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Apple bug report hints developers may receive near-final build of OS X 10.9 at WWDC

post #1 of 75
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A curious filing in Apple's bug reporting system includes a build number that suggests pre-release testing on OS X 10.9 has been much more extensive than with last year's OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion.

OS X


The details come from a Webkit bug report submitted through Apple's own Radar system, first noticed by AppleInsider reader Tom. The filing references an operating system build number of 13A451, with the first three characters suggesting the software is OS X 10.9, and the latest three digits referring to the internal build number.

Those last three digits ??"451" ? imply that Apple's number of private test builds of OS X 10.9 have achieved a relatively high amount for an upcoming operating system.

Builds


For example, the Golden Master, or final release build, of last year's OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion was declared after only 269 builds. And the Golden Master of 10.6 Snow Leopard, another "minor" OS X update, was build "432."

Meanwhile, "major" OS X releases saw higher build numbers. In 2007, OS X 10.5 Leopard reached "581" before it achieved GM status, while in 2011 the GM of OS X 10.7 was "511."The alleged OS X 10.9 build number suggests the number of test builds is high for a still-unannounced Mac operating system.

The possibility that OS X 10.9 may have already achieved build "451" as of May 8 ? more than a month before the operating system's anticipated unveiling at Apple's annual Worldwide Developers Conference ? could forecast a range of possibilities:
  • The purported build number could indicate that the software is nearing a final release, even before it has been unveiled to third-party developers.
  • It would reveal that Apple has been at work ? and compiling more builds ? with OS X 10.9 than Mac OS X 10.8.
  • It could mean that one of the most critical components of OS X is seeing a major overhauled in 10.9, which would presumably explain the need to run through more builds than usual ahead of its announcement.

Traffic
Recent traffic from OS X 10.9 in AppleInsider's logs.


One developer who spoke with AppleInsider said the expectation among the development community is that OS X 10.9 will not be a major overhaul of the operating system. If that's the case, the fact that a pre-release build number appears far along could mean the next Mac operating system is relatively close to release.

It's possible that developers may receive a near-final copy of OS X 10.9 at next week's WWDC. That would mean a much shorter testing period than usual before the release of the Golden Master build.

For example, OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion was unveiled on Feb. 16 of 2012 before an eventual release on July 25 of the same year. Developers were given more than five months to test their applications with the new operating system before it was released to the public on the Mac App Store.



Website traffic from machines running pre-release builds of OS X 10.9 could be seen significantly growing in presence as early as January of this year. That helped to fuel speculation that Apple could unveil the software around February on target for a summer launch, as it had done a year prior with Mountain Lion.

The last two major OS X releases became available to the public in late July, with OS X 10.7 Lion hitting the Mac App Store on July 20, 2011. In the event that Apple were to follow the same release schedule this year, developers would have less than a month and a half to test OS X 10.9 after a presumed beta were to become available at WWDC.
post #2 of 75

Thanks to 16-core Hackintoshes at 1 Infinite Loop, Apple builds OS X faster and more often.

post #3 of 75
If it's buggy it's better to not release anything to the public.. better safe than sorry Apple. Remember MAPS. Yeah so does everyone else.

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post #4 of 75
That would be a rather short time to test. Even more so since they've pulled devs off of OS X to work on iOS 7.
post #5 of 75
That's a remarkable build number. It makes no sense to build twice a day or even most weekends. So that's more than a years work overlapping with 10.8. I think iOS 7 might also have been co developed simultaneously with iOS 6.
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post #6 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

That's a remarkable build number. It makes no sense to build twice a day or even most weekends. So that's more than a years work overlapping with 10.8. I think iOS 7 might also have been co developed simultaneously with iOS 6.

How about they have two teams: one for the foundation and the other for the UI and apps, each with different 8 hour shifts?¡

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post #7 of 75
I am so looking forward to OS X 10.9 and maybe the release of a new Mac Pro.

However I don't think they will unveil or release a new MacPro until 10.9 is GM, no point if the OS is overhauled.
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post #8 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

That would be a rather short time to test. Even more so since they've pulled devs off of OS X to work on iOS 7.

 

Keep in mind that was a rumor.

 

It all depends what's being added / changed. If it's UI / finder revamp mostly, then it could have been well tested by Feb. 

 

 

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post #9 of 75
You never know. Apple could start the build numbering from any arbitrary set of digits. 451 would be the second build if they happened to start at 450.

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post #10 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

That would be a rather short time to test. Even more so since they've pulled devs off of OS X to work on iOS 7.

That would be a rather short time to test. Perhaps even more so since, according to rumour, they've pulled devs off of OS X to work on iOS 7.

there. fixed that for ya.
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post #11 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

That would be a rather short time to test. Even more so since they've pulled devs off of OS X to work on iOS 7.

 

Always amazing how unsubstantiated rumors become indisputable fact just by being repeated often enough. Could you please provide a link proving your assertion that OS X engineers have been pulled off to work on iOS 7? Hearsay and rumor mill reports don't count, of course.

post #12 of 75

This means nothing. Mountain Lion in 1000x better than Lion, but had fewer builds.

 

Another way to look at it: Bugs, bugs everywhere. Take your time Apple, make it as stable as possible.

post #13 of 75
There's an awful lot of ignorant speculation going on here.
post #14 of 75
i heard a rumour that the name for this release is Fahrenheit. And that this is the final build.
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post #15 of 75
So what is OSX 10.9 going to be called? Cougar? Lynx? Bobcat? Margay? Serval? I guess there are still plenty of cats out there, so it shouldn't be a too difficult choice.

But what will the OS that comes after 10.9 be called? Will it be 10.10 or will it be OSXI? Maybe it will become a single platform under iOS8?
post #16 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

That's a remarkable build number. It makes no sense to build twice a day or even most weekends.

It only makes no sense if you've never used continuous integration and automated unit/regression testing after each commit.  On the other hand, this is quite a common thing to use for software groups that work on complex pieces of software, such as an OS, do.

post #17 of 75
Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post
However I don't think they will unveil or release a new MacPro until 10.9 is GM, no point if the OS is overhauled.

 

Of course they'd release it before the OS. They've always done that. The first aluminum iMacs ran Tiger, for heaven's sake. People were upset, but Leopard was a free upgrade.


Originally Posted by Pooch View Post
i heard a rumour that the name for this release is Fahrenheit. And that this is the final build.

 

Ha! Nonsense. A final build given to devs? 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #18 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

There's an awful lot of ignorant speculation going on here.

Um.... why don't you shed some light then? Or shut up?

post #19 of 75

Ocelot. I would be endlessly amused.

post #20 of 75
I suspect that they aren't doing a huge amount of changes in Mac OS this year. Cleaning up stability and perhaps some visual tweaks. But most of it I suspect will be the apps not the OS. This could be why hey shifted a few folks over to iOS, they had nothing to do until the developers provided some real word feedback from some of the thousands of variant systems they can't possible assemble and test themselves. Since the two systems come off the same core why not shift them rather than let them earn a paycheck doing little to nothing. Especially when fresh eyes could find code bugs and stop another wifi bug like iOS 6 had

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post #21 of 75
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
There's an awful lot of ignorant speculation going on here.

 

Wonder which Apple fan site will take this as its tagline first… Because it works for all of us! lol.gif

 

Or maybe we could have a bunch of them that cycle at the top of the page.

 

AppleInsider: There's an awful lot of ignorant speculation going on here.

AppleInsider: "I'm an Apple fan, but…"

AppleInsider: New Mac Pros! Psyche.

AppleInsider: Where the mother meets the board.


Edited by Tallest Skil - 6/6/13 at 11:06am

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #22 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdefender View Post

If it's buggy it's better to not release anything to the public.. better safe than sorry Apple. Remember MAPS. Yeah so does everyone else.

It's impossible to release a bug free OS of this level.  Because in order to actually test and OS, you have to put it on every computer/third party hardware and software and test it.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to do that.   But, releasing it to the developers ahead of time gives them the chance to update their software, test it as best as they can so the third party developers have their updates within a couple of months after the OS is released to the customer.    Haven't you noticed that Apple is having less updates per major release?  They just released 10.8.4. in about 9 months.  I'm sure when 10.9 comes out, they might have or need 10.8.5, but they also might not need to update it.  10.7 had 5 builds.  10.6 had 8 builds.  10.5 had 8 builds.  10.4 had 11 builds.  10.3 had 9 builds.  10.2 had 8 builds.  10.1 had 5 builds. 10.0 had 4 builds.

 

So, it looks like Apple is doing much better in getting to a bug free release. 

 

MAPS was not a bug in the software, it was the data that was being displayed.  Apple can only do so much with third party data, especially when you are displaying the entire world.  Even Google has bugs in the data, even to this day.  Apple should have spent another 6 months to a year cleaning it up, but it's faster if they have customers submitting problems.

post #23 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i heard a rumour that the name for this release is Fahrenheit. And that this is the final build.

I heard a similar rumour that it's called Kelvin and Hobbled. (is this what we're doing now? 1biggrin.gif)

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post #24 of 75
There are always third party developers who under NDA get access to OS X long before WWDC, as its going through the early to mid late build stages.
post #25 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

There's an awful lot of ignorant speculation going on here.
 

Please provide us with some informed speculation, then! ;)

 

Perhaps Apple is testing some amazing new features that they don't want to release to developers too early. It could be for the "surprise" factor at Monday's keynote (Tim's doubling down on secrecy! lol) or there could be things that Apple doesn't want leaked during a long developer testing period like new hardware, new services, or new Jony Ive UI elements, etc.

 

Of course it could be much ado about nothing!

post #26 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Um.... why don't you shed some light then? Or shut up?

I can say from experience that trying to shed light on ignorance in a forum is a waste of time. That said…

 

If the build number is at all correct, then it is interesting. However all those people who think that Apple submits builds to devs for testing are delusional. Apple does not use devs for beta testing. They only give devs beta builds for the sole purpose of devs testing their apps against the OS and to get feedback on APIs, and let devs prepare for the new release. It is a side benefit that they get some bug testing done, but that is not its primary purpose. Apple has in-house testing tools which they rely on. 

post #27 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

It's impossible to release a bug free OS of this level.  Because in order to actually test and OS, you have to put it on every computer/third party hardware and software and test it.  It's IMPOSSIBLE to do that.  

Although one doesn't expect an OS of this complexity to be bug free, it's hard to attribute problems to third-party hardware when Apple builds OS X for its own hardware.

post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

There are always third party developers who under NDA get access to OS X long before WWDC, as its going through the early to mid late build stages.

I haven't seen much of that. Last year it was the pundits that got early access with a private demo and preview build a week(?) or so before it was announced. I wonder if that has happened this time or if the doubling down on secrecy has eliminated that aspect. If we see no word from Gruber about OS X 10.9 perhaps that could be a sign that he's under a non-disclosure again this year.

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post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

Although one doesn't expect an OS of this complexity to be bug free, it's hard to attribute problems to third-party hardware when Apple builds OS X for its own hardware.

Apple builds its own machines, it does not build all the hardware within those machines. Ever seen the errata list for, say, an Intel CPU? They can sometimes be massive. Also, not all hardware bugs will plainly manifest themselves when doing development work and sometimes do not manifest until the software is in the wild and being used by regular users. So it's perfectly reasonable and easy to attribute certain issues in the OS with hardware bugs especially when they only manifest during weird edges cases (as many do).

post #30 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

You never know. Apple could start the build numbering from any arbitrary set of digits. 451 would be the second build if they happened to start at 450.

 

What is the point in starting from 450.

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post #31 of 75
I want 10.9 to be all optimization like Snow Leopard was. The only feature request I have is to let us customize our notifications. Basso does not please me. I also don't want birthdays from Facebook to pop up as notifications.
post #32 of 75

I have the feeling development of OS X is becoming more like iOS, than the other way around.  If you look at the build history of iOS releases, iOS 6.0 was build 10A403 - 406, depending on the device you had.  With OS X being updated on a cycle thats closer to a yearly basis rather than 18-24 months, I'm confident that Apple started building 10.9 not much after 10.8 was released, which means that ~250 builds wouldn't be out of the question at this point of it's development cycle.

post #33 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I haven't seen much of that. Last year it was the pundits that got early access with a private demo and preview build a week(?) or so before it was announced. I wonder if that has happened this time or if the doubling down on secrecy has eliminated that aspect. If we see no word from Gruber about OS X 10.9 perhaps that could be a sign that he's under a non-disclosure again this year.

 

mdriftmeyer is almost certainly correct, and probably knows what he's talking about. As for Gruber, even if he's under NDA, he can most likely publish info he receives from sources other than official Apple channels.

post #34 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic View Post

It only makes no sense if you've never used continuous integration and automated unit/regression testing after each commit.  On the other hand, this is quite a common thing to use for software groups that work on complex pieces of software, such as an OS, do.
Yeah I suppose if the 4 people working on OS X had a build every time they submitted it might have taken 100 days.

Don't be an idiot. They build every day.
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post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I want 10.9 to be all optimization like Snow Leopard was. The only feature request I have is to let us customize our notifications. Basso does not please me. I also don't want birthdays from Facebook to pop up as notifications.

My kind of guy.
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post #36 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post


Yeah I suppose if the 4 people working on OS X had a build every time they submitted it might have taken 100 days.

Don't be an idiot. They build every day.

4 people work on OS X? Builds would have taken a 100 days (are they building OS X on Pentium 1 machines)? You're joking, right?

post #37 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akac View Post

I can say from experience that trying to shed light on ignorance in a forum is a waste of time. That said…

If the build number is at all correct, then it is interesting. However all those people who think that Apple submits builds to devs for testing are delusional. Apple does not use devs for beta testing. They only give devs beta builds for the sole purpose of devs testing their apps against the OS and to get feedback on APIs, and let devs prepare for the new release. It is a side benefit that they get some bug testing done, but that is not its primary purpose. Apple has in-house testing tools which they rely on. 

That's not correct either because a few thousand devs will have more coverage of any OS than a few hundred testers.

Unless Apple run their large OS on shifts - which I doubt - they build overnight. As they do for WebKit. It's standard large project methodology. Not every build gets full testing either - it's tested for stability first. A smoke test.

No large project builds the entire project for every coders change or submission. You would get to 451 in half a day if that were the case.
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post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I heard a similar rumour that it's called Kelvin and Hobbled. (is this what we're doing now? 1biggrin.gif)

probably not ... unless you've got one for celsius ... otherwise, i think we're done ...
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post #39 of 75
Geez another total spaz of an article. Sometimes it's like people were just born in the last five years. This build number is nothing to read into whatsoever. This articles own evidence defeats its argument.

They used to do one build a day, years ago. Don't think that's always the case these days. If they started 10.9 the day after GM'ing 10.8, does that come to roughly this build number in days?
post #40 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

That's a remarkable build number. It makes no sense to build twice a day or even most weekends. So that's more than a years work overlapping with 10.8. I think iOS 7 might also have been co developed simultaneously with iOS 6.

 

Will be interesting to see what's going on here. The "13" refers to Darwin version 13, which iOS 6 is already based on. Makes me wonder if iOS 7 will be as well, or if Darwin 14 is ready to go and they're pushing the newest core updates into iOS first, since it is a little less top heavy?


Edited by mjtomlin - 6/6/13 at 11:43am
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