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Apple offers sneak peek at new cylindrical Mac Pro assembled in the USA - Page 4

post #121 of 308
It looks interesting but I will wait for the final specs. I might be tempted to finally get one to replace the old G5 that went out a few years back.
post #122 of 308

Why don't you clowns actually do something called "WAIT" and see what Apple has planned in the big picture with the Mac Pro?  Jeez... sounds like a bunch of whining, bratty kids having a hissy-fit in preschool.

Personally, I like this new concept.  When they introduced Thunderbolt, and the timeline for it, I figured Apple was going to really use the modular capabilities that Thunderbolt provides.  It essentially extends PCIe outside of the box so you can configure it any way you want it.  The days of the big, bulky tower box is gone.  It makes cooling a lot easier since the fan covers the necessities, where the old box, the fans had to cool down other cards that Apple may, or may not know will ever be added.

Also, with Thunderbolt now becoming available in optical fiber, the cpu unit can remain on the desk, quiet and all, while all the hardware (disk, RAM box, etc) can reside somewhere else.  That's cool.

So Apple will esentially sell a CPU/GPU system and (hopefully) price it that way, and let the user expand it anyway they want it (via Thunderbolt).  Sounds like a win-win for all.

As far as it being a "dust magnet", how is that different than the old box?  If people stick anything with fans under their desk, how is that NOT going to attract dust?

As far as cables, every current Mac Pro user I know has a huge cable-nest behind their tower.  So this argument is moot.  I lost track of how many whiners said "My Mac Pro stays under my desk, I don't care how it looks".  Now suddenly, some are changing their tune?

I was thinking of the next iMac, now I'm going to see what Apple has planned with this Mac Pro.  It has enough of my attention to warrant further research.

post #123 of 308
Another quick observation:

You know who appreciated this design the most? Check out The Woz's eyes and jaw-drop in the audience.

Note to Pros: save up and invest in the future. This is once again the future of computing staring you in the face, and you just don't have the vision to see it. The traditional tower workstation is dead. As with the death of the floppy, the first to implement USB, networking out of the box, wifi, touch computing... Apple is showing the way towards the next decade in computing.

Oh yeah... and don't forget: this is an Apple-Intel universe now. 1tongue.gif Intel has a huge stake in pushing Thunderbolt, whether "The Other Guys" want to or not.... and Apple is their proven partner to do that with.
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post #124 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Well it might get smaller. The logic boards are certain to shrink even more over time.

Yeah, I'm disappointed that it isn't 6" tall.

 

  I keep thinking that what happened was like in "Spinal Tap", when they wrote the Stonehenge specs on a napkin and the when it came down from the skies......   :  )

post #125 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Doesn't matter when there are known driver issues with the FirePro and some pro apps that AMD is aware of and haven't fixed (ArcGIS,  Autodesk, even some issues in CS) but work perfectly fine on the Quadro.  And anyone that does CUDA is also now screwed.

Anybody doing CUDA is lost in the past. In fact using CUDA is foolish when there are open options. As to drivers that will be interesting to say the least but the Mac OS reveal did indicate OpenGL 4 support finally. In any event I've never been sure about who is ultimately responsible for drivers for Apple hardware. Drivers are an issue and even exploiting Haswell is a challenge.
post #126 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Actually... I bet SJ saw many portions of this new design before he died. Apple does NOT create new computers over night, or within a year, specifically one that they expect to sell for the next 5-10 years.

Other than the cylindrical part... which by all physical logic is brilliant... it's almost exactly what I was expecting. Speculating a couple of months back, I thought it would be about 3-4 stacked Mac Minis in height, with stackable TB chassis. Actually, I still think those may be coming from either Apple or 3rd parties.


Also.... one last note: nobody mentioned the logical design as it mirrors Apple's new campus.... can you say Power Hub? 1cool.gif

 

Good point- Steve may have had input on this latest Mac Pro design. It's too bad he wasn't around to introduce this- I can only imagine his Steve-o excitement and enthusiasm, bringing out acrobats to roll across the stage on top of it as they balance a long pole off the tip of their noses lol.gif

post #127 of 308
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post
It looks like a fun and capable upscale consumer computer. Big upgrade from a mini or an iMac, for sure. HUGE downgrade from a Mac Pro though.


It's more powerful than the existing Mac Pro in every single possible way. And you still have the gall to think you can get away with calling it a downgrade? 1oyvey.gif

post #128 of 308

Damnit, I miss my old cube...

post #129 of 308

Finally, dual graphics chips in a Mac.  Since it is AMD graphics, I'm assuming this is Crossfire?

 

The next revision should have a second internal SSD slot.  There seems to be enough room for it.

post #130 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post


Maybe he has thousands of dollars invested in specialized equipment that won't work with this device.
It is a fact of life! I've seen cases where instruments costing $70,000+ dollars had to be scraped because manufactures would no longer support the AT based expansion card. interestingly the replacement runs on a Mini with a supporting external card.

I can't stress this enough technology marches on, even PCI Express will become a thing of the past.
Quote:

Thunderbolt adoption has been painfully slow already.  TB2 will be even worse.    Hopefully the haswell iMacs will have TB2 in order to expand it's possible target audience somewhat.
This complaint is tired and idiotic and isn't made true by constantly repeating it. TB has been very successful as it addresses a specific need which is high speed communications. TB isn't meant to replace USB3, honestly why do you thing Apple added USB3 to this machine.
post #131 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post

Good point- Steve may have had input on this latest Mac Pro design. It's too bad he wasn't around to introduce this- I can only imagine his Steve-o excitement and enthusiasm, bringing out acrobats to roll across the stage on top of it as they balance a long pole off the tip of their noses lol.gif

Huh? SJ was always enthusiastic, but he always had class. He would never EVER do anything like you described!

Leave those theatrics to Samsung and MS these days. They're the Masters of Meh at the School of Embarrassment.


Yes. The more I think about it... and considering the Spaceship HQ/Turbo engine design....SJ is smilin' ☺ I'll join in on that grin 1biggrin.gif
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post #132 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

Look at the new info on Apple's site. It answers a lot of your questions.

Thanks for the heads up! All the people crying over innovation ought to look at Apples web site as it does much to explain the design decisions. People - this is a very innovative high performance machine, i real think Apple has a huge winner here. They just need to make sure the price is right.
post #133 of 308

I probably won't be getting one of these new Mac Pros right now, simply because I'm pretty sure that the cost will be far more than I am willing to budget for a computer at the moment, but damn, this is one sweet machine!

 

Isn't it funny how people have been whining for ages about the Mac Pro? When is the new one coming out! Apple doesn't innovate anymore! Blah Blah, fucking Blah.

 

And now that Apple releases a truly innovative design that looks like no Mac before it, that's 1/8 the size of the previous machine, out come the whiners, with their endless whining! These people are truly old fashioned and they're better off building their own PC, so that they can get exactly the machine that is made for them. And hopefully they won't have to whine anymore, since Apple has apparently innovated too much and taken too much of a leap. A leap that is guaranteed to confuse certain people who are not forward thinking.

post #134 of 308
That's the coolest black trash can I've ever seen.




Edited by Commodification - 6/10/13 at 2:31pm
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post #135 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

You must be joking. They called it scaled down becasue it is.
It is shipping with twice the performance of the old machines and I'm willing to bet in some cases it will be more than twice the performance. That isn't scaled down at all.
Quote:
You think they magically designed a system that has all of the features of the current machine in a box a quarter the size?
They got rid of everything that wasn't required for a "pro" computing platform. Further they added things that the current model doesn't even support well.
Quote:
Where are the PCI slots?
Where are the AT, PCI, AGP, NuBus and other slots from the last century. They are gone because they aren't needed anymore.
Quote:
Where are the bays to install tons of storage inside the box? This box is more of a scaled up Mac Mini than a scaled down Mac pro....
[/'quote]
Which is an asinine statement if I've ever heard of one. The drive bays are gone because they don't belong inside a pro computational module. You are lost in the past and as such are having a hard time seeing that things can and should be done differently in the future.
Quote:
it ignores all of the reasons that people wanted a Mac Pro in the first place. 
ACtually it addresses the very reasons that people buy Mac Pros in the first place. That is performance. This machine has huge potential.
Quote:
Based on what? Just because Apple decrees something doesn't make it right or the industry standard. 

You need to bone up on computer hardware. It won't be long before the only discrete GPUs you can even get will be in machines like this new Mac Pro. The industry is rapidly moving from barely serviceable integrated GPUs to Integrated GPUs that are not only good enough but effectively replace most discrete GPUs. Even with discrete GPUs they need ot be tightly coupled to the hardware of the rest of the system in order to maximize performance.

Beyond that it doesn't look like these processors are soldered on to the motherboard so I could imagine an enterprising individual upgrading them. The problem is GPUs have matured along with CPU's By the time it makes sense to replace the GPU's it might make more sense to simply replace the entire machine.

When I look at this machine I see the future. The fact that it causes you to long for the past is really your problem not mine.
post #136 of 308
This is almost exactly what I've been saying for years that a Mac Pro should be. The days of needing a giant tower are gone. After a decade of buying the top of the line Mac tower, I switched to a mini in 2007 and haven't looked back - until now. This could easily be my dream Mac. I wonder what the prices will be.
post #137 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezwits View Post

The Thunderbolt could be 6 Firewire ports with adapters.

I am just laughing at how people thought Apple would kill the Mac Pro line...

Like Apple programmers and the people that work at Apple don't want the fastest thing money can buy!  So they made it, and are going to sell it to us, to those that can afford it.
Sell it will! I can't fathom the negativity here myself. This is a design that could effectively pull the Mac pro out of its sales slide and set a new industry standard. I can see HP powering up its copiers right now to realize a similar design of their own, just like how they copy the MBPs.
Quote:

I think apple is making a serious move with OpenCL and AMD/ATI.  Apple is serious about utilizing resources and power in their systems at all times.  I.E. putting the GPU to work at all times.  
People don't realize how successful OpenCL has been and the following it has in the industry. This machine just offers up an even more impressive workstation to leverage that sort of usage.
Quote:
I think they want all developers to move forward and create apps to always expect GPU and CPU sharing the load as equals, almost, but having specialized functions when the time arrises.

I am excited cause there's a future, not a bleak iOS everything world, and the thing that is great is that the "Mac" lives on...

Laters...

I find the machine very interesting myself as it is indeed innovative. That isn't to say it is perfect but it will move the industry forward.
post #138 of 308
The more I think about this bold move, the more I think it is so full of brilliance and genius... it's beyond comprehension at first glance.

The Mac Pro Power Hub. EVERYTHING is expandable with TB.... AND.... the business side? I believe someone above mentioned it first, but this beast is going to actually retain even MORE of it's value down the road than any Mac before it. For the very express reason that it DOESN'T have internals.

Look at those mouth-watering specs to begin with... now add your RAID stack, your powered PCIe externals, RAM disks... now AND in the future. This very well could be the computer you hang on to for 6, 7 or even 10 years... as crazy as that sounds... but possible. That's not to say that Apple won't do iteration upgrades to the internals, but the base... or Mothership 1... could very well hold 75% of it's resale value for a very long time.

Apple has just built the mother of all computer engines... something analogous to a Porsche Carrera. Change your brakes, tires/rims, suspension, exhaust, turbo-cooler, sound system, what have you... but the engine in general, stays the same.... and THAT's what you pay for when purchasing a Porsche. That beast of an engine.

Apple ][ has it right: the rest of the manufacturers out here are just dumbfounded, because now no matter what they do, it still won't equal the future potential of a Mac Pro, without copying it.

So you guys jumping ship and considering going backwards to tower computing, have fun. You'll be back... and seriously ticked that you threw 1-2k in the toilet for your little hissy fit revenge.

Me personally: I'm hoppin' on this galactic wave of freakin' fun! 1smoking.gif
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post #139 of 308

Only 4 DIMM slots is pathetic for a pro workstation and will make high capacity expansion unaffordable for all but oil tycoons.

Anything Thunderbolt is going to be more expensive.

Pulling air up from the floor is an approach best left to a Roomba.

My Early 2008 Mac Pro can already manage 2 GBps I/O via one PCIe 2.0 expansion slot.

I could have built a 16-core Xeon server 6 months ago, but no I was waiting for this.

Prediction: Kleenex brand tissues to fit the lid.


Edited by Cpsro - 6/10/13 at 3:30pm
post #140 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
The animated view shows only one, maybe two, SSD slot although the space in front of the other CPU is blank and could have room for another SSD slot.  That's pretty minimal if there's only one or two SSD blade slots and 1-2TB is really nothing in terms of space for pro machines.

The animated video shows ONE SSD slot.  the other bay does not have a docking port for one.

 

At least it isn't soldered in.

 

Other World sells a PCIe card with a 960GB SSD (two 480GB sticks in a RAID) for $1299.  1TB for this will no doubt be a similar price.

 

If the can sell the base machine with  a quad core Xeon at 2.66 or 2.8, 4GB RAM, and a 128GB SSD for $2499, they'll sell quite a few of these.

post #141 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

No, it's "Why does it have to be smaller?"  It goes under the desk.  It shouldn't have any nods to portability, we have other machines for that.  

 

Did they put the ports so close to each other that you can't use two adjacent ones?

 

Seriously?? I've had to lug numerous G5 and MacPro towers around. This is a VERY refreshing change and so incredibly faster than our previous 8-core MacPro! When I first saw this, it reminded me of when Apple first introduced the iMac. I am pretty floored and definitely excited. Glad Apple has put so much effort into this... and also glad they'll be assembling in the US!

post #142 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

 

Does it not support RAID externally?

 

How does it create space problems? It's a fraction of the size and easily fits within the existing footprint.

Space problems because of it's shape.

post #143 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post

Apple once again proving they hate professionals.


I remember hearing the same thing when Apple removed floppy disk drives.

post #144 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Look at those mouth-watering specs to begin with... now add your RAID stack, your powered PCIe externals, RAM disks... now AND in the future. This very well could be the computer you hang on to for 6, 7 or even 10 years... as crazy as that sounds... but possible. That's not to say that Apple won't do iteration upgrades to the internals, but the base... or Mothership 1... could very well hold 75% of it's resale value for a very long time.
 

Nonsense.  The resale value of it will depend on the power of the machine relative to the current model.  In 10 years, the Xeon E5 will look like a Pentium, and these things will be the special of the day at megamacs. 

 

That's not to say it isn't a powerful machine now, but would you pay 75% of the price for an original Mac Pro with this on the shelf at the Apple Store?  50%?  30%?

post #145 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezwits View Post

 

I am just laughing at how people thought Apple would kill the Mac Pro line...

 

 

And now we just might be seeing how Apple really is going to kill the Mac Pro line. :)

 

Truth is, what's the difference between this and an iMac at this point, other than you don't get a built in display?  Seriously. There's nothing in this box that couldn't be built into an (albeit thicker) iMac.

post #146 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

 

Does it not support RAID externally?

 

How does it create space problems? It's a fraction of the size and easily fits within the existing footprint.


I gather the external shell acts as one big heat sink.  A cylinder probably helps distribute the heat uniformly across the surface.

post #147 of 308
It's either an homage to the Cray 1 or a coffee travel mug!
post #148 of 308

All this talk of external expansion being the future makes me think of this old ad:

 

But the future is the future.  I just hope that all these wonderful external devices will last for at least a few generations of hardware upgrades.

post #149 of 308

On a more positive thought, do you suppose an updated mini could be built around the same basic concept.  Smaller, to be sure, but using the same airflow and basic internal layout.  Give it the same SSD as the Air.  Would be pretty slick, actually.

post #150 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

The lighted ports are a hint: this goes under the worksurface to free up space for those 4K monitors, tablets etc. Another reason not to put drives in the thing, so they can be (if needed at all) placed on the worksurface where they are accessible. Thtis isn't our grandfathers "desktop".... or, for myself lol, MY desktop.

 

I guess I wasn't too clear as this is the second post that mistook my intentions. It isn't the *footprint* that I'm concerned about (the new Mac Pro is far smaller than the previous generation). The problem is that it won't fit well in corners, up against other equipment (like the expansion boxes you'll need), etc.

post #151 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

I can't think of a reason why a cylinder would even be an advantageous shape.  

 

I guess you missed the critical part of why it was designed as a cylinder. Real pros must not pay attention.

post #152 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

How? Any product expansion is across Thunderbolt. We already know the cost inflation on Tbolt 1. When Tbolt 2 arrives costs will increase, not decrease from third party vendors, whose present expansion options are sparse presently.

Thunderbolt is PCI-E 2.0 x4. Thunderbolt 2 is supposed to include PCI-E 3.0 support, yet no specifics from Intel.

New Macbook Air with Haswell is just Thunderbolt 1.0 today.
Would you really expect TB 2 in a Air shipping today?
Quote:
I don't see a single benefit from this design other than Jony Ive's obsession with getting thin and small.
There are a number of benefits.
  1. It significantly reduces the size of a high performance workstation node. Like it or not this is huge.
  2. It will supply dual high performance GPU cards as standard. This is perhaps far more important then what many will want to admit too. It means software can be designed for a machine configuration that is well known.
  3. It addresses the cooling of high performance chips in a very innovative way.
  4. It migrates bulk storage to outside of the case. Yeah some won't like this but really they need to get a grip, the way of the world changes and improves over time. Disk arrays simply belong in an external enclosure.
  5. Contrary to the Johnny Ive smudge it is nearly 10" tall and about 6 and half in diameter. That isn't thin at all. It is small though for the computational horsepower contained but that is a huge advantage.
  6. The platform has one fan that is a huge advantage over the management of dozens seen in some platforms.
  7. There are plenty of high speed I/O ports running on separate controllers. This should allow for very high through put to a number of devices all at the same time.
Quote:
As has been said, this isn't a desk top piece of art. It's a Workstation. We aren't entering the world of Star Trek, no matter how much Apple thinks the world wants everything they sell to be All-in-One and a lot of add-ons.
For many users, I've willing to say the vast majority of users, there will be few if any add ons that they don't already have for the current machine they are using. Access to a network is all that many pros really need. If not the machine has plenty of TB ports to support bulk storage or other needs.
Quote:

I just don't see this selling at any level Pro users want. They will be pissed about all the extraneous money needed to connect legacy equipment.
Interesting because I see just the opposite, this machine will sell like hotcakes. Honestly though tell us about all that legacy equipment they will be pissed about. Would it really make sense to hook a computer like this up to a 15 year old disk array?
Quote:

Performance over PCI-E 2.0 x4 eliminated expanded GPGPU support. I don't need Nvidia for any task.
You are getting two high performance GPUs as it is. Has the message here already been lost on people. This will be very much a high performance compute node that is expected to offer up 7 TeraFlops of performance off the GPUs. That is extremely impressive in a machine this small. Further it will be easy for Apple to further increase performance with future generations of high performance GPUs.
post #153 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

 

And now we just might be seeing how Apple really is going to kill the Mac Pro line. :)

 

Truth is, what's the difference between this and an iMac at this point, other than you don't get a built in display?  Seriously. There's nothing in this box that couldn't be built into an (albeit thicker) iMac.


Much faster SSD, RAM, and a better processor.  Significantly better graphics.  A realistic number of TB ports.  If we gotta use 'em, at least there are enough of them.

 

It is a nice machine.  It just feels like we're skipping a step here to get from the current pro to this thing.

post #154 of 308

The bashers are out in force around the net.  

 

I will go with people like Blackmagic Designs:

 

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8898


Edited by Bergermeister - 6/10/13 at 5:40pm

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #155 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

No, it's only on the top. I saw that on Apple's site. It pulls in air from bottom. I guess the fan pushes it out from top.

 

It's your basic push-pull configuration.

post #156 of 308

It's screaming for a glowing white Apple logo on the front though?

post #157 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

I'm guessing no internal GPU expansion. Thunderbolt handicapped mid range GPU performance let alone high end ones, and Thunderbolt 2 actually has the same aggregate bandwidth, 2x10 and 2x10 up and down vs 1x20 up and down, 40Gb/s each, mind the little B. PCI-E is still way ahead. 

 

Wow, you assume a lot.

post #158 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankstallone View Post

What problem did Apple solve by making the Mac Pro portable? It's not like it's easy carrying around a 27" Apple Display.

It gets rid of the big box thus allowing placement of the new Mac Pro in more convenient locations. This is a design that can just as easily sit on a book shelf next to a desk as well as under the desk or on top of it. The small size makes for more versatility in where it sits.

The biggest draw back is the limited rack mounting potential.
post #159 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Would you really expect TB 2 in a Air shipping today?
There are a number of benefits.
  1. It significantly reduces the size of a high performance workstation node. Like it or not this is huge.
  2. It will supply dual high performance GPU cards as standard. This is perhaps far more important then what many will want to admit too. It means software can be designed for a machine configuration that is well known.
  3. It addresses the cooling of high performance chips in a very innovative way.
  4. It migrates bulk storage to outside of the case. Yeah some won't like this but really they need to get a grip, the way of the world changes and improves over time. Disk arrays simply belong in an external enclosure.
  5. Contrary to the Johnny Ive smudge it is nearly 10" tall and about 6 and half in diameter. That isn't thin at all. It is small though for the computational horsepower contained but that is a huge advantage.
  6. The platform has one fan that is a huge advantage over the management of dozens seen in some platforms.
  7. There are plenty of high speed I/O ports running on separate controllers. This should allow for very high through put to a number of devices all at the same time.
For many users, I've willing to say the vast majority of users, there will be few if any add ons that they don't already have for the current machine they are using. Access to a network is all that many pros really need. If not the machine has plenty of TB ports to support bulk storage or other needs.
Interesting because I see just the opposite, this machine will sell like hotcakes. Honestly though tell us about all that legacy equipment they will be pissed about. Would it really make sense to hook a computer like this up to a 15 year old disk array?
You are getting two high performance GPUs as it is. Has the message here already been lost on people. This will be very much a high performance compute node that is expected to offer up 7 TeraFlops of performance off the GPUs. That is extremely impressive in a machine this small. Further it will be easy for Apple to further increase performance with future generations of high performance GPUs.

 

I'm not knocking the GPGPUs installed. I like them. I don't expect most folks want to pay for $3k worth of CAD/CAM intensive GPGPUs when the AMD 8000s coming out would have done just as well. I would have preferred an expansion for a daughter card configuration that I can plug n' play GPGPUs as add-ons or swap them out when not using this for Engineering Applications.

 

How this base system is < $6k is anyone's guess.

post #160 of 308

The new Mac Pro design seems to take full advantage of the chimney effect. It should move a fair amount of air all by itself, before the fan gets involved. (and I love that Apple even designed the fan here)  One downside is that if someone was going to try and rack mount this, they would have to do it vertically, or otherwise augment the cooling.

 

I get that some video professionals are disappointed at the inability to swap video cards, but as an audio guy, this seems fairly close to perfect for me. I will have to add some sort of PCIe chassis, but I was already mostly using external drives, so that won't change. Thunderbolt seems fine for external drives, hell, USB3 is pretty much good enough for recording.

 

The reliance on Thunderbolt for expansion on the new MacPro reminds me of when Apple went USB only on the original iMacs. It jump-started the USB peripheral market. I hope this has the same effect on the Thunderbolt peripheral market.

 

 

So… the bottom line is cost. Everybody seems to be saying that it is going to be expensive. I think that this thing could be cheaper than the existing Mac Pro. If it comes in under $2000, which I think is a remote possibility, the pain of having to add a PCIe chassis won't be so bad.  At any rate, I think I want one.

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