or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple reportedly latest company to join US government's PRISM data mining program [ux2]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple reportedly latest company to join US government's PRISM data mining program [ux2]

post #1 of 130
Thread Starter 
As more information regarding a secret Internet data mining initiative comes to light, one report reveals Apple staved off advances from both the NSA and FBI until six months after cofounder Steve Jobs died, though the company claims not to have even heard of the program.

Update: CNBC is now reporting Facebook and Google are also denying involvement.

Update 2: Yahoo has also released a statement denying participation in PRISM.

PRISM
Source: The Washington Post


The Washington Post on Thursday dropped a bombshell when it published a report outlining a formerly secret government project ? codename PRISM ? that monitors the central servers of nine major U.S. Internet companies, the most recent being Apple.

According to the report, which is based on leaked PowerPoint slides, Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple are participating in the project that "extract audio, video, photographs, e-mails, documents and connection logs that enable analysts to track a person?s movements and contacts over time."

Apple reportedly joined PRISM in 2012, some five years after Microsoft became the first corporate entity to take part in the program. Others followed suit, offering the FBI?s Data Intercept Technology Unit access to their servers. The publication claims the Silicon Valley companies were "obliged" to accept a directive from the attorney general and the director of national intelligence, possibly as part of a secret order handed down by the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Court in 2008 to "compel a reluctant company 'to comply.'"

PRISM is reportedly one of the main sources of the President's Daily Brief, being cited in 1,477 articles during 2012. One of the slides notes ?NSA reporting increasingly relies on PRISM? for data acquisition.

For its part, Apple has denied the claims, saying in a statement to The Wall Street Journal, "We have never heard of PRISM. We do
not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers."

A more extensive and in-depth report on the operation and its long history can be found on The Post's website.
post #2 of 130

Go directly to the Washington Post to get the details, instead of relying on a reinterpretation here. This is too important to the country and what little privacy and diminishing freedoms we have left.

 

To the endless parade of critics who have been wondering why Americans have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years... this story is a tiny piece of the answer.


Edited by SpamSandwich - 6/6/13 at 4:58pm

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #3 of 130
Is this info correct?
 
Apple said to CNBC: "We have never heard of PRISM. We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers.."
post #4 of 130
PRISM rule #1: You don't talk about PRISM
post #5 of 130
Apple denying means nothing, because so called national security letters make it illegal to even acknowledge the receipts thereof.

Thus Apple saying they participate would likely be illegal itself, and how would they know about such a program unless they were participating, so again they'd have to deny not to incriminate themselves.

China, soviet Russia, and the US as well as increasingly so the EU countries use more or less the same Gestapo tactics to "protect" their citizens from being free (which also means being responsible and vulnerable)

Ever wonder where that huge push for social networks and cloud computing really originates from?
post #6 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

To the endless parade of critics who have been wondering why Americans have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years... this story is a tiny piece of the answer.

 

Because especially these guys read the Post? Good one.

 

I sincerely doubt the Google and FB and Apple all deny involvement in things they participate in since up to four years... 

post #7 of 130

So much good news like this in one day (drop in the Verizon phone logs, which are assuredly just the tip of the iceberg there...). As I (and I'm sure plenty of others) have been pointing out for years, Congress doing stuff like pulling in companies to warn them over impinging on the address books / contact lists of their users is such a hypocritical circus. They've authorized total in-depth spying on every one of us already. Maybe they're pissed that they don't have the contacts... Oh wait, if they're stored in 'the cloud', they already do!

 

Right, people the world over hate us for our 'freedom'. 1rolleyes.gif It makes me want to puke.

post #8 of 130
Well lookie there. Microsoft was first. Although I'm not surprised when Microsoft came out with COFFEE that let's the FBI into anyone's computer.

Benghazi, the IRS, PRISM, wiretapping everyone's phones - when is Obama going to be impeached?
post #9 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

Is this info correct?
 
Apple said to CNBC: "We have never heard of PRISM. We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers.."

 

1) They are probably directed to lie about it under penalty of prison.

 

2) Saying "We do not provide any government agency with direct access to our servers" is easily stated as a misdirection. OK, maybe you have an automated feed of all of your data that goes directly to other government servers, and those are the ones the government agencies have direct access to.  See, they don't have access to "our servers".

 

It's not very hard to make that statement technically true while being just another government driven lie. So who wants the 'always on' Kinect in their living room now? It's getting really close to the ubiquitous monitoring capability that Orwell had in 1984 - plus some drones, for good measure.

 

And to be clear, it's not that anyone has to have anything to hide today. At some point, this stuff will be abused - whether it's government agencies doing (even more) illegal stuff with the knowledge, another McCarthy making sure 'those people' get blacklisted because they don't agree with something or other, or agencies leaking privileged information to wealthy campaign donors and corporate interests. The Constitution expressly rejected these types of government actions for a reason, and "our" government has totally sold us out.

post #10 of 130

Hm, something is fishy here...

 

If you look at another slide shown here: http://allthingsd.com/20130606/google-and-apple-outright-deny-theyre-helping-the-nsa-mine-data/ you find a remark at the bottom of the page: "Complete list and details on PRISM web page: GO PRISMFAA".

 

If you check the faa.gov page, you find the home of prism: http://www.dot.gov/individuals/privacy/pia-prism

 

Something that has absolutely nothing to do with what is reported by the Post or the Guardian, but still is mentioned on the slides they have published. Sounds like they had some delusional deep throat at work here.

 

P.S.: The "Program Cost of $20M per year" is another clear indicator that this is likely BS. Mining this amount of data at this cost is pretty much impossible.


Edited by dreyfus2 - 6/6/13 at 5:51pm
post #11 of 130
**** Obama.

This is what happens when you have a lawyer run your country.

And I certainly hope Apple's telling the truth.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #12 of 130
Latest company, AI, not last.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #13 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Go directly to the Washington Post to get the details, instead of relying on a reinterpretation here. This is too important to the country and what little privacy and diminishing freedoms we have left.

To the endless parade of critics who have been wondering why Americans have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years... this story is a tiny piece of the answer.

Well said.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #14 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Apple denying means nothing, because so called national security letters make it illegal to even acknowledge the receipts thereof.

Thus Apple saying they participate would likely be illegal itself, and how would they know about such a program unless they were participating, so again they'd have to deny not to incriminate themselves.

Now that's some real freedom right there, 'Merca!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #15 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Well lookie there. Microsoft was first.

First or last, if true this is disgusting. I hope Apple's telling the truth.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #16 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Go directly to the Washington Post to get the details, instead of relying on a reinterpretation here. This is too important to the country and what little privacy and diminishing freedoms we have left.

To the endless parade of critics who have been wondering why Americans have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years... this story is a tiny piece of the answer.

Do the Americans that have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years have a leaving date? I wish them all bon voyage.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
Reply
post #17 of 130
The future of technology means a more empowered and transparent society. Now with the internet and searching and informed citizen can find out if anyone is lying. So it isn't Al Qaeda that is the reason for NSA's pervasive spying program -- it's protecting those who have power and benefit from the status quo from those who might climb the latter (us, if you weren't paying attention). Of course, it might always have been this way -- it just wasn't so obvious. Pakistan and India fight over Kashmir -- because if there weren't an external threat, that means the people stop worrying about the frenemies. The US and China pretend at cyber games but really, they are both worried about groups like Anonymous more than each other. They agree to fight through proxies and may the best team win -- but likely their government bureaucrats are getting bought up like our leaders. The Dems and Repugs put on their show of fighting over nonsense, but they both quietly hold hands and keep empowering internal spying, drones and Patriot Act gulag policies. Enemies are a convenience to real power.
post #18 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

**** Obama.

This is what happens when you have a lawyer run your country.

And I certainly hope Apple's telling the truth.

 

All this started under Bush, because... you know... Freedom!

post #19 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

And I certainly hope Apple's telling the truth.

 

It's official, Apple LIED - they ARE participating  in PRISM.

 

 

 

Quote:
PRISM's existence was confirmed to USA TODAY Thursday night by a senior administration official and another official with knowledge of some aspects of the program.
post #20 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

It's official, Apple LIED - they ARE participating  in PRISM.

So two people who are not named but "with knowledge of some aspects of the program" are proof that Apple is lying? How do you know these two people are telling the truth? Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #21 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So two people who are not named but "with knowledge of some aspects of the program" are proof that Apple is lying? How do you know these two people are telling the truth? Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?

I think it could be that they ALL are going to deny involvement. No company wants to be associated with secret Internet data mining involving the government.

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #22 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/06/how-congress-unknowingly-legalized-prism-in-2007/

post #23 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


So two people who are not named but "with knowledge of some aspects of the program" are proof that Apple is lying? How do you know these two people are telling the truth? Why don't you think it's suspicious that Google, Facebook, and Yahoo are also on the list but deny involvement?

 

Really, you're just worried about someone thinking that Apple might be lying? They're probably all lying.

 

If you look over on Ars, they got responses from a number of these companies. Microsoft's statement is: "We provide customer data only when we receive a legally binding order or subpoena to do so, and never on a voluntary basis. In addition we only ever comply with orders for requests about specific accounts or identifiers. If the government has a broader voluntary national security program to gather customer data we don’t participate in it."

 

Oh, we only provide the data when we receive a legally binding order or subpoena. OK, so far, that would fall under a program like this.

 

If the government has a broader voluntary national security program... Uh, so what about a broader involuntary program? Happily, sentences that are word-smithed like this in no way actually deny the existence or participation in. It's vague legalese intended to sound like a denial while in no way stating "there is no such program and we would never participate in anything of that nature". THAT would be a denial.

 

Facebook has a similarly smarmy response: "Protecting the privacy of our users and their data is a top priority for Facebook. We do not provide any government organization with direct access to Facebook servers. When Facebook is asked for data or information about specific individuals, we carefully scrutinize any such request for compliance with all applicable laws, and provide information only to the extent required by law."

 

First sentence is meaningless. Second... Not providing direct access to Facebook servers means nothing. So they stream the data to that agencies servers and thereby don't have to provide access to their own. BFD. "When asked about individuals..." - OK, but the entire point is that they don't even have to be asked if their data is being mirrored out to shadow servers where it is archived/mined at will.

 

In a world where the data taps at the internet backbones have been leaked, Echelon is known, the refusal of the government and courts to apply existing standards of privacy (like needing warrants to intercept your mail or phone calls!) just because the word 'mobile' or 'e-' has been added to the front of it, there's little reason to think that a revelation about a system like this is improbable at all. Which is actually pretty sad - and certainly isn't just about Apple.

post #24 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I think it could be that they ALL are going to deny involvement. No company wants to be associated with secret Internet data mining involving the government.

 

Well, FWIW, if that would be true (which I am not convinced of), there would be another valid reason. At least in the EU that would mean a severe breach of safe harbour agreements under which US companies are allowed to store data of EU citizens. This could result in billions of fines.

post #25 of 130

 

Yep, and it's pretty safe to bet that these companies weren't asking for retroactive immunity for laws they violated just because they thought it sounded like a cool thing to ask for.

post #26 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreyfus2 View Post

 

Well, FWIW, if that would be true (which I am not convinced of), there would be another valid reason. At least in the EU that would mean a severe breach of safe harbour agreements under which US companies are allowed to store data of EU citizens. This could result in billions of fines.

I am not sure i read where it the EU was included....I think they are just compiling big data information in the US....

But you are right the EU would have them for lunch over this stuff....but they would have to prove it first.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #27 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

I think it could be that they ALL are going to deny involvement. No company wants to be associated with secret Internet data mining involving the government.

Surely they couldn't have thought of this independently. It must be conspiracy and collusion.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #28 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Surely they couldn't have thought of this independently. It must be conspiracy and collusion.

i am not sure i follow.......i never said anything about a jointed denial effort. I just said no company wants to be associated with giving the government customer data.  It is bad PR.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #29 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

Really, you're just worried about someone thinking that Apple might be lying? They're probably all lying.

Perhaps they are lying or perhaps none of them, but the OP wasn't trying to be objective in his comment. He simply took one bit of info and deemed it fact and everything else false because it fit his agenda.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #30 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

i am not sure i follow.......i never said anything about a jointed denial effort. I just said no company wants to be associated with giving the government customer data.  It is bad PR.....

Perhaps my comment was too esoteric. It's a reference to the DoJ case with Apple over iBookstore.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #31 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Perhaps my comment was too esoteric. It's a reference to the DoJ case with Apple over iBookstore.

oh...you made a joke....sorry i did not get that reference.....

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply

Tallest Skil:


"Eventually Google will have their Afghanistan with Oracle and collapse"

"The future is Apple, Google, and a third company that hasn't yet been created."


 


 

Reply
post #32 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Perhaps they are lying or perhaps none of them, but the OP wasn't trying to be objective in his comment. He simply took one bit of info and deemed it fact and everything else false because it fit his agenda.

 

What agenda? Are you watching the news?

 

PRISM has been confirmed by many many sources inside congress and government in general.

Those companies DO provide back door access for the NSA and they DO have agreements for that, which makes their statements LIES.

post #33 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Do the Americans that have been stockpiling weapons, ammo, food, water and fuel for years have a leaving date? I wish them all bon voyage.

Nobody said anything about leaving.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #34 of 130
This is the NSA. We've been running surveillance on supercomputers and prior to that mainframes ever since they were invented.

Dear Ireland,

Your ignorance is showing. This crap was expanded after 9/11 when a moron was in the White House.

Furthermore, this is standard practice since the 1950s. We've just gotten better technology to do it today.
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

It's official, Apple LIED - they ARE participating  in PRISM.



It is ILLEGAL for people and businesses served with these orders to even discuss their existence. That is actually in the law!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #36 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by japm View Post

What agenda? Are you watching the news?

PRISM has been confirmed by many many sources inside congress and government in general.
Those companies DO provide back door access for the NSA and they DO have agreements for that, which makes their statements LIES.

And you know this is factual because it was said on TV but when Apple, Google, Facebook and Yahoo said they don't it's not factual because they said it? You honestly don't see how your comments are silly?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #37 of 130

AI should stop with the Political threads. The amount of ignorance that is spread via political blogs on tech journals should be a reminder why most tech heads are legally and politically illiterate.

 

If you think recording phone number nodal relationships is new, then you probably never heard of Ma Bell. Grow a nutsack and understand this is a fear in search of a problem.

post #38 of 130

Yes, Bush and his "Patriot act" was a disaster, but then again so was Clinton's "carnivore" email spying program.  The government has been utilizing the latest technology to spy on people for a long time.  It's not exclusive to either party.

post #39 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


This crap was expanded after 9/11 when a moron was in the White House.

The current administration took advantage of the unconstitutional expansion of presidential powers spearheaded by Cheney and our war machine special interests. Obama and his gang have done nothing to "fix" what Bush+Cheney broke because it made the Democrat's agenda easier to push. Who's the bigger fool?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


And you know this is factual because it was said on TV but when Apple, Google, Facebook and Yahoo said they don't it's not factual because they said it?

 

Apple's privacy policy states clearly


It may be necessary − by law, legal process, litigation, and/or requests from public and governmental authorities within or outside your country of residence − for Apple to disclose your personal information. We may also disclose information about you if we determine that for purposes of national security, law enforcement, or other issues of public importance, disclosure is necessary or appropriate.

 

James R. Clapper the Director of National Intelligence says:

 

Quote:
Information collected under this program is among the most important and valuable foreign intelligence information we collect, and is used to protect our nation from a wide variety of threats.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Apple reportedly latest company to join US government's PRISM data mining program [ux2]