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Samsung shares slide amid Galaxy S4 sales concerns, mimicking Apple's own losses - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
Ah...but a single 'm' is meters.

 

"How many Galaxy S4's did we ship, Kirino?"

"5 meters."

"…"

 

I think given the context it'd be fine. lol.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Samsung continues to copy Apple.

So Apple thinks it invented investor panic? Typical iSheep fanboy argument. /s

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

So Apple thinks it invented investor panic? Typical iSheep fanboy argument. /s

The financial sector invented it. Apple improved upon it. How many other companies can drop 300 points and still survive with record earnings?!
post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


The financial sector invented it. Apple improved upon it. 

 

 

Like everything else Apple does - improves upon inventions!

post #45 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Samsung is traded only on the so-called 'pink sheets' in the US, i.e., it's not a regular ADR. The bid-ask spreads on those are way too high, and the trading is extremely thin. You want to stay away form those as a retail investor.

It's not surprising that Samsung doesn't want to do a full ADR listing in the US -- it is consistent with their generally not wanting to provide too much information about themselves (their investor relations people never respond to emails either).

Most online brokerage companies have access to the London Stock Exchange which is one of the three exchanges Samsung is traded on, so it's pretty easy to buy common stock, SMSN. I know eTrade has it for you American couch traders. UBS, the bank I work for trades Samsung in Luxembourg where it is offered as a prefered stock. I had 100 shares of Samsung for a long while, I bought it at 1,240 and sold it recently for 1,360, made a profit of 12,000. Not too shabby but I think I'm going to put in a short sale, it closed today at 1400 but I think it's going down next week. Just speculation, nothing more, I normally just trade the FTSE 100 in London and the DAX Index on Eurex in Germany but I dabble a little with tech stocks. One the greatest advantages of working in a financial firm is I have access to real time ticket data, exchange trading and clearing clients and of course a Bloomberg terminal. Nothing wrong in sneaking in a trade or two at work during lunch or the many so called smoking breaks. The people in the smoke room are starting to get suspicious though as I just step in for a sec to ask them to blow smoke on me, gotta keep up appearances.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #46 of 67
Channel stuffed.

Samsung doesn't report sales, they report shipments. It's the simplest and most reasonable explanation why JPMorgan suddenly knows that after a supposedly fast start, next quarters S4 numbers are going down.

No room left on the shelves.
post #47 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision33r View Post

Samsung is their own enemy right now, not Apple. They over produced, over market, and rolled out too many tricks and gimmicks. You watch the Sammy commercials they intentionally and smugly targeted Apple users which will attract Apple haters but people who are on the fence may not like attack ads.

People I know who got the S3 will most likely not upgrade for the next 2 years since the S4 is same physical size just different bits and pieces inside.

1biggrin.gif

Galaxy-S4-Zoom1.png
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Ah...but a single 'm' is meters.
Yes and a double 'm' is millimeters.
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"How many Galaxy S4's did we ship Kirino?"
I believe you have the wrong Nationality
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #50 of 67
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
I believe you have the wrong Nationality

 

For the life of me, I couldn't come up with a Korean-sounding surname off the top of my head. Chinese, yes, Japanese, certainly, but not Korean…

 

OS X's dictionary tells me my choice is of Philippine origin… well, at least it was the right half of the continent… 1tongue.gif

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #51 of 67

Customers are realizing that the S4 is not such a big deal

   and  Samsung will not be able to copy Apple's next iPhone before it is out.
 

post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I know, but I'd think a single m would make sense. How many Ms in 'million', after all…

MM= not exactly correct Roman numerals for 1 thousand thousands = 1 million?

post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

For the life of me, I couldn't come up with a Korean-sounding surname off the top of my head. Chinese, yes, Japanese, certainly, but not Korean…

OS X's dictionary tells me my choice is of Philippine origin… well, at least it was the right half of the continent… 1tongue.gif
Park?

We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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post #54 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

For the life of me, I couldn't come up with a Korean-sounding surname off the top of my head. Chinese, yes, Japanese, certainly, but not Korean…

OS X's dictionary tells me my choice is of Philippine origin… well, at least it was the right half of the continent… 1tongue.gif

That's racist?
post #55 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

MM is "Million in some financial contexts". Thanks Wiki. Would M*M be better?
How about "million" or "000,000", both are only 4 more keystrokes and infinitely less confusing. It's really not that hard.

We've always been at war with Eastasia...

Reply

We've always been at war with Eastasia...

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post #56 of 67
Originally Posted by rasimo View Post
MM= not exactly correct Roman numerals for 1 thousand thousands = 1 million?

 

Ah… I'm cool with that. Still not sure why the modern world wants to use them, but that's a decent explanation.

 

Originally Posted by diplication View Post
Park?

 

*smacks forehead with base of palm* Park! That'd do it.


Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
That's racist?

 

Is it? lol.gif I don't think it's racist to confuse McCormick as being an originally Irish surname, for example, where Cosgrave is.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #57 of 67

Oh dear.  :P

 

Looks like the Karma button is being pressed by someone. :D

 

Crap plastic phone with crap, clunky 'me too' OS.

 

Chav' phone.

 

I hope Wallstreet punish them for not meeting targets and cutting 'shipping' unit projections.

 

Let's see Samsung 'innovate' their way out of this one.

 

Seem to have been very quiet the last half year or so.  S'funny, without Apple releasing product for them to copy or jump on.

 

S4.  Or 'Same4'...

 

...ah yes...and we need loads of 'Analysts' shouting that Samesung is 'doomed...' and make up articles of untruth about them...yeah...lots of scaremongering washed down with a tankard of stock manipulation...

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #58 of 67

No.  Didn't think so.  Didn't think Samsung could take the lead.

 

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #59 of 67
Oh, but wait?! I thought they sold 10m units in a month? Could it possibly be that they were LYING? Say it isn't so.
post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication View Post

How about "million" or "000,000", both are only 4 more keystrokes and infinitely less confusing. It's really not that hard.

Could you use "it is" instead of "it's"?
post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq2 View Post

Channel stuffed.

Samsung doesn't report sales, they report shipments. It's the simplest and most reasonable explanation why JPMorgan suddenly knows that after a supposedly fast start, next quarters S4 numbers are going down.

No room left on the shelves.

Everyone reports shipments, including Apple.

The difference, however, is that Apple also provides channel inventory data (so that we can infer actual sales), and relatedly, provides data on numbers sold. Samsung hides both those numbers. I am guessing they do that because they like their hyped-up market share estimates (put out by consulting firms that don't know the first thing about data analysis), and the ASP on their 'smart'phones is embarrassing.
post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdq2 View Post

Channel stuffed.

Samsung doesn't report sales, they report shipments. ...
 
Samsung doesn't report either one.  Analysts try to figure it out, using supplier and store info, and even by checking what's coming into a country through customs.
 
As for channels getting stuffed and sales dropping the next quarter, the exact same situation  happens several times a year with Apple as well.  It's just the way things go.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

The difference, however, is that Apple also provides channel inventory data (so that we can infer actual sales), and relatedly, provides data on numbers sold. Samsung hides both those numbers. I am guessing they do that because they like their hyped-up market share estimates (put out by consulting firms that don't know the first thing about data analysis), and the ASP on their 'smart'phones is embarrassing.

 

For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones.   Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones.  That's a wholesale ASP over $370.  
 
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
 
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258.  (Apple is  way higher than that, but they're unique.)
 
Of course,  if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up.  And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
 
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers.  They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started.  That seems a likely reason.  They do still report milestones, though.
post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post

My guess is that Google is the next to take a hit when Samsung moves their phones to Tizen in an effort to increase profits and differentiate itself from Google's own phone offerings. This will lead to an immediate mega-divide in the Android community and a lot of Android in-fighting battling Samsung's army of paid posters against Google's PR machine.

I want popcorn, a 32 oz coke, and a ring side seat to that cat fight!!!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDarling View Post

 

For 4Q 2012, Samsung had about $26 billion in revenue on smartphones.   Some analysts claim they sold as many as 70 million smartphones.  That's a wholesale ASP over $370.  
 
For 1Q 2013, they made about $23.6 billion with 65 million smartphones, or an ASP of $363.
 
The industry average selling price in early 2012 was about $258.  (Apple is  way higher than that, but they're unique.)
 
Of course,  if we claim that the analysts' sales estimates are high, the ASP goes up.  And if we note that around 1/3 of them were low end phones, then that raises the ASP of the mid and high end phones.
 
Like other east Asian companies, Samsung never used to report sales numbers.  They only did so for a short while around 2010, then went quiet again after all the lawsuits started.  That seems a likely reason.  They do still report milestones, though.

Ah, here we go again, with your well-worn 'analyst' nonsense. (The term analysts, btw, usually refers to those who make buy/sell recommendations for stocks and bonds; you're referring to marketing research and consulting firms like Gartner and IDC). As you well know, their methodology is laughable: they conflate actuals (for Apple) with estimates (for everyone else). I am not sure in which statistical universe that passes muster.....

 

Btw, why is Apple "unique"?

 

As to your hinting that 'lawsuits' were the reason Samsung may have stopped reporting volume data, we've been through that before as well, and you've been repeatedly proved wrong. Cite the article that purports to show that (as you always do), and we'll again go through why the reporter there was actually saying no such thing.

 

The bottom line is simply this, and it is a factually correct one: Apple is the only one that reports channel inventory and volumes and therefore, Apple is the only one for whom we can really estimate 'sales'; Samsung's ASP is pretty low compared to Apple's since they produce a lot of low-end crap. End of story.

post #65 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.

But for some reason Apple is still the most valuable company in the world with a current market cap of 414 Billion with Exxon is second place at 406 Billion.  What the Apple Haters/ Samsung lovers fail to mention that since no one else has come close to passing these two that the market as a whole has shifted downward. Even when all the stock manipulators left Apple and went to Google, Apple has still maintained 100 Billion plus ahead of Google in market value.  

post #66 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

MM is "Million in some financial contexts". Thanks Wiki. Would M*M be better?

Plain or peanuts?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino View Post

Maybe it's too early to tell if Samsung share will slide for as long or as deep as Apple. Apple lost 45% from its peak of $705 to its trough of $382 in 8 months. Samsung only dropped 6% for a day. I'm not a Samsung investor in anyway, but the pain in Apple has been management's dead silence during the slide. For Samsung it looks like someone may care if a prolonged downturn in stock price is played out.

What should Apple have said? "Stop selling off our stock."

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