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Apple offers sneak peek at new cylindrical Mac Pro assembled in the USA - Page 2

post #41 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

If only they scaled it up 3:2 and allowed one to plug-n-play different GPGPU daughter cards. I'd love to purchase a separate daughter card that had non-FirePro GPGPU dual Processors on it to swap in and out for different needs. Or a separate daughter card to add 2 additional GPGPUs and let the OS manage their computing via OS X and activate them for OpenCL/OpenGL on the fly. That would have allowed a new definition of plug-n-play and expansion.

All storage expansion via Thunderbolt 2 for any serious performance is nauseating.

Cost just went through the roof.

It's possible that it could help push less expensive options.

It would have been nice to have an nVidia option, you need nVidia for certain tasks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davida View Post

All external storage on Macs is less reliable, because MacOS doesn't support SMART reporting except for motherboard SATA connections and SATA on PCIe cards.

Is it possible to do SMART over any external device save for maybe eSATA?

Given that Thunderbolt is PCIe, I think it could support SMART because it would be a SATA chip on PCIe.

That said, the number of times SMART saved my bacon on any computer was zero.
post #42 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

No slots?
No optical drive?
No support for RAID (hard drives)?
More of a Mac maxi rather than a Mac Pro.

Granted, SSDs are amazing fast. But if you need bulk storage (and you want it inside the box), this will be disappointing.

I can understand lack of optical drive on "non-Pro" machines, but for those who produce video having to attach an external drive is just a bit of fugliness that is not needed here. Given that people who typically use Mac Pros tend to work with large data files (and may need to mail them to clients in some form other than electronic), the lack of a built-in optical drive should raise some eyebrows.

No slots? Gee, one thing that has kept Mac Pro units working as long as they have in the past has been the ability to swap in new graphic cards. TB2 may help a little, but it's not quite the same as a 16x PCIe slot. Further, there are other devices people might want to add to a new Mac Pro (or, more likely, pull out of an existing Mac Pro and stick in the new one) that the lack of slots will be problematic.

Cylindrical? Crap! A device that could have been easily rack-mounted would have been much more practical. Even if that wasn't in the cards, cylindrical is going to create space problems on desktops and other rectangular areas where Mac Pros currently set. Someone in Apple's industrial design department should have made this a little more "industrial". Granted, the Mac Pro user is *far* from Apple's demographic (which seems to like "thin is in") but you think they would have done a better job of designing something for the Pro users. Heck, I'd much rather they stuck with the old case. Pro users don't need something that would look good in a museum -- they need something practical. Cylindrical fails that. If this is an example of "can't innovate my ass", I'd prefer less innovation, thank you.

OTOH, the performance does look pretty damn good. Mac Pro users will be forced to upgrade on that point alone.
 

 

Does it not support RAID externally?

 

How does it create space problems? It's a fraction of the size and easily fits within the existing footprint.

post #43 of 308

I can't think of a reason why a cylinder would even be an advantageous shape.  

post #44 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

THOSE SPECS.

That case...
Uhm...
Yes... That case.


I will say, they pretty much kicked everyone's ideas of what the new one will look like right out the door. A single central cooling unit inside a cylinder is actually quite brilliant.

But eww, that case.

What is wrong with the case?
post #45 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

The machine is a great machine for a specific market segment and is highly expensive.

 

Just saying...

Yes, Game Development, Engineering Design, Modeling, Numerical Analysis, Compositing, Multimedia Production, Biosciences, Physics, etc.,

 

It has a broad market of professional uses if it isn't just fixed with Workstation CAD/CAM only GPGPUs. More to the point, by the time this machine comes out, AMD 9000 cards will be out. And by the end of 2014 AMD is moving to Excavator with AMD 9000/10000 GPGPUs via SoC. Meanwhile, this Mac Pro is fixed on its GPGPU capabilities and upgrades.

 

It's truly a static, fixed market device that does not integrate with pre-existing equipment unless these Pros spend a lot on third party connectivity to interoperate with this new product.

 

I don't expect this design to last for the next ten years. It'll be modified and the size will expand over time.

post #46 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarenDino View Post

It's a BUTT PLUG !!!!

Your comment says more about you than the product.
post #47 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

I can't think of a reason why a cylinder would even be an advantageous shape.  

 

It's not. The heat dissipation options are at the top and one isn't going to expect much convective heat transfer across the system as the design looks like its a fuel cell.

post #48 of 308
The case is fine. Especially it's small size. Since all of the storage is going to be external It'll be out of the way. How many times do you really need to touch your physical Mac. I can go weeks. There's no CD's to add in. Do I really need to touch the power button or do I just set up a scheduled start-stop. I just want to hear about the 4K displays. I just hope these machines don;t cost an arm and a Leg. And it's nice that they're made in the USA.
Make it idiotproof and they'll just make a
better idiot.
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Make it idiotproof and they'll just make a
better idiot.
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post #49 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

I can't think of a reason why a cylinder would even be an advantageous shape.  
I am thinking maybe it helps with airflow?
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #50 of 308
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post
…upgrade the graphics cards…

 

HA HA HA HA HA GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY HE ACTUALLY WANTS TO UPGRADE HIS GRAPHICS HA HA HA HA HA

 

Seriously, I'm really upset. Now I have to waste $600 on a GTX 680, and it will be the last GPU I can ever get for my model. irked.gif


Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post
No word as to when except later this year?

 

Fall, so before December 21.


Originally Posted by Root Beer View Post
I hope this comes with a hose and attachments.

 

Dyson may be suing soon for design infringement...

 

Just leave, please.


Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

Did they put the ports so close to each other that you can't use two adjacent ones?

 

The ports look further apart than any ports on any other Mac. And since all the plugs for every single one of these type of ports is so small, you're manufacturing an "issue" where there has never been one for any Mac.


Originally Posted by Mike Fix View Post
Apple once again proving they hate professionals.

 

You, once again proving that Apple has done something completely correct.

post #51 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

The specs of the machine are brilliant. FirePro graphics card are nothing to sneer at on any level.

 

Doesn't matter when there are known driver issues with the FirePro and some pro apps that AMD is aware of and haven't fixed (ArcGIS,  Autodesk, even some issues in CS) but work perfectly fine on the Quadro.  And anyone that does CUDA is also now screwed.

post #52 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Disappointed. Scaled down for all the wrong reasons.

How can you call it scaled down when it is offering well over twice the performance? I really don't understand the big box mentality this machine will significantly out perform the old one and probably in some ways more well more than 2 times. How is that anything less than professional?

Final judgement will have to wait for the actual shipping model but this machine just look very impressive as seen from this over view.
post #53 of 308
Quote of the presentation:

"Can't innovate anymore, MY ASS!!!"
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
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If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
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post #54 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

I can't think of a reason why a cylinder would even be an advantageous shape.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

It's not. The heat dissipation options are at the top and one isn't going to expect much convective heat transfer across the system as the design looks like its a fuel cell.

 

Seems to me that a cylinder, with air intake at the bottom and venting at the top, would have better convection cooling potential with fewer fans. Kinda like one of those charcoal chimneys when you're getting ready to barbeque.

 

It's a Mac Pro and hibachi in one!

post #55 of 308

Yeah but that's gonna get stuck under the desk to make room for those multiple 4K monitors anyway.... that's why they added the lights to the ports, it's dark under there.

 

:)

post #56 of 308
I think we're going to see upgraded graphics cards done externally through Thunderbolt 2 which is why they decided to debut it here. Just my theory.
Apple has historically been trying to keep people from tinkering inside its machines, so by releasing basically a badass Mac Mini with a way to add on externally what you previously would have internally... well that's about par for the course.
You can't tinker with the insides, but you can add on more powerful attachments so it's flexible. Fine by me as long as I'm right on this. I have a videocard that would never fit into that little case.
post #57 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

The specs of the machine are brilliant. FirePro graphics card are nothing to sneer at on any level.
But that case is definitely something to raise an eyebrow at. How the hell are you supposed to upgrade the graphics cards in future?

You most likely can't. Upgradeable GPUs will quickly become a thing of the past anyways, I wouldn't get too worked up over it.
post #58 of 308
With flash HD memory they were able to scale it down tremendously, as well as to not include an optical drive...So I imagine they wanted to really amp up the IO and processing specs hence the smaller form factor. You can just plug in external devices and get fast IO...As far as upgrading it...that will be interesting to see.
post #59 of 308

Look at the new info on Apple's site. It answers a lot of your questions.

post #60 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronHeadSlim View Post

Isn't it Six Thunderbolt 2 ports?

(The Keynote stream had 6 Firewire 2 ports)

I suspect he mis spoke on that one. This is why it is common to have a bit of a delay in the posting of videos to the net, it gives companies a chance to edit for mistakes.
post #61 of 308

Kind of looks like a Warp Core to me! But seriously, it will be nice to see a teardown and evaluation of this cool looking (my opinion) machine.

post #62 of 308

It's not a cylinder, it's a Tube.

 

Mac Tube, the successor to the Mac Cube.
 

post #63 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

 

Maybe you're stuck in the past, hmm?

 

People are never happy.


Maybe he has thousands of dollars invested in specialized equipment that won't work with this device.

 

Thunderbolt adoption has been painfully slow already.  TB2 will be even worse.    Hopefully the haswell iMacs will have TB2 in order to expand it's possible target audience somewhat.

post #64 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer

Disappointed. Scaled down for all the wrong reasons.

I agree. It should have been scaled down into a laptop form factor. I would accept a _very_ short battery life for the trade off of desktop performance. My laptop goes from home to work and back and is rarely off power. This form factor would fill in the void left by Apple dropping the 17" MBP.
post #65 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


How can you call it scaled down when it is offering well over twice the performance? I really don't understand the big box mentality this machine will significantly out perform the old one and probably in some ways more well more than 2 times. How is that anything less than professional?

Final judgement will have to wait for the actual shipping model but this machine just look very impressive as seen from this over view.

You must be joking. They called it scaled down becasue it is. You think they magically designed a system that has all of the features of the current machine in a box a quarter the size? Where are the PCI slots? Where are the bays to install tons of storage inside the box? This box is more of a scaled up Mac Mini than a scaled down Mac pro.... it ignores all of the reasons that people wanted a Mac Pro in the first place. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


You most likely can't. Upgradeable GPUs will quickly become a thing of the past anyways, I wouldn't get too worked up over it.

Based on what? Just because Apple decrees something doesn't make it right or the industry standard. 

post #66 of 308

The Thunderbolt could be 6 Firewire ports with adapters.

 

I am just laughing at how people thought Apple would kill the Mac Pro line...

 

Like Apple programmers and the people that work at Apple don't want the fastest thing money can buy!  So they made it, and are going to sell it to us, to those that can afford it.

 

I think apple is making a serious move with OpenCL and AMD/ATI.  Apple is serious about utilizing resources and power in their systems at all times.  I.E. putting the GPU to work at all times.  I think they want all developers to move forward and create apps to always expect GPU and CPU sharing the load as equals, almost, but having specialized functions when the time arrises.

 

I am excited cause there's a future, not a bleak iOS everything world, and the thing that is great is that the "Mac" lives on...

 

Laters...

Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
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Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
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post #67 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


It's possible that it could help push less expensive options.

It would have been nice to have an nVidia option, you need nVidia for certain tasks.
Is it possible to do SMART over any external device save for maybe eSATA?

Given that Thunderbolt is PCIe, I think it could support SMART because it would be a SATA chip on PCIe.

That said, the number of times SMART saved my bacon on any computer was zero.

 

How? Any product expansion is across Thunderbolt. We already know the cost inflation on Tbolt 1. When Tbolt 2 arrives costs will increase, not decrease from third party vendors, whose present expansion options are sparse presently.

 

Thunderbolt is PCI-E 2.0 x4. Thunderbolt 2 is supposed to include PCI-E 3.0 support, yet no specifics from Intel.

 

New Macbook Air with Haswell is just Thunderbolt 1.0 today.

 

I don't see a single benefit from this design other than Jony Ive's obsession with getting thin and small.

 

As has been said, this isn't a desk top piece of art. It's a Workstation. We aren't entering the world of Star Trek, no matter how much Apple thinks the world wants everything they sell to be All-in-One and a lot of add-ons.

 

I just don't see this selling at any level Pro users want. They will be pissed about all the extraneous money needed to connect legacy equipment.

 

Performance over PCI-E 2.0 x4 eliminated expanded GPGPU support. I don't need Nvidia for any task.

post #68 of 308

Making it round saves on materials. When you have a square you have all of that wasted space near the corners.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

It's not. The heat dissipation options are at the top and one isn't going to expect much convective heat transfer across the system as the design looks like its a fuel cell.

post #69 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezwits View Post

The Thunderbolt could be 6 Firewire ports with adapters.

 

I am just laughing at how people thought Apple would kill the Mac Pro line...

 

Like Apple programmers and the people that work at Apple don't want the fastest thing money can buy!  So they made it, and are going to sell it to us, to those that can afford it.

 

I think apple is making a serious move with OpenCL and AMD/ATI.  Apple is serious about utilizing resources and power in their systems at all times.  I.E. putting the GPU to work at all times.  I think they want all developers to move forward and create apps to always expect GPU and CPU sharing the load as equals, almost, but having specialized functions when the time arrises.

 

I am excited cause there's a future, not a bleak iOS everything world, and the thing that is great is that the "Mac" lives on...

 

Laters...

 

The best news was going with AMD. The worst news was only a specific subset of GPGPUs available from AMD.

post #70 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Maybe it'll be like when you see pictures of cars. The Kia Pro_Cee'd looks cheap and boring in pictures but looks amazing and very upmarket in person. Hopefully the MacPro will be like the Kia; it looks odd in pictures but amazing in person.

On a side note, the graphics of the thing make it look a bit like a retro super computer.

Very Cray like. It makes one suspect that there is some sort of intentional linkage. However when it comes ot engineering I suspect Apple is dealing with some of the same issues Cray had to deal with. That is cooling or thermal issues and electrical distances. The circular design ought to allow for very good cooling. As for the more compact design that is inevitable due to the nature of high speed electronics.

In a nutshell the design is forward looking. No matter what chips it ships with in the fall, two to three years down the road the electronics will be even more tightly packed together. I suspect that they have a platform that will be good for a ten year run.
post #71 of 308
What problem did Apple solve by making the Mac Pro portable? It's not like it's easy carrying around a 27" Apple Display.
post #72 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

 

Huge internal storage is not the future. 

 

Also, external Thunderbolt RAID storage is more reliable and just as fast. 

 

Huge storage is the future because huge data is the future.  ALL my file sizes are getting bigger and 4 bays wasn't huge anyway and gave me options to add HDD or SSDs as needed.

 

And where can you put the external RAID?  Before it was just a Mac Pro.  Now it's a Mac Pro and an external array and an external burner that you can't even stack on top of the new Mac Pro completely neutering the portability advantage which for a pro tower wasn't all that important anyway.

 

Meh.  The no slots is the real killer but lack of internal bays isn't helpful either.

post #73 of 308
Originally Posted by rezwits View Post
The Thunderbolt could be 6 Firewire ports with adapters.

 

Huh? He just misspoke. They were ALL pretty nervous up there for some reason. Don't know why; they succeeded phenomenally.


I think apple is making a serious move with OpenCL and AMD/ATI. 

 

Meanwhile, OS X refuses to support modern OpenGL…


Originally Posted by frankstallone View Post
What problem did Apple solve by making the Mac Pro portable?

 

The last one was portable, too. I literally carry mine around from place to place when I have to work to move.

 

60 lbs. does great stuff to your upper body.

post #74 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 

The ports look further apart than any ports on any other Mac. And since all the plugs for every single one of these type of ports is so small, you're manufacturing an "issue" where there has never been one for any Mac.

 

The remark was in jest but from true experience, not anything manufactured as you say.  The USB port on every fairly recent MacBook Pro I use that are on the same side will not allow me to choose what devices, namely dongles and Thumb drives, I can use without resorting to a hub even when I don't need one.  It's not a manufactured issue.   My favorite thumb drive is standard thinness but has a sliding switch for the connector.  Can't add it in without pulling out the adjacent device.  I don't have this problem on any other laptop because other companies are not as insanely driven by making everything as small as possible.

post #75 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post


If only they scaled it up 3:2 and allowed one to plug-n-play different GPGPU daughter cards. I'd love to purchase a separate daughter card that had non-FirePro GPGPU dual Processors on it to swap in and out for different needs. Or a separate daughter card to add 2 additional GPGPUs and let the OS manage their computing via OS X and activate them for OpenCL/OpenGL on the fly. That would have allowed a new definition of plug-n-play and expansion.
Eventually GPU cards, as we know them today, will be a thing of the past. One can speculate about the exact architecture of this machine but frankly we don't even know how the GPU's are tied into the rest of the machine.
Quote:
All storage expansion via Thunderbolt 2 for any serious performance is nauseating.

Cost just went through the roof.

You still haven't shown that an external disk array will significantly add to costs. For one we don't know the retail price of this machine though I don't think it will be all that inviting. i do suspect though that the model alluded to in the reveal is likely to be a high performance configuration. Nothing about the intro says that an entry level machine with one GPU isn't possible.
post #76 of 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

60 lbs. does great stuff to your upper body.

 

Hahhaa, although I am known to bring my 24" Apple Display to work with me, I think that is even stretching it. The Mac Pro was huge because it wasn't being moved and had room for internal expansion (IMHO). I am with those here whose sentiment resonates with the fact that Apple shrunk this for all the wrong reasons.

post #77 of 308

My Apple TV blipped and at one point, there was Greg....the next, this black cylinder. I saw Schiller and knew it was probably the new Mac Pro. Really threw me off.

 

Looked pretty darn cool to me. Lots of acronyms. Has to be faster than anything out there.

 

No matter what Apple does, or how much faster the next iteration might be, there will always be complainers. They simply cannot move on from thinking they need to modify everything.

 

Technology is moving away from that. It's moving towards faster, smaller, cooler. And thank god for that. It will just take time for many people who resist change to adapt.

post #78 of 308

Why doesn’t anyone else see this?

 

It’s a Dalek.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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post #79 of 308

post #80 of 308
Looks terrific. Very brilliant idea - the spinning cylinder.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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