything they sold to loyal Apple fans but they would be burned by the media and that might tarnish the other parts of their golden iBusiness.

 

BTW I just went to the iTunes iBook store and I could not find any new best sellers. The search in that store is horrible.

 

Edit: Actually I did find one quite by accident published last month and on the NYT Best seller list priced at $12.99 same price as Amazon.

 

Zero Hour. But if you search for it in the iBooks store it returns nothing relevant.


Edited by mstone - 6/3/13 at 2:28pm

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post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And what mom and pop shops could have set up eBook stores with Amazon's predatory pricing? Zero! Only Apple had the resources to make deals with publishers individually to balance the scales of fair competition. There are plenty of places to get digital music from the major labels but not eBooks.

A1 Books -- Sells hardback and eBooks, ebooks in LIT, PDF, or MOBI.
Adult eBook Shop -- Specialist in adult erotic ebooks in all genres. Easy to use site with formats including MOBI, EPUB, PRC, PDF & LIT. Excerpts and free ebooks available.
AKW Books -- Independent publisher of new, top-quality eBooks in all genres. Several popular formats including PDF, PRC, LIT, & EPUB. No porn or erotica. No DRM.
All Romance ebooks - ebook site specializing in romance. Various formats (not all formats available for each book sold) usually ePUB, MOBI and PDF. Some freebies; there are coupon deals. Full range of romance. Look for the "flame" ratings to determine how explicit the content.
Amazon Non-Kindle format -- offered in Adobe PDF, HTML, for inexpensive prices. Some are free. HTML eBooks and PDF eBooks
Ambrosia Publishing -- A store featuring Graphic Novels (Comic books) in CBZ, Adobe PDF, PSP, Nintendo DS, and iPod formats as well as traditional printed versions.
Barnes and Noble -- All eBooks seem to have DRM. They feature eReader format books and ePUB but both use their own brand of DRM.
BLTC Press -- Inexpensive eBooks in Sony Reader and Kindle (MobiPocket) format.
BookGlutton -- An eBook store for published and unpublished books. Books are read and discussed in a browser tool called The Unbound Reader - no format required.
BookHabit -- An eBook store for unpublished or self published books. The price begins at $2.50 and goes up as the book gets more popular. Books are available in Adobe PDF format.
BookieJar -- An eBook store for complete and ongoing books (chapter by chapter) from independent publishers and authors. Offers autographed eBooks. Books are available in HTML,ePub, Mobi format.
BooksOnBoard -- One of the larger selections of eBooks in different DRM-protected formats, reasonably priced. Easy graphic tutorials online for new ebook readers.
BookViewCafe -- Author's collective has pdf of premium content sampler.
Borders -- This site is primarily a rebadged Kobobooks site at the present time. They have primarily ePub eBooks.
Club Lighthouse Publishing -- Supports Adobe PDF (formatted for iPhones), Hiebook, HTML, RB, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and eBookman.
Coolerbooks.com -- Features ePUB but sells books in other formats as well. They claim ADE format which could be either ePUB or PDF. They also have LIT.
Cyber Book Depot -- Discount eBooks in four formats: Microsoft Word, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Microsoft Reader.
CyberRead -- eBooks in four formats: ePUB, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Microsoft Reader.
Diesel eBook Store -- One of the largest eBookstores with DRM-protected and non DRM-protected books in ePub, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Palm formats. Over 2 million free eBooks.
Digital Magazine Deals -- Offers digital magazine subscriptions across a range of topics.
Digital Text Books.com -- Specializes in Text books but does have some other books as well. Books are available in ADE (likely PDF) and VBK formats.
Direct eBooks -- Bookstore in Ireland but books are available worldwide. Support includes PDF, LIT, and eReader.
Doppeltext -- features Bilingual books - for ePub 3, Kindle, and web browsers. They use professional published translation. Click a paragraph to see it translated in the flow or set up parallel flows.
Double Dragon Publishing, Inc -- Publisher and bookstore with DRM-free multiformat eBooks (Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, Palm, Hiebook, iSilo, and Rocket Ebook; not all available for every book), pBooks and audio books.
eBookMall -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books in epub ePUB, PDF Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, Palm and MobiPocket formats. Also offering books by independent authors without DRM protection.
eBooks.com -- Bookstore selling Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and Adobe PDF formats. eBooks.com has a new feature called eb20 (eBook 2.0) which is a format for eBooks that can be read in a browser. They offer this as an alternative reading device for books you buy. You buy the book in a standard eBook format but are entitled to also read it instantly with your web browser. They claim that the eb20 server improves the on-line reading experience for any browser.
eBookshot -- Bookstore selling ebooks in all genres - no adults-only material child friendly site. Very easy to use site selling PRC format. Free sample ebooks available.
eBooks About Everything -- Contains books in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and Palm formats. Not every book is in all formats.
Ebook y libros (ebooks and books) -- Ebooks in different languages.
eChapterone -- eBooks in LIT, eReader, and ADE. Read chapter one for free.
eFollett -- Focuses on college text books. This site is actually a portal to local college eBook stores.
Eee PC books -- Has Adobe PDF formatted eBooks specifically designed for reading on an 800x480 pixel device like the Asus eee PC. They will work fine on any device that can read PDF with this size screen or larger.
Ellibs Bookstore -- DRM-protected, non-fiction books in Adobe PDF format.
ePub Bud - most children's books and self published. Some are free. There is also publishing help on the site.
Ereadable -- Has books in DRM-protected Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and Palm eReader formats.
EZ Ebook Store -- Offers quality Adobe PDF eBooks in Business, Self-Help, Ebay Guides and more.
Feedbooks -- Based in France Feedbooks offers ebooks (ePub DRM) from the major publishers along with public domain titles and "original content."
Fictionwise -- Bookstore offering DRM-protected and DRM-free books. This store offers books in various formats, including secure (DRM) Fictionwise eReader (as of September 2010, Fictionwise is no longer offering other secure formats). They also offer many books in multiformat (DRM-free) including Adobe Acrobat (PDF), Microsoft Reader (LIT), eReader (-ER.PDB), Palm Doc (PDB), Rocket/REB1100 (RB), Franklin eBookMan (FUB), Hiebook (KML), Sony Reader (LRF), iSilo (-IS.PDB), MobiPocket (PRC), Kindle Compatible (MOBI), OEBFF Full VGA (IMP), OEBFF Half VGA (IMP). Also see Fictionwise. This site also offers subscriptions.
Find Digital Magazines -- UK based iPad Digital Magazine Seller
FirstyFish™ -- UK independent ePUB eBook store.
Harlequin eBook Boutique -- Available in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket formats.
Google eBook store -- Google now has a regular online bookstore for more recent books in ePUB format.
Harper Collins eBooks -- Has books in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket.
Horror Mall -- A genre specific store with PDF, ePUB and MOBI formatted eBooks
immatériel.fr -- French language and DRM-free ebooks mostly in PDF, but also ePUB and MOBI. Various subjects, including computer sciences, business and French literature.
Ignatius Press -- Leading Catholic publishing house in the United States. Ignatius Press' e-books are available in .prc MobiPocket and .epub ePUB format.
Kindle Shops eBooks -- Go Green and buy a Kindle - KindleShops.com has various eBooks, newspapers, magazine, and text books.
Kobo -- Targeted at mobile devices including cellphones. Books are purchased and then read on iPhone, Blackberry, Palm Pre, or downloaded in ePUB.
Leer-e -- Spanish language eBooks. Books as low as €5.
Leqtor -- Spanish language eBooks. Seems to be mostly (perhaps all) ePUB.
Libreka.de -- German source for eBooks, claims 100,000 eBooks.
Livre numérique -- French eBooks from a Canadian site.
The Ludwig von Mises Institute -- The research and educational center of classical liberalism, libertarian political theory, and the Austrian School of economics. Books and Articles are Adobe PDF or HTML. Many are free.
Lulu -- Lulu now offers ebooks in both ePub and PDF formats, with and without Adobe DRM, at publisher's choice. Some are free.
Lybrary.com features ebooks in all subject areas and is particularly well sorted in magic (magic tricks, mentalism, card tricks, illusions, sleight of hand, ...), gambling (poker, blackjack, craps, ...), and games (bridge, chess, sudoku, ...).
Mendele HeBooks -- features Hebrew ebooks in all genres. All books are in EPUB format and using Social DRM only.
My Bookstore and More -- Specializes in fiction books. They have multiformat books available where you can pick the format and change it later. Supported formats include Adobe PDF, IMP, Microsoft Reader, HTML, MobiPocket, RB.
My EZRead.com -- All ePUB and/or PDF eBooks. Click the link at the top for free Google Books.
MobileReference -- Publisher and seller of Travel Guides, Phrasebooks, Quick-Study Guides, Reference Materials, Fiction, Philosophy, and other e-Books designed for optimal navigation on smartphones, notebook computers, electronic Readers like Amazon Kindle and Sony eReader, and other devices where ease of navigation is important. Supported formats include MobiPocket and Adobe PDF.
Noble Romance Publishing -- Independent erotic romance eBook publisher and seller. Small selection as of Nov 2008. Sells DRM-free multiformat (Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, HTML).
Norton Ebooks -- "Norton ’s ebooks are the same as Norton’s paper books. ebooks cost much less than paper books—usually 50% less!"
NueVer Publishing –- Good range of indie eBooks and emagazines from $1 to $12(USD). Publishes a lot of new authors’ work.
Numilog -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books, Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket from many major publishers. Also some free eBooks. Et la première librairie numérique francophone (Also the first French-speaking digital bookstore).
O'Reilly and Associates -- Publisher of technical books aimed at software developers and computer systems administrators, either in dead-tree or DRM-free formats including EPUB, PDF, and MobiPocket formats.
OmniLit -- Bookstore with wide selection of small press romance (generally DRM-free) and major publisher titles (generally with DRM).
Packard Technologies -- Has taken popular Christian study books and made them available in MobiPocket format. They have links between books.
Packt Publications -- Technical eBooks in Adobe PDF. Mostly computer oriented.
Pan Macmillan -- DRM-free ebooks in ePUB and MobiPocket formats. Not many books yet, and terrible search/navigation (as of Jan 2009).
PDA bookstore -- A bookstore by Memoware. Memoware itself offers free eBooks. This site is powered by Fictionwise.
Penguin eBooks UK and Penguin eBooks USA -- Are now available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats. ePUB is starting to appear.
Powells -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF and eReader formats.
Pragmatic Programmers - Books about programming written by programmers. No-DRM, in ePUB, MOBI, and PDF.
Random House UK - Full selection of ePUB books using ADE. In the US eBooks are sold through dealers.
Read Without Paper -- Great eBooks from Australia & around the World. Over 110,000 Fiction & Non-Fiction Titles in Adobe PDF and/or Adobe ePUB formats with DRM. Also audiobooks in Overdrive WMA and Overdrive MP3 formats. Book store designed for ECO_Reader but these ebooks and audiobooks are also compatible with PCs, laptops and many other devices.
RemixBooks.com - Personalized books for children and adults, based on popular and classic public-domain works. DRM-free, ePUB and MOBI formats.
Ripple Reader -- Offers children's books for Windows and MacOS X computers. They have a free Reader download to read the books.
Schiel & Denver Book Publishers -- Bookstore with DRM-protected eBooks published by Schiel & Denver. These books are available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats with DRM; also self publishing resources for indie authors.
SEAM Publishing -- Bookstore with non-DRM eBooks published by SEAM Publishing. These books are available in ePUB and MOBI formats. SEAM Publishing is an indie publisher specializing in ebooks by bloggers.
Simon and Schuster -- Bookstore with DRM-protected eBooks published by Simon and Schuster. These books are available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats with DRM.
Smashwords Smashwords is an ebook publishing and distribution platform for ebook authors, publishers and readers offering multi-format, DRM-free ebooks, ready for immediate sampling and purchase, and readable on any e-reading device.
Suvudu-Random House -- Random House Sci-Fi and Fantasy book site.
The Ebooks And Software Mall -- Sells ebooks and other kinds of digital products. All products have their own formats such as LIT, PDF, or MOBI.
Tienda del Ebook -- Ebooks in different languages.
Tyndale House Publishers -- Christian book publisher featuring eBooks in Mobipocket, Microsoft Reader, eReader, and Adobe PDF formats.
UB Reader -- Huge eBook store with more than 650 000 eBooks in ePub and Adobe PDF formats.
Ubibooks -- Features MobiPocket books in several languages including English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, and Dutch. They feature the Bookeen Cybook Gen3 reader.
Walk Broad Publishing -- Specializes in illustrated children's eBooks. Currently they support Adobe PDF that has been custom sized to support 6" E-ink devices. They intend to add other formats in the future.
WDS Publisher -- This website publishes and sells ebooks
Web-Books.com has books in ePUB and Web Browser formats as well as online reading. Many are free.
Web Warrior tools -- A specialized eBook site selling "how to" books for the Internet and other topics.
WEXLER -- Largest selection of Russian eBooks, both paid and free.
Whiskey Creek Press -- Store that has Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket and HTML as well as printed books. They also have a Torrid Romance site.
WH Smith -- A brick and mortar bookstore with eBooks from England in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket formats.
World eBook Fair -- $8.95 a year subscription permits downloading lots of eBooks in PDF format. Mostly this is a collection of books that can be found free otherwise but may be hard to locate.
WOWIO -- Offers some free books to read online. Sells ePub, PDF, eReader formats and features comics and graphic novels in addition to regular eBooks.
XinXii -- Online shop for eBooks from independent authors: Several categories, DRM-free, multiple languages and formats (incuding EPUB, MOBI, PDF). XinXii was the first German-speaking digital self-publishing and distribution platform, and is now one of the leading platforms in Europe.
Zinio -- A site featuring digital magazine subscriptions. They have a US or International list of magazines in multiple languages.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

A1 Books -- Sells hardback and eBooks, ebooks in LIT, PDF, or MOBI.
Adult eBook Shop -- Specialist in adult erotic ebooks in all genres. Easy to use site with formats including MOBI, EPUB, PRC, PDF & LIT. Excerpts and free ebooks available.
AKW Books -- Independent publisher of new, top-quality eBooks in all genres. Several popular formats including PDF, PRC, LIT, & EPUB. No porn or erotica. No DRM.
All Romance ebooks - ebook site specializing in romance. Various formats (not all formats available for each book sold) usually ePUB, MOBI and PDF. Some freebies; there are coupon deals. Full range of romance. Look for the "flame" ratings to determine how explicit the content.
Amazon Non-Kindle format -- offered in Adobe PDF, HTML, for inexpensive prices. Some are free. HTML eBooks and PDF eBooks
Ambrosia Publishing -- A store featuring Graphic Novels (Comic books) in CBZ, Adobe PDF, PSP, Nintendo DS, and iPod formats as well as traditional printed versions.
Barnes and Noble -- All eBooks seem to have DRM. They feature eReader format books and ePUB but both use their own brand of DRM.
BLTC Press -- Inexpensive eBooks in Sony Reader and Kindle (MobiPocket) format.
BookGlutton -- An eBook store for published and unpublished books. Books are read and discussed in a browser tool called The Unbound Reader - no format required.
BookHabit -- An eBook store for unpublished or self published books. The price begins at $2.50 and goes up as the book gets more popular. Books are available in Adobe PDF format.
BookieJar -- An eBook store for complete and ongoing books (chapter by chapter) from independent publishers and authors. Offers autographed eBooks. Books are available in HTML,ePub, Mobi format.
BooksOnBoard -- One of the larger selections of eBooks in different DRM-protected formats, reasonably priced. Easy graphic tutorials online for new ebook readers.
BookViewCafe -- Author's collective has pdf of premium content sampler.
Borders -- This site is primarily a rebadged Kobobooks site at the present time. They have primarily ePub eBooks.
Club Lighthouse Publishing -- Supports Adobe PDF (formatted for iPhones), Hiebook, HTML, RB, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and eBookman.
Coolerbooks.com -- Features ePUB but sells books in other formats as well. They claim ADE format which could be either ePUB or PDF. They also have LIT.
Cyber Book Depot -- Discount eBooks in four formats: Microsoft Word, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Microsoft Reader.
CyberRead -- eBooks in four formats: ePUB, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Microsoft Reader.
Diesel eBook Store -- One of the largest eBookstores with DRM-protected and non DRM-protected books in ePub, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, and Palm formats. Over 2 million free eBooks.
Digital Magazine Deals -- Offers digital magazine subscriptions across a range of topics.
Digital Text Books.com -- Specializes in Text books but does have some other books as well. Books are available in ADE (likely PDF) and VBK formats.
Direct eBooks -- Bookstore in Ireland but books are available worldwide. Support includes PDF, LIT, and eReader.
Doppeltext -- features Bilingual books - for ePub 3, Kindle, and web browsers. They use professional published translation. Click a paragraph to see it translated in the flow or set up parallel flows.
Double Dragon Publishing, Inc -- Publisher and bookstore with DRM-free multiformat eBooks (Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, Palm, Hiebook, iSilo, and Rocket Ebook; not all available for every book), pBooks and audio books.
eBookMall -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books in epub ePUB, PDF Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, Palm and MobiPocket formats. Also offering books by independent authors without DRM protection.
eBooks.com -- Bookstore selling Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and Adobe PDF formats. eBooks.com has a new feature called eb20 (eBook 2.0) which is a format for eBooks that can be read in a browser. They offer this as an alternative reading device for books you buy. You buy the book in a standard eBook format but are entitled to also read it instantly with your web browser. They claim that the eb20 server improves the on-line reading experience for any browser.
eBookshot -- Bookstore selling ebooks in all genres - no adults-only material child friendly site. Very easy to use site selling PRC format. Free sample ebooks available.
eBooks About Everything -- Contains books in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket, and Palm formats. Not every book is in all formats.
Ebook y libros (ebooks and books) -- Ebooks in different languages.
eChapterone -- eBooks in LIT, eReader, and ADE. Read chapter one for free.
eFollett -- Focuses on college text books. This site is actually a portal to local college eBook stores.
Eee PC books -- Has Adobe PDF formatted eBooks specifically designed for reading on an 800x480 pixel device like the Asus eee PC. They will work fine on any device that can read PDF with this size screen or larger.
Ellibs Bookstore -- DRM-protected, non-fiction books in Adobe PDF format.
ePub Bud - most children's books and self published. Some are free. There is also publishing help on the site.
Ereadable -- Has books in DRM-protected Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and Palm eReader formats.
EZ Ebook Store -- Offers quality Adobe PDF eBooks in Business, Self-Help, Ebay Guides and more.
Feedbooks -- Based in France Feedbooks offers ebooks (ePub DRM) from the major publishers along with public domain titles and "original content."
Fictionwise -- Bookstore offering DRM-protected and DRM-free books. This store offers books in various formats, including secure (DRM) Fictionwise eReader (as of September 2010, Fictionwise is no longer offering other secure formats). They also offer many books in multiformat (DRM-free) including Adobe Acrobat (PDF), Microsoft Reader (LIT), eReader (-ER.PDB), Palm Doc (PDB), Rocket/REB1100 (RB), Franklin eBookMan (FUB), Hiebook (KML), Sony Reader (LRF), iSilo (-IS.PDB), MobiPocket (PRC), Kindle Compatible (MOBI), OEBFF Full VGA (IMP), OEBFF Half VGA (IMP). Also see Fictionwise. This site also offers subscriptions.
Find Digital Magazines -- UK based iPad Digital Magazine Seller
FirstyFish™ -- UK independent ePUB eBook store.
Harlequin eBook Boutique -- Available in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket formats.
Google eBook store -- Google now has a regular online bookstore for more recent books in ePUB format.
Harper Collins eBooks -- Has books in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket.
Horror Mall -- A genre specific store with PDF, ePUB and MOBI formatted eBooks
immatériel.fr -- French language and DRM-free ebooks mostly in PDF, but also ePUB and MOBI. Various subjects, including computer sciences, business and French literature.
Ignatius Press -- Leading Catholic publishing house in the United States. Ignatius Press' e-books are available in .prc MobiPocket and .epub ePUB format.
Kindle Shops eBooks -- Go Green and buy a Kindle - KindleShops.com has various eBooks, newspapers, magazine, and text books.
Kobo -- Targeted at mobile devices including cellphones. Books are purchased and then read on iPhone, Blackberry, Palm Pre, or downloaded in ePUB.
Leer-e -- Spanish language eBooks. Books as low as €5.
Leqtor -- Spanish language eBooks. Seems to be mostly (perhaps all) ePUB.
Libreka.de -- German source for eBooks, claims 100,000 eBooks.
Livre numérique -- French eBooks from a Canadian site.
The Ludwig von Mises Institute -- The research and educational center of classical liberalism, libertarian political theory, and the Austrian School of economics. Books and Articles are Adobe PDF or HTML. Many are free.
Lulu -- Lulu now offers ebooks in both ePub and PDF formats, with and without Adobe DRM, at publisher's choice. Some are free.
Lybrary.com features ebooks in all subject areas and is particularly well sorted in magic (magic tricks, mentalism, card tricks, illusions, sleight of hand, ...), gambling (poker, blackjack, craps, ...), and games (bridge, chess, sudoku, ...).
Mendele HeBooks -- features Hebrew ebooks in all genres. All books are in EPUB format and using Social DRM only.
My Bookstore and More -- Specializes in fiction books. They have multiformat books available where you can pick the format and change it later. Supported formats include Adobe PDF, IMP, Microsoft Reader, HTML, MobiPocket, RB.
My EZRead.com -- All ePUB and/or PDF eBooks. Click the link at the top for free Google Books.
MobileReference -- Publisher and seller of Travel Guides, Phrasebooks, Quick-Study Guides, Reference Materials, Fiction, Philosophy, and other e-Books designed for optimal navigation on smartphones, notebook computers, electronic Readers like Amazon Kindle and Sony eReader, and other devices where ease of navigation is important. Supported formats include MobiPocket and Adobe PDF.
Noble Romance Publishing -- Independent erotic romance eBook publisher and seller. Small selection as of Nov 2008. Sells DRM-free multiformat (Adobe PDF, MobiPocket, HTML).
Norton Ebooks -- "Norton ’s ebooks are the same as Norton’s paper books. ebooks cost much less than paper books—usually 50% less!"
NueVer Publishing –- Good range of indie eBooks and emagazines from $1 to $12(USD). Publishes a lot of new authors’ work.
Numilog -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books, Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket from many major publishers. Also some free eBooks. Et la première librairie numérique francophone (Also the first French-speaking digital bookstore).
O'Reilly and Associates -- Publisher of technical books aimed at software developers and computer systems administrators, either in dead-tree or DRM-free formats including EPUB, PDF, and MobiPocket formats.
OmniLit -- Bookstore with wide selection of small press romance (generally DRM-free) and major publisher titles (generally with DRM).
Packard Technologies -- Has taken popular Christian study books and made them available in MobiPocket format. They have links between books.
Packt Publications -- Technical eBooks in Adobe PDF. Mostly computer oriented.
Pan Macmillan -- DRM-free ebooks in ePUB and MobiPocket formats. Not many books yet, and terrible search/navigation (as of Jan 2009).
PDA bookstore -- A bookstore by Memoware. Memoware itself offers free eBooks. This site is powered by Fictionwise.
Penguin eBooks UK and Penguin eBooks USA -- Are now available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats. ePUB is starting to appear.
Powells -- Bookstore with DRM-protected books, Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF and eReader formats.
Pragmatic Programmers - Books about programming written by programmers. No-DRM, in ePUB, MOBI, and PDF.
Random House UK - Full selection of ePUB books using ADE. In the US eBooks are sold through dealers.
Read Without Paper -- Great eBooks from Australia & around the World. Over 110,000 Fiction & Non-Fiction Titles in Adobe PDF and/or Adobe ePUB formats with DRM. Also audiobooks in Overdrive WMA and Overdrive MP3 formats. Book store designed for ECO_Reader but these ebooks and audiobooks are also compatible with PCs, laptops and many other devices.
RemixBooks.com - Personalized books for children and adults, based on popular and classic public-domain works. DRM-free, ePUB and MOBI formats.
Ripple Reader -- Offers children's books for Windows and MacOS X computers. They have a free Reader download to read the books.
Schiel & Denver Book Publishers -- Bookstore with DRM-protected eBooks published by Schiel & Denver. These books are available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats with DRM; also self publishing resources for indie authors.
SEAM Publishing -- Bookstore with non-DRM eBooks published by SEAM Publishing. These books are available in ePUB and MOBI formats. SEAM Publishing is an indie publisher specializing in ebooks by bloggers.
Simon and Schuster -- Bookstore with DRM-protected eBooks published by Simon and Schuster. These books are available in Microsoft Reader, Adobe PDF, and eReader formats with DRM.
Smashwords Smashwords is an ebook publishing and distribution platform for ebook authors, publishers and readers offering multi-format, DRM-free ebooks, ready for immediate sampling and purchase, and readable on any e-reading device.
Suvudu-Random House -- Random House Sci-Fi and Fantasy book site.
The Ebooks And Software Mall -- Sells ebooks and other kinds of digital products. All products have their own formats such as LIT, PDF, or MOBI.
Tienda del Ebook -- Ebooks in different languages.
Tyndale House Publishers -- Christian book publisher featuring eBooks in Mobipocket, Microsoft Reader, eReader, and Adobe PDF formats.
UB Reader -- Huge eBook store with more than 650 000 eBooks in ePub and Adobe PDF formats.
Ubibooks -- Features MobiPocket books in several languages including English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, and Dutch. They feature the Bookeen Cybook Gen3 reader.
Walk Broad Publishing -- Specializes in illustrated children's eBooks. Currently they support Adobe PDF that has been custom sized to support 6" E-ink devices. They intend to add other formats in the future.
WDS Publisher -- This website publishes and sells ebooks
Web-Books.com has books in ePUB and Web Browser formats as well as online reading. Many are free.
Web Warrior tools -- A specialized eBook site selling "how to" books for the Internet and other topics.
WEXLER -- Largest selection of Russian eBooks, both paid and free.
Whiskey Creek Press -- Store that has Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, MobiPocket and HTML as well as printed books. They also have a Torrid Romance site.
WH Smith -- A brick and mortar bookstore with eBooks from England in Adobe PDF, Microsoft Reader, and MobiPocket formats.
World eBook Fair -- $8.95 a year subscription permits downloading lots of eBooks in PDF format. Mostly this is a collection of books that can be found free otherwise but may be hard to locate.
WOWIO -- Offers some free books to read online. Sells ePub, PDF, eReader formats and features comics and graphic novels in addition to regular eBooks.
XinXii -- Online shop for eBooks from independent authors: Several categories, DRM-free, multiple languages and formats (incuding EPUB, MOBI, PDF). XinXii was the first German-speaking digital self-publishing and distribution platform, and is now one of the leading platforms in Europe.
Zinio -- A site featuring digital magazine subscriptions. They have a US or International list of magazines in multiple languages.

And every single one of these have deals with major publishers. How about, do any of these sell books from all the major publishers in question?

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post #52 of 72

Apple making the same deal with multiple publishers is not "colluding" nor is it "price fixing".

 

Making a deal that lets publishers set their own price, is not "price fixing".  It is enabling a market where publishers can compete on price.

 

Amazon was price fixing and engaging in dumping by ignoring the publisher's prices and selling books for $9.99-- below market, and below what they were paying for them.  This is classic dumping. 

 

Apple and the agency model broke the near monopoly that Amazon had.  Apparently competing with a monopoly is against "anti-trust" laws these days.

 

Really, it's all political.  Amazon paid off someone and so Apple's in the cross hairs.   Occam's razor- that's the only thing that makes sense.

 

Cause there's no smoking gun here.  Not even a whif of anything improper in these opening slides. Nor has anything improper shown up in any of the previous reports on the issue. 

 

This case is really a trial of the Administration and the "department of justice".   Because, frankly, this case should not gone to court.  Apple busted a near natural monopoly by offering better terms. Offering better terms is what's known as "competing".  It's COMPETITIVE, not ANTI-COMPETITIVE.

 

That people actually think Apple might have done something wrong here shows how uneducated and gullible to propaganda people are these days.

post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

How weird: on every single slide where the DoJ shows an example of eBooks being sold by Amazon, Amazon is losing money.  Every one.  If I were on the jury I would be completely dumbfounded by this point, especially if I owned any Amazon stock.  I'd be wondering why the publishers didn't just crank up the list prices for their eBooks.  If Amazon is going to pay me $12.50 for a book I price at $25 and turn around and sell it for $9.99, I might as well set the price to $30 or $300 and let 'zon keep selling it for 10 bucks.

 

In other words, the DoJ slides are clearly not telling the whole story and they are being too obvious about it.

 

Don't know all of Amazon's pricing, but the DoJ is showing that Amazon was engaging in dumping-- selling books at a loss to grab control over the market, and at the time, Amazon had near monopoly control over the market.

 

The idea that Apple's telling publishers "you can set whatever price you want on our store, you just can't charge more on our store than the prices you set elsewhere" -- eg: keeping prices down, and offering them more pricing flexibility is somehow "colluding" to "fix prices" is beyond absurd.

 

But, Amazon didn't like the competition, so they called Washington. 

 

That's the difference between capitalism and socialism.  In a capitalist system, Amazon wouldn't have been able to get Washington involve to take their competitor (Apple) out.  In a socialist system, you don't have rule of law, but rule of pull and political influence.

 

Thus you get politically motivated trials like this.  Pretty much the definition of corruption-- instead of protecting consumers from a price fixing monopolist like Amazon (they have evidence of this in their opening remarks) They are going after the monopolist's competition. 

post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

And what mom and pop shops could have set up eBook stores with Amazon's predatory pricing? Zero! Only Apple had the resources to make deals with publishers individually to balance the scales of fair competition. There are plenty of places to get digital music from the major labels but not eBooks.

Strange I couldn't quote your last post. You're right there are no mom and pop ebook stores with the major publishers just like there's no mom and pop online digital music stores with music from all the major labels.
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post #55 of 72
I doubt anyone will be that interested but all the filings in this case so far are available on the DoJ website here:
http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/applebooks.html
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post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Well of course you do. Hey look, we agree. 1biggrin.gif

With you being somewhat of a legal expert you no doubt recognize that the opening statements for both sides only serve as an outline of how they intend to present their arguments and not include everything they think they have to prove their case. The actual evidence is yet to be presented. Within a few weeks it will be clearer as to the facts and whether any of it rises to the level of illegality..

As usual, we have Gatorguy throwing out red herrings.

Several people cited the clause in question as 'proof' that Apple was guilty. I pointed out that it was no such thing - and was not proof of guilt. The fact that there might be something else that might make Apple guilty does not make their statement correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure how the break even pricing harmed consumers. Isn't that the issue at hand? The DoJ is claiming that Apple, by forcing the prices up by some 30% across the board, was bad for consumers.

Think long term. What happens after Amazon gains control of the entire book selling market by putting brick and mortar chains out of business and by becoming the overwhelmingly dominant online seller (I saw figures like 80% of online sales were through Amazon). At that point, they can dictate any terms they want - and damage consumers in the bargain.

That's why the law does not require that you prove harm to consumers. Rather, specific actions are prima facie illegal - even without proof of harm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

Actually it may not be legal to share anyone company's pricing with its competitors.  Usually the selling company usually have agreements in place which bar a buying company from sharing the purchase price with anyone outside the company.Thus tell company A that Company B was willing to sell you their product at $X.xx could get you into civil as well as price fixing trouble. But you are right I see very poor negotiators tell competitors what the other guys price is to somehow to get the same or better. For all they knew Company A would have sold it for less and you just told them you were willing to accept Company's B pricing.

That has nothing to do with this case. Obviously, if you sign an agreement with Company A not to release their prices and you do so, Company A can sue you. That doesn't mean you're guilty of an antitrust violation - or breaking any law for that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post


"yes, the customer pays a little more, but that's what you want anyway" - Steven Jobs, on eBook pricing...

 

So? There's nothing illegal about showing a publisher how to make more money.

Try again.
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post #57 of 72
I love armchair lawyering. I suspect there's not a lot of knowledge here about the Sherman Antitrust Act and what it forbids, but that never prevents people from declaring their preferred conclusion.

Neither the Apple model or the Amazon model should be preferred. The Apple model, by fixing prices across all major publishers, isn't consumer friendly at all. The Amazon model, by undercutting prices and being willing to sell at a loss, is also very damaging because it's intended to keep competitors out of the market.

Not seeing the agreements in detail, I suspect where Apple may be fine is if the agreement allows for "Most Favored Nation" status. That would allow the publishers to sell at whatever price they want, but would need to give Apple the same deal. I don't think that runs afoul of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Edited by focher - 6/3/13 at 3:08pm
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Strange I couldn't quote your last post. You're right there are no mom and pop ebook stores with the major publishers just like there's no mom and pop online digital music stores with music from all the major labels.

Really? I am under the impression that Spotify, last.fm, and Pandora were able to get significant and profitable holds on digital music from major labels with humble beginnings that aren't far in the past.

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post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessi View Post

That's the difference between capitalism and socialism.  In a capitalist system, Amazon wouldn't have been able to get Washington involve to take their competitor (Apple) out.  In a socialist system, you don't have rule of law, but rule of pull and political influence.

You don't seem to have a very good grasp on the definitions of those terms.

post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If you look at all the slides it does look like Cue was doing coordination on what the others would agree to, including reporting conversations he had with one to the others. See PX-0159 and PX-0359 and PX-0718.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/145486131/U-S-v-Apple-Et-Al-Opening-Slides

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So?

There's nothing prima facie illegal about telling a company what another company had agreed to. You'd need much more than that to prove collusion.

Heck, if that was sufficient to prove collusion, then every single purchasing agent in the country would be charged. "But company Y agreed to give me xxxxx" is a very common (and completely legal) negotiating tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Well of course you do. Hey look, we agree. 1biggrin.gif

With you being somewhat of a legal expert you no doubt recognize that the opening statements for both sides only serve as an outline of how they intend to present their arguments and not include everything they think they have to prove their case. The actual evidence is yet to be presented. Within a few weeks it will be clearer as to the facts and whether any of it rises to the level of illegality..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

As usual, we have Gatorguy throwing out red herrings.

Several people cited the clause in question as 'proof' that Apple was guilty. I pointed out that it was no such thing - and was not proof of guilt. The fact that there might be something else that might make Apple guilty does not make their statement correct.
.

Yet the "several people" ((really?) you were supposedly replying to weren't the ones whose post you quoted and really replied to.. That was mine sir and I made no such claim. Red herring? I think not.
Edited by Gatorguy - 6/3/13 at 3:20pm
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post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Really? I am under the impression that Spotify, last.fm, and Pandora were able to get significant and profitable holds on digital music from major labels with humble beginnings that aren't far in the past.

One doesn't buy music directly from them, they have partner retailers.
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post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

One doesn't buy music directly from them, they have partner retailers.

I said get digital music and made no mention of an music store in the way you used it. The point is it' possible to get popular media from many sources that are from all the major labels, but before iBookstore came along I don't know of a single eBook vendor that let you buy or rent popular media from the major publishers.

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post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

As usual, we have Gatorguy throwing out red herrings.

Several people cited the clause in question as 'proof' that Apple was guilty. I pointed out that it was no such thing - and was not proof of guilt. The fact that there might be something else that might make Apple guilty does not make their statement correct.
Think long term. What happens after Amazon gains control of the entire book selling market by putting brick and mortar chains out of business and by becoming the overwhelmingly dominant online seller (I saw figures like 80% of online sales were through Amazon). At that point, they can dictate any terms they want - and damage consumers in the bargain

Just like when Apple eliminated all the B&M music store with iTunes? Did you cry for them?

You're a educated man so you should know full well that there doesn't need to be proof of guilt in a civil case. Remember OJ Simpson? Not guilty in criminal court but guilty in a civil court.
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post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I'm not sure how the break even pricing harmed consumers. Isn't that the issue at hand? The DoJ is claiming that Apple, by forcing the prices up by some 30% across the board, was bad for consumers.

Think long term. What happens after Amazon gains control of the entire book selling market by putting brick and mortar chains out of business and by becoming the overwhelmingly dominant online seller (I saw figures like 80% of online sales were through Amazon). At that point, they can dictate any terms they want - and damage consumers in the bargain.


Let me get this straight... So years from now once Amazon has put Apple iBookstore, Google Play Bookstore and Barnes & Noble completely out of business with predatory pricing and then they raise prices by 30%, all the Apple extremists will shout "See, that is what happens when you have a monopoly", however those same Apple apologists would be perfectly happy for Apple to make everyone raise the prices 30% starting tomorrow.

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post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I said get digital music and made no mention of an music store in the way you used it. The point is it' possible to get popular media from many sources that are from all the major labels, but before iBookstore came along I don't know of a single eBook vendor that let you buy or rent popular media from the major publishers.

Did you forget Barnes & Noble, and Sony's ebook store?
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post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Did you forget Barnes & Noble, and Sony's ebook store?

I always forget them. I seem to recall B&N had a store with at least some of the major publishers and had no idea that Sony had any store at all. How are they doing these days? Are they at least carving out a decent niche for themselves?

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post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always forget them. I seem to recall B&N had a store with at least some of the major publishers and had no idea that Sony had any store at all. How are they doing these days? Are they at least carving out a decent niche for themselves?

Sony came out with a eInk reader with their own store almost a full year before the Kindle. I don't know how well Sony is doing right now but I remember seeing their readers everywhere and now I don't. Quite frankly I'm surprised at how being a year late Amazon was still able to gain such dominance.
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post #68 of 72
The second to the last slide seems devastating. The guy asked Steve Jobs how the can possibly sell books for $14.99 when Amazon sells it for $9.99, and Jobs reply was 'the prices will all be the same'. The guy thinks Steve Jobs was crazy for even saying it out loud.
post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Sony came out with a eInk reader with their own store almost a full year before the Kindle. I don't know how well Sony is doing right now but I remember seeing their readers everywhere and now I don't. Quite frankly I'm surprised at how being a year late Amazon was still able to gain such dominance.

Oh yeah! I spent like $500 on a reader for my nephew back in the day. I don't recall how extensive their store was but the prices weren't very good. Seems as if Amazon killed any true competition but Sony also has a history of shooting themselves in the foot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrodriguez View Post

The second to the last slide seems devastating. The guy asked Steve Jobs how the can possibly sell books for $14.99 when Amazon sells it for $9.99, and Jobs reply was 'the prices will all be the same'. The guy thinks Steve Jobs was crazy for even saying it out loud.

That's what the MFN clause is. Well, it means that Amazon (or anyone else which would only happen once Amazon's artificial monopoly is reduced) can't sell it for less than what the charge Apple. MFN is not illegal. We've been over this many times. To prove price fixing you need to show Jobs/Apple stating what the prices will be, and to prove colluding you need to show Jobs/Apple getting all the publishers to talk to each other about conspiring.

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post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ah... my apologies.... I went back and checked: that was the ITC case you all were opining on.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Thanks for the correction. No prob. You can save the original post tho, since it's entirely possible I could be wrong about Apple and the ITC.

If that happens I've no issue owning what I said in advance of the ruling.
Guess you'll have to keep that post on ice a little longer 1smile.gif
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post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

This sounds like an easy win for Apple. If THIS "evidence" is part the big opening splash, that doesn't bode well for the DoJ's case.

 

You forget, however, that this is not a jury trial. You also forget, however, that the deciding judge has already publicly announced that she thinks Apple is guilty. Hard to overcome that kind of bias and prejudgement. 

post #72 of 72
oh. . . This particular email written by Mr. Jobs and meant for Eddy Cue doesn't help Apple's argument that they didn't care how the publishers handled Amazon.
http://fortunebrainstormtech.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/screen-shot-2013-06-12-at-5-21-23-am.png

For those too lazy to click a link:
Steve Jobs:
"I can live with this, as long as they move Amazon to the agent model too for new releases for the first year. . . "

EDIT: Fortune article suggesting it' might be an antitrust "smoking gun" from Steve Jobs.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/06/12/apple-ebook-jobs-smoking-gun/
Edited by Gatorguy - 6/12/13 at 8:34am
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