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Apple throws out the rulebook for its unique next-gen Mac Pro - Page 31

post #1201 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

I thought I was the only one who liked the 17".

Oh gosh I loved my 17" Macbook, I used it for Logic mostly. I was really disapointed when they discontinued it. Oh well, my Macbook Air connected to a NEC monitor is more then adequate now for my music and programming needs.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1202 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

Why a SSD, there are much larger mechanical drives. Do you really need the speed for backups or even data. It's not like you can't watch movies or even do high end video editing with a 7200 RPM drive. Heck get a 15K Hitachi drive, still cheaper then a 600GB SSD. I totaly understand using a SSD for your system, external not so much. Not when you can buy 4TB drives for so cheap.

 

What external 15K based boxes are out there?  I'm not going to repeat myself because of your lack of wanting to listen. I am thinking of just going with internal SSD and then an external box.

 

I'm looking at LaCie Thunderbolt SSD Little Big Disk with 1TB of SSD.  But I'm thinking of waiting until the next generation when they start using faster SSDs. That so far, is what I'm considering, but again, I'm just in the research mode.  I do lots of streaming of audio while I'm doing something else at the same time.

post #1203 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Yea, I'm not a professional by any means of the definition. I have played piano, 30 years (12 years with our local orchestra), Guitar 22 years, flute 18 years and I sing. I make music for children and the church we belong to, I don't need much to do that.

Like it or not that sound pretty professional. To put it bluntly amateurs don't play with the local orchestra for 12 years straight.

I will repeat my last comment you have many talents, gifts if you will.
post #1204 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

 

What external 15K based boxes are out there?  I'm not going to repeat myself because of your lack of wanting to listen. I am thinking of just going with internal SSD and then an external box.

 

I'm looking at LaCie Thunderbolt SSD Little Big Disk with 1TB of SSD.  But I'm thinking of waiting until the next generation when they start using faster SSDs. That so far, is what I'm considering, but again, I'm just in the research mode.  I do lots of streaming of audio while I'm doing something else at the same time.

I read and comprehend what your saying just fine, an external SSD is a waste for what you intend to do with it. You can purchase a 15K Hitachi drive and insert it into any number of external RAID cases. Almost every manufacturer sells their RAID systems without hard drives. It's up to you though, if you sleep better at night with a SSD drive then go for it and no they do not last longer then a magnetic mechanical drive.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1205 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Like it or not that sound pretty professional. To put it bluntly amateurs don't play with the local orchestra for 12 years straight.

I will repeat my last comment you have many talents, gifts if you will.

I just didn't want to brag, I also play in local festivals every year, which I enjoy more. I don't get payed most of the time, I do it because I really enjoy playing for people. That's all that really matters to me. I know lot's of professional musicians though and I know what equipment they use. That's why I posted what I did.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1206 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I've opened my MBP to add RAM and swap out the HDD.  It's a few screws.  The iMacs can be a pain with the glue.

I'm assuming you have a newer model. The new MBP are probably easier to repair than the iMacs. The purée 2008 MBPs where a nightmare. This is perhaps what is most frustrating about Apple hardware you can actually get to the guts, the things likely to need servicing, fast with their laptops than Apples desktops.
post #1207 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I just didn't want to brag,
I wouldn't want you too, however bringing joy to the world is worth commenting on.
Quote:
I also play in local festivals every year, which I enjoy more. I don't get payed most of the time, I do it because I really enjoy playing for people.
That is nice. I never really got the chance to even consider learning music or the playing of instruments growing up. It was my fathers opinion that if I had time for such I didn't have enough work to do. A few years ago I bought a cheap guitar to "play" with but teaching an old dog new tricks is tough row to hoe.
Quote:
That's all that really matters to me. I know lot's of professional musicians though and I know what equipment they use. That's why I posted what I did.

Speaking of posting do you have any YouTube videos up of your band or other performances. For the music of course, this isn't an attempt to get a visual of Relic! 😜😜😜😜😜😜
post #1208 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Like it or not that sound pretty professional. To put it bluntly amateurs don't play with the local orchestra for 12 years straight.

I will repeat my last comment you have many talents, gifts if you will.

It depends on the orchestra.   I've heard plenty of amateur orchestras that weren't that good, so don't let the term "orchestra" mislead you. I can't comment on the one she plays with or comment on her playing.   

post #1209 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

I thought I was the only one who liked the 17".

 


Where have they been shown as more reliable? They don't suffer from mechanical wear, yet there are other possible causes of drive death.

Well, I have two HDDs that are both less than 2 years old and one works and one doesn't.  Both were purchased new and both are external.  So, I honestly don't know what else to tell you other than that.

post #1210 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

It depends on the orchestra.   I've heard plenty of amateur orchestras that weren't that good, so don't let the term "orchestra" mislead you. I can't comment on the one she plays with or comment on her playing.   

Guess which one I am, strings, blonde. Start is at 1:40, just fast forward, the rest isn't very interesting. Okay, you can clearly see me at 1:47, the violin is clearly not my choice of instrument though, so please forgive the mistakes for those with good ears.I have only been playing for less then 7 years. I didn't mention it before because I'm still in the beginning with it, please be kind.


Edited by Relic - 11/15/13 at 7:01pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1211 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
 

Well, I have two HDDs that are both less than 2 years old and one works and one doesn't.  Both were purchased new and both are external.  So, I honestly don't know what else to tell you other than that.

 

You mention that they're external. External drives are often squeezed for margins, and the cause of death is often something other than the drive itself. It's not that I've never ended up with a dead hard drive, but when it comes to externals, I see a lot of dead firewire bridges and broken power bricks. In some cases if it's a single drive without a specialized controller, you can mount the bare drive. Some people are bad about backups, and in those cases it has worked. It won't work with certain things like Lacie big disks or some of Western Digital's similar solutions. An ssd could suffer the same fate in that case. Problems with ssd death are often things like poor garbage collection or controllers. The sandforce failures are probably the most well known.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

Oh gosh I loved my 17" Macbook, I used it for Logic mostly. I was really disapointed when they discontinued it. Oh well, my Macbook Air connected to a NEC monitor is more then adequate now for my music and programming needs.


I use mine for the same stuff at times. It gets pretty hot to the touch, which irritates me. I also don't care for notebook keyboards. Old display was an NEC. I'm using one of these at the moment. They're great, but I think the older ones that used Hitachi panels were better. I do a lot of drawing, and a big uniform display helps with that. I'm surprised you know that many instruments. That is pretty awesome. I played piano for a number of years as a kid, and made it through some of the more complex pieces. I can still mentally parse piano music when listening to it, but I haven't played in years. If I can find a decent used baby grand I'll pick it up again. Even right now I have pandora set to play a mix of modern piano and violin. Pandora is silly though. It randomly goes from that into glitch mob songs for some reason. It's fun to imagine how some of the pieces were written by paying attention to the different melodies and the placement of sharps.

post #1212 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

 

Guess which one I am, strings, blonde. Start is at 1:40, just fast forward, the rest isn't very interesting. Okay, you can clearly see me at 1:47, the violin is clearly not my choice of instrument though, so please forgive the mistakes for those with good ears.I have only been playing for less then 7 years. I didn't mention it before because I'm still in the beginning with it, please be kind.

How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.

post #1213 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

How does anyone pick out mistakes with youtube compression? I'm listening to this with decent headphones, and it still seems to kill a lot of the subtlety of the piece. I probably wouldn't catch them anyway. I would with piano though.

I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1214 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.


I hope you make it through treatment.

post #1215 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

Okay, you can clearly see me at 1:47, the violin is clearly not my choice of instrument though

Y'know, you only have to sit with your legs that far apart when you play the cello. 1wink.gif Salman Rushdie looked like he was having a great time conducting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic 
if you sleep better at night with a SSD drive then go for it and no they do not last longer then a magnetic mechanical drive.

Some data centers even with SLC have reported failure rates only slightly better than would be seen with HDDs:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923-6.html

The failures weren't due to the type of NAND either, which may explain why SSD manufacturers are shifting to cheaper NAND. If the main causes of failure are elsewhere, it doesn't matter. Still, I can't wait until NAND reaches today's HDD prices because there's no spin up/down, no mechanical noise, they are much faster and no chance of a single hard drop breaking the drive or leaving a drive in a cupboard for a while locking it up.

It'll be interesting to see how long the SSDs in the Mac Pros last.
post #1216 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Y'know, you only have to sit with your legs that far apart when you play the cello. 1wink.gif Salman Rushdie looked like he was having a great time conducting.

What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet.. 

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1217 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

What can I say, Mozart makes a girl hot. Leave it to a guy to see that, you know what it was, I was wearing the most uncomfortable pair of stockings that night, I actually kept trying to itch my butt by rubbing it back and forth on my chair. When the concert was over I immediately took them off and went commando for the rest of the evening. I remember this like it was yesterday because when we went out for dinner and I got out of the car I had a Britney Spears moment and flashed the valet.. 

 

Blah... I want to hear you play a violin adaptation of Rondeau, just for the silly masterpiece theater reference.

post #1218 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

I don't know, all I can think about is how much I miss hair and it's 4:13am here.

 

Relic, best wished for a speedy and complete recovery.

 

When my wife's hair grew back after cemo it was much darker, thicker and all the white hairs were gone.

 

I have no musical talent or ability and am always envious of those that do.

 

The other day of the Crucial website I noticed that their memory finder now lists the late 2013 Mac Pro. 8GB sticks are $115, 16GB $220.

post #1219 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 

 

Blah... I want to hear you play a violin adaptation of Rondeau, just for the silly masterpiece theater reference.

I tell you what, if I get out of here I will personally record you an entire album of Relic's greatest hits, with out the stockings.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1220 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldCodger73 View Post
 

 

Relic, best wished for a speedy and complete recovery.

 

When my wife's hair grew back after cemo it was much darker, thicker and all the white hairs were gone.

 

I have no musical talent or ability and am always envious of those that do.

 

The other day of the Crucial website I noticed that their memory finder now lists the late 2013 Mac Pro. 8GB sticks are $115, 16GB $220.

I'm really happy to hear that your wife recovered and thank you for the kinds words. It was my mother who forced me to take up piano when I was 6, thankfully I enjoyed it enough to continue and learn other instruments on the way. You should hear my rendition of, "Some Where Over The Rainbow" on my Ukelele.  My daughter is learning the Cello at the moment and I really miss playing with her after dinner.

 

I have many silly hats that I like to where now, I have a Where's Waldo cap, a bear cap with ears,a floppy bunny ear cap, etc. come to think about it someone should wash these things in the near future for me. My hair is starting to come back a little but I still look like I'm in boot camp or a Sinead O'Connor groupy.

 


Edited by Relic - 11/16/13 at 5:41pm
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1221 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

I tell you what, if I get out of here I will personally record you an entire album of Relic's greatest hits, with out the stockings.


And if I ever learn to play the violin as well as you, I will get a tattoo of the robot devil from futurama with his solid gold fiddle.

 

post #1222 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post
 


And if I ever learn to play the violin as well as you, I will get a tattoo of the robot devil from futurama with his solid gold fiddle.

 

Haaaa, funny story, I actually play along to that episode, my kids love it. Here is the sheet music for those who are also interested in playing along.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #1223 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post
 

Haaaa, funny story, I actually play along to that episode, my kids love it.


Do you also perform backup vocals?

 

Edit: Damn it. I downloaded that sheet music. Now I want to learn to play the violin.


Edited by hmm - 11/16/13 at 9:20pm
post #1224 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Some data centers even with SLC have reported failure rates only slightly better than would be seen with HDDs:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923-6.html

 

That data comes largely from enterprise users.  For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability.  Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.

 

A recent article states:

 

""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."

 

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242367/SSDs_i_do_i_die_as_Linus_Torvalds_just_discovered?taxonomyId=234&pageNumber=2

 

I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon.  The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.

post #1225 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

That data comes largely from enterprise users.  For laptop use I'd think that the shock resistance of SSDs vs HDDs results in higher reliability.  Same for external USB/TB drives subject to more abuse than ones that live in a server.

 

A recent article states:

 

""From the data I've seen, client SSD annual failure rates under warranty tend to be around 1.5%, while HDDs are near 5%," Chien said."

 

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242367/SSDs_i_do_i_die_as_Linus_Torvalds_just_discovered?taxonomyId=234&pageNumber=2

 

I don't see a huge price advantage in going 15K SAS. Looks like a 600GB Cheetah runs $230 on Amazon.  The Crucial M500 480GB runs $313. Its there but not huge.

But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.

 

I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.

 

Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.

post #1226 of 1290

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
 

But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.

 

I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.

 

Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.


Smart doesn't always give you much of a warning. They can still die abruptly. With SMART you can sometimes see an increase in remapped sectors and determine it's time to retire the drive. If SMART status actually fails, you may have little to no time. With hard drives I've seen it both ways, and in either case the process is roughly the same. You should have a backup for your data, and you will experience downtime.

post #1227 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post

But alarmingly, many of these SSDs failed without any early warning from SMART. This is something that we continue to hear from different data centers. As InterServer pointed out, hard drives tend to fail more gracefully. SSDs often die more abruptly, for any number of reasons that we've heard reported by actual end-users in the real world.
Some of the early drives had real technical problems not specifically related to the flash chips. Early adopter problems if you will. I'm not sure if it is due to Anobit or other vendors but Apple seems to be doing extremely well with its SSD implementations.
Quote:
I think that die more abruptly with little to no warring is bad for an HIGH END* workstation.
Abrupt stops are bad for just about anything. Ever seen a car after hitting a bridge abutment. Now you may say what does that have to do with this discussion, little other than there are numerous ways for a workstation to come to a fast stop.
Quote:
Apple price put it in high end but other high end systems are better suited in both choice and easy of working on / repleting parts for the high end tag.

As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.

In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.
post #1228 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Some of the early drives had real technical problems not specifically related to the flash chips. Early adopter problems if you will. I'm not sure if it is due to Anobit or other vendors but Apple seems to be doing extremely well with its SSD implementations.
Abrupt stops are bad for just about anything. Ever seen a car after hitting a bridge abutment. Now you may say what does that have to do with this discussion, little other than there are numerous ways for a workstation to come to a fast stop.
As technology marches forward it won't be practical to have a bunch of interchangeable parts in a computer. For example to get high data rates all new RAM technologies expect to have solder on mother board RAM chips to get maximum performance. So a year or two from now a high performance work station may come with its RAM soldered to the motherboard. Any expansion options would likely run much slower.

In summation looking to the past to determine what is right for the future is a mistake. Apple got a lot of things right in the Mac Pro, a machine that frankly has a future.

I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.

post #1229 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
 

I'm thinking more like ram cards or maybe even ram and cpu cards with soldered ram so you can have choice / range of parts with out needed to have all of the common parts on each choice.


CPUs already have their own form of memory. It only looks at ram on a cache miss. What parts do you expect to remain swappable under such circumstances? I think you're completely wrong on what they may have gotten wrong with this machine. A machine requires specific things, such as ability to access storage, output display data, and crunch numbers. If something is wrong with this one, it's that performance is unlikely to be in line with its asking price, especially at the high and low end of its range. Manufacturing a ram tray concept doesn't really solve any of the problems you put forth before. It's just a weird way to weave your own design philosophy as an extension of what you think Apple will build. That makes little sense, even if it is entirely possible that what they do produce will not align well with your needs.

post #1230 of 1290
I caught an interesting announcement someplace in the last day or two from Intel. The have the intention of integrating RAM into some of their many core processors. In this case they specifically mentioned XEON Phi but it is applicable to other XEONs. The RAM can be used as cache of or fast system RAM. This is sorta like the RAM in the Iris +.

The other interesting thing is that a Xeon Phi well be delivered that can act as a system processor. The interesting thing here is that a Mac Pro could end up having some 60 odd cores in the future. Intel has had a few interesting announcements at the Super Computing Conference this year. I'm still of the opinion that Apple knew exactly what it was doing when it shrunk the Pro down. I can see the Mac Pro becoming immensely more powerful by 2015.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


CPUs already have their own form of memory. It only looks at ram on a cache miss. What parts do you expect to remain swappable under such circumstances? I think you're completely wrong on what they may have gotten wrong with this machine. A machine requires specific things, such as ability to access storage, output display data, and crunch numbers. If something is wrong with this one, it's that performance is unlikely to be in line with its asking price, especially at the high and low end of its range. Manufacturing a ram tray concept doesn't really solve any of the problems you put forth before. It's just a weird way to weave your own design philosophy as an extension of what you think Apple will build. That makes little sense, even if it is entirely possible that what they do produce will not align well with your needs.
post #1231 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

 I can see the Mac Pro becoming immensely more powerful by 2015.

Are you suggesting they might go from 2x GPUs to 1 GPU + Xeon Phi? I'm a little picky, because at this point I'm primarily tied to OSX for an XCode machine. In the past that wasn't the case.

post #1232 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Are you suggesting they might go from 2x GPUs to 1 GPU + Xeon Phi? I'm a little picky, because at this point I'm primarily tied to OSX for an XCode machine. In the past that wasn't the case.

Well you know Apple, it is hard to say what they will do. I'm imagining a Mac Pro with two GPUs as today with the new XEON Phi replacing the current XEON. GPUs still have significant advantages over anything Intel has to offer so I don't see the two GPUs going away. The interesting thing here is Intel making variants of Phi that can operate as system processors. Instead of struggling to go from 8-12 cores in a Pro, Apple could easily jump to 32, 64 or any number they can come to an agreement with Intel to build.

As far as XCode goes imagine a machine with 32 or 64 cores compiling your apps.

Of course these aren't run of the mill i86 cores. But the interesting thing here is if they can do this for Phi and do it for Haswell Iris they most certainly can do it for run of the mill XEON. In other words I think thing look bright for the Mac Pro.
post #1233 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I tell you what, if I get out of here I will personally record you an entire album of Relic's greatest hits, with out the stockings.

I can see FKK beaches in Relics future! After all we don't want to be seeing nasty tan lines.
post #1234 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Well you know Apple, it is hard to say what they will do. I'm imagining a Mac Pro with two GPUs as today with the new XEON Phi replacing the current XEON. GPUs still have significant advantages over anything Intel has to offer so I don't see the two GPUs going away. The interesting thing here is Intel making variants of Phi that can operate as system processors. Instead of struggling to go from 8-12 cores in a Pro, Apple could easily jump to 32, 64 or any number they can come to an agreement with Intel to build.

As far as XCode goes imagine a machine with 32 or 64 cores compiling your apps.

Of course these aren't run of the mill i86 cores. But the interesting thing here is if they can do this for Phi and do it for Haswell Iris they most certainly can do it for run of the mill XEON. In other words I think thing look bright for the Mac Pro.

Yeah I have no idea about that. I haven't seen intel bring out anything Phi-wise that costs less than a few thousand. I will mention that chipsets will change again with Haswell E whenever that comes out, so there's nothing past this point until probably some point in 2015. Ivy Bridge E is just rolling out at the moment across oems.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


I can see FKK beaches in Relics future! After all we don't want to be seeing nasty tan lines.


I request a rendition of Rondeau within that playlist, just for the cheesy masterpiece theatre reference. Anything by Einaudi would also be cool.

post #1235 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Yeah I have no idea about that. I haven't seen intel bring out anything Phi-wise that costs less than a few thousand. I will mention that chipsets will change again with Haswell E whenever that comes out, so there's nothing past this point until probably some point in 2015. Ivy Bridge E is just rolling out at the moment across oems.
I suspect if Intel is to have success with Phi they will need a way to mass market it. Cost wise it isn't significantly worst than Xeon now. I think the key here is that this is an indication of the direction of technology. If they integrate RAM into the Haswell Iris packages and the Phi, it is possible for other chips focusing on performance. The trickle down theory of computer systems if you will. I
Quote:


I request a rendition of Rondeau within that playlist, just for the cheesy masterpiece theatre reference. Anything by Einaudi would also be cool.

Music has never been a big part of my life, but I will listen to anything Relic wishes to play if it means getting well.
post #1236 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


I suspect if Intel is to have success with Phi they will need a way to mass market it. Cost wise it isn't significantly worst than Xeon now. I think the key here is that this is an indication of the direction of technology. If they integrate RAM into the Haswell Iris packages and the Phi, it is possible for other chips focusing on performance. The trickle down theory of computer systems if you will.

Well it may not be much worse compared to the higher core chips, but it definitely covers different price territory unless I have missed recent developments. The Xeons that Apple has used over the past 4 years start at $300. I am curious how that thing will look in the wild, as right now the price barrier seems awfully high relative to what is included. I expected to see either a lower price than what it ended up as or the cost cutting measures (chopped down framebuffers, quad cpu) , not necessarily both.

 

Quote:

 

Music has never been a big part of my life, but I will listen to anything Relic wishes to play if it means getting well.

 

Bleh I like music, but I can't deal with anything lyrical while working. It's too much of a distraction.

post #1237 of 1290
Near Future Apple Technology

Micron has been releasing more and more info on their "Hybrid Memory Cube" technology. Some info can be found here: http://www.micron.com/products/topics/supercomputing?source=MB and here: http://www.hybridmemorycube.org. Interestingly the spec has been finalized, so this is more than vapor ware now

Initial devices will be shipping in 2 & 4 GB offerings, not bad really. Now I haven't seen any indication that Intel or Apple are on board, but it would be hard to imagine they aren't. The thing here is what such technology could do for the likes of the Mac Pro as we dramatically increase storage density while lowering power. I could see Apple implementing this tech in a Mac Pro in a couple of years.

However it becomes even more interesting if you see this as almost the perfect technology to take iPads pass the 1GB barrier. I'm not about to discount the chips initial expense but think about what these memory cubes would allow Apple to do in an iPad. First you have a massive reduction in size. Second an estimated 70% reduction in power used per bit. Third amazing bandwidth.

On an iPad this would all work together to give us another stepped increase in performance. Apple could easily give us a 4X increase in available RAM, which Apps really need, while giving the GPU the bandwidth it needs. Bandwidth would be especially important on a larger iPad with considerably more pixels. It is the advantage to the GPU that I see as the big win here, in every APU design on the market the manufacture run up against the bandwidth problem trying to squeeze more performance out of the GPU.

Intel has gotten good results with Iris Plus using a multi chip module where the extra silicon is high speed memory. That isn't bad at all, however Memory Cube technology would offer that bandwidth to the entire memory array better support the GPU for traditional graphics and more importantly heterogenous computing.

Now some might argue that this tech would be better used in a laptop. That is possible but but the question really comes down to where do you need the extra RAM the most. I'd say iPads myself. It just seems like the perfect fit. It would likely be 2015 though before ramp up is secure enough for Apples demands.

In any event food for thought when it comes to the Mac Pro (needed to wake up the thread). I know I slipped off the path with the iPad stuff but that seems like a match made in heaven. On a Mac Pro this tech would allow for huge wads of memory soldered right onto the motherboard. In this respect Intel would have to be onboard implementing the interface into the CPU chips. I can't see Intel not being onboard though as I really don't know of a better short term solution.
post #1238 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Near Future Apple Technology

Micron has been releasing more and more info on their "Hybrid Memory Cube" technology. Some info can be found here: http://www.micron.com/products/topics/supercomputing?source=MB and here: http://www.hybridmemorycube.org. Interestingly the spec has been finalized, so this is more than vapor ware now

Initial devices will be shipping in 2 & 4 GB offerings, not bad really. Now I haven't seen any indication that Intel or Apple are on board, but it would be hard to imagine they aren't. The thing here is what such technology could do for the likes of the Mac Pro as we dramatically increase storage density while lowering power. I could see Apple implementing this tech in a Mac Pro in a couple of years.

However it becomes even more interesting if you see this as almost the perfect technology to take iPads pass the 1GB barrier. I'm not about to discount the chips initial expense but think about what these memory cubes would allow Apple to do in an iPad. First you have a massive reduction in size. Second an estimated 70% reduction in power used per bit. Third amazing bandwidth.

On an iPad this would all work together to give us another stepped increase in performance. Apple could easily give us a 4X increase in available RAM, which Apps really need, while giving the GPU the bandwidth it needs. Bandwidth would be especially important on a larger iPad with considerably more pixels. It is the advantage to the GPU that I see as the big win here, in every APU design on the market the manufacture run up against the bandwidth problem trying to squeeze more performance out of the GPU.

Intel has gotten good results with Iris Plus using a multi chip module where the extra silicon is high speed memory. That isn't bad at all, however Memory Cube technology would offer that bandwidth to the entire memory array better support the GPU for traditional graphics and more importantly heterogenous computing.

Now some might argue that this tech would be better used in a laptop. That is possible but but the question really comes down to where do you need the extra RAM the most. I'd say iPads myself. It just seems like the perfect fit. It would likely be 2015 though before ramp up is secure enough for Apples demands.

In any event food for thought when it comes to the Mac Pro (needed to wake up the thread). I know I slipped off the path with the iPad stuff but that seems like a match made in heaven. On a Mac Pro this tech would allow for huge wads of memory soldered right onto the motherboard. In this respect Intel would have to be onboard implementing the interface into the CPU chips. I can't see Intel not being onboard though as I really don't know of a better short term solution.

This is for super computers, not desktops, laptops or tablets.  Good try, but you obviously missed the target market for this. If it was designed for desktop/laptop/tablets, then they would have mentioned it.

post #1239 of 1290
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
This is for super computers, not desktops, laptops or tablets.  Good try, but you obviously missed the target market for this. If it was designed for desktop/laptop/tablets, then they would have mentioned it.

 

When has Apple ever cared what the industry says a part is for?

Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
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Originally Posted by asdasd

This is Appleinsider. It's all there for you but we can't do it for you.
Reply
post #1240 of 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

When has Apple ever cared what the industry says a part is for

 

TS, really?

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