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Apple files patent for digital wallet service that pays users to view advertisements

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
An interesting Apple patent application discovered on Thursday describes a hybrid digital wallet and billing service that issues credits and tokens to users, which can then be exchanged for real world goods or services like a cellular phone bill.

Token
Source: USPTO


The invention, published by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, carries the innocuous title "Method and system for managing credits via a mobile device," but is really a wide-ranging virtual currency solution that covers cell bill payments, tangible goods purchases, peer-to-peer money transfer, and more.

As seen in the patent's abstract, a so-called "digital wallet" is central to the system's functionality, with credits having monetary value being delivered and stored on a mobile device. These credits are tied to an account, or billing system, that keeps track of how the virtual currency is being used.

The patent discusses a bill payment system in which credits can be added to an account on a pre- or post-paid schedule, with the total being depleted over time based on usage for the former, or accounted for after a set time period in the latter.

In one embodiment, the billing system measures and compares usage of the service with a free or subsidized balance allotted to each user. Interestingly, the language notes that instead of sending invoices for said services to the user, this method allows for advertisers to be billed directly.

From the patent description:

Other techniques to provide subsidized or free telephone services to the users are also envisioned. For subsidized telephone services, the users may be responsible for a portion of their usage and thus they would be interested in eliminating unnecessary use of such telephone services.


Since the billing system is coupled to the communication network on which a credit carrying mobile device is operating, it can monitor usage patterns in real time. Thus, as a branch of this system, advertisements can be delivered to a plurality of mobile devices via messaging service or other wireless data service.

Token


In another embodiment, "tokens" are distributed to users from various providers, such as an advertiser, which can then be used to offset a portion of a wireless service bill. Issuers can also send vouchers, coupons and the like via a generated code that is transferred through the digital wallet service server and/or the billing system.

While the tokens and coupons may remain in the digital domain when applied to cell bills, the code generation allows users to purchase real world items via point of sale terminals. Much like the current implementation of Apple's Passbook, these coupons can be stored on a mobile device to be traded for goods at a later date. In addition, the invention allows for lines of credit to be created, as well as a provision for connecting with bank accounts.

Finally, one embodiment allows for the token provider to be another subscriber. Friends or family can text or otherwise send tokens to a user's mobile device or, alternatively, the user may request credit from the provider.

Such a solution would be a boon for cellular carriers in developing nations, where subscribers are keen to buy smartphones like Apple's iPhone, but may not be able to afford the device or necessary data service. Apple is already making aggressive pricing moves in such countries, and recently found success in India as sales jumped 400 percent over a four month period.

Also interesting is the origin of Thursday's patent application, which was first filed for in Great Britain in 2008 before being terminated and reassigned to Apple. As listed on the USPTO's website, the inventors, Janne Aaltonen and Sami Saru, are both tied to a Finnish IP management and creation company called CVON Innovations. Not much is known about the firm, though a quick search shows it has been active in since 2008. Apple has been assigned at least one other patent from CVON regarding an advertisement delivery system for mobile devices.
post #2 of 35
The ONE thing I really loved about Apple was NO F-ING ADS.
Apple was the one company that didn't bombard their users with useless ads 24/7.

No they seem to plan ads everywhere (iRadio as well), this sucks so bad.
post #3 of 35
This looks like a beginning shift in thought. This reeks so much of cheap commercialism. This isn't your father's Apple.
post #4 of 35

Are you both myopic in thought? How in the hell do you think the Apple iTV and Service Provider contracts will ever arrive without Advertisements?

post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

The ONE thing I really loved about Apple was NO F-ING ADS.
Apple was the one company that didn't bombard their users with useless ads 24/7.

No they seem to plan ads everywhere (iRadio as well), this sucks so bad.

 

They could be doing what I like to call "patent trapping". If they are, they would just be patenting in and around their competitors core business and products to make their competitors business expansion more difficult. It doesn't mean Apple is actually going to do this in their products.

 

EDIT: After reviewing the details and assignment comments.... It looks more like Apple is buy digital wallet IP from third parties. Looks like they are learning after all.


Edited by Phone-UI-Guy - 6/6/13 at 4:25am
post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Are you both myopic in thought? How in the hell do you think the Apple iTV and Service Provider contracts will ever arrive without Advertisements?

If Apple iTV moves beyond vaporware those ads may be, and IMO likely will be served by Apple not the broadcasters. Same with iRadio. They'll almost certainly be targeted to the individual based on their search. location, travel or other personal data. I think that's going to garner some complaints, with a dose of teasing from "the other side". Apple hasn't generally been viewed as a data-mining company collecting info from it's users to better serve the advertisers (altho they do). Essentially Apple would be clearly holding you out to be the product to steal a term sometimes thrown at Google. it will be even more apparent if the Apple ad exchange rumors turn out to be accurate.
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-iad-and-iradio-2013-6

I think that's what's going to bother some Apple users who have been told repeatedly and vociferously that collecting data on users and serving targeted ads as Google does is "evil" and invasive and something Apple would never do. Ever. There's going to have to be an effort to change the perception that more pertinent advertising and product suggestions based on your personal interests just isn't acceptable.
Edited by Gatorguy - 6/6/13 at 4:59am
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post #7 of 35
This patent has little to do with advertising. Apple's patent creates a currency managed by mobile devices. My guess is also that Apple will take a cut of transactions. First, supporting this infrastructure costs money and they will want to make a profit and invest. Second, if such systems take hold, look for enhancements that will be needed to conform to each country's tax system; it is likely that a VAT will be applied and remitted to governments based on the value of each transaction.
post #8 of 35
Yay! Apple patents the over-the-air network TV model. We had always paid for content by watching ads.

Then cable and premium channels came along and made us pay for content, and watch ads!
post #9 of 35
Advertising is only bad were the advert is not applicable, not desireable and repeatedly shown.

The right advert in front of the right person at the right time is an incredibly useful service. It's something google actually does fairly well.

The trick will be if Apple 'thinks different' about advertising and puts the user in control of what adverts they are exposed to.
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

This patent has little to do with advertising. Apple's patent creates a currency managed by mobile devices. My guess is also that Apple will take a cut of transactions. First, supporting this infrastructure costs money and they will want to make a profit and invest. Second, if such systems take hold, look for enhancements that will be needed to conform to each country's tax system; it is likely that a VAT will be applied and remitted to governments based on the value of each transaction.

I agree with most of the above.

But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.

Consider Today:

You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.

You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.

Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.


Consider Tomorrow:

You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.

Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...

In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.



This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...

What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...

For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.

And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…


As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.

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post #11 of 35

Hope they ditch the credits/tokens idea and just stick with $/£/etc value.  Points and virtual currencies are a nuisance.

 

I don't like unit credits much either, I've had a video credit on iTunes for ages now that I received as a refund for a dud TV episode that was included in a series pass. When am I ever going to use that?  Who buys individual TV episodes?  I only ever buy seasons.

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post #12 of 35
AppleTv Hardware & Software + Monetary System + Advertising Delivery/iAd = The Distribution system to the home user that Steve hinted about before he passed.

Extremely targeted ad/links that you choose to watch. Then that watching earns credits towards offsetting the cost of the content you choose to watch and the throughput data costs that deliver the content to you. Maybe the hardware costs too!

Its the "digital age's" version of original commercial TV. Let the "sponsor" pay for the creative content. The difference is that then advertising was "forced" upon us, where now we can choose, those choices can be logged and monetized, and we get real value as that system offsets our costs. ...and advertisers get real value.

So THAT, IMHO will be the new Apple TV...

Steve
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Edited by stevemost - 6/6/13 at 7:46am
post #13 of 35
I'd actually prefer it if they became their own Bitcoin exchange. The thing Bitcoin still lacks is the backing of a major bank or credit card company to simplify the dollars for BTC exchange process and Apple would be the perfect company to help herald in a new era of digital money. An iPhone or some other "i" device would be more trustworthy than all of the other hardware wallets that are currently being developed.

People could use their phones as easily and anonymously as paying cash and even get paid in cash for things like mowing lawns or cleaning the house (allowances).

C'mon, Apple help put the central banking system out of commission and we're golden!
Edited by SpamSandwich - 6/6/13 at 7:27am

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post #14 of 35
Originally Posted by japm View Post
The ONE thing I really loved about Apple was NO F-ING ADS.
Apple was the one company that didn't bombard their users with useless ads 24/7.

No they seem to plan ads everywhere (iRadio as well), this sucks so bad.

 

False concern out the wazoo… 

 

Apple owns many draconian patents that, if implemented, would make for absolutely horrible experiences, bombarding people with ads or preventing them from viewing their content.

 

Thing is, they're never going to use them. Apple owns them so that no one else can do it, either.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


If Apple iTV moves beyond vaporware ...

 

The Apple iTV is not vaporware, it's a rumor / speculation.

 

Vaporware are announced products that have yet to materialize in any other form other than concept.

 

 

Just a nitpick. Sorry.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

False concern out the wazoo… 

Apple owns many draconian patents that, if implemented, would make for absolutely horrible experiences, bombarding people with ads or preventing them from viewing their content.

Thing is, they're never going to use them. Apple owns them so that no one else can do it, either.

Your scathing post complaining about Apple going after advertising dollars by marketing their users when iRadio becomes official should be epic.1wink.gif
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post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Your scathing post complaining about Apple going after advertising dollars by marketing their users when iRadio becomes official should be epic.1wink.gif

In current iterations there is no additional benefit to users beyond the presumably free (ad supported) service. Users actually getting "paid" to listen to or watch ads would be a paradigm shift.

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post #18 of 35
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
The Apple iTV is not vaporware, it's a rumor / speculation.

 

Vaporware are announced products that have yet to materialize in any other form other than concept.

 

Just a nitpick. Sorry.

 

Don't apologize. He did it on purpose. It was Gatorguy, after all.


Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
Your scathing post complaining about Apple going after advertising dollars by marketing their users when iRadio becomes official should be epic.1wink.gif

 

Oh, I certainly believe there will be audio ads if they announce a radio service. The alternative is paying for radio, which people won't want to do. Has XM really taken off at all? The difference will be in the way said ads are handled.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #19 of 35
I'm amazed that Apple was even granted a patent on this truthfully...

however, IMO it would be great for:
1) parents to purchase a certain amount of tokens for their kids, rather than dealing with the App Store returns and fiasco;
2) and perfect for purchasing credits/tokens in the rest of the world that doesn't have access to credit cards (even here in Germany, many people don't own one);
3) billing straight through a provider, and getting rid of the high cost of printing and maintaining gift/store cards.

Appears that Apple is quite serious about growing their customer base, because it just this type of plan/patent that would be most useful for the "Rest of the World™".
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post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don't apologize. He did it on purpose. It was Gatorguy, after all.

Oh, I certainly believe there will be audio ads if they announce a radio service. The alternative is paying for radio, which people won't want to do. Has XM really taken off at all? The difference will be in the way said ads are handled.

If you hadn't been so vocal about how evil it is to track users, collect data from them and serve you up as the product to advertisers I would have taken your post as a hint you weren't going to complain about Apple offering targeted ads if they do it.
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post #21 of 35
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post
If you hadn't been so vocal about how evil it is to track users, collect data from them and serve you up as the priduct to advertisers I would have taken your post as a hint you weren't going to complain about Apple offering targeted ads if they do it.

 

If my information is being used to target me ads, I'll complain about it. I'd prefer nothing of that sort occurring. 

 

In fact, the easiest thing to do is to NOT touch users' information, serve up ALL kinds of ads, and let the user manually decide whether they want to see said type of ads anymore by touching/clicking/whatever the ad itself (longer view time…) and selecting "No, I don't want to see tampon ads anymore" or "Yes, I'd like to see exclusively tampon ads" or "Nah, but show me health product stuff." or whatever. Build the "targeting" from willful, not stolen, information.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

The ONE thing I really loved about Apple was NO F-ING ADS.
Apple was the one company that didn't bombard their users with useless ads 24/7.

No they seem to plan ads everywhere (iRadio as well), this sucks so bad.

1. Apple patents a lot of stuff that they never use just license
2. Sounds like they have included a lot of non traditional ad uses. Like virtual gift cards.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I agree with most of the above.

But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.

Consider Today:

You go to iTunes and gift money to anyone you want and it's paid for by the credit card on file.

Only difference is that they are proposing a way to use it for outside things.

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post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'd actually prefer it if they became their own Bitcoin exchange. The thing Bitcoin still lacks is the backing of a major bank or credit card company to simplify the dollars for BTC exchange process and Apple would be the perfect company to help herald in a new era of digital money. An iPhone or some other "i" device would be more trustworthy than all of the other hardware wallets that are currently being developed.

People could use their phones as easily and anonymously as paying cash and even get paid in cash for things like mowing lawns or cleaning the house (allowances).

C'mon, Apple help put the central banking system out of commission and we're golden!


Sadly...

Only half in jest... consider the homeless guy who dumps the Square Card Reader on his iPad -- instead, to process all his currency transactions with "iTunes Dollars" specie 1hmm.gif

Food Stamps? There's an app for that...
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post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I agree with most of the above.

But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.

Consider Today:

You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.

You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.

Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.


Consider Tomorrow:

You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.

Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...

In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.



This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...

What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...

For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.

And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…


As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.

Sent from my iPad

That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system. 

 

The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it. 

post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I agree with most of the above.


But more than just a currency management system, it becomes a currency itself.

Consider Today:


You go to BestBuy or their online site and buy 3 iTunes gift cards for the kids -- paying with cash, credit or debit card.


You give or send the cards to the kids -- and they individually scratch and enter the code into their iTunes account.


Next month you pay the original credit card bill for the 3 gift cards with another set of transactions -- transfer money from savings to checking and online bill pay.


Consider Tomorrow:


You go online as above, and purchase "iTunes Dollars" for the total of the 3 original gift cards -- paying automatically with a charge (due in 30 days) to your iTunes account.


Separately, or as part of the original transaction, you distribute the gifts of "iTunes Dollars" directly to the kids individual iTunes accounts -- or through a combination of texts, emails, bumps, WiFi -- possibly scheduled through a calendar app. It's painless -- there is no exchange of physical cards, scratching and entering codes...


In 30 days, the original charge is due for payment in your iTunes account -- it can be paid by any iTunes Store credit you have in your account -- or charged to the credit card backing the account.




This example was just for buying and giving iTunes gift cards in the form of "iTunes Dollars"...


What if you could use these virtual dollars to buy other things... any things... food, clothing, gasoline, Disneyland passes...


For those who do not have a credit card backing their individual iTunes account, the account could be used as a virtual savings/checking/debit account -- possibly earning interest. It could be used to build credit history and establish a credit rating.


And the recipient of any of these "iTunes Dollars" could, in turn, regift them to friends and family…



As to collection and payment of taxes -- that is the responsibility of the seller of the goods -- not for the currency service.


Sent from my iPad
That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system. 

The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it. 


Again, I agree with most of this...

But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.

Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.


Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!

I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).

Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.
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post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Again, I agree with most of this...

But I don't see why the currency service would want to get involved in all the legal and regulatory [government] hassle of collecting, accounting for and paying taxes to a multitude of overlapping taxing agencies.

Recently, I bought two $100 iTunes Gift Cards from BestBuy Online -- the cards were on special for $80 -- a 20% discount. I paid for the cards with my Discover card which gives me an additional discount (CashBack Bonus) of 2 of the $160 charge and -- 1 month float, recourse, etc. Later we entered the cards into 2 iTunes accounts, then purchase apps, games, media etc. from the iTunes Store. My purchasing power was $200, I spent $156.80... a 21.6% discount.


Nowhere in any of these transactions was any tax charged!

I believe that the taxes are built into the price of the content sold on the iTunes Store -- and the party responsible for paying those taxes is the one who owns/publishes the app. In most cases this is not Apple (only for Apple-owned content).

Therefore, Apple could conduct a similar service with "iTunes Dollars" specie and avoid the tax hassle on all but Apple owned/published content.

I don't know why you think that "But I don't see why ...." is relevant? If governments decide to decrease the complexity of the current tax system and replace it in part by VAT or something akin, then paying the VAT by the currency providers is what they will have to do. The hassle issue is a trivial implementation problem easily solvable by technology. The real complexity is in policy, valuation of tokens, contracts, UCC, and international law -- not that the thoroughly incompetent western democracies have the ability or desire to actually do the policy work. 

post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

I don't know why you think that "But I don't see why ...." is relevant? If governments decide to decrease the complexity of the current tax system and replace it in part by VAT or something akin, then paying the VAT by the currency providers is what they will have to do. The hassle issue is a trivial implementation problem easily solvable by technology. The real complexity is in policy, valuation of tokens, contracts, UCC, and international law -- not that the thoroughly incompetent western democracies have the ability or desire to actually do the policy work. 

It's because of taxation without representation and currency manipulation that happens under central banking systems that Bitcoin was developed. Friction-free digital currency.

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post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

That was my point that the transfer of tokens, etc will become a currency. No credit card or bank is required. Basically, it becomes a bartering system. 

The responsibility for taxes can be handled in some cases by the currency service. Tokens need to have a legal tender value for the transaction to be allowed and a percent is charged by the service based on that value. There is no reason why a VAT cannot be applied at that point, and the currency services pays it. 

A little more thought on this...

In 1968-1971 I worked and lived in ChicagoLand (work Des Plaines, Live Fox River Grove). They had no branch banking so we had an account in Des Plaines -- there was only the one bank location for that banking institution. Almost every civil and most personal transactions were conducted through Currency Exchanges... and for every transaction you paid a fee... pay your taxes, cash a check, pay a bill... you paid a fee. There were Currency Exchanges everywhere -- many just a small one-man office. It was very inconvenient and a bit expensive. But it was rumored to be a political reward granted in exchange for whatever... That was in the days before ATMs and eCommerrce, so I suspect that has changed.

Another similar form of the same thing is the "Foreign Exchange" services that you find in airports, train stations, etc. involved in International travel... Kind of a necessary evil!

I used to travel quite a bit and would use credit cards for most larger transactions. Our local bank in Saratoga, CA was the British Barkley's Bank. As a free service. they would provide foreign currencies for travel at the current exchange rate -- and accept any foreign currency upon return. This was fantastic -- I got convenience, fair value and avoided all the hassle experienced by my fellow travelers.

I think that something like iTunes specie could become the fair-value, always-accessable, convenient, hassle-free equivalent of an International Currency -- at least one accepted in places where anyone would want to go!
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 6/6/13 at 10:19am
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #30 of 35
I'm telling you, D.A.... Bitcoin through iTunes or "iWallet" is the way to go!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #31 of 35

I'm not a laboratory mouse.

 

I don't want to get a treat for going through the labyrinth.

post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

If my information is being used to target me ads, I'll complain about it. I'd prefer nothing of that sort occurring. 

 

In fact, the easiest thing to do is to NOT touch users' information, serve up ALL kinds of ads, and let the user manually decide whether they want to see said type of ads anymore by touching/clicking/whatever the ad itself (longer view time…) and selecting "No, I don't want to see tampon ads anymore" or "Yes, I'd like to see exclusively tampon ads" or "Nah, but show me health product stuff." or whatever. Build the "targeting" from willful, not stolen, information.

It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement.  Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children.  Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been.  Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching.  Same thing.  There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.

post #33 of 35
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post
It's not easier for anyone especially, not the advertiser, who is paying to get the ads placed and knows they don't benefit from wanton placement.  Kids' cereal makers sure don't want to spend money on ad use that shows up in homes without children.  Placing the ads specifically makes the space more valuable to the service, same as TV ads have always been.  Cheap airtime is when no one is watching, more expensive is when your target is watching.  Same thing.  There is hardly such a thing as non-targeted advertising any more.

 

Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Screw 'em. I'm the customer, and an individual citizen. I have rights, and they're not to be infringed. I'm not being unreasonable; that's why I said users should be able to manually decide what kind of ads they like to see. The advertisers will get their targeting without illegal or invasive procedures. 

But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content.  An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth.  If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control.  For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money.  The end user only represents a value figure for what they're offering to the advertiser.  The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads?  Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.

post #35 of 35
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post
But the whole point of ads is that you aren't choosing them like the rest of your content.

 

That's why consumers shouldn't have to deal with this crap.


An advertiser will spend money of a targeted ad that you have to sit through, which gives them their money's worth.  If the user could deny the ad it would lower the value the service could charge for the space, which the service won't choose so that the consumer can feel more in control. 


I'm not sure I get that, nor that I buy it. If nearly everyone doesn't want to see your ad, either stop making that ad, stop making that product, or go out of business. It's sort of how the system works, yeah?


For ALL of these services, from iRadio to youtube to Facebook, the end user is not where they're making their money.  

 

That's why Apple tends not to be evil in that way.


The end user's desires as far as putting up with ads?  Not on Apple's radar I'm sure, being the focused money making machine they are.

 

You do realize that Apple explicitly doesn't do ads in their products because they explicitly don't want people to have to see ads, right? You do realize that Apple isn't Google or Facebook and doesn't whore out users in this way, right?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
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