or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Mobile payments growing, no thanks to NFC or Google Wallet
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mobile payments growing, no thanks to NFC or Google Wallet

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
Mobile payment transactions are on pace to hit $235.4 billion in 2013, though mostly through money transfers, as NFC payments and services like Google Wallet have failed to gain much traction.

Wallet


Gartner on Tuesday published its latest forecast on worldwide mobile payment transaction values, calling for this year to see a 44 percent increase from the $163.1 billion in mobile payments made in 2012. Money transfers alone are projected to account for about 71 percent of total transaction value in 2013.

But near-field communication e-wallet transactions are only forecast to account for 2 percent of total mobile transaction value in 2013. That's because high-profile NFC services like Google Wallet and Isis aren't catching on with consumers, Gartner said.

In fact, the research firm has reduced projected NFC transaction value by 40 percent for its forecast period, which runs through 2017. By then, Gartner believes that NFC payments will still only account for 5 percent of total mobile transaction value.

Rumors of Apple adopting NFC technology in the iPhone have persisted for years, but Apple has instead chosen to avoid wireless "tap to pay" thus far. Security concerns associated with NFC have frequently been cited as a reason for Apple's lack of support.

Instead, Apple last year introduced Passbook, a new feature in iOS 6 that collects store cards, coupons, boarding passes, and event tickets. Some industry watchers have speculated that Passbook sets the stage for Apple to introduce e-wallet functionality to the iPhone, but the company has yet to do so.

Passbook


While NFC remains a niche, money transfers are expected to remain the predominant use for mobile transactions, remaining at 69 percent of total value in 2017. Most growth has come from money transfers, Gartner said, as users have begun to transact much more frequently, at lower values, due to wider availability of services. Mobile transfer services also frequently see lower transaction costs than traditional banks.

The forecast calls for merchandise purchases to account for 21 percent of total mobile transaction value in 2013. Growth in that segment has been stifled, Gartner believes, because "the buying experience on mobile devices has yet to be optimized."

An expected large growth segment in 2013 is mobile bill payment, which the forecast suggests could grow 44 percent this year. The firm noted that more consumers in developed markets are performing bill payments via mobile banking services, and bill payments will grow to account for 5 percent of total mobile payment value in 2017.

"We expect global mobile transaction volume and value to average 35 percent annual growth between 2012 and 2017, and we are forecasting a market worth $721 billion with more than 450 million users by 2017," said Sandy Shen, research director at Gartner. "Nevertheless, we have lowered the forecast of total transaction value for the forecast period due to lower-than-expected growth in 2012, especially in North America and Africa."
post #2 of 39
Of course it hasn't taken off. They've done nothing to actually create a viable infrastructure to support it. Putting the HW in a Nexus phone then trumpeting 'First!" does not a viable system make. Later on they actually gave Google Wallet users $10 just to try it. Did they think that was really going to make it work?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #3 of 39
No mention of Monitise? http://www.monitise.com/
post #4 of 39
It's already know everything else would fail because Apple had yet to launch such a payment system for these copycats to copy!!! Once Apple launch one everyone else will start their copy machine, especially you know who, and when they are sued they say its FRAND they have the right to use!
iMac i7
Reply
iMac i7
Reply
post #5 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Of course it hasn't taken off. They've done nothing to actually create a viable infrastructure to support it. Putting the HW in a Nexus phone then trumpeting 'First!" does not a viable system make. Later on they actually gave Google Wallet users $10 just to try it. Did they think that was really going to make it work?

Since you can use Google Wallet anywhere you can use PayPass (in the US), that's a pretty sizable/viable infrastructure (McDonalds, CVS, Home Depot, Rite Aid, Chevron, BP, PETCO, etc.).

The problem is WHY would a consumer want to go that route when they already have their credit card in their wallet/purse? Also, why would I want Google to see my buying habits when it's already bad enough that the bank watches everything I do.
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiced View Post

It's already know everything else would fail because Apple had yet to launch such a payment system for these copycats to copy!!! Once Apple launch one everyone else will start their copy machine, especially you know who, and when they are sued they say its FRAND they have the right to use!

Excuse me? Google Wallet already works on Samsung phones, so exactly what is it that Samsung or Google will copy from Apple when Apple launches "such a payment system for these copycats to copy"? Wouldn't Apple be copying Google in this case?
post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

Excuse me? Google Wallet already works on Samsung phones, so exactly what is it that Samsung or Google will copy from Apple when Apple launches "such a payment system for these copycats to copy"? Wouldn't Apple be copying Google in this case?

I think he wants to say others will copy what Apple reinvents .
post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover View Post

I think he wants to say others will copy what Apple reinvents .

If Apple do their usual legwork in actually making something that people find useful, no doubt others will copy.
post #9 of 39
When the article refers to "money transfers", they don't really explain what this includes. What services/companies fall in that category?
post #10 of 39

Sorry, what is NFC?

post #11 of 39
I pay for my stuff with a wad of Georges, Lincolns, Hamiltons, Jacksons, and Benjamins. I know exactly how much I spend and no one (not Google, Apple, the bank, or government) except the merchant and me know how I spend it.
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Sorry, what is NFC?

i learned in a high school writing class that when using acronyms, you expand them upon first use and then use the acronym in the remainder of the piece.

so that sentence should have been "... as near field communication (NFC) payments and services ...".

a quick net search shows that what i learned so long ago is still applicable today.

but this is appleinsider, a blog, so don't expect anything even approaching professional writing.
post #13 of 39

Interesting how this article seems to dismiss NFC just because Apple is not using it.  But 2 stories below this one on the AI homepage, there is an article "Apple awarded patent for NFC-based cross-platform data transfer solution".  Why would Apple waste time and money working on things that they think people will never use?

post #14 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Sorry, what is NFC?

That is exactly why it's failing to gain traction...

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #15 of 39
I love using the Starbucks card within Apple's Passbook feature. It's a prepaid virtual card. I load up $100 and it knows when I'm near a Starbucks and creates a banner to tap. All I do to pay is hold up the barcode to be read from the reader near the cash register.

I give up privacy for bonuses like free Apps and food and drinks. Plus it's quick and easy. Reloading the 'card' is only a few taps away as well, something I've found drains my bank account quickly.

In the future, I suspect I will not even be required to turn on my iPhone, hold it up to the reader, etc.
post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i learned in a high school writing class that when using acronyms, you expand them upon first use and then use the acronym in the remainder of the piece.

You should have started that off with IIRC. 1biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

That is exactly why it's failing to gain traction...

This is one area Google actually did well by branding it Google Wallet. Without knowing any specifics the average user will have an idea what it may do.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


That is exactly why it's failing to gain traction...
 

No, the reason it's failing to gain traction is that none of the carriers will let you use it. Most Android phones on the market today are technically capable of using Google Wallet, but unless you have a Nexus, you can't install the software unless you root your phone. When the iPhone 5S comes out with NFC, it will probably require a jailbreak to install it there too.

 

The reason they're doing this is because AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile are working together on their own mobile payment system, called ISIS, and thus Google Wallet is a competitor, so they block it. That's fine, except that ISIS isn't ready yet, hasn't been for a really long time, and progress is amazingly slow — the last news on that front was back in October where they launched trial markets in Austin and Salt Lake City, which are still the only two markets where ISIS exists, and there hasn't been a peep since. Meanwhile, Google Wallet is available at many national store chains all over the US, and it's even on Coca-Cola vending machines and everything — but you can't use it, because the $@#% carriers block it.

 

I think Sprint might be an exception, but anyone who's on any of the other three carriers and doesn't have a Nexus device (which is quite a large majority of Americans) isn't able to use Google Wallet even if they wanted to, so of course it hasn't been catching on. Gee, I wonder why. That's a mystery all right.

post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Interesting how this article seems to dismiss NFC just because Apple is not using it.

You are drawing conclusions not supported by the facts. The article says that NFC hasn't gained traction as a method of payment, based on Gartner's study, then goes on to say Apple doesn't support it. How did you get from that to "this article seems to dismiss NFC just because Apple is not using it"? Where in this entire article does it make a CAUSAL LINK between Apple not using NFC and NFC's low adoption? This article doesn't say anything of the sort. And where in the article does it "dismiss NFC"? Unless you interpret Gartner's numbers as "dismissing NFC." Perhaps you can enlighten us with a different set of statistics regarding NFC payment use.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I love using the Starbucks card within Apple's Passbook feature. It's a prepaid virtual card. I load up $100 and it knows when I'm near a Starbucks and creates a banner to tap. All I do to pay is hold up the barcode to be read from the reader near the cash register.

I give up privacy for bonuses like free Apps and food and drinks. Plus it's quick and easy. Reloading the 'card' is only a few taps away as well, something I've found drains my bank account quickly.

In the future, I suspect I will not even be required to turn on my iPhone, hold it up to the reader, etc.

1) I use this daily. I may skip a day here or there but I'm certainly over 300 times a year. It really is simple and it updates with the new balance almost instantly, something that didn't happen when the Starbuck's Passbook pass was first released.

My only complaints with using this pass are that I 1) can't adjust the geofence (say I happen to work or live really close to an Sbux), 2) or set times for it not register (like if I'm driving by the store at midnight), or 3) have it stop showing up for a set duration after I've used it or dismissed it (something that is slightly annoying if I'm sitting in Sbux studying).

2) I still want some sort of authentication, especially with NFC. I'd like it to work like AirDrop. If you don't click on it Finder no other device can see you. If we're using NFC it needs to be controlled at that level. If there is a biometric in, say, the Home button that you can enable in lieu of a passcode or direct app access that may work, too, but the window would have to be very short or close up as soon as the transaction is complete so that NFC is then completely shut off.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #20 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


You are drawing conclusions not supported by the facts. The article says that NFC hasn't gained traction as a method of payment, based on Gartner's study, then goes on to say Apple doesn't support it. How did you get from that to "this article seems to dismiss NFC just because Apple is not using it"? Where in this entire article does it make a CAUSAL LINK between Apple not using NFC and NFC's low adoption? This article doesn't say anything of the sort. And where in the article does it "dismiss NFC"? Unless you interpret Gartner's numbers as "dismissing NFC." Perhaps you can enlighten us with a different set of statistics regarding NFC payment use.

It doesn't take a Mensa scholar to figure out how not being available to over 40% of the US market could hinder a technology's adoption. However, the larger problem is the carriers. Even once the iPhone has NFC, as it probably will soon, anyone using AT&T, Verizon, or T-Mobile (i.e. 73.9% of the market) will have to jailbreak in order to use it.


Edited by Durandal1707 - 6/4/13 at 10:50am
post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw View Post

I love using the Starbucks card within Apple's Passbook feature. It's a prepaid virtual card. I load up $100 and it knows when I'm near a Starbucks and creates a banner to tap. All I do to pay is hold up the barcode to be read from the reader near the cash register.

Good grief!  You get a push notification every time there's an opportunity to buy something?  I'd be constantly distracted by that and never get anything else done in life!  The constant "app update" notifications are annoying enough as it is--why can't they be dismissed and sent away?  Apple really goofed up with that.

post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

It doesn't take a Mensa scholar to figure out how not being available to almost 40% of the US market could hinder a technology's adoption. However, the larger problem is the carriers. Even once the iPhone has NFC, as it probably will soon, anyone using any carrier other than Sprint will have to jailbreak in order to use it.

1) Mensa scholar? You mean Rhodes scholar?

2) Apple not supporting something that is used on the most popular smartphone in the US with the highest satisfaction rating and mindshare will put a damper on adoption, but you state "just because" with an erroneous cause and effect association. There are lots of things Apple has supported that has failed and lots of things Apple hasn't supported that became successes.

3) If and when Apple finally supports any NFC-like system it will likely mean it will be a success because of Apple's track record of being able to take multiple technologies and wrap them into a single unified system that people enjoy using. In no way does it mean they will be successful, but their track record on this is better than most.

4) There is absolutely no history of Apple including HW that will have absolutely no use to the user unless they jailbreak it first. If they add and market NFC they will also SW foundation to go along with it, and likely have deals with various vendors to actually make it useful from day one. The latter would seem to be the harder component to achieve.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Good grief!  You get a push notification every time there's an opportunity to buy something?  I'd be constantly distracted by that and never get anything else done in life!  The constant "app update" notifications are annoying enough as it is--why can't they be dismissed and sent away?  Apple really goofed up with that.

I don't get any any buying opportunity updates on mine. Just the Passbook pass on the lock screen when I'm near, and the rolling notification at the top of the home screen or app screen when the balance updates which is near instantaneous. I have to access the actual Starbucks app to see how many stars I need before my free drink and any specials that have come through.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #24 of 39
.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Mensa scholar? You mean Rhodes scholar?

 

A quick Google search suggests that Mensa gives out scholarships, so it's good enough. I'm sure you got the gist of what I meant. Is this really necessary?

 

2) Apple not supporting something that is used on the most popular smartphone in the US with the highest satisfaction rating and mindshare will put a damper on adoption, but you state "just because" with an erroneous cause and effect association. There are lots of things Apple has supported that has failed and lots of things Apple hasn't supported that became successes.

 

Yes, which is why I said that Apple isn't the big problem here; the major problem is that the carriers block it. The only people that can use Google Wallet right now are the intersection of the 13.1% that use Sprint and the 51.7% that use Android, which comes out to about 6.8% of the US population, plus whatever the Nexus's market-share is, which I imagine isn't large. It's pretty unrealistic to expect wide success when you can't sell to over 90% of the country.

 

3) If and when Apple finally supports any NFC-like system it will likely mean it will be a success because of Apple's track record of being able to take multiple technologies and wrap them into a single unified system that people enjoy using. In no way does it mean they will be successful, but their track record on this is better than most.

 

Based on the carriers' current track record, even if Apple comes out with their own solution, all the carriers save Sprint will block it from their networks for competing with their stupid ISIS thing. Sure, maybe Apple will have enough clout to send them all the middle finger and put their own (or just allow Google Wallet) anyway. Maybe they won't. It's all empty speculation at this point.

 

4) There is absolutely no history of Apple including HW that will have absolutely no use to the user unless they jailbreak it first. If they add and market NFC they will also SW foundation to go along with it, and likely have deals with various vendors to actually make it useful from day one. The latter would seem to be the harder component to achieve.

Well, the HW has other uses besides mobile payments, which they may want to get in on — being able to easily send files to other people is kind of fun. There do seem to be a lot of rumors toward the 5S having NFC on it, and of course Apple's not going to want to be left behind if this ends up becoming the next big thing.

 

BTW, unrelated note. Is there any way to break up a block quote for inline replies on this site without going into the HTML source editor? And if not, why is that?

post #26 of 39

Okay, if people are not using NFC payment or Google e-wallet to do mobile payment how are mobile payment hitting $235.4B in 2013, what mobile system are people using. The article said money transfer but those are not mobile payments. Unless they assuming a CC transaction is a money transfer and it is mobile because you carry a credit card on your person, well most people carry cash and checks too are those also included?

post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

Based on the carriers' current track record, even if Apple comes out with their own solution, all the carriers save Sprint will block it from their networks for competing with their stupid ISIS thing. Sure, maybe Apple will have enough clout to send them all the middle finger and put their own (or just allow Google Wallet) anyway. Maybe they won't. It's all empty speculation at this point.

I don't see that as a problem. The NFC is on the device and the carrier won't have access to it. They didn't in 2007 and won't in 2013+. All transactions that need to verify with a server will use IPSec standards. The carriers surely don't like iMessage killing their SMS but they can't do anything about it.
Quote:
BTW, unrelated note. Is there any way to break up a block quote for inline replies on this site without going into the HTML source editor? And if not, why is that?

I use the BB Code editor with a TextExpander shortcut that will add {/quote} [I[plus couple Returns[/I] {quote} so I can easily break up a comment.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't see that as a problem. The NFC is on the device and the carrier won't have access to it. They didn't in 2007 and won't in 2013+. All transactions that need to verify with a server will use IPSec standards. The carriers surely don't like iMessage killing their SMS but they can't do anything about it.

 

Tell that to Verizon. They've blocked it in 2011:

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404577081610232043208.html

 

2012:

 

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/12/10/verizon-responds-to-fcc-complaint-over-blocking-of-google-wallet-says-google-needs-to-change-the-app/

 

2013:

 

http://phandroid.com/2013/04/30/verizon-blocking-google-wallet/

 

This exists on Apple's side of the fence too. Remember the FaceTime introduction? The phone was technologically capable of using FaceTime over the cellular network, and many people used it that way with jailbroken phones, but out of the box it was Wi-Fi only, because AT&T didn't like it.

 

I use the BB Code editor with a TextExpander shortcut that will add {/quote} [I[plus couple Returns[/I] {quote} so I can easily break up a comment.

 

That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick </html> in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

This exists on Apple's side of the fence too. Remember the FaceTime introduction? The phone was technologically capable of using FaceTime over the cellular network, and many people used it that way with jailbroken phones, but out of the box it was Wi-Fi only, because AT&T didn't like it.

Ugh! That is not the same thing.
Quote:
That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

Tell that to Verizon. They've blocked it in 2011:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204770404577081610232043208.html

That would be great. Is the BB Code editor something I can enable in the site preferences somewhere? All I get right now is a somewhat lame WYSIWYG editor that, as usual, doesn't give nearly the amount of control I'd prefer, and — oddly — a "Source" button that gives me access to the raw HTML source of my post. I wonder if I'd be able to stick in there and automatically get the last word on any discussion?

I had trouble finding it too. It's in the Preferences menu to the right under "Post a Reply". Certainly not the first place I would have expected to find it.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Ugh! That is not the same thing.
And the reason why is because... ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

:big image:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I had trouble finding it too. It's in the Preferences menu to the right under "Post a Reply". Certainly not the first place I would have expected to find it.
Ah, so much better! Thanks a lot. 1smile.gif
post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

Sorry, what is NFC?

http://bit.ly/VfA3uO

post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

And the reason why is because... ?

I'll make this as brief as possible because I don't want to get into the finer details of the technologies, logistics and politics… and it's off topic. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Politics: I don't recall any carrier blocking FaceTime packets as they traversed the network which is why it worked with JBen devices. It was probably AT&T that was able to persuade Apple not to include it.

Logistics: It's one thing to have a handful of people using a service and another to have millions of people accessing that same service. Perhaps AT&T leveraged their contract to get Apple not to include it, or perhaps they paid them, or perhaps they simply convinced Apple that dozens of millions using FT as a novelty over their network the first week would have been too much strain.

Technologies: VoIP and VC use very similar protocols. The latter clearly has video options, but they all use the same protocols for setting up a call and then connect to each othe directly through other protocols. They also use QoS. Unlike a webpage where items can be asked for again or be received out of order any VoIP or video needs to be real time. This means it uses UDP not TCP and on a proper network get priority over most or all other traffic to ensure that the data arrives as quickly as possible. This is huge business for which I'm intimately aware. The results of FT over '3G' may have been acceptable to jawbreakers just as the 8fps video of the original iPhone from those that had JBen their phones gave them a soapbox for which to say that video is possible on the iPhone. I think FT over '3G' fared much better than that old example, but we aren't talking about millions with an iPhone 4. Remember what happened to iCloud and Siri that first weekend?

All these need to be considered before hand, not afterwards. Apple can't easily say 'we told you so… we did it anyway". It's still their problem. Jobs mentioned that they need to get with the carriers, that is where the ethnology part comes into play. There traditionally hasn't been QoS on IP because the voice calls from the towers hadn't been IP. I think most carriers likely had this in place or could have had this in place with a modicum of effort and expense, but that's just the configuration and says nothing for millions of devices trying out a new service all within a very short time frame. Do you remember the complaints about AT&T at SXSW or CES?

Edited by SolipsismX - 6/4/13 at 12:08pm

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Politics: I don't recall any carrier blocking FaceTime packets as they traversed the network which is why it worked with JBen devices. It was probably AT&T that was able to persuade Apple not to include it.
I'm not talking about blocking packets as they traversed the network. What they have been doing is blocking the manufacturers from putting it on their phones, or, in other words, "persuading" them not to include it, and also setting up software blocks to prevent users from installing it themselves. Google Wallet works just fine on rooted (e.g. the Android equivalent of jailbroken) Android phones. It's just that most users don't root their phones.
Quote:
Logistics: It's one thing to have a handful of people using a service and another to have millions of people accessing that same service. Perhaps AT&T leveraged their contract to get Apple not to include it, or perhaps they paid them, or perhaps they simply convinced Apple that dozens of millions using FT as a novelty over their network the first week would have been too much strain.
Also not a difference. Perhaps Verizon et al. leveraged their contracts to get the HW makers to block GW from their phones. In fact, they almost certainly did. They certainly did try to convince makers that it was harmful (although, for some reason, the almost identical ISIS isn't, of course). Their rationale was in one of the links I posted.
Quote:
Technologies: VoIP and VC use very similar protocols. The latter clearly has video options, but they all use the same protocols for setting up a call and then connect to each othe directly through other protocols. They also use QoS. Unlike a webpage where items can be asked for again or be received out of order any VoIP or video needs to be real time. This means it uses UDP not TCP and on a proper network get priority over most or all other traffic to ensure that the data arrives as quickly as possible. This is huge business for which I'm intimately aware. The results of FT over '3G' may have been acceptable to jawbreakers just as the 8fps video of the original iPhone from those that had JBen their phones gave them a soapbox for which to say that video is possible on the iPhone. I think FT over '3G' fared much better than that old example, but we aren't talking about millions with an iPhone 4. Remember what happened to iCloud and Siri that first weekend?
I saw the videos of FaceTime going over 3G. I used to get more lag than that with iChat over DSL back in the day, but it didn't keep Apple from releasing that. Technology is just an excuse — the reason it didn't go on the iPhone is because AT&T didn't want to have to deal with the extra network usage. Regardless, it's the same argument Verizon's using now — they're claiming that it's harmful for some reason, because it uses the phone's secure element, and thus they won't allow it.
Edited by Durandal1707 - 6/4/13 at 12:25pm
post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durandal1707 View Post

I saw the videos of FaceTime going over 3G. I used to get more lag than that with iChat over DSL back in the day, but it didn't keep Apple from releasing that.

I can set up a flawless VoIP network with my 10 year old Cisco router in my home lab so I guess that means that node can support an entire office building? 1rolleyes.gif

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #36 of 39
We can argue all day about the relative merits of AT&T's decision to keep Apple from allowing 3G FaceTime on the iPhone and Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mo's decision to keep vendors from allowing Google Wallet on their phones, but that's not really going to result in a convincing argument that one is somehow fundamentally different from the other.
Edited by Durandal1707 - 6/4/13 at 12:38pm
post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post


i learned in a high school writing class that when using acronyms, you expand them upon first use and then use the acronym in the remainder of the piece.

so that sentence should have been "... as near field communication (NFC) payments and services ...".

a quick net search shows that what i learned so long ago is still applicable today.

but this is appleinsider, a blog, so don't expect anything even approaching professional writing.

 

In high school, did you learn the use of capitalization? Just kidding ... kind of.

 

There are exceptions to every rule. If an acronym is expected to be understood by the audience, there is no need to expand it upon first use or anywhere else. For example, I could just write "WTF" instead of "What the ****." (Note the placement of the period; it should always be inside the quotation mark. That too hasn't changed since high school.)

post #38 of 39

NFC may not be taking off in mobile payment. But it is catching on in other applications. If this trend continues, "other" tablets may ride the coattails of those applications if Apple doesn't add it to the iPads.

post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

In high school, did you learn the use of capitalization? Just kidding ... kind of.

There are exceptions to every rule. If an acronym is expected to be understood by the audience, there is no need to expand it upon first use or anywhere else. For example, I could just write "WTF" instead of "What the ****." (Note the placement of the period; it should always be inside the quotation mark. That too hasn't changed since high school.)

i did learn about that capitalization thingy. but it was in grade school if i remember correctly, which i probably don't. writing in (almost) all lower case is my personal stye, and i would expect to be held to a different and lesser standard since i'm not trying to pass myself off as a professional and earn money from my writing, which is precisely what appleinsider *is* trying to do.

at best, appleinsider is inconsistent. for example, in a different blog entry they lead with "Apple has started installing banners for next week's World Wide Developer Conference" ... as most people reading here know what WWDC is, and using your exceptions, why didn't they just use the acronym? since in yet a different blog entry they lead with "Ahead of a possible "iRadio" debut at WWDC".

i think the jury is still out (and will probably remain out) on the period inside/outside the quotation mark ... not sure of your location, but it seems to be mostly americans who are hung up on it being inside.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Mobile payments growing, no thanks to NFC or Google Wallet